http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-us-govt-failure-disclose-foreign-accounts-worse-child-porn
Failure to disclose foriegn accounts is worse than child porn for USA
By lostand confused Follow Tue, 28 Aug 2012, 7:33pm 1,897 views 24 comments
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Good thing Mitt has PriceWaterHouse to take care of all his disclosure issues.
Like so many companies, partnerships, and individuals, they hire good accounting/firms that are on top of such ever changing reporting and disclosure rules.
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You do realize the US is the only country in the first world to have such stupid rules?
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well lets see.. if i buy the UK Soccer team Manchester United ( a Cayman Island Company) ..traded on the NYSE then I too will own a foreign bank account
and that makes you evil... not to worry! you do get taxed and the IRS will get their share.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1549107/000104746912007740/a2210523zf-1a.htm
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I am not sure I get what you are trying to say?
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lostand confused says
yes, lost and confused.!
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Typical obfuscation.
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Lost and confused. I normally agree with simon black, but this post was bullshit. Jacques Wajsfelner had 4 million in the bank. He may be 83 but he was forming and shifting around between overseas corporations, never paid taxes on it at any time, and was clearly guilty of major tax evasion. Here is the complaint from the southern district court of it makes interesting reading. https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:n37uAZpl4B4J:www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/August12/massachusettsmanpleads/Wajsfelner,%2520Jacques%2520information%2520FINAL%2520signed.pdf+Jacques+Wajsfelner&hl=en&gl=nz&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShQD_hBtlwosGLFn9BuoqBhtKA7Cs9IQGrElgwrz3wmlg1ORvilcz0M1Y3DuX19vFMXQfd9J15f8DIeGbEXIn-8N0qh0FOCRwQNOoN9aGRZtEMZxFaeMDKXdqMtPFHCINVIek_p&sig=AHIEtbSZ2ks6qVFxZP4IXXLswNEzFb_yUQ
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Per the link you provided, he is only being charged with failure to file FBAR, not tax evasion.
You make the leap and pronounce him guilty, without any facts-even the government won't charge him with that. if he was shifting money around between overseas corporations, then Mittens should be in jail for centuries-for he shifts around 100s of millions.
The USA is the only country in the first world to do this stupid nonsense and tax foriegn income and even charge an exit tax, if you want to give up your citizenship. This is bizarre and silly. Especially when corpoartions are not taxed on forign income-only when they bring it back. Aren't corporatiosn people now-why separate rules??
Anyways below is the complaint from your link.
Statutory Allegations
24.
On or before the filing due dates listed below,
in the Southern District of New York and elsewhere, JACQUES
WAJSFELNER, the defendant, did knowingly and willfully fail to
file with the Commissioner of the IRS an FBAR disclosing that he
had a financial interest in, and signature and other authority
over, a bank, securities, and other financial account in a
foreign country, to wit, at least one foreign bank, securities,
and other financial account at the International Bank or
Wegelin, which had an aggregate value of more than $10,000
during each of the years listed below:
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lostand confused says
Of course US corporations are taxed on foreign income... and also taxed by foreign governments on that same dollar for dollar foreign incomes. Tax it twice ?
And as such the US Government taxes foreign companies on their US Entities who generated net income.. US_BMW, US_Sony, etc etc.
Of course foreign companies operating in the US need to have US bank accounts to pay their US workers and vendors...
but you dont hear foreign citizens complaining about billions or trillions of cash sitting in US Banks ? Nope only Lefties in the USA.. but its all political anyway!
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thomaswong.1986 says
Wrong, wrong, wrong. US corporations are not taxed on foreign income-unless they bring it back. Have you ever lived abroad for an extended period of time as an expat and worked. Not so for individuals and again the USA is the only country in the first world and one among maybe two or three countries in the whole world that follow this stupid policy-that is to pay taxes on worldwide income for individuals-subject to the exemption and taxation treaties with differetn countries. The reporting requirements are so onerous, that some foriegn instituions are refusing to do business with US citizens. The land of the free .
Yeah it is political-for some people who have a fixed view of the world and can't comprehend that the world might be a bit different than what they think it is supposed to be. Then they build museums that they think that proves that men rode dinosaurs. Again you are totally off - this has nothing to do with lefties or righties.
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lostand confused says
I read the frigging complaint. That's why I posted it. I understand what he is being charged with. He will be charged with tax evasion also. Good.
My point, which you seem to have no understanding of, is that this was a stupid person to choose as an example of the problems with FBAR. It's a case where FBAR actually worked to pick up tax evasion. The guy wasn't some poor schmo who just didn't remember to file. He was working very hard at tax evasion. I have zero sympathy. Scumbags like him are one of the reasons why I have to deal with FBAR in the first place.
Yes I file FBAR, no I don't have my money overseas to avoid taxes. I have my money overseas to be out of the reach of the US government, which can seize it at any time for any reason. Rule in the US is now grab first and let you prove you have a right to get it back. Yes the reporting requirements are a pain in the ass that I could do without.
lostand confused says
That is incorrect. Most countries tax world wide income. The US is the only country other than North Korea that taxes world wide income while not resident. You get a foreign earned income exclusion of 95,100 and any taxes you pay overseas are credited against your US taxes. I don't send any money to the US while working overseas, I just have to file the forms.
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bob2356 says
So you say, but the fact is HE is NOT charged as of now. When he is charged-we will see. But until then this is just FBAR violation. You honestly think once our stupid governemnt sees the benefits of this, they will stop-no, like any law that brings them money, it will expand and expand and expand, till it becomes a monstrous bureacratic mess.
bob2356 says
Yes that is what I meant to say, left out the resident part-the US is the only first world country in the world that does this . Yes, as I mentioned there is the exemption-mind you that is just the federal exemption. if you are resident from a state that has state taxes-depending on the code you could still owe taxes. Some will dispute you have left and others don't care-it gets messy. Then of course you have to deal with the local taxes of the country.
Then these stupid forms that you have to fill out every figging year -when no other first world country have that. If you are a resident of say Britain and work in the middle east-you pay zero taxes. Now with the US, you have a whole mess that you have to deal with.
Now corporations on the other hand-can have unlimited amounts of cash that they don't have to pay taxes on-unless they bring it back. Why is it that an individual and corporation are treated differently-shouldn't an individual be treated the same as a corporation-after all the Supreme court says they are the same??
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bob2356 says
Bob,
That sounds like communism to me.
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Failure to disclose foriegn accounts is worse than child porn for USA
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lostand confused says
It is a monstrous mess. It started as a monstrous mess. You still picked the wrong person to be your poster boy for the evils of fbar.
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bob2356 says
The govt always pick the weakest person to make an example and gain legitamacy. Like that Brailizan co-founder of Facebook who actually had to pay half a billion follars in exit taxes. You had senators condemning him-easy pickings-an immigrant with no real connections. Why on earth would you have to pay future taxes-if you want to leave this country for ever?
The same senators who condemned him are furiously trying to get the corporate rule tossed aside-you know the one where corporations that make money offshore can't bring it back without being taxed. now they only keep it offshore, for it not to be taxed-unlike us, who always are. These same senators who think the co-founder is a villain want to take that away for corporations. Why not for individulas-especially if you are a resident of another country-why the double standards?
If you don't defend for the weakest victims and once it becomes acceptable, they will come after the small fry like me and presumably you. We are the country with the biggest incarceration rate in the whole world-the whole world. We throw more people in jail than any nation on earth-both in absolute numbers and in percenatage. Why should he be hung out to dry, when Bank of America and Mitt Romney and Bain Capital have totally different rules governing them?
This is like parking tickets or speeding tickets. When I lived in S.F they had a budge deficit and so they raised parking tickets-didn't even hide the reason. I thought parking tickets were for reducing inconvenience and danger-not raise money for govt bureacrats. When Arnie the maid banger was Governor, he proposed raising fees for speeding tickets and adding speed cameras to red light camers-so you could increase income. The govt already estimated how much money it will bring in -didn't even say it was for safety reasons , just openly said it would raise this much to cover the budget deficit. People don't question govt motives and we become a nation of sheep where the govt jails more people than any on earth, the govt has power over every family in America and the power to determine how much time you spend with kids or how much money you should give them-down to the last dime. No wonder we keep harping about the land of the free.
Of course they will highlight the one red light runner who sped through and make an example out of him-but then they will put up a camera and hidden vans in every streets. Until people question the legitamcy of the very existance of these laws, then they will keep piling them on. Take the Patriot laws-parts of it were used to catch Elliot Spitzer and several men who were using prostitutes-is that what you want big gubmnt to do- gubmnt keeping tabs on everyhting we do and then catching us and fining us? maybe next they will have cameras in toilets-to see if we only flush once or not.
What I find odd is that many republicans seem to support this too-why should individuals be treated different. If he were a corporation, the money would not be a problem at all.
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lostand confused says
The weakest victim? WTF? How can someone that knowingly violated the law be a victim? Come on. He was sharp enough to form dummy corporations in multiple countries and move money around the world. He never heard of FBAR? Why the impassioned defense for someone gaming the system to cheat you and me? Guys like that are part of the reason everyone else has to put with these intrusive laws. If they used fatca to nail him then good. It's a crappy law, I hate it, but it's there and everyone has to comply.
You're a victim when you are innocent and someone knowingly uses the law against you wrongly. Examples abound, asset seizures, warrant less searches, fake lab results, prosecutorial misconduct, holding citizens without charges, the list goes on for ever.
Yes I agree all these intrusive laws for monitoring the citizens with no valid suspicion of wrongdoing, including fatca, are very wrong They are very opposed to the principles of the constitution, and represent a government that is past the tipping point in it's desire for power to control the populace. I would say I'm a hell of a lot more concerned all this than you. I'm concerned enough that I've gotten other citizenships and moved almost all my assets out of the reach of the US government.
Paranoid? Maybe, but looking at the big picture there is only one context where all these new laws about tracking money overseas makes any sense, The official reason is It's to bring in all the money lost to tax evasion, but that doesn't wash. It's going to cost more to administer all these programs than the amount of money recovered from tax evasion. A number of studies from reliable groups have concluded this to be true.
So why is the government so desperately interested in how much in assets people have overseas and where these assets are if it's not going to bring in additional revenue? The only answer I can come with (other than political posturing) is the government is setting up for future wealth tax and capital controls. I don't think it's a conscious plan, just something politicians throughout history have drifted into naturally when times get desperate. It's like they are following the same script time and time again. Wealth tax and capital controls are almost always 2 of the 3 horseman of apocalypse for governments going down the tubes financially. The third is currency debasement. Get the 3 together, throw in travel restrictions, and history tells us the end is near. Default, chaos, and suffering soon follow. No suffering for the 1%, who actually make money in a collapse, just everyone else.
Is it different here? Is It different this time? I really hope so, but I'm not very confident. Is this radical overkill on my part? I really hope so also. But getting caught on the back side of the curve when governments go south financially is always disaster for anyone that has saved.
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When you say a law is wrong, you can't say, oh but in this instance it is right. No different than the Patriot Law used to find married men hiring hookers. If the law is wrong, one must work toward repealing it-not supporting it.
Oh in this case it is right, oh well I guess it has its values after all. Nope.
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lostand confused says
Obeying the law isn't supporting it. I obey many laws I don't support and/or have written my useless congresscritters many times protesting. I didn't say in any instance it's right. I said in this instance that at least the bad law caught a scumbag who richly deserved it. If the patriot act brought down Eliot then so be it. he deserved it also. I hate the patriot act and don't support it at all.
My original point, which I've iterated several times but you keep ignoring or failing to understand, is if you want to make your case that a law is bad at least find someone who isn't a case in point why the law should exist in the first place to use as an example. Sovereign Man is pretty good reading but tends to hysterically overstate the case to the point of being counterproductive at times. This is one of those times.
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Then we have to agree to disagree. I don't agree on the Patriot law being used to catch Elliott Spitzer hiring escorts-plenty of other men were caught, but he was the most famous.
Throughout history, the govt always forms laws and justifies it by using "scumbags"-in this case not proven and not even charged. Then it applies to everybody. It is like the feminists and the great patriarchy. You might support equality, but then realize when in a dispute-you as a man are now the patriarchy who held women down-well you are clubbed in that category .
Mandates and laws like this are counterproductive. The govt will always point out to laws and the one "bad "guy, meanwhile snaring thousands and thousands of Elliott Spitzers, who are too embarrassed to come forward, pay the fines and move on.
They are like wolves, once they taste blood, will never back down-unless they meet opposition to it. When people who are against such laws support it in one or two instances, that only gives them more power and legitimacy.
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Wow. What a stupid, stupid thread.
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Homeboy says
Wow. What a stupid, stupid comment.
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Oh, you sure got me there. Congratulations. Keep up the good work.
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Homeboy says
Thank You. Self reflection is a virtue.