WatchIn 2004 it was Kerry lied about Vietnam. (he didn't)
In 2008 it was no surrender in Iraq and birther bullshit.
In 2012 it is the deficit and the economy.
These discussions dominate the press and are overwhelmingly favorable discussions to Republicans and the right. Regardless of how liberal people want to believe the mainstream media is, the echo chamber is extremely efficient at hiding issues that show Republicans in a poor light and amplifying issues that matter to putting Republicans in office.
One of the biggest issues in this election is the near total elimination of federal taxes for rich people in America. Nothing else even comes close in the level of importance, yet it is totally ignored by everyone.
However issues that are complete fiction, the lie that Obama is a socialist or that Obama is the biggest spender in history or that Romney is good at business or that the country would prosper if only Republicans would suck trillions of dollars of spending out of it, are what people talk about now.
The only conclusion that makes sense is that America is now dominated by a radical right wing press that holds truth in total contempt. The silly claim that the media has a liberal bias is so stupid now that it's inconceivable that anyone could believe it.
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errc says
This is called proving a point by omission. It's an endless game that both sides can play and it proves nothing.
What I did was provide specific examples of the agenda of the nation being set by Newscorp. Everything you remember from the 2008 election is a talking point from Fox. Nothing you remember from 2008 was harmful to McCain other than perhaps the idiocy of Sarah Palin which was so atrocious (McCain is the first to agree) that no one could ignore her.
2008: Ayres, Wright, Born in Kenya, Socialist, Whitey, grades, drug use.
What do you remember about McCain? Not a fucking thing.
There is no doubt whatsoever that the nation's media agenda is controlled by the right. I defy anyone to show how any empty popular issue serves the left. It's a fiction and as I said previously, nothing more than religious dogma.
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iwog says
Soooo just to be clear, these things aren't important?
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CaptainShuddup says
Of course they are important, but the most important fact about the deficit and the economy is totally ignored. They are the result of Republican policies and Republican lawmaking. Almost exclusively and without exception.
"Pin it on Obama" is the mantra, and the conservative media is saturated with it. It doesn't matter of Republicans wont let Obama change policy. It doesn't matter if the only legislation that Obama was successful in passing hasn't been implemented yet. All that matters is the talking point.
It's going to put you out of a job. Thank god I'm in the bankruptcy industry because we're going to be working double shifts next year.
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iwog says
Oh you speaky-de-it English now huh?
"It's Bush's Fault" - serving up bemoaning since 2008.
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CaptainShuddup says
Another cliche programmed into your head by the media.
How about actually looking at what Obama has changed instead of pretending there's wisdom in an empty talking point?
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iwog says
Oh your finally learning..... let's look at what Obama has changed (for the better) not for the worst... that should be a short list...
And don't blame lack of accomplishment " on blocking by the repubs"... that cliche is so old...
Please give me your list...... I'm waiting......
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Call it Crazy says
Wow, you really are a joke. You don't know what a cliche is do you. It's not a cliche, it's a fact of the mechanics of government supported by the reality that Republicans closed the door to everything.
Call it Crazy says
He hasn't changed anything since 2009, and what he did accomplish is mostly positive.
Iwog: Unlock the door, the house is on fire.
Call: I can't because Republicans changed the locks.
Iwog: So if we die, it was because of Republicans.
Call: That's such a cliche.
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I'm not a television watcher, so my mind isn't constantly polluted with that crap.
All I ever heard was how mccain suspended his campaign to go and vote to bailout the rich via working, taxpaying folks monies via tarp
I heard how he was too old to survive four years (imagine that, leftists wrong again).
I heard how sarah palin was so effing stupid (relative to what, joe biden?)
Your perception is your reality, and because you are so biased, its impossible for you to make an objective opinion, thus, you claim its a right wing media with an agenda shaping the discussion.
The flow of informationis sequestered by TPTB, the uber doober wealthy, and they feed you that which benefits them and they keep from you that which might pull back the curtain on their schemes
Ron paul was the most conservative candidate, and he was on media black out
It is statist media, that why it shys from truths that paint the state in a bad light. They don't care what label they get hung on them by the ill informed populace, so long as the populace is divided and pointing fingers AT EACHOTHER. Case in point, this thread,,,,
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iwog says
Empty talking points? How dare you, every thing has been Bush's fault.
I bet I could fill a search page, if I did a Patnet search on Iwog for the word "Bush's fault" or "the republicans wouldn't let him".
Funny you guys treat every one like they are morons.
You brow beat them with stupidity talk then if they keep coming back, you just write off what ever they said, as some media talking point.
But make no mistake you don't respect others enough to think they have their own point of view. But you want them to listen to your bull crap.
Good luck with that. I'm going with the winners.
"Negative Reinforcement" was not a phrase I coined yesterday.
I so eloquently described this administration in the first year with that phrase, and the Libs haven't dissapointed in proving me right.
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errc says
+100
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iwog says
iwog says
I guess that list WAS actually very small....
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iwog says
Call: Unlock the door, the house is on fire.
Iwog: I can't because Republicans changed the locks.
Call: So if we die, it was because of Republicans?
Iwog: It's all Bush's Fault...
There, fixed it for you!!
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http://www.westernjournalism.com/top-50-examples-liberal-media-bias/
Media is overwhelmingly left wing biased.
Case Closed.
iwog says
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xrpb11a says
It's probably best not to use an obviously biased site when trying to prove bias.
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Oh...so ObamaCare doesn't exist.
I see......
Looks like the republicans are fucking up again...they let over 570 pieces of legislation get through the house...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/signed-legislation?page=57
Oh wait! I forgot....they 'closed the door to everything'...
iwog says
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Actually, I think it helps.
It's easier to deduce the rational middle point when you are aware of the extremist positions.
Bigsby says
iwog says
See how it works? I give examples. You give nothing
It's probably best not to use an obviously biased site when trying to prove bias.
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so you are grateful that you will be padding your fortune off the backs of the bankrupt middle class.
I see....
iwog says
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xrpb11a says
If I link to two openly biased sites from either extreme, that does not then make it easier to find the middle ground.
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CaptainShuddup says
I guarantee I'm smart enough to comprehend a good argument. You know the kind where one presents the facts and logic behind their point of view. When I say I can comprehend a good argument, I don't mean I always agree, because maybe I find holes in the logic or find the facts incorrect. I have yet to hear anything resembling a coherent argument from you captain. Which, is it ?
1) You are incapable of putting together an argument that explains your point of view ?
2) You don't have any real logic or facts behind your point of view, its just your gut feeling ?
3) You, don't have to bother yourself explaining. If I can't understand why you FEEL the way you do, that's my problem.
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Interesting that Iwog presents a good argument, and your reponse is "we have to listen to your bullcrap."
I find it depressing. People are so fucking able to believe what they want to believe.
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marcus says
I believe that Marcus.
I just don't believe the Obama bullcrap.
See it isn't all inclusive, I can pick and chose my dosage.
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well, it does.
* pick and choose legitimate presentations.
* research and discard injected bullshit.
* you are left with the 'probable'
Bigsby says
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xrpb11a says
Then you don't start by picking openly biased sites, do you?
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CaptainShuddup says
I guess if I have no idea what this means, thats almost as good as making an argument that's just too high level for me to understand.
I prefer Iwogs style. Very easy to comprehend, and apparently you can not refute it.
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Bias is in the eye of the beholder.
Bigsby says
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marcus says
What exactly do you find depressing about that? Is it because you've only now figured it out?
Without the ability for people to believe, what they want to believe, this thread doesn't exist,,,,,
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"What exactly do you find depressing about that? Is it because you've only now figured it out?"
(Had to open another browser to see this comment.)
No, what's depressing is I keep learning the further degree to which it is true. I never thought that our country would be as captured by propaganda as it is now. Most people think that what happened in Nazi Germany could never happen here.
I think they are dead wrong. We are at a point now where folks openly embrace lies and are proud of it. We confuse freedom with the idea that everyone's opinion has equal value regardless of the logic or facts behind it. I have been a person on this forum to defend the rights of people to their spiritual views, well more than just their rights, I have defended the views (to an extent). But that doesn't mean that I don't wish we all had more respect for truth, intelligence, reason and science.
It's depressing, because it's not what this country was supposed to be, and because it might mean that we as a species are doomed.
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Look and you will find it, what goes unsought will go undetected
If you choose to be depressed and poison yourself with the idea that we as a species, might be doomed, don't be surprised when you wind up depressed, and convinced that we are doomed. If you have good information when someone you come across has bad info, embrace the teaching moment. That's how we all collectively better ourselves.
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xrpb11a says
It's ridiculous to post a link to a site you know favours a certain point of view and then say that. Just because the site confirms your bias, it doesn't then negate it. You should still be aware it doesn't represent a fair and balanced opinion.
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CaptainShuddup says
Bill Maher’s New Rule For GOP: You Must Admit The Historical Existence Of George W. Bush
The fact is that the Bush administration caused the deaths of over a million people, throw America back to the Dark Ages where torture was routine and the rights under the Magna Carta didn't even yet exist, destroyed the economy, ran up an insane amount of debt to fight wars that violated international laws, destroyed the moral goodwill that America built up over 100 years, and utterly divided America into two polarized groups who absolutely hate each other.
It's going to take way the hell longer than four years to undo the damaged caused by that administration, especially since we haven't even started the effort. The PATRIOT Act hasn't even been repealed. The TSA are still operating. And we're still fighting the wars that Bush started even though our government likes to lie to the people by telling them we're not.
So, no. The Republican Party, which is responsible for Bush and everything he did, doesn't get to pretend that today's problems aren't Bush's and consequentially their own fault. If you didn't want Obama in office, you shouldn't have committed the biggest electoral fraud in American history by taking the presidency away from Gore, the rightfully elected candidate, and giving it to a retarded puppet controlled by a despicable and evil ogre.
It's going to take America a damn long time to forget about Bush. He was our Mussolini, and he deserves the same fate.
If the Republican Party ever wants my vote, not only do they have to acknowledge Bush and the evil he did, but they have to demonstrate that the Republican Party will never ever fucking do that shit again and will fight for the exact opposite change. Do that for twenty years and then I'll think about forgiving that party.
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marcus says
Now you understand my stance on religion.
If only there were some other way of viewing the universe based on facts and reasoning rather than accepting whatever delusions most appeal to you. Oh wait, there is. It's called rationalism.
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There was a time when the big 3 tv networks gave huge budgets to their news divisions with practically no strings attached. They were making so much money that they could afford to lose $$$ in the new dept.
Newspapers too made boatloads of money with advertising - especially the classifieds. They had the resources ($$$) to hire lots of good reporters.
During this period the "liberal media" whining began from the right. In some cases (esp. network news) they were correct. The people running these organizations were intelligent, well educated and generally more progressive in their world view.
This has changed. Now multinational corporations control tv news and the newspapers are all but dead (thank you Craigslist). If the conservatives on this thread think the media is "liberal" it is only because from their perspective Ronald Reagan was a socialist.
The press/media today has one main objective and one only. $$$
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Dan8267 says
I always understood it, and I always had a problem with fundamentalism. I just disagree with your absolute black and white position.
There are plenty of EXTREMElY rational people who have some kind of religion or spirituality in their lives. I find it to be an illogical position to say that because religion CAN BE stupid or even evil, therefore all religion is stupid and evil. wtf, humans including atheists can be stupid or evil.
We've had this discussion before, and I understand your position and you don't understand mine. Can we please not go there again now. I've tried as hard as I can to explain it. I'm okay with the fact that understanding my point of view would mean you would have to amend a position that you're married to.
Let's move on.
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marcus says
Then you misread everything I've written. I've always acknowledge that everything is fuzzy, everything is degree, and all evils can be throttled.
marcus says
Nor is that my analysis. My analysis is that religion is inherently bad, not that it is bad because some people take it to whatever arbitrary line you call extreme.
Religion is inherently bad because it bases power on deception, and that can never be a winning combination. Sure, like all other evils, religion can be throttled, but that doesn't change that it is fundamentally a bad thing.
Strip away all that is bad from religion, and what you are left with is not religion, but rather philosophy.
marcus says
No, I think you have that reversed.
marcus says
I'm not married to any idea. I'll be glad to accept the fact that we are all fleas on a dog's ass if you can rationally prove that. I, however, reserve the right to be skeptical.
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Iwog is a pathetic shill. And he lives off of rentier/unearned income just like Rmoney. Anyone who still believes there are two parties with real opposing interests is a moron. And anyone who believes rich men on rentier income care about others is crazy.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIX5_mFVXZM
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Mick Russom says
Then why is it that Iwog makes so much sense to a lot of people who do care about others. It's pretty obvious he is sincere and believes what he says. Who is he a shill for ?
Are you saying that Iwog is a shill for people who care ? Perhaps he's a shill for intelligent people who understand that in as much as the Judge Napolitano has a point, it doesn't mean that there is really no difference between the parties.
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marcus says
Then why does he get so many dislikes on his posts??
marcus says
There are some delusional people in the world....
marcus says
That's pretty obvious!!!
marcus says
There is NO difference.... they are BOTH taking us down the rat hole!!
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Call it Crazy says
So what are you doing about it? Whining at Patrick.net?
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rooemoore says
No, just waiting for your witty response!!!
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Call it Crazy says
You know exactly why he gets dislikes on his posts. There are enough people on here who would press the dislike button pretty much irrespective of what he posts.
Your delusional comment sums things up really. Nothing he says is delusional and plenty of it is bang on the mark. There are a number of people on here who hold political views where greater social justice doesn't appear to be a top priority. Or any priority.
He argues coherently about what he believes. He is met by people who simply post unfounded knee-jerk reactions devoid of evidence, or all too often, any grounding in reality. He gets annoyed and who exactly can blame him? It must be like banging your head against a brick wall. I'm not sure where he finds the energy to keep posting given the tsunami of dim-witted responses he faces.