Watchhttp://bgamall.hubpages.com/hub/Socialism-in-Moderation-Is-Good-for-America
Socialism is good in moderation. We have social security, which is a socialist program. We have medicare, which is a socialist program. We have progressive income tax, which is a socialist program. Socialism is the reason that capitalism has survived.
Follow
Befriend (1)
67 threads
274 comments
us capitalism is over if you want it. capital expansion has no where else to go but endless wars and environmental destruction. either way we're dead. paper money has no garanteed value and i don't know anyone that can survive hard times by eating gold. i think we should start building transitional communities to learn and spread the knowledge that will be required for a post capitalist world, like growing, conserving and cooking our own healthy food, learning herbal medicine, building our own houses (the amish barn raising comes to mind) and grappling with the technical and interpersonal skills we will need to survive. I don't see much of a "in the meantime" left. it's time to get busy on making the freedom loving, life preserving alternative world we want to live in -the post capitalist world.
Follow
Befriend (14)
817 threads
2,811 comments
63 male
Las Vegas, NV
bgamall4's website
Premium
coriacci1 says
Well, since communism failed, capitalism in some form is all we have left. There is likely only a capitalist world, but it has to embrace the dislocations that come with the movement of capital.
I don't think America is ready for, nor will it accept, Amish. I think Utopia just isn't the way, Coriacci.
Follow
Befriend
10 threads
694 comments
coriacci1 says
You can choose to lead that lifestyle now if you like.
In one week you will want your computer back.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
Raw says
Or maybe not...hmmm....
I wonder how long the "withdrawal" period for computer addiction lasts.
Follow
Befriend
10 threads
694 comments
freak80 says
You cannot survive...
1 hour without your iphone
1 day without your computer
2 days without a car.
But you can survive 1 week without food.
Follow
Befriend (14)
817 threads
2,811 comments
63 male
Las Vegas, NV
bgamall4's website
Premium
Raw says
You guys are really funny. You need to write capitalist/socialist comedy!
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
What does computer addiction have to do with capitalism/socialism?
Follow
Befriend (7)
30 threads
1,267 comments
31 male
Premium
i guess it depends on what your definition of Capitalism is
ask most people to give you definitions of a few simple economic terms, and you'd be surprised at the answer.
for instance, i consider myself a capitalist, and i get some serious blow back about these economic definitions
Wealth - All material things produced by human labor, having exchange value
Land - All the material universe outside of man and his products
Labor - All the human exertion in the production of wealth
Capital - Wealth used in the production of more wealth
Wealth is distributed as rent, wages, and interest
rent - for the use of land
wages - for labor exerted
interest - for the use of capital
as soon as you conflate land with capital, it is no longer capitalism, and it is now a zero sum game.
in my opinion, that makes it pretty tough to simultaneously call oneself a capitalist while considering land to be capital
Socialism is such a misunderstood buzzword these days also. It is a system defined as the means of production being owned by the state, and a system of government built upon central planning.
this hybridization of terms really bastardizes any of the terms if you try to apply them as stand alone.
In my opinion, the basis of a capitalist system is one where there is implied risk, as in the ability to take said risk and reap the rewards when things pan out, conversely being able to fail and recognize the consequences when things don't pan out. What we have now, doesn't even resemble that anymore. I don't think our system of government really resembles Socialism either. Sadly, it seems our current system of government most closely resembles fascism
a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.
Follow
Befriend (9)
434 threads
4,247 comments
Baltimore, MD
OK, so if Socialism in moderation is good for America, which welfare programs should we eliminate so we can get to this more moderate level?
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
zzyzzx says
The first priority is to get government out of my medicare.
Follow
Befriend
41 threads
917 comments
Larkspur, CA
zzyzzx says
I'm pretty sure that corporate welfare through tax breaks, questionable government contracts, super cheap loans and flat out hand-outs is equal to or greater than welfare. Even Paul Ryan has said that it will be hard to convince the American people that social welfare programs should be cut when corporate welfare runs rampant.
End Big Oil and Big Gas Tax Breaks: 2011-2015 savings: $80 billion
End Deferral of Taxes on Income of U.S.-Controlled Corporations Abroad: 2011-2015 savings: $199 billion
Cut Subsidies to Big Agribusiness: 2011-2020 savings: $52 billion
End Accelerated Depreciation on Equipment: 2011-2015 savings: $141 billion
Permit Government to Negotiate Drug Prices for Medicare: Savings 2012-2021: $157.9 billion
End Tax Breaks For Drug Companies: 2011-2020 savings: $50 billion
Enact a Derivatives and Speculation Tax:2012-2022 savings: $650 billion
Cut these and trim social programs. Social Security could become means based. Medicare could have voucher system for routine stuff to limit hypochondriacs abuse. There are others, but until the big corporate givaways are cut, there will be a fight.
Follow
Befriend (7)
30 threads
1,267 comments
31 male
Premium
We should also end the federal income tax, as that is just a means for the majority to pick the pocket of the minority (those of us that work for a living). I guess it could loosely fit in a definition of welfare
The central bank/fed reserve could simply 'print' the money to fund the government, and show up at treasury auction to buy up gov debt, in whatever capacity is needed to fund the usfedgov operations. Doesn't get much more fair then that, a tax on the currency itself. Everyone that uses USDs would be paying their fair share
Follow
Befriend
10 threads
694 comments
zzyzzx says
For starters lets stop giving welfare to able bodied adults. They can wash cars, sell fruit or work at McDonalds. McDonald's always has a job.
If they don't want to work, they can starve.
Follow
Befriend (4)
52 threads
4,416 comments
Corning, NY
Premium
errc says
That's a little extreme, no?
What happens when the whole economy goes tits-up and people are out on the street via no fault of their own?
"Work is what I want and not charity, who will help me find a job." --sign carried by an unemployed man during the Great Depression
Follow
Befriend (14)
817 threads
2,811 comments
63 male
Las Vegas, NV
bgamall4's website
Premium
freak80 says
It is related if you are going to live like the Amish, Freak. You know, we were talking about the girl who wanted to live like the Amish and your humor came out about it.
errc says
Land is not capital if it is barren. If it being used to produce, it has to be capital. That is just fricken common sense. errc says
No, means of production owned by the state is communism. However, socialist leaning nations have from time to time nationalized the means of production to protect the nation. And, you can control markets without nationalizing the means of production. We have that for sure.
Follow
Befriend (14)
817 threads
2,811 comments
63 male
Las Vegas, NV
bgamall4's website
Premium
errc says
Did you read the article? I told you it is not immoral to tax. Wake up libertarian to the real world.
Follow
Befriend (14)
817 threads
2,811 comments
63 male
Las Vegas, NV
bgamall4's website
Premium
zzyzzx says
That is open to fair debate.
Follow
Befriend (23)
56 threads
4,081 comments
Scottsdale, AZ
robertoaribas's website
Tecumcari says
what a stupid analogy...
Follow
Befriend (1)
67 threads
274 comments
bgamall4 says
the girl does not want to live like the amish, she wished to use a community practice of the amish -barn raising- as a viable approach to solving a very real housing need in the post capitalist world. The amish have much to teach and much to learn. they, as you probably already know, are over populating their lands to crisis proportions.
Follow
Befriend (14)
817 threads
2,811 comments
63 male
Las Vegas, NV
bgamall4's website
Premium
Tecumcari says
Radical libertarians believe public schools should be eliminated. Yet they existed before the constitution was ratified and no effort was made by the classic liberal influenced founding fathers to eliminate the public schools. So how libertarian were they?