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The middle class is leaving California


By Strategic Renter   Follow   Sun, 30 Sep 2012, 3:06am PDT   14,777 views   191 comments
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http://northochousingnews.com/news/the-middle-class-is-leaving-california

I came here 2 years ago thinking this was the best state in the US and I had always dreamed of living here.
Well guess what it just isn't that good. The beaches are not as good as Florida's with the nice calm and warm gulf. The taxes here are killing me. My california taxes alone will pay the rent in most other states. gasoline high, Too many illegals ruining the schools and people begging everywhere.
I have now decided to leave and go to Henderson in Nevada which has just been voted the second most safe city in the US. With vegas on the doorstep I will never be stuck for something to do and the added benefit I will be able to buy a huge house to fit my 12x6 snooker table in and have a swimming pool.
California is living in a beach boys past and I am sorry to say it has had its day. You suckers who pay so much to live in a shack can have it

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lostand confused   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 5:40am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 152

Cliches are so passe.

37108605   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 5:53am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 153

B.A.C.A.H. says

also true:
California is leaving the middle class.

Californians are leaving the middle class.

So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

freak80   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 6:22am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 154

Reader says

So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

"As goes California, so goes the nation."

Or something like that.

37108605   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 6:25am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 155

freak80 says

Reader says

So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

"As goes California, so goes the nation."

Or something like that.

No, I think what goes on in Wackoville the rest of the Nation now will watch and learn. The last ten to fifteen years I think has altered perception.

37108605   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 6:26am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 156

lostand confused says

Cliches are so passe.

And in my view so is California.

Philistine   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 7:13am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 157

Reader says

lostand confused says



Cliches are so passe.


And in my view so is California.

California is a cliche.

SparrowBell   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 7:40am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 158

E-man says

Could it be that you couldn't make it here?

That's a rather rude statement. It's probably a smart move for a state that is moving towards the direction where only the rich and poors can afford to stay. One would need to make so much, for e.g., in bay area, to be classified as middle class compared to other states. Common conversation for a typical income of 250K in bay area are always housing prices, stock markets, else where, like East Coast, anything but constant preoccupation with money. At one point, ones really need to think if you live to make money or you make money to live.

37108605   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 8:05am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 159

SparrowBell says

At one point, ones really need to think if you live to make money or you make money to live.

EVERYONE on Patrick.net should read THAT line! Because there are plenty of money loving hungry greedy bastards on here who either live in a dream world or just to me live to fuck people over.

Either way, it all comes back ten-fold so I pity each of them.

37108605   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 8:08am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 160

And furthermore regarding that "make it here?" remark. There is no "making it" pal if "making it" means living amongst 99% of a population that is welfare and spending 500K or worse 800K to live in a shack. THAT is just plain stupidity in my book.

jsmarket   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 9:29pm PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 161

We've been in North Bay, north of San Fran, for 10 years now.

We still like it - moderate tempts, water and hills nearby, no mosquitos, etc.

But the taxes here are absurd - from extra dollop of tax on every gallon of gas to ~1.25% per year on full valuation of properties (in the nations most expensive housing market so collections are monstrous) to income taxes now topping the 10.8% bracket. We paid almost 8% in state income taxes last year...that tax alone could rent a modest place in Florida (where we have lotsa' family) and elsewhere. Florida has 0% income tax, too.

I try not to calculate how many actual dollars we've paid in income taxes these 10 years. We've lived in Washington DC and metro NY previously so we're no strangers to high taxes and relatively high living costs...but California takes it to a whole new plain.

For now, we're happy here all in all. But I'm thinking there's somewhere else in our future to come as this is kinda' madness spending this much in such a poorly governed state.

37108605   Fri, 12 Oct 2012, 9:38pm PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 162

jsmarket says

.that tax alone could rent a modest place in Florida (where we have lotsa' family) and elsewhere. Florida has 0% income tax, too.

But I know from my family in FL you may not pay some of the same but you WILL be hit with outragious electric bills you must run AC 24/7. Food and gas are higher than Manhattan. Schools are a mess. And real estate is still grossly with a capital G overpriced. SO in my opinion don't buy the bullshite. FL is not what it was in 1965.

bgamall4   Sat, 13 Oct 2012, 5:19am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 163

Goran_K says

CalPERs doesn't sound like a system that is fiscally maintainable, and no one in their right mind would want to keep it around unless they were part of that system, or already retired.

It will be kept around. People can contribute more, if they really want it.

Do you work for Wall Street? How about a little disclosure, Frog.

bgamall4   Sat, 13 Oct 2012, 5:20am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 164

Goran_K says

CalPERs died in 2008. What is left is a heavy stinky shell of what it used to be, and it needs to be put into the garbage where it belongs before it makes things worse.

Again, what is your stake in seeing Calpers destroyed?

Goran_K   Sat, 13 Oct 2012, 5:29am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 165

bgamall4 says

Again, what is your stake in seeing Calpers destroyed?

It is already "destroyed" because it is a failed, and ridiculous system that puts tax payers on the hook for any investment failures. I had no part in that at all, it was simply "self fulfilling" if you will.

rootvg   Sat, 13 Oct 2012, 6:02am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 166

freak80 says

bmwman91 says

The labor groups already have VASTLY more representation in CA government, and we have the results for all to see. This would dial down their influence to a level closer to that of the "nefarious, evil" private enterprise boogeymen that the opponents all love to name-drop.

We have a similar political dynamic here in the Rust Belt. Any attempt to dial back the power of *public sector* unions is seen as an attack on *all unions.*

"You don't want teachers to strike? Well then, you're no different than a Pinkerton thug at the Battle of Homestead!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike

The big problem back home is that EVERYTHING is viewed through that 100 year (or more) old frame of reference. Every year is 1932, every Democratic president is FDR and every labor action is the big sit down strike of 1936-1937. It's even that way among the younger folks because they've become so dependent on the old folks for jobs and survival that whatever the old fart becomes gospel whether it's actually true or not.

I'm SO glad I moved out of there.

bgamall4   Sat, 13 Oct 2012, 7:05am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 167

Reader says

I see, but I know nothing about CalPERs. In general you see I just don't trust anyone handling my money for a fee.

I agree, this was the argument that Kudlow and Trish Regan said on CNBC when W was pushing for privatization of social security. Kudlow and Regan were arguing about the importance of a wealth manager, with a fee. That, and the money available to gamble with, is the reason Wall Street wants privatization of social security and why they want Calpers to be changed into a 401k or managed type plan.

Wall Street wants to take and take and take.

bgamall4   Sat, 13 Oct 2012, 7:06am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 168

Goran_K says

It is already "destroyed" because it is a failed, and ridiculous system that puts tax payers on the hook for any investment failures. I had no part in that at all, it was simply "self fulfilling" if you will.

You are still not disclosing your interest in having Calpers fail. What is your Wall Street connection? I guarantee you have one.

David N   Tue, 6 Nov 2012, 1:32am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 169

My wife and I are both professionals. We were paying well north of $1000/month in state income taxes. We left California in 2006 for Texas. I think the taxes really impact the middle and upper middle classes. The rich can afford it. But, if you and your wife are making $90,000 to $200,000 the taxes are very painful. They force you to give up a lot of things. These are the people leaving.

Goran_K   Tue, 6 Nov 2012, 1:36am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 170

bgamall4 says

You are still not disclosing your interest in having Calpers fail. What is your Wall Street connection? I guarantee you have one.

I used to work at Goldman Sachs. :)

bgamall4   Tue, 6 Nov 2012, 3:32am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 171

Goran_K says

I used to work at Goldman Sachs. :)

Crap. I bet you work in finance somewhere. :)

bgamall4   Tue, 6 Nov 2012, 3:33am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 172

David N says

My wife and I are both professionals. We were paying well north of $1000/month in state income taxes. We left California in 2006 for Texas. I think the taxes really impact the middle and upper middle classes. The rich can afford it. But, if you and your wife are making $90,000 to $200,000 the taxes are very painful. They force you to give up a lot of things. These are the people leaving.

Don't let the door hit you in the rear. I know folks who make in the200k range and they are doing pretty well.

exflirt   Tue, 6 Nov 2012, 8:28am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 173

bgamall4 says

Don't let the door hit you in the rear. I know folks who make in the200k range and they are doing pretty well.

Lol

You're squabbling with someone about California taxes using a "my friend said..." argument?!?

THAT'S a sound position.

CaptainShuddup   Tue, 6 Nov 2012, 11:41pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 174

anon12366 says

The democrats' policies against young people are not ones of stupidity or ignorance. They are of intentional theft, intentional fraud, and intentional malice. The DNC must be destroyed.

Finally somebody that gets it.
While the republicans are vile in their own right, their agendas only negatively effect the current moment. All of their ailments are easily treatable by one single vote.

It is the Democrats that do a far more insidious destruction on Democracy. They are the ones that want to carve out factions and assign life time roles to different segments of the population.

You'll never see the Liberals trying to run the Shit on Haitian or Jamaican communities they try run rough shod over the American black constituents.
They have American black constituents convinced they are worthless and it is fine if they are lawless, because it's the White republican fault.
Then they leave them with... "Don't change, never change, the checks in the mail." Meanwhile Haitian and Jamaican families are working on buying their third and fourth home, while the father works three jobs, and the wife works two jobs. With in another ten years, they'll own a fleet of taxis, or a monopoly on Caribbean AM radio in their market.

Our poor poor Black Americans it's got to be the skin, but how do Islanders skirt this impediment?

BobMSN   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 12:14am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 175

Democrats are warm water. The poor people, including poor blacks and poor Latinos, are frogs in that warm water. They feel so comfortable when the water warms up to the boiling point.

DukeLaw   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 3:24am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 176

Wow, revistionist history much? So it wasn't white conservatives that concluded that "separate but equal" was viable under our Constitution? Jim Crow laws? Segregated seating and bathrooms? All pleasurable lifestyles for blacks until those filthy Democrats actually passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It's like you live in a white fantasy land.....

37108605   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 4:38am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 177

bgamall4 says

I know folks who make in the200k range

ALERT: NO ONE CARES.

Goran_K   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 4:40am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 178

bgamall4 says

Crap. I bet you work in finance somewhere. :)

That's why I'm able to ascertain that CalPERs is a zombie. :)

maxweber21   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 4:48am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 179

Well, Australia is ahead of the USA in net immigration. But look at Syria on emigration!
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=27&c=as&c=br&c=ei&c=sy&c=us&l=en
Didn't see a chart for states.

bgamall4   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 7:43am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 180

exflirt says

You're squabbling with someone about California taxes using a "my friend said..." argument?!?

THAT'S a sound position.

It is a lot more personal than that. Don't worry, I know.

bgamall4   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 7:45am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 181

CaptainShuddup says

It is the Democrats that do a far more insidious destruction on Democracy. They are the ones that want to carve out factions and assign life time roles to different segments of the population.

The most dangerous faction in American politics are the neocons, and they live in and through Rove, control the Republican Party.

bgamall4   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 7:45am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 182

Goran_K says

That's why I'm able to ascertain that CalPERs is a zombie. :)

So, you have a vested interest in having private rather than public retirement accounts. I thought so. I work in thinking.

Goran_K   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 7:55am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 183

bgamall4 says

So, you have a vested interest in having private rather than public retirement accounts. I thought so. I work in thinking.

What is my "vested interest" Mr. Thinker?

bgamall4   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 8:01am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 184

Goran_K says

What is my "vested interest" Mr. Thinker?

More private accounts.

Bellingham Bill   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 8:12am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 185

My vested interest is not having to pay my share (as a taxpayer) of CalPERS' missing $20B in interest income this year.

The California pension system is a very scary thing. Promises have been made. Money's not really there, not with the transition to ZIRP and resulting loss of 8% risk-free yields.

If CalPERS was relying on that $20B of missing interest income this year (and they were of course), it stands to reason that it has to be made up with either higher employee contributions, cutback of benefits, or taxpayer money.

um, yeah. Oh, CalSTRS is in similar situation, but not quite as big (still a hundred billion dollar plus time bomb though, ~$8B of lost interest income this past year).

Washington State is looking better today, LOL.

bgamall4   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 8:18am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 186

Bellingham Bill says

My vested interest is not having to pay my share (as a taxpayer) of CalPERS' missing $20B in interest income this year.

The California pension system is a very scary thing. Promises have been made. Money's not really there, not with the transition to ZIRP and resulting loss of 8% risk-free yields.

If CalPers wants more success, perhaps listening to Wall Street is not the way. But the fix is not complex. If the actuaries get it right, just workers can contribute more to the fund.

Bellingham Bill   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 8:54am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 187

bgamall4 says

just workers can contribute more to the fund

$20B more???

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=cA8

shows total government payroll is around $150B . . . that's a 10%+ rise to make up the missing investment yields . . .

Goran_K   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 9:22am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 188

Face it bgamall, CalPERs is done as a solvent fund, or maybe bellingham bill is a "wall street interloper" just like me.

Goran_K   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 9:24am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 189

bgamall4 says

More private accounts.

I do think CalPERs risk should be privatized, and not socialized, like they are now.

thomaswong.1986   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 12:28pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 190

Bellingham Bill says

My vested interest is not having to pay my share (as a taxpayer) of CalPERS' missing $20B in interest income this year.

you cant be missing $20B that you never had to begin with. But your short in the required pension balance. Thats the problem with a defined benefit pension .. plenty of bankruptcies in private sector to prove the point. And in todays near zero interest environment .. wont make it . Start packing !

Peter P   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 12:36pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 191

bgamall4 says

Don't let the door hit you in the rear. I know folks who make in the200k range and they are doing pretty well.

Question is, can they do better in Texas?

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