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The middle class is leaving California


By Strategic Renter   Follow   Sun, 30 Sep 2012, 10:06am   12,337 views   191 comments
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http://northochousingnews.com/news/the-middle-class-is-leaving-california

I came here 2 years ago thinking this was the best state in the US and I had always dreamed of living here.
Well guess what it just isn't that good. The beaches are not as good as Florida's with the nice calm and warm gulf. The taxes here are killing me. My california taxes alone will pay the rent in most other states. gasoline high, Too many illegals ruining the schools and people begging everywhere.
I have now decided to leave and go to Henderson in Nevada which has just been voted the second most safe city in the US. With vegas on the doorstep I will never be stuck for something to do and the added benefit I will be able to buy a huge house to fit my 12x6 snooker table in and have a swimming pool.
California is living in a beach boys past and I am sorry to say it has had its day. You suckers who pay so much to live in a shack can have it

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  1. lostand confused


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    152   12:40pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    Cliches are so passe.

  2. 37108605


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    153   12:53pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    B.A.C.A.H. says

    also true:
    California is leaving the middle class.

    Californians are leaving the middle class.

    So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

  3. freak80


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    154   1:22pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Reader says

    So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

    "As goes California, so goes the nation."

    Or something like that.

  4. 37108605


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    155   1:25pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    freak80 says

    Reader says

    So what is left is less than 1% who live in very narrow areas and the mass are poor people? Man wouldn't want to see that kind of hellhole after ten years.

    "As goes California, so goes the nation."

    Or something like that.

    No, I think what goes on in Wackoville the rest of the Nation now will watch and learn. The last ten to fifteen years I think has altered perception.

  5. 37108605


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    156   1:26pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    lostand confused says

    Cliches are so passe.

    And in my view so is California.

  6. Philistine


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    157   2:13pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    Reader says

    lostand confused says



    Cliches are so passe.


    And in my view so is California.

    California is a cliche.

  7. SparrowBell


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    158   2:40pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    E-man says

    Could it be that you couldn't make it here?

    That's a rather rude statement. It's probably a smart move for a state that is moving towards the direction where only the rich and poors can afford to stay. One would need to make so much, for e.g., in bay area, to be classified as middle class compared to other states. Common conversation for a typical income of 250K in bay area are always housing prices, stock markets, else where, like East Coast, anything but constant preoccupation with money. At one point, ones really need to think if you live to make money or you make money to live.

  8. 37108605


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    159   3:05pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    SparrowBell says

    At one point, ones really need to think if you live to make money or you make money to live.

    EVERYONE on Patrick.net should read THAT line! Because there are plenty of money loving hungry greedy bastards on here who either live in a dream world or just to me live to fuck people over.

    Either way, it all comes back ten-fold so I pity each of them.

  9. 37108605


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    160   3:08pm Fri 12 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    And furthermore regarding that "make it here?" remark. There is no "making it" pal if "making it" means living amongst 99% of a population that is welfare and spending 500K or worse 800K to live in a shack. THAT is just plain stupidity in my book.

  10. jsmarket


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    161   4:29am Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    We've been in North Bay, north of San Fran, for 10 years now.

    We still like it - moderate tempts, water and hills nearby, no mosquitos, etc.

    But the taxes here are absurd - from extra dollop of tax on every gallon of gas to ~1.25% per year on full valuation of properties (in the nations most expensive housing market so collections are monstrous) to income taxes now topping the 10.8% bracket. We paid almost 8% in state income taxes last year...that tax alone could rent a modest place in Florida (where we have lotsa' family) and elsewhere. Florida has 0% income tax, too.

    I try not to calculate how many actual dollars we've paid in income taxes these 10 years. We've lived in Washington DC and metro NY previously so we're no strangers to high taxes and relatively high living costs...but California takes it to a whole new plain.

    For now, we're happy here all in all. But I'm thinking there's somewhere else in our future to come as this is kinda' madness spending this much in such a poorly governed state.

  11. 37108605


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    162   4:38am Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    jsmarket says

    .that tax alone could rent a modest place in Florida (where we have lotsa' family) and elsewhere. Florida has 0% income tax, too.

    But I know from my family in FL you may not pay some of the same but you WILL be hit with outragious electric bills you must run AC 24/7. Food and gas are higher than Manhattan. Schools are a mess. And real estate is still grossly with a capital G overpriced. SO in my opinion don't buy the bullshite. FL is not what it was in 1965.

  12. bgamall4


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    163   12:19pm Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Goran_K says

    CalPERs doesn't sound like a system that is fiscally maintainable, and no one in their right mind would want to keep it around unless they were part of that system, or already retired.

    It will be kept around. People can contribute more, if they really want it.

    Do you work for Wall Street? How about a little disclosure, Frog.

  13. bgamall4


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    164   12:20pm Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Goran_K says

    CalPERs died in 2008. What is left is a heavy stinky shell of what it used to be, and it needs to be put into the garbage where it belongs before it makes things worse.

    Again, what is your stake in seeing Calpers destroyed?

  14. Goran_K


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    165   12:29pm Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    Again, what is your stake in seeing Calpers destroyed?

    It is already "destroyed" because it is a failed, and ridiculous system that puts tax payers on the hook for any investment failures. I had no part in that at all, it was simply "self fulfilling" if you will.

  15. rootvg


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    166   1:02pm Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike   Protected  

    freak80 says

    bmwman91 says

    The labor groups already have VASTLY more representation in CA government, and we have the results for all to see. This would dial down their influence to a level closer to that of the "nefarious, evil" private enterprise boogeymen that the opponents all love to name-drop.

    We have a similar political dynamic here in the Rust Belt. Any attempt to dial back the power of *public sector* unions is seen as an attack on *all unions.*

    "You don't want teachers to strike? Well then, you're no different than a Pinkerton thug at the Battle of Homestead!"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike

    The big problem back home is that EVERYTHING is viewed through that 100 year (or more) old frame of reference. Every year is 1932, every Democratic president is FDR and every labor action is the big sit down strike of 1936-1937. It's even that way among the younger folks because they've become so dependent on the old folks for jobs and survival that whatever the old fart becomes gospel whether it's actually true or not.

    I'm SO glad I moved out of there.

  16. bgamall4


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    167   2:05pm Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Reader says

    I see, but I know nothing about CalPERs. In general you see I just don't trust anyone handling my money for a fee.

    I agree, this was the argument that Kudlow and Trish Regan said on CNBC when W was pushing for privatization of social security. Kudlow and Regan were arguing about the importance of a wealth manager, with a fee. That, and the money available to gamble with, is the reason Wall Street wants privatization of social security and why they want Calpers to be changed into a 401k or managed type plan.

    Wall Street wants to take and take and take.

  17. bgamall4


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    168   2:06pm Sat 13 Oct 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Goran_K says

    It is already "destroyed" because it is a failed, and ridiculous system that puts tax payers on the hook for any investment failures. I had no part in that at all, it was simply "self fulfilling" if you will.

    You are still not disclosing your interest in having Calpers fail. What is your Wall Street connection? I guarantee you have one.

  18. David N


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    169   9:32am Tue 6 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    My wife and I are both professionals. We were paying well north of $1000/month in state income taxes. We left California in 2006 for Texas. I think the taxes really impact the middle and upper middle classes. The rich can afford it. But, if you and your wife are making $90,000 to $200,000 the taxes are very painful. They force you to give up a lot of things. These are the people leaving.

  19. Goran_K


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    170   9:36am Tue 6 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    You are still not disclosing your interest in having Calpers fail. What is your Wall Street connection? I guarantee you have one.

    I used to work at Goldman Sachs. :)

  20. bgamall4


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    171   11:32am Tue 6 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Goran_K says

    I used to work at Goldman Sachs. :)

    Crap. I bet you work in finance somewhere. :)

  21. bgamall4


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    172   11:33am Tue 6 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   Protected  

    David N says

    My wife and I are both professionals. We were paying well north of $1000/month in state income taxes. We left California in 2006 for Texas. I think the taxes really impact the middle and upper middle classes. The rich can afford it. But, if you and your wife are making $90,000 to $200,000 the taxes are very painful. They force you to give up a lot of things. These are the people leaving.

    Don't let the door hit you in the rear. I know folks who make in the200k range and they are doing pretty well.

  22. exflirt


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    173   4:28pm Tue 6 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    Don't let the door hit you in the rear. I know folks who make in the200k range and they are doing pretty well.

    Lol

    You're squabbling with someone about California taxes using a "my friend said..." argument?!?

    THAT'S a sound position.

  23. CaptainShuddup


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    174   7:41am Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    anon12366 says

    The democrats' policies against young people are not ones of stupidity or ignorance. They are of intentional theft, intentional fraud, and intentional malice. The DNC must be destroyed.

    Finally somebody that gets it.
    While the republicans are vile in their own right, their agendas only negatively effect the current moment. All of their ailments are easily treatable by one single vote.

    It is the Democrats that do a far more insidious destruction on Democracy. They are the ones that want to carve out factions and assign life time roles to different segments of the population.

    You'll never see the Liberals trying to run the Shit on Haitian or Jamaican communities they try run rough shod over the American black constituents.
    They have American black constituents convinced they are worthless and it is fine if they are lawless, because it's the White republican fault.
    Then they leave them with... "Don't change, never change, the checks in the mail." Meanwhile Haitian and Jamaican families are working on buying their third and fourth home, while the father works three jobs, and the wife works two jobs. With in another ten years, they'll own a fleet of taxis, or a monopoly on Caribbean AM radio in their market.

    Our poor poor Black Americans it's got to be the skin, but how do Islanders skirt this impediment?

  24. BobMSN


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    175   8:14am Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Democrats are warm water. The poor people, including poor blacks and poor Latinos, are frogs in that warm water. They feel so comfortable when the water warms up to the boiling point.

  25. DukeLaw


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    176   11:24am Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Wow, revistionist history much? So it wasn't white conservatives that concluded that "separate but equal" was viable under our Constitution? Jim Crow laws? Segregated seating and bathrooms? All pleasurable lifestyles for blacks until those filthy Democrats actually passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It's like you live in a white fantasy land.....

  26. 37108605


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    177   12:38pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    I know folks who make in the200k range

    ALERT: NO ONE CARES.

  27. Goran_K


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    178   12:40pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    Crap. I bet you work in finance somewhere. :)

    That's why I'm able to ascertain that CalPERs is a zombie. :)

  28. maxweber21


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    179   12:48pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Well, Australia is ahead of the USA in net immigration. But look at Syria on emigration!
    http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=27&c=as&c=br&c=ei&c=sy&c=us&l=en
    Didn't see a chart for states.

  29. bgamall4


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    180   3:43pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    exflirt says

    You're squabbling with someone about California taxes using a "my friend said..." argument?!?

    THAT'S a sound position.

    It is a lot more personal than that. Don't worry, I know.

  30. bgamall4


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    181   3:45pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    CaptainShuddup says

    It is the Democrats that do a far more insidious destruction on Democracy. They are the ones that want to carve out factions and assign life time roles to different segments of the population.

    The most dangerous faction in American politics are the neocons, and they live in and through Rove, control the Republican Party.

  31. bgamall4


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    182   3:45pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Goran_K says

    That's why I'm able to ascertain that CalPERs is a zombie. :)

    So, you have a vested interest in having private rather than public retirement accounts. I thought so. I work in thinking.

  32. Goran_K


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    183   3:55pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    So, you have a vested interest in having private rather than public retirement accounts. I thought so. I work in thinking.

    What is my "vested interest" Mr. Thinker?

  33. bgamall4


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    184   4:01pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Goran_K says

    What is my "vested interest" Mr. Thinker?

    More private accounts.

  34. Bellingham Bill


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    185   4:12pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    My vested interest is not having to pay my share (as a taxpayer) of CalPERS' missing $20B in interest income this year.

    The California pension system is a very scary thing. Promises have been made. Money's not really there, not with the transition to ZIRP and resulting loss of 8% risk-free yields.

    If CalPERS was relying on that $20B of missing interest income this year (and they were of course), it stands to reason that it has to be made up with either higher employee contributions, cutback of benefits, or taxpayer money.

    um, yeah. Oh, CalSTRS is in similar situation, but not quite as big (still a hundred billion dollar plus time bomb though, ~$8B of lost interest income this past year).

    Washington State is looking better today, LOL.

  35. bgamall4


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    186   4:18pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Bellingham Bill says

    My vested interest is not having to pay my share (as a taxpayer) of CalPERS' missing $20B in interest income this year.

    The California pension system is a very scary thing. Promises have been made. Money's not really there, not with the transition to ZIRP and resulting loss of 8% risk-free yields.

    If CalPers wants more success, perhaps listening to Wall Street is not the way. But the fix is not complex. If the actuaries get it right, just workers can contribute more to the fund.

  36. Bellingham Bill


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    187   4:54pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    just workers can contribute more to the fund

    $20B more???

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=cA8

    shows total government payroll is around $150B . . . that's a 10%+ rise to make up the missing investment yields . . .

  37. Goran_K


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    188   5:22pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Face it bgamall, CalPERs is done as a solvent fund, or maybe bellingham bill is a "wall street interloper" just like me.

  38. Goran_K


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    189   5:24pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    More private accounts.

    I do think CalPERs risk should be privatized, and not socialized, like they are now.

  39. thomaswong.1986


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    190   8:28pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    My vested interest is not having to pay my share (as a taxpayer) of CalPERS' missing $20B in interest income this year.

    you cant be missing $20B that you never had to begin with. But your short in the required pension balance. Thats the problem with a defined benefit pension .. plenty of bankruptcies in private sector to prove the point. And in todays near zero interest environment .. wont make it . Start packing !

  40. Peter P


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    191   8:36pm Wed 7 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bgamall4 says

    Don't let the door hit you in the rear. I know folks who make in the200k range and they are doing pretty well.

    Question is, can they do better in Texas?

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