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Simple, doctors are overpaid


By Rin   Follow   Sun, 28 Oct 2012, 4:19am PDT   13,532 views   126 comments   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (8)   Dislike (2)  

I think it's time that we stop the lies and admit the truth, doctors are simply overpaid. GPs are at ~$150K while specialists and surgical specialists are from $200K to $500K. Most engineers and scientists simply do not have sustainable salaries of that amount and then, for those blowhards out there (you know who you are), stop bragging about your $200K salaries in Silicon Valley. You can earn over $200K, as a doctor, in places like Des Moines Iowa, nevermind the big coastal cities.

There are postdocs in both the physical and biomedical sciences earning $42K/yr and then, soon, another 4K+ NASA scientists will be unemployed and most likely, overspecialized for a future position outside of the Natl labs. FYI, many of those jobs are accounted for. Instead of re-training a/o re-assigning these talented individuals into becoming doctors, PAs, pharmacists, nurses, etc ... they have to compete against 20-somethings for limited freshman spots in some heath care program, if they want to find a career in a field with a lot of legislated protection. Yes, there's NO (typo, now fixed) free market, in terms of supply, in the field of medicine. Here's my solution, if one can score a 30 or higher on the MCAT, he/she should be able to transfer into the clinical years of an MD program, typically into year number 3. Yes, it should be a low cost program as those first two year subjects: biochemistry, physiology, anatomy, histology, etc, are in the public domain of knowledge. While one's working in industry, let's say a NASA subcontractor, one can study those subjects on his own and then, take the AMA exam which shows that one's qualified to become a doctor.

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StoutFiles   befriend   ignore   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 10:56pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 87

Facebooksux says

First off, physicians are not overpaid. In fact, GP's are grossly UNDERPAID for the amount of work they have to do.

To be fair, just about everyone in every field declares them self underpaid.

The truth is that just about everyone in America is overpaid when you consider we live in a global economy. Perhaps relative to your neighbor or another state you are underpaid and overworked, but leave America and you'll see just how good we have it here.

Meccos   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 10:38am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 88

curious2 says

Again the defensive use of self-inflicted past suffering to justify current compensation from others, even though the past suffering is not the patient's fault and confers no benefit upon the patient. "We chose to suffer, so now we own you and have a right to overcharge you, and you are required to pay us whatever we say, and you're not allowed to take care of your own health." Plus now a counter-attack on engineers, of all people.

Wow talk about putting words into people's mouths. Did anyone really say any of this? No doctor blames the patient for their past suffering...I find it funny how you can twist words.
This is not a defensive use of self-inflicted past suffering. However whenever you consider pricing anything, including a salary, you have to take into consideration the cost to produce something, including a profession. Clearly if something or someone could be produced cheaply and quickly, it would be hard to justify a high cost. However if something was expensive and took long to produce, then a higher cost can be justified. Why can a buggati veyron sell for 2 million while a toyota camry sell for 20k? Similar principle. Isnt the whole purpose of this thread to see how a salaries can be justified? If so, why cant the argument that many years of training and thousands of dollars are required to train a doctor be used to justify the pricing for their service? We all know the salaries for the most part correlate to level of education.

BTW doctors dont set pricing, medicare sets pricing which is used by all insurances companies when deciding how much to pay doctors. may want to get your facts straight.

curious2 says

BTW, there is a significant mismatch between the amount some doctors collect, and the amount the public are required to pay. A lot gets lost in the mandatory insurance system and the administrative levels, as others have pointed out. So, some of this disagreement results from perspective: patients are paying a lot, but many doctors aren't getting a lot. The disparity is particularly wide in emergency care, where hospital charges are enormous and the amount actually passed through to doctors is often small. But emergency care is less than 10% of total spending, so when people talk about how much is paid, more than 90% is in non-emergency settings.

YOu are right. doctors make up about 8.5% of all healthcare costs in this country. Much disdain for doctor salaries come from the fact that people pay a lot of money for services rendered. Unfortunately doctors see only a fraction of that money.

curious2 says

Personally, I would rather see real healthcare reform based on engineering, expert systems, and at-home devices, instead of the mandatory entrenchment of the existing allopathy and its gatekeepers. Every pharmacy sells at-home devices so you can check your bp, pulse, temperature, weight, and height as often as you like and buying them costs less than a single doctor visit. It isn't necessary to pay a physician for tests you can do at home; the technology has advanced like the digital camera, and yet we're mandated to pay for the equivalent of film and old-fashioned processing. Computerized stethoscopes have been shown to outperform human doctors at detecting certain conditions. If we didn't have the mandatory insurance-driven system, costs could be reduced substantially with probably better results.

No one is forced to go to the doctors. If more people were like you, demand for doctors would decrease and perhaps the law of supply and demand may drive down doctor salaries. HOwever as I mentioned before doctors are 8.5% of healthcare costs and probably wouldnt make much of a dent in terms of costs. IN addition, being in the profession myself, I can guarantee you results would not be better. If you truly think so, i would urge you to try it. Next time your wife or mother has a lump in her breast, lets see you do your own history,exam,testing, diagnosis and treatment. Your clear lack of knowledge of medicine makes your statement here quite absurd...

curious2 says

Allowing free choice in a free market

YOu have free choice in a free market. No one forces you to go the doctors, no one forces you to go to a specific doctor and no one forces you to go to a doctor that you feel may charge you too much. Well.. you had the choice, not so much with obamacare...

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 10:54am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 89

Meccos says

HOwever as I mentioned before doctors are 8.5% of healthcare costs and probably wouldnt make much of a dent in terms of costs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/how-1-in-health-insurance-gets-spent/2012/01/04/gIQAuzDmaP_blog.html

says 28%

>Well.. you had the choice, not so much with obamacare

as the law stands now, if you don't like health insurance, just take the penalty/tax, and make sure the IRS never owes you money, since that's the only way -- now, at least -- that the IRS can beat the penalty/tax out of you.

Meccos   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 11:08am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 90

Rin says

Mecco and others, you keep insisting that alternate science/engineering persons can't do medicine

I never said other people cant. Plenty of people I know had other profession before going into medicine. HOwever you insinuate that many if not most people can, which is not true. Having a basic science background means really nothing. Becoming a doctor does not require a lot of intelligence. Rather the difficulty lies in the decade long process of sacrifice, persistence, dedication and delayed gratification, which is the part that most people cannot do.

In addition, the study that you quote took students that already had PhD or some other degree. Medical school is divided into 2 years of basic science and two years of clinical rotation. Since these students already had their basic sciences, they were able to graduate in two years because all they were required to do was the clinical rotations. The results of this study basically showed that students with basic science degrees can graduate quicker. Unfortunately this is pointless since you have to spend years to get a phd anyways. BTW many medical schools have a combined 6 year MD-PhD degree already. IN addition, this studies does not discuss residency, which is where you really learn EVERYTHING. ask any doctor and they will tell you that residency is what is important. Medical school just prepares you for residency, just like high school prepares you for college.

Rin says

Next, you ask if I'm bitter, etc? Yes, I am. And here's why ... today, I work for a hedge fund and I earn a ton of money. Yes, I should be thumbing my noses at you and others,

Clearly you are bitter, we all knew that. Perhaps we should be asking whether you are overpaid. But in all honesty I dont care.

Rin says

Back then, I was simply a cog in the MBAs' cost centers, always expendable. Who wouldn't look back and feel a sense of angst towards that.

You chose to go into the profession... no one to blame but yourself. Trying to minimize someone else's profession without any merit doesnt make anything better. HOWEVER if you did want to talk about big pay checks, why didnt you focus on california highway patrol officers making 300K with AWESOME benefits?

http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/

Rin says

For me, it's those who contribute, regardless of his/her compensation, that are *the winners* which is why I reject MBAs so vehemently. And yes, scientists and engineers have been contributing extensively, to the success of the practitioners of medicine. Just look around you, all the equipment including scanners, life support systems, drug delivery mechanisms, stents, pharms, etc, were once invented by scientists and engineers. Would you really be able to do your work without them?

I appreciate everyone who contributes. I appreciate everyone at the hospital down to the custodians and the cafeteria workers. However, this thread was never about appreciating who contributes was it? Rather it was an attack on doctor's salaries.

Rin says

But enough of this, as it's clear that we're at an impasse. I'd brought up this subject to get people talking about medicine and the fact that it's a waste to have 4000+ NASA engineers (and others) unemployed or underemployed, working for Home Depots, vs re-training them for careers as MDs, PAs, Nurses, Pharmacists, or whatever. Personally, it doesn't affect me at all, as I'm already well off and soon, will have no problems paying tuition for any overpriced schools but I'm thinking about others, who aren't so fortunate.

You are right. I agree that is sucks to have these scientists unemployed. However if that was your point, you clearly did not express it well... at least not until this very last paragraph.

Rin says

Personally, it doesn't affect me at all, as I'm already well off and soon, will have no problems paying tuition for any overpriced schools but I'm thinking about others, who aren't so fortunate.

Well I wouldnt say tuition is overpriced. Its not cheap to train a physician. BTW, I wasnt fortunate to have money to pay for medical school, but most doctors are not so fortunate. 200k loans are not unusual. it sucks but we all do it...

Meccos   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 11:20am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 91

Bellingham Bill says

Meccos says

HOwever as I mentioned before doctors are 8.5% of healthcare costs and probably wouldnt make much of a dent in terms of costs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/how-1-in-health-insurance-gets-spent/2012/01/04/gIQAuzDmaP_blog.html

says 28%

>Well.. you had the choice, not so much with obamacare

as the law stands now, if you don't like health insurance, just take the penalty/tax, and make sure the IRS never owes you money, since that's the only way -- now, at least -- that the IRS can beat the penalty/tax out of you.

YOu got your stats from one insurance company, which is hardly credible especially when their argument is that majority of their money is spent on actual care. These links below totaled the entire cost of healthcare costs for the country. I would say these are more accurate.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/226768.php

http://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/physician-compensation-among-lowest-western-nations

Meccos   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 1:59pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 92

chanakya4773 says

The supply of doctors has been artificially constricted by the Doctors lobby. its one of the most powerful lobby. Its very difficult for doctors from other countries to come to US for practice.

Chanakya,

I am not sure where you got your information from but this is not completely true. Although you are correct in that the number of doctors has not risen significantly, they certainly have not been artificially constricted by the "powerful doctor lobby", which I assume is a reference to the AMA. In fact there have much several studies funded by the AMA to investigate barriers to increases in medical school class sizes. In addition, due to physician shortages, there have been efforts made since the 1970 to increase the number of physicians. In the 70-80's many foreign physicians were recruited, which is why you currently see so many physicians of foreign origin in their 60's. In addition there have been much efforts to actually increase medical school sizes.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/30270.php

http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/recruitment-foreign-physicians-zero-sum-equation?page=0,2

Believe it or not, the nursing unions are much more powerful than any doctor lobby, hence the reason why doctors are losing much ground in terms of patient care. You now have nurses who practice independently of doctors. They are able to see and treat patients without doctor supervision, prescribe medications and even perform anesthesia on patients solo. Surely if the doctor lobby was so strong, you would not see any of this.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 2:13pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 93

chanakya4773 says

Its quite surprising that the whole discussion is US is not on the topic of rootcausing the issue as shown in the graph above but its on how we redistribute the high cost.

That surprised me too until I figured out that the policy discussion is dominated by lobbyists and politicians who get a cut of the $ and commercial newscasters who depend on advertising revenue from the same industry. Watch any national newscast (ABC, CBS, NBC), count the commercials, and see whom they're for. I find a clear majority are from PhRMA, and half of those are for drugs that legally require a prescripton ("Ask your doctor!"). Again it goes back to the difference between book smarts and street smarts.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 2:16pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 94

Meccos says

YOu have free choice in a free market. No one forces you to go the doctors, no one forces you to go to a specific doctor and no one forces you to go to a doctor that you feel may charge you too much. Well.. you had the choice, not so much with obamacare.

You are right that Obamacare reduces choice, but you are mistaken in saying there was a free market before Obamacare. The 1951 prescription mandate made prescriptions mandatory for most drugs. People can't even buy contact lenses without a recent prescription, though they are free to buy firearms and fire blindly. (See comment above about gatekeepers.)

curious2   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 2:22pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 95

Meccos says

BTW doctors dont set pricing, medicare sets pricing which is used by all insurances companies when deciding how much to pay doctors.

Thank you for pointing out the importance of Medicare in setting prices. To be sure that we have our facts, can you please elucidate, exactly who sets Medicare prices, and who owns the insurance billing codes that will be used in ObamaCare? To guide your research, I'll offer you a hint: they are an Association that endorsed ObamaCare, and their members tend to share a specific degree, though admittedly they do not represent the majority of doctors (only around 10%).

bob2356   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 3:32pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 96

curious2 says

Meccos says

BTW doctors dont set pricing, medicare sets pricing which is used by all insurances companies when deciding how much to pay doctors.

Thank you for pointing out the importance of Medicare in setting prices. To be sure that we have our facts, can you please elucidate, exactly who sets Medicare prices, and who owns the insurance billing codes that will be used in ObamaCare? To guide your research, I'll offer you a hint: they are an Association that endorsed ObamaCare, and their members tend to share a specific degree, though admittedly they do not represent the majority of doctors (only around 10%).

Once again, why not try being an adult and put the facts out along with your analysis and have an actual discussion.

Not that facts matter to you but I'll try. There are two sets of codes, cpt which defines service levels and icd9 which defines diagnoses. Both are an integral part of medical billing. You have to have both and get both right to get paid. Since the icd9 (soon to be 10) are owned and copyrighted by the world health organization I'm going to assume you are talking about the cpt codes.

Cpt codes are copyrighted by the AMA and developed by a committee. Cpt codes are service codes, not billing amounts. There is also the Resource-Based Relative Value Scale codes which are a scale to give differentials for different levels of expense. Physicians get more in NYC than in Moses Lake.

I think what you are groping for is the medicare fee schedule. That's set by CMS (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services) which is the federal body responsible for administering Medicare and Medicaid programs. The base schedule is run through the cpt codes for the service level and then rbrvs to get an actual payment amount. http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Medicare-Fee-for-Service-Payment/FeeScheduleGenInfo/index.html

The AMA defines the service and the CMS sets the Medicare and Medicaid rates for that service. Hope that clears things up for you. It's not some giant conspiracy.

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 3:35pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 97

chanakya4773 says

The only person i think who sees through this B.S is ron paul.

I think the "insiders" all know the numbers, too.

http://nation.foxnews.com/bill-clinton/2011/05/25/bill-clintons-private-words-paul-ryan-caught-tape

But the reality is just pretty scary and is not something that can be honestly talked about.

Who wants to hear that their taxes are going to have to DOUBLE?

Who can PAY double the tax burden?

Theoretically, it's possible, but geting there from here is not something the politicians want to tackle.

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 3:37pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 98

bob2356 says

It's not some giant conspiracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel however . . .

curious2   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 4:45pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 99

bob2356 says

try being an adult... Not that facts matter to you.... It's not some giant conspiracy.

Although your sarcasm doesn't help your point, I appreciate your detailed and informative post including an actual link. As for whether it is a conspiracy, you might consider the opinion of non-AMA doctors who contend it is illegal. Some people conflate "AMA" and "doctors," for example when the AMA endorsed Obamacare, but in reality 90% of doctors are not in the AMA. In any event, it certainly isn't market pricing, because there isn't a free market.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 5:02pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 100

Meccos says

if something was expensive and took long to produce, then a higher cost can be justified. Why can a buggati veyron sell for 2 million while a toyota camry sell for 20k? Similar principle.

I understand the principle but respectfully you are applying it backwards, i.e. you are putting the cart before the horse. In a free market, price is based on value, i.e. how much customers are willing to pay, not cost of production. This is why you see the same item sell for different prices at different times and in different markets. The causal relationship between value and cost of production is, people invest in producing things that they expect to be able to sell profitably. Sometimes they are right, other times they are wrong. If nobody wants to pay $ 2 million for a Bugatti, then Bugatti will have to accept a lower price or go out of business. Bugatti employees cannot stand athwart the road and say, "You shall not pass until you buy our car at our price." No matter how much time and money Bugatti put into building their Veyron, it is worth only what customers are willing to pay, and those customers are free to buy something cheaper, or walk.

It is interesting that in medicine, Medicare pricing (outsourced to the AMA cartel) seems to have spawned a culture where otherwise intelligent people (Bob, Meccos) get basic causation completely backwards. Bob seemed sincerely to believe that increasing supply increases prices, even though the causation is precisely opposite: higher prices attract more supply.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 2:31am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 101

chanakya4773 says

our health care system is like saying only cars which meet the standards/luxiury of buggati veryron can sell.

...and the standards/luxury of Bugatti Veyron are not even better for most people, even if they were available at the same price. If the Veyron were discounted to the same price as the Toyota Prius and Sienna, and setting aside resale value, many people would still choose the Sienna because it has more space and many would still choose the Prius because it uses less fuel. The Veyron is a more expensive car, but that does not make it an intrinsically better car, at least not for everyone. As noted above, Americans pay more than people in any other country, but our outcomes are not better, in fact they are worse than dozens of other countries where people pay less.

bob2356   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 3:38am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 102

curious2 says

It is interesting that in medicine, Medicare pricing (outsourced to the AMA cartel) seems to have spawned a culture where otherwise intelligent people (Bob, Meccos) get basic causation completely backwards. Bob seemed sincerely to believe that increasing supply increases prices, even though the causation is precisely opposite: higher prices attract more supply.

That's interesting. I have no idea where you got that. I've been arguing time after time that area's the most doctors have the highest health care costs but the lowest doctors pay.

http://www.doctor411network.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=55
http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/manyeyes/visualizations/doctors-per-capita-by-state
http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?yr=92&typ=4&ind=596&cat=5&sub=143

5 states with most doctors (not in order)
expenditures per year pay for Gp Surgeon

NY 7600-10,300 137 185
MD 7600-10,300 155 166
NJ 7600-10,300 160 164
CA 5000-6400 164 222
MA 7600-10300 187 222

5 states with least doctors

ID 5000-6400 180 234
NV 5000-6400 180 233
OK 6400-6700 165 210
OH 6400-7600 163 222
IA 6800-7600 185 230

States with the most number of doctors per capita have much lower doctors pay than the states with the least number of doctors. Except MA which has Romneycare and surgeons in CA for some reason.

So doctors aren't "flocking", to use your word from a previous post, to the most expensive healthcare areas to make more money. They make less money in those areas. That also makes it hard to defend your assertion that a lack of doctors, because AMA constrains supply as per you, drives up health care costs. The area's with the least doctors have the lowest expenditures.

More desirable places to live attracts more doctors, not some giant macroeconomic conspiracy. Hard to believe but it's really just that simple.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 5:21am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 103

bob2356 says

So doctors aren't "flocking", to use your word from a previous post, to the most expensive healthcare areas to make more money.

When did I ever use the word "flocking"? Sometimes I think the reason you dislike me so much is because your memory drifts so badly, you're shadowboxing a phantom that exists only in your own mind.

Nevertheless, it is true that people (including doctors) do tend to move to areas where they can make more money, rather than less. For example, highly qualified doctors from India want to immigrate to America, because they can make more money here, but very few American doctors want to emigrate to India, largely because they would make less. Supply goes to where the demand is.

bob2356   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 5:47am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 104

chanakya4773 says

As a doctor you cannot just move from one state to another at your will. there are different "regulations" for different areas to practice medicine.

Of course you can move state to state at your will, who told you that you couldn't? Getting state licensing after the first time isn't difficult. I've done it for my wife 4 times. It takes a few hours of filling out forms is all. Practice isn't really different from state to state.

chanakya4773 says

now can somebody give me a no -nonsense big picture answer to why the following is happening?

I find it hard to believe this is actually a serious question. Can you think of anything being done today in medicine today that wasn't being done in 1947?

curious2   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 6:21am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 105

bob2356 says

Can you think of anything being done today in medicine today that wasn't being done in 1947?

For one thing, healthy people weren't being sold "preventive" C-T scans in 1947:

"What's new is that CT is being marketed as a preventive or proactive health care measure to healthy individuals who have no symptoms of disease. [There are] No Proven Benefits for Healthy People."

Meanwhile, in nearly all private sector fields, advancing technology has led to higher productivity and lower costs. Computers today can do all sorts of things they couldn't in 1947, yet in real terms they cost less.

bob2356   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 6:30am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 106

curious2 says

When did I ever use the word "flocking"? Sometimes I think the reason you dislike me so much is because your memory drifts so badly, you're shadowboxing a phantom that exists only in your own mind.

I don't dislike you, I just dislike your tendency to make grand paranoid rhetorical statements that you can't back up. I agree with you the system sucks, one of the biggest reasons I'm an expat. I just find your perceptions of why the system sucks, where the costs really lie, and who is driving them is so out in left field that I can't believe it. I do notice that your holy trinity of evil (government/medicare, doctors/ama, pharma) is almost never joined by insurance companies and is absolutely never joined by lawyers. I suspect I know what you do and for who.

curious2 says

Nevertheless, it is true that people (including doctors) do tend to move to areas where they can make more money, rather than less. For example, highly qualified doctors from India want to immigrate to America, because they can make more money here, but very few American doctors want to emigrate to India, largely because they would make less. Supply goes to where the demand is.

I can't believe you have the nerve to say I never admit to being wrong, (which I actually do pretty frequently) then post this. That is so lame I can't believe it. You can't be serious. So you are saying that for all your posts about supply and demand you were actually talking about foreign docs coming to America not American docs working in America? That's the causation I'm getting backwards? I'm the one "fishing for ad hominem targets"? I don't think so.

Give it up. I've given you charts, links, tables, everything you hold dear. Most doctors prefer to live in desirable areas even if they make less. Where there are more doctors than needed they drive up the cost of health care. There's lots of scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. It's especially bad in area's where docs are allowed to refer to facilities they own. A practice that is such a conflict of interest I can't believe any state allows it. Go back and read the Atlantic article again, that's just what it says. Supply and demand doesn't overcome human nature. My mind hasn't drifted, I've said this from the beginning.

BoomAndBustCycle   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 6:45am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 107

I'm fine with phasing down average Doctor's salaries... BUT, then you also have to lower the bar for entry to Med School, lower the cost of med school, lower the length of Med School.

Maybe have a Jr. Doctor... Sr. Doctor.. maybe a Jr. Doctor only needs an additional 2 years.. like a masters degree. And they can work as General Family doctors for lower pay.

The on the job training.. .REsidency for Doctor's is the most important part of training. If you want an average doctor.. you pay less... If you want a GREAT Doctor... you pay more.

bob2356   befriend   ignore   Fri, 9 Nov 2012, 6:47am PST