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Any one here have any thoughts on Intel (INTC)


By fil   Follow   Wed, 7 Nov 2012, 3:31am PST   7,790 views   112 comments
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I have traded in and out of Intel in the past with mixed results. It has a decent dividend and I think the price range is starting to look attractive? Any thoughts?

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Kevin   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 8:58am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 73

AverageBear says

Kevin says

I see you haven't answered any of the questions

There is zero chance of apple going back yo using other peoples processors.

Its a gigantic advantage over everyone else.

------------------------------------

I got many answers... Like this one. Zero chance of Apple going back to 'other's peoples processors'? Sooo, who's chip is in the MacBooks? hmm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook

Lotsa Intel mentioned in that link....

We were talking about mobile. Read the second half of that paragraph.

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 9:34am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 74

SFace says

You mean selling 6B in bonds to buy their own shares for $25 average last
year? A lot of the cash is located in foreign bank accounts that are not
moveable. They can't fund buyback or dividends without borrowing. A lot of the
stock price is supported by 45B in buybacks. A lot of it (11B added recently) is
built on debt issuance.


How much of that buyback reallty reduced the float instead of stock options
granted to employees?

------------------------------------------
I think Apple has that same problem of repatriating it's warchest too, no?

INTC's 41% payout ratio tells me it IS a cash machine. The recent $6Billion used for buybacks, has nothing to do w/ its ability to pay dividends. I'd rather see INTC spend it's $$ on Tic-Toc and dividends, and then borrow some for the buybacks. Think about it. Using the power of Intel's financials, the banks have absolute confidence in Intel. Intel is using that money to buy back shares BELOW THE COST OF THE DIVIDENT RATE. They are making/saving more money by borrowing $$ to buy back shares. It then doesn't have to pay the dividends on the shares it just gobbled up. This move....
- It reduces share count.
- It increases EPS.
- It secures a floor in the share price
- They 'get it' by buying back stock at lower stock prices - It keeps shareholders happy (shareholders = institutions, btw, that hold 60% of all outstanding shares). This borrowing of $$ to fund buybacks at extremely low cost is a no brainer. It's not a decision because of a position of weakness. It's a move from a position of strength.....

Listen, I don't deny that INTC has serious headwinds in its near term. Sqashing a bumbling AMD in the last 10 years and facing competent companies now like Qualcomm, ARM, etc are two completely different scenarios. I get that.

I've been referencing Ashraf's articles on SA, because he is the most intelligent INTC bull I have ever come across, w/ the technological chops to back up his beliefs/statements. He loves ARM and Intel, and all things 'semiconductor'. I give him full credit in my arguments here on patrick's site. On that note, here's a complete explanation of why INTC is issuing $6B to fund its buybacks (NOT DIVIDENDS) from a position of strength....

Intel's Big Buyback Will Roast The Bears...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1068981-intel-s-big-buyback-will-roast-the-bears

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 9:39am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 75

Kevin says

We were talking about mobile. Read the second half of that paragraph.

--------------------------
But wait, didn't you say x86 was dead and Apple was "COMPLETELY COMMITTED" w/ ARM? I do understand iPad/iPhone make up the majority of Apple's profits, but you can't be selective in this argument.

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 9:44am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 76

Kevin says

You really don't know what's going on, do you?


Apple already has a touch screen OS. Its called iOS and it is the second most
popular operating system on the market (windows is now a distant third).


The corporate market has already been infiltrated by apple. Its called the
iPad.


The traditional PC is becoming a niche market, and apple doesn't care about
it anymore.

-------------------------------------
Tell me something. When will Adobe CS6 get to run on an iPad? Oh yeah. You can't. Not for awhile anyway. You'll need a MacBook, a WinTel PC (notebook, lapop, desktop PC, or one of the new hybrid touch-screen tablets w/ INTC chips that can handle CS6....I do know what's going on outside, and inside corporate. And you shouldn't underestimate corporate.

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 10:10am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 77

Kevin says


And ALL or MOST of these devices will have an Intel chip in them. I predict
spreadsheets/powerpoint/database work/etc will not be done on an iPad in the
corporate environment.


They already are. When was the last time you set foot inside of a "corporate
environment"?

-----------------------------------------
Just because Apple took RIMM's lunch in smartphones the last3 years, doesn't mean they are 'dominating' corporate.

As we are seeing now, Android is now taking some (not all) of Apple's lunch in corporate smartphones. As far as iPads/Android tablets go, these are the out of office toys for the top 1% of the execs at the top of the corporate ladder. They still go to their INTC powered laptops and desktops to get work done in the office and at home. The vast majority of the 'worker bees' do not get ipads/phones that corporate pays for. I know, because I set these up and deploy ALL OF THESE DEVICES myself.

That said, I step inside a 'corporate environment' every day. I work for a multinational engineering firm w/ offices world-wide, so I talk from experience.

When will the following apps run on an iPad/iPhone, thus 'dominating corporate', in your mind??

- MS Office (Window Surface RT is irrelevant)
- Adobe Acrobat, CS6, Adobe anything?
- Anything Oracle?
- Any Business intelligence sw (Cognos/IBM, etc)
- Any AutoDesk/AutoCAD
- Any Bentely Microstation, Projectwise, etc?
- Any ESRI?
- MS SharePoint, SQL?
- Web development?
- Database Apps?
- Accounting apps?

Kevin   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 10:59am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 78

AverageBear says

Kevin says

We were talking about mobile. Read the second half of that paragraph.

--------------------------

But wait, didn't you say x86 was dead and Apple was "COMPLETELY COMMITTED" w/ ARM? I do understand iPad/iPhone make up the majority of Apple's profits, but you can't be selective in this argument.

I didn't say they were "completely committed" with ARM (check who you're quoting maybe?). What they are committed to is building their own chips, and currently they prefer ARM architecture for this. I did say that x86 is dead, because it is.

Apple are gradually winding down their traditional PC business. It could disappear tomorrow and the hit to Apple's earnings would be relatively minor. 80% of their revenue and 90% of their profits come from iOS devices. By 2015 PCs will be less than 5% of their revenue, and it won't be surprising at all if they simply stop making traditional PCs. They've already started the process of killing off their desktop and server lines.

AverageBear says

Tell me something. When will Adobe CS6 get to run on an iPad?

Never, but CS7 will be later this year. Adobe announced last year that CS7 would be shipping on ipad and android tablets in 2013. Try to keep up.

AverageBear says

ust because Apple took RIMM's lunch in smartphones the last3 years, doesn't mean they are 'dominating' corporate.

I didn't use the word "dominating". You gave examples of programs that you predict won't be done on an ipad, despite clear evidence that they are being used on an ipad RIGHT NOW. Most fortune 500 companies have deployed ipads to some set of employees. The iphone is the most commonly used device in the corporate environment (with Android devices in aggregate being the majority OS). The ship has sailed, and the present and future are in mobile devices.

AverageBear says

As we are seeing now, Android is now taking some (not all) of Apple's lunch in corporate smartphones. As far as iPads/Android tablets go, these are the out of office toys for the top 1% of the execs at the top of the corporate ladder. They still go to their INTC powered laptops and desktops to get work done in the office and at home. The vast majority of the 'worker bees' do not get ipads/phones that corporate pays for. I know, because I set these up and deploy ALL OF THESE DEVICES myself.

You are personally responsible for the 50M+ mobile devices deployed in corporate environments last year? Holy shit, you must work late.

AverageBear says

That said, I step inside a 'corporate environment' every day. I work for a multinational engineering firm w/ offices world-wide, so I talk from experience.

Cool story, bro. Me too.

AverageBear says

When will the following apps run on an iPad/iPhone, thus 'dominating corporate', in your mind??

- MS Office (Window Surface RT is irrelevant)

Probably later this year, according to rumors. Not that it matters: for most people, either Google Apps or Apple's productivity suite are more than adequate, and work on tablets today.

- Adobe Acrobat, CS6, Adobe anything?

Acrobat, maybe never (again, a creative tool for a niche audience). CS6 also never, but CS7 in late summer / early fall.

- Anything Oracle?

- Any Business intelligence sw (Cognos/IBM, etc)

The clients already work on mobile. Nobody's running the servers on their tablet, but they weren't running them on their laptops either, so it's hardly relevant.

- Any AutoDesk/AutoCAD

- Any Bentely Microstation, Projectwise, etc?

- Any ESRI?

Like I said, software for creative professionals (who are a tiny minority of office workers) will continue to use the niche machines. Some low power legacy apps are already seeing their clients ported.

- MS SharePoint, SQL?

Hopefully never.

- Web development?

What does this even mean? IDEs? Text editors? All available on Android (they can't be sold on iOS due to Apple's policies, though you can deploy them yourself if you have a developer key)

- Database Apps?

- Accounting apps?

Widely available today. Yes, even the well-known stuff like Quickbooks / peachtree.

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:04am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 79

Kevin says

They're trying to sell mobile chips in emerging markets because nobody will
buy them anywhere else. Nobody is buying them in the emerging markets
either.

-------------------------------------------------------
Nobody? Really? When you say INTC is 'trying' in emerging markets, do you mean the Lenovo's INTC-powred phones in China. You know Lenovo, currently the best-selling phone in China.

Or are you talking about the Intel-Motorola deal w/ China Mobile: the largest wireless service provider w/ 700 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS; ie, more than twice the population of the US.

Or are we talking about the Intel-powered Lava ZOLO in India?

No Intel in Google/Android? Wrong again....

......"Lenovo grew 870% in smartphones in a single year and shipped 7 million smartphones in the third quarter. Intel has also entered into agreements with Google (GOOG) to make Android and x86 more compatible. Intel has entered into a comprehensive agreement with Google's Motorola Mobility business unit. The results of that agreement are just now being recognized. Motorola has introduced the Intel-powered Razr i in Europe as a complement to the nearly identical non-Intel Razr M in the U.S.

Early this year, Intel announced several non-U.S. partners in the mobile business. One of these is Lenovo, which is in the process of passing Hewlett-Packard (HPQ) as the world's largest PC manufacturer. As such, we can assume that Lenovo and Intel have "met." Lenovo has also entered the smartphone business with some impressive results:

In last year's third quarter, the company had a 1.7% share of the market, according to Gartner.

A year later, the company was ranked second in China's smartphone market for the third quarter, with a 14.8% share. This put it right behind Samsung, which had a 16.7% share.

'We know that Lenovo is one of the strongest local companies in China,' said Gartner analyst Sandy Shen on Wednesday. 'But we just didn't expect the change to come so fast... We thought it would take them several years to grow their business in mobile devices.'

Lenovo grew 870% in smartphones in a single year and shipped 7 million smartphones in the third quarter. Intel has also entered into agreements with Google (GOOG) to make Android and x86 more compatible. Intel has entered into a comprehensive agreement with Google's Motorola Mobility business unit. The results of that agreement are just now being recognized. Motorola has introduced the Intel-powered Razr i in Europe as a complement to the nearly identical non-Intel Razr M in the U.S.

Motorola is also releasing an Intel-powered smartphone in China through China Mobile (CHL), the world's largest mobile service provider with over 700 million subscribers. Yes, that number is twice the entire population of the U.S. This phone carries the Intel Z2460 and an Intel baseband chip.

The Lava ZOLO carries Intel parts to India, another market of "interest". Orange brings Intel SoCs to the U.K. Even Russia gets some Intel smartphone parts. Not bad for a company with "no strategy."

None of these smartphones are market leaders or iPhone killers. They are mid-market, inexpensive, capable smartphones. All of these products use the Z2460 Medfield SoC. This device is a four-year-old architecture manufactured on Intel's trailing edge (but cheap) 32nm process. Next year will see 22nm, new architecture dual core SoC with 4G LTE on a chip, or nearby, with much higher performance and much lower power.

We have no idea how well these products are selling in their respective markets, and Intel will remain silent on that subject because that is what "dark horses" do. Since there is a dire shortage of 28nm devices from Taiwan Semiconductor (TSMC), what is available is going into high-end phones, primarily in the U.S. Because of the above situation, we could get a pleasant surprise regarding the international progress of Intel's mobile effort.

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-09/lenovo-to-begin-selling-smartphone-based-on-intel-mobile-chip.html

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1038641-does-intel-have-a-mobile-strategy-judge-for-yourself

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9233920/Lenovo_poised_to_top_smartphone_market_in_China_by_2013

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:13am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 80

Kevin says

You are personally responsible for the 50M+ mobile devices deployed in
corporate environments last year? Holy shit, you must work late.

-----------------------------------
Yes, I am that good.... Seriously, you questioned whether I even stepped in a 'corporate environment'. You called BS on me, and questioned my argument. Well, I deal, prep and deployed all of this shit for the last 6 years. I've deployed Blackberries, iPhones, Androids, laptops, desktop, iPhones, iPads to my 200 seat office, another 400 seat office in MA, 2 other 100+ offices in CT, a 50+ office in RI, 4 300+ offices in the NYC/NJ office, and talk to the other techs that represent the rest of our offices in the US and Canada. That said, I have some clue about the 'corporate environment', and my exposure is quite adequate, unlike your attempt at humor...

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:19am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 81

Kevin says

Widely available today. Yes, even the well-known stuff like Quickbooks /
peachtree.

----------------------------------------
Oh yes I forgot. Fortune 500 companies go straight to Quickbooks and Peachtree for their accounting needs. hahaaa. PFFT. I guess Intel has everything to fear on that front....

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:27am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 82

Kevin says


Anything Oracle?

- Any Business intelligence sw (Cognos/IBM,
etc)


The clients already work on mobile. Nobody's running the servers on their
tablet, but they weren't running them on their laptops either, so it's hardly
relevant.

------------------------------------------------------
Are you saying all accounting department's users have an ipad or tablet or iphone/android on their desks to do their #-crunching all day from 9-5? I've seen the accountants I work with play with their ARM-based toys during their smoke-breaks, but then go back to their drudgery at their desks, toilling all day on their INTC-based laptops and desktops.

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:39am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 83

Kevin says


Tell me something. When will Adobe CS6 get to run on an iPad?


Never, but CS7 will be later this year. Adobe announced last year that CS7
would be shipping on ipad and android tablets in 2013. Try to keep up.

------------------------------------------
Welll, I haven't personally installed CS7 yet, but I doubt my company will pay for an iPad for someone that will need to run CS7. Maybe the'mahogany row' execs will get a few. These execs represent about 1-2% of our company's workforce. I can tell you that at least 20% of all PCs (whether laptop or desktop) will be replaced by (yet another) intel-based laptop/desktop, for the remaining 98% of the 'worker bees'..... x86 is dead indeed...

Kevin   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:54am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 84

we actually do know how many x86 devices have shipped, since android apps track them: fewer than 250,000 out of more than 200m android devices sold last year.

And, no, obviously not everybody is using iPads in the office every day. The point is that the trend is PCs being replaced by phones and tablets for many workers. The apps in question are already available and people are using them.

What happens at your company is utterly irrelevant. You work in an IT department? Who gives a shit. I actually write some of the apps we are talking about, and we can see where the demand is.

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:55am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 85

Kevin says

I didn't say they were "completely committed" with ARM (check who you're quoting
maybe?).

----------------------------
My bad. SFace said this, and thought it was you...

Kevin   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 3:01pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 86

SFace says

They are commited with ARM for tablets and Phones and they are not going back. They can't for the mac yet as ARM based prodessor underperform vs. Intel. I am certain Apple is looking at a non-Intel based Mac in the future.

From the looks of it, it's more likely that any future mac will just be an ipad with an attached keyboard. Just look at what has happened to OSX over the last two versions.

More likely, the mac line will just disappear, since apple isn't particularly interested in the creative professional niche any more.

AverageBear   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 10:32pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 87

Kevin says

What happens at your company is utterly irrelevant. You work in an IT
department? Who gives a shit. I actually write some of the apps we are talking
about, and we can see where the demand is.

---------------------------------------------
WOW... Condescension so thick, you can cut it with a fork. Yeah, so you work higher up the chain in the IT world than I do. I guess I should stop defending INTC because I'm arguing w/ a developer. Oooooooh. I should just stop and kneel down and wait for more pearls of wisdom, shaking in anticipation. So you are a developer in a country of 300 million. Who gives a shit? Your opinions don't seem to go beyond what's happening outside the US.

So you think my workplace is niche, INTC will scale down and be a dwarf of it's former self? And x86 will die.

Aaaand you think "NOBODY" (your words) will work with INTC. Aaaand all PCs will be replaced w/ phones/tablets.

Well, guess what. While your current occupation caters to the 300 million Americans (I'm guessing here, so take it with a grain of salt), INTC is making deals w/ phone and tablet makers that are catering to the 3 BILLION person markets in China and India.

You don't know, or care to mention that although PC sales are slipping, the server/datacenter group is making up some of the losses w/ very good growth. You don't mention the deals that INTC is making w/ Facebook, Google and other companies that dominate the 'net. You don't seem to mention the growing server farm market that INTC will be catering to, that will run your code. You don't WANT to acknowledge that INTC is in fact growing in the mobile market in developing nations w/ 8-10x the population of the US, and that x86 exists in the European mobile market in the form of Motorola and others. And you don't want to even acknowledge that INTC WILL be making modems, taking away some market share from QCOM. It's gonna happen.....Tell me, you think Glo-Flo, TSMC and Samsung are going to back-engineer anything below 14nm that's coming out of Intel? Tri-Gate? When the power efficiencies and processing power is demanded at this level and lower and in massive quantities, I think these foundries are fucked. Go ahead and search the 'net, and see if anyone can get to the same levels at INTC's Tri-Gate, w/ the same dimensions and power requirements. It may not be needed now, but INTC sees this day coming. Just because you see INTC slipping now, doesn't mean they aren't planning for the future.

In your tunnel vision of your US-based bubble of thought, you think INTC will die off, luring investors w/ decent dividends, to financial catastrophe.

I see INTC as more of a threat to ARM's turf in mobile, more than ARM's threat in the low-power server/datacenter space. I see and confirm that INTC is pushing it's way into mobile in markets that dwarf the US. I see x86 in Motorola, Lenovo and Android platforms. I guess you ignore these facts (maybe because they exist outside of our borders?). You think INTC doesn't even exist in mobile outside of our borders in the growing mobile market. Well you are wrong.

I don't have a beef w/ ARM, Apple, or Qualcomm. These are great companies. You seem to have a pure hatred for INTC/x86 that is blinding you as an investor. As a DGI investor, I like the size and innovation of Intel, as well as the growing dividends. But when I hear an egotistically blinded developer that thinks INTC only by what he CURRENTLY sees in the US, I laugh.

Good luck w/ your investments. I'll take my chances w/ Intel, one of 25 companies I'm invested in, that are currently growing their dividends.

Kevin   Tue, 22 Jan 2013, 2:30am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 88

Actually, I mentioned intels strengths in the data center in my first reply.

But servers can't make up for all the lost revenues in the desktop segment. Not even close.

I don't write apps for the US market, by the way. The US isn't even our primary focus.

I don't hate Intel. Im actually rooting for them to get their shit together with a legitimate competitor to ARM. I just believe that they are seriously misguided with their religious devotion to x86.

Further more, even if Intel can manage to produce something better than arm, its not relevant because neither Samsung nor apple will buy from them. In other words, they have no chance on 90% of mobile devices.

This is about whether Intel is a good investment, not personal feelings about hardware.

AverageBear   Thu, 24 Jan 2013, 10:52am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 89

Kevin says

Actually, I mentioned intels strengths in the data center in my first reply.

But servers can't make up for all the lost revenues in the desktop segment. Not even close.

I don't write apps for the US market, by the way. The US isn't even our primary focus.

I don't hate Intel. Im actually rooting for them to get their shit together with a legitimate competitor to ARM. I just believe that they are seriously misguided with their religious devotion to x86.

Further more, even if Intel can manage to produce something better than arm, its not relevant because neither Samsung nor apple will buy from them. In other words, they have no chance on 90% of mobile devices.

This is about whether Intel is a good investment, not personal feelings about hardware.

------------------
Are we talking about 90% of the 300 million US Market , or the 3 billion person markets of China/India? from what I've read, INTC is in Lenovo, Google's Motorola and in the European Razr...Lenovo may be less relevant here in the US, but is a "Beast in the East" so to speak...Google is already running x86 in some of its stuff already. I think we will see more...

Kevin   Thu, 24 Jan 2013, 11:29am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 90

The x86 moto phone hasn't been released yet. Neither moto nor lenovo has committed to anything but one device for x86.

Samsung and apple combined represent about 90% of worldwide smartphone sales. Not just the us. Its actually somewhat less in the us since moto and HTC do a bit better here.

thomaswong.1986   Thu, 24 Jan 2013, 11:37am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 91

Kevin says

And, no, obviously not everybody is using iPads in the office every day. The point is that the trend is PCs being replaced by phones and tablets for many workers. The apps in question are already available and people are using them.

As a corp Accounting dept Controller.. I see 8 desk tops.. that is the only access points I have to worry about to our Financial information .. many countless managers and staffers in Accounting and IT support dept.. it isnt desirable who are responsible and accountable for security. The past thing we want to worry about is rouge access to our systems. In public companies the bar is even higher !

What one shills in SW engineer disconnected from real business world ..tries to promote doesnt go very far.

Forget about it... not going to happen.

Kevin   Thu, 24 Jan 2013, 11:57am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 92

People said the same thing about mainframes. How's that working out?

Apple and Samsung have BOTH reported more mobile devices sold than the entire PC market for last quarter.

Dead. Dead. Dead.

AverageBear   Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 11:40pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 93

Kevin says

Apple and Samsung have BOTH reported more mobile devices sold than the entire
PC market for last quarter.


Dead. Dead. Dead.

---------------------------------------------------
yes, ARM dominates mobile for now. However, I wouldn't count INTC out. We all know how quickly the average consumer goes through a cell/smartphone (what, every 18-24 months). There's plenty of 'churn' for INTC to gradually gain more wins, as more designs get refreshed.

However, outside of mobile, there are some 'rumblings' worth noting, that I think many "Street Analysts" haven't focused on. And in particular, I'm talking about the Cisco deal...

(Culled from an SA article's comment section, which I think is relavent)......

....."I think a lot of folks are missing how important the Cisco deal is. The smartphone market is actually small compared to the overall penetration of ARM processors in products. In terms of products with processors in them, INTC and x86 in computers is actually a very small part of global processor consumption. In fact, the laser like focus on smartphone and INTC penetration into that segment is like missing the forest for the trees.

The fact that INTC is supplanting ARM in Cisco products is indicative of a paradigm shift in x86 versus ARM. If INTC can now sell its products to markets traditionally out of its reach due to the power characteristics of x86, the size of the potential markets opened is enormous. Cisco routers and INTC set top boxes reveal that INTC is now reaching an inflection point where it is just starting to obtain access to those markets. ".....

AverageBear   Sat, 26 Jan 2013, 12:24am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 94

...I also think some of that 50% under-utilized capacity (that INTC detractors are crowing about), will be going towards chips destined for Cisco HW, and other deals we don't know about...

Kevin   Sat, 26 Jan 2013, 4:39am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 95

X86 in high end networking gear (Cisco has effectively abandoned home networking with the sale of Linksys) isn't going to replace a meaningful portion of desktop PC revenue.

Set top boxes are irrelevant. The video game and cable companies are all migrating to using smartphones and tablets for content. Comcast can already be used entirely over IP via tablet or Xbox.

Intel itself may survive for a very long time, but they won't be the giant that they have been. That's why I don't think they're a good long term investment. Nobody will be willing to pay $50+ just for the CPU anymore.

AverageBear   Fri, 22 Feb 2013, 5:14am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 96

Kevin says

Further more, even if Intel can manage to produce something better than arm,
its not relevant because neither Samsung nor apple will buy from them. In other
words, they have no chance on 90% of mobile devices.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Why wouldn't Apple buy from Intel? Apple is already using their chips in their high-end MacBooks. I understand your argument that you think Apple will abandon MacBooks, or the laptop market altogether. But my point is that Apple is already in bed w/ Intel for awhile. If they were that disgusted w/ Intel, they would have stopped doing business together for awhile now... Knowing the pile of cash Apple has created the last 3-5 years, you'd think they'd pull the trigger, and cut Intel off. But they haven't... Why?

Why should Apple care what profit margins that Intel makes by using their components? If Apple sees Intel as the company w/ the best components at the best price, and can deliver them w/o disrupting Apple's supply/production chain, why would they give a shit what Intel makes in profits?

Samsung won't do business w/ Intel, because it's obvious they have their own foundries. I get that. But Apple? C'mon....

I can't understand your mentality that 'everyone that buys from Intel hates Intel'... Well, why does every business that stuffs their equipment into datacenters buys from Intel year after year after year?

You describe the companies that Intel deals with, as disgusted ex-girlfriends. They are businesses, and only care about profit, making sales #'s, etc. You paint a picture as if there's some moral dilemma that Intel isn't entitled to enjoy the high margins they've worked for........ If Intel makes the best chip/product at the best price, why should companies care about their margins? Who are they gonna go to? And if they did want to take their business elsewhere, why haven't they done so already?

FortWayne   Fri, 22 Feb 2013, 7:13am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 97

Do they even have competition? I'm not familiar with that market, so I can't really invest in something I don't understand that well. But I've heard a lot of good about them.

AverageBear   Sun, 24 Feb 2013, 10:12am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 98

SFace says

Intel pissed away a lot of their cash buying a shitload of shares at $25. As
a shareholder, you should be pissed.

---------------------------------------------------------
I'm actually thrilled they went through with the buyback. Well, of course I'd love INTC to initiate a buyback at $19.30, or whatever the 52-week low # is. But that's almost impossible to predict. At $25, it's roughly in the middle of the 52 week low and high, so I can't complain. Not the best price, and certainly not the worst. In fact, w/ down #'s for 2012, for INTC to continue w/ their buyback programs tells me of the complete confidence this company has in its products and execution.

As I mentioned before in this thread, the $6 Billion buyback does a number of positive things...

- It reduces share count.
- It increases EPS.
- It secures a floor in the share price
- They 'get it' by buying back stock at lower stock prices - It keeps shareholders happy (shareholders = institutions, btw, that hold 60% of all outstanding shares). This borrowing of $$ to fund buybacks at extremely low cost is a no brainer. It's not a decision because of a position of weakness. It's a move from a position of strength..... You do know the borrowing costs of 2.5% is less than the dividend of 4 - 4.3%.... They are actually saving $$ by not having to pay the dividend of those shares it's buying back. For INTC, this buyback is like killing 3-4 birds with one stone....