What happens to employees


By CL   Follow   Thu, 8 Nov 2012, 9:50am   2,353 views   35 comments
In Emeryville CA 94608   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

if an employer DOES drop their insurance, either due to fears of Obamacare or simply due to rising costs? Do the employees pick up their own insurance?

Don't employers offer insurance as a retention strategy anyway, a perk?

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  1. zzyzzx


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    1   6:00pm Fri 9 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    CL says

    Don't employers offer insurance as a retention strategy anyway, a perk?

    When unemployment is this high, you don't need a retention strategy.

  2. everything


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    2   6:14pm Fri 9 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Um, no!, lol. Unless your a big shot. I know guys who are in their 50's, and 60's paying $600 a month for man and wife. It's the law you have to offer an insurance plan or plans. At Walmart for example they just make sure they are working you part time. If you are part time they do not have to offer you health insurance. A friend who recently started working at Walmart told them he does not want it, gets it through his wife's job, so they let him work 40 hours now.
    I could be a little off on what I say here, I know the laws may change, I hear more employers will go to part time employees so they do not have to offer health care benefits.

  3. zzyzzx


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    3   6:46pm Fri 9 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    everything says

    I know guys who are in their 50's, and 60's paying $600 a month for man and wife.

    Sadly, if they are in their 60's they are getting it cheap or have really high deductibles.

  4. APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch


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    4   10:44am Sun 11 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (5)   Dislike (1)  

    All of the US will be laid off and rehired as part-timers.

    Anything that requires full-time attention will be shipped to China, a slave state in which workers can be annihilated by the army whenever it becomes convenient to the business owner, which is God's plan.

  5. CL


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    5   9:38am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    How are premiums calculated? If premiums are going up, why wouldn't the insurers just always have charged more, since they could?

  6. CaptainShuddup


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    6   2:04pm Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    CL says

    Don't employers offer insurance as a retention strategy anyway, a perk?

    I like to watch HR people's jaw drop when I inform them that me paying $1400 a month is hardly a Benefit to me. Especially when I can coverage on the open market for cheaper.

    American company benefits are like being couped up in a car on a long road trip with Rossie Odonald as she wolfs down Boiled shrimp and deviled eggs.

    It stinks!

    What 401K worth less than it was 5 years ago
    Insurance premiums that go up every year, while you take pay cuts.
    Then if you're lucky you'll be laid off 2 years before retirement.
    But you get that HCSA though, gotta love that, your money in the bank that you have to ask permission to spend.

    Yay America, way to fuck the team.

  7. Suburban Gal


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    7   8:04am Sat 17 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    CL says

    What happens to employees if an employer DOES drop their insurance, either due to fears of Obamacare or simply due to rising costs? Do the employees pick up their own insurance?

    It appears, based on a myriad of news articles as of late, that more employers are are giving employees a fixed amount of money to cover or help cover a health insurance plan of their chosice, a plan the employees feel meets their individual needs better than plans that are traditionally offered to employees based on agreed upon coverage between the employer and health insurance companies. It's called defined contribution. This is something a lot of smaller businesses do for their employees since they can't afford to provide health insurance for them, but it seems that defined contribution is starting to appeal to medium and and large businesses as well. Sears Holdings and Darden Concepts have chosen to start going the defined contribution route.

  8. elliemae


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    8   2:21pm Sat 17 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Yay America, way to fuck the team.

    More like, Yay Wall Street! Since medicine is for profit, they can charge whatever the hell they want.

    Companies that offer insurance will continue to do so. The way to retain good employees is to offer good benefits. There's so much hype about Obamacare it's crazy. It will cover more people and allow them to be healthier.

    You know, like Romney's horse. Except not as well cared for.

  9. Suburban Gal


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    9   8:12am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    elliemae says

    Companies that offer insurance will continue to do so. The way to retain good employees is to offer good benefits.

    Actually, healthcare coverage comprises just one of many benefits that's offered to employees.

    If they really wanted to do away with it and move to defined contribution while leaving the other benefits intact, then I don't think that's something that would hurt them in terms of hiring and retention. I think the employees would probably liked defined contribution a lot better and it'd help save employers in the long run.

  10. errc


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    10   8:27am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CL says

    How are premiums calculated? If premiums are going up, why wouldn't the insurers just always have charged more, since they could?

    By age, gender, and wether or not you smoke

    Sounds like some solid risk assessment, NOT

    Dietary and lifestyle inputs don't seem to matter when it comes to paying ones fair share, even though they are the main driving forces that determine your health

    Biggest. Boondoggle. Ever

  11. errc


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    11   8:31am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    elliemae says

    CaptainShuddup says

    Yay America, way to fuck the team.

    More like, Yay Wall Street! Since medicine is for profit, they can charge whatever the hell they want.

    Companies that offer insurance will continue to do so. The way to retain good employees is to offer good benefits. There's so much hype about Obamacare it's crazy. It will cover more people and allow them to be healthier.

    You know, like Romney's horse. Except not as well cared for.

    Allow them to be healthier??!

    Care to elaborate? Because it seems to me that the collective will certainly be less healthy as a result,,,,

    But at least now my labor will be able to fund the 33+ million mericans that "need" their aderal and all the fat, unhealthy folk that take their macronutrient reccos from the usfedgov.

  12. Buster


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    12   8:42am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Suburban Gal says

    I think the employees would probably liked defined contribution a lot better and it'd help save employers in the long run.

    Business can typically negotiate MUCH better plans at a cheaper rate than individuals currently can. This is why it is typically much more attractive joining an employers plan vs shopping for a private policy. This is tough even for very healthy individuals to say nothing of the hell one has to go through if one has a pre-existing condition. I am a very healthy 50 year old with ZERO pre-existing conditions other than my age.

    Shopping for a health plan in the US was an eye opener. My plan cost $800/month for me and my spouse with a $5,000 deductible and somewhat spotty coverage. Now that I have taken a full time job with benefits my out of pocket insurance premium for both of us is

  13. CaptainShuddup


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    13   8:43am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    More like, Yay Wall Street! Since medicine is for profit, they can charge whatever the hell they want.

    No I blame Ameicans for making it all possible. For taking shitty jobs, based on the Employer based insurance scam alone. When if they weren't so fucking lazy all they have to do, is just apply to open market insurance companies and they would realize what a scam it really is.

  14. Buster


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    14   8:48am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Hmmm, the rest of my comment was cut off, so will add here:

    My insurance with my job cost me $

  15. lostand confused


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    15   8:48am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    Luckily I have very good health and rarely use my health insurance.

    But I was out jogging once and was talking to a friend behind me and turned back and ran into a stiff branch. Lots of blood, but was able to get to my car just fine. Friend kept telling me to go to ER, or else said she would come over and take me there. So I decided to go to the Urgent care near me. They looked at the insurance and then did a bunch of tests. It looked like I had a broken nose. Initially the doctor said I was ok , but said to go to the ER and get a CAT brain scan. I really didn't see the point as it was the nose that connected with the branch and they had already done a radiograph at the urgent care. But they said I if I had brain injury, I could be dead in a day. This was a few days after Liam Neeson's wife died from that ski injury. So decided to go-mind you, this they only said after they looked at my insurance and then they set me up with their horpital/branch ER.

    So go to ER and they make me wait for a couple opf hours with a whole bunch of families there. I guess if you say emergency and go to the ER , you have to treat, so I was stuck with the masses-regardless of insurance. The girl at the front kept asking why I needed a scan-I said I have no clue -your doctor at the other place sent me here. Then she got my insurance and set me up for the scan right away.

    Had that and then the doctor came and explained to me that I was ok and asked me what kind of insurance I had-which was surprising. he actually took my insurance card and looked at it -maybe wanted to see if it was real?-then said he knew a plastic surgeon who would do a nice procedure and that I had to go fast else after a certain number of days, it would be difficult. He suggested I get it done or else some other complications may arise and threw out some medical terms.

    So I make an appt with the plastic surgeon, who explains the procedure. Of course they took my insurance card and sent a pre authorization request. Apparently they would have to break my nose again and then set it again according to the shape I wanted. I had visions of Michael jackson's nose falling off and I hightailed it out of there.

    Finally I got my bill-or bills. one would think that them being a single hospital, you would get a single bill-nope got four different bills. Without insurance, it would be $6,000+ and the insuarance negotiated rate knocked it down close to 1,500+ and i paid about 150 bucks of that. mind you-they did nothing except bandage it.

    I think they are a bunch of vultures, who try and bilk as much as possible from the insurance companies. I shudder to think how much fraud there must be in medicare.

  16. Buster


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    16   8:49am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Give up as this is not taking my full comments....not sure why....

  17. elliemae


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    17   10:12am Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)   Protected  

    errc says

    1)Allow them to be healthier??! 2) But at least now my labor will be able to fund the 33+ million mericans that "need" their aderal and all the fat, unhealthy folk that take their macronutrient reccos from the usfedgov.

    1) Having healthcare coverage means that people will have the opportunity to get regular checkups and preventative care. This translates into healthier people because they will have the opportunity to treat conditions before they become critical, require admissions to the hospital and rack up huge bills.

    2) Your tax dollars are already subsidizing the people who use the ER as treatment for any disease. People must be seen regardless of their ability to pay (ER), meaning that a condition that could have been treated at an MD office or urgent care is seen in the ER instead (the other options require insurance or cash up front). The hospitals receive grants to treat nonfunded patients, as well as the ability to write off losses based on the total bill & not the actual costs.

    For example, if a patient on the medical floor costs the hospital $150/day and is billed $5,000/day, the tax benefit is $5,000 per day rather than the lesser amount. Insurance would have approved around $300/day (with the patient responsible for copays & deductibles), so non-funded patients aren't exactly the burden that hospitals claim that they are.

    Unfortunately, the healthcare bill will benefit big insurance by requiring people to buy their product. They will continue to attempt to deny benefits, which needs to be addressed in further detail.

  18. Suburban Gal


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    18   4:43pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    Your tax dollars are already subsidizing the people who use the ER as treatment for any disease. People must be seen regardless of their ability to pay (ER),...

    Not necessarily. I know of some cases where people have actually been turned away from the ER because they have no health insurance.

  19. curious2


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    19   4:52pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    elliemae says

    preventative care....tax dollars are already subsidizing....

    Elliemae, I like you and I liked part of your comment but the myths of preventive care and cost shifting are not worthy of you. Services marketed as "preventive care" do not save money, in fact they are often a total waste and sometimes injurious:

    "What's new is that CT is being marketed as a preventive or proactive health care measure to healthy individuals who have no symptoms of disease [but there are] No Proven Benefits for Healthy People."

    Also, the cost-shifting myth is a red herring. You're right that hospitals overcharge the uninsured, but even counting that uninsured patients unable to pay their bills amount to 2% of total spending. Subsidizing mandatory insurance will cost much more than that. And, as you mentioned, insurers will continue to deny benefits, so the original problem of cost-shifting is not solved, it's magnified.

  20. mmmarvel


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    20   4:59pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Suburban Gal says

    more employers are are giving employees a fixed amount of money to cover or help cover a health insurance plan of their chosice, a plan the employees feel meets their individual needs better than plans that are traditionally offered to employees based on agreed upon coverage between the employer and health insurance companies. It's called defined contribution.

    Ahhh, but the newest bug in the pudding is that the federal government now is the ultimate arbitrator as to IF your health insurance is good enough. You are no longer able to pick and choose, for example your health insurance plan MUST include free birth control, even if you are a single male on it or a single 60 or 70 year old woman. Letting the feds in wasn't just a bad idea, it was/is a horrible idea.

  21. mmmarvel


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    21   5:03pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Suburban Gal says

    I know of some cases where people have actually been turned away from the ER because they have no health insurance.

    If the condition/problem isn't life threatening, then the ER are not required to treat you. They will evaluate you, to make sure that if you're denied that they can't be sued. But if you are uninsured and you have a severe back ache ... once it has been determined that whatever is causing your pain doesn't appear that it will kill you, they send you home.

  22. Bellingham Bill


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    22   6:37pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    lostand confused says

    I shudder to think how much fraud there must be in medicare.

    Medicare + Medicaid is $3200 per man, woman, and child in this country:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=cWh

    That's Japan's TOTAL health care cost, and Israel comes in well under it.

    But that's "socialist" so we can't have that.

  23. Suburban Gal


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    23   7:06pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    mmmarvel says

    You are no longer able to pick and choose, for example your health insurance plan MUST include free birth control, even if you are a single male on it or a single 60 or 70 year old woman.

    Health insurance companies, under Obamacare, MUST make birth control FREE to anyone who wants it. If you're a single male or senior citizen who doesn't require birth control, then you won't be asking for it through your insurance company. The same goes for anyone who is anti-birth control.

  24. Bellingham Bill


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    24   7:09pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Suburban Gal says

    Health insurance companies, under Obamacare, MUST make birth control FREE to anyone who wants it. I

    and it should be said that rational, economic-oriented insurance companies are not complaining about this, since the cost of "free" birth control for all who want it is a lot less than the cost of pregnancy care.

    One of the big changes that PPACA did do was eliminate the pricing difference between men and women. This is odd, and did hit my pocketbook directly, but evens out for married couples so whatever.

  25. Bellingham Bill


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    25   7:12pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Suburban Gal says

    I know of some cases where people have actually been turned away from the ER because they have no health insurance.

    ER is not for cancer, no. Mandated ER care is just stabilizing life-threatening conditions, not actually treating anything.

    We have the worst healthcare system in the world. A national shame. PPACA is a 10-15% incremental step in the right direction at least.

  26. Suburban Gal


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    26   7:19pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    mmmarvel says

    You are no longer able to pick and choose, for example your health insurance plan MUST include free birth control, even if you are a single male on it or a single 60 or 70 year old woman.

    And what about health insurance plans that have maternity, fertility, and sterlization coverage? While a single guy or senior citizen may never need to make use of those things, someone else will. Whether it's your married co-worker who has a hard time conceiving with his wife or the single co-worker who just got pregnant, they wil. What about autism coverage? While someone like myself may never make use of those things, someone else will. Whether it's a single parent with an autistic child or married parents who have an autistic child, they will. My individual plan through Assurant Health covers mammography. While men covered under my plan will not have use for it, I and any other woman covered under it will.

    Health insurance plans cover a myriad of things to meet the needs of different people because more than one person is buying into that insurance plan. That's just how it works.

    And other than the preventative side of coverage, you hope to God you never have to use anything else, like in the event you should require a transplant or reconstructive surgery, but it's there should you or someone else ever need it.

  27. elliemae


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    27   8:36pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    curious2 says

    Services marketed as "preventive care" do not save money, in fact they are often a total waste and sometimes injurious...

    Sorry - you and I view preventative care as two different things. I am referring to the ability to see a physician for regular visits, so that the MD can provide care, take a history and compare changes between visits. People go to the ER for very high blood pressure and are often admitted - yet if they had been able to see a physician long before that the condition could have been addressed with medications.

    Preventative care also refers to pap smears, colonoscopies, mammos, and many other tests that can catch conditions long before the become critical. I did not say "full body CT's" because I was referring to physical checkups and blood tests if warranted. If a serious condition is suspected, perhaps a CT or MRI is warranted. But not just for fun.

    I have a healthcare condition that requires physician visits at least every 4-6 months, medications, and frequent blood tests. I'm fortunate enough to have health insurance, although I pay a shitload of out-of-pocket costs for my treatment. I, unlike many of my patients, do not have to choose between purchasing medications or food (or keeping the lights on). Without the health insurance, I would be totally screwed. And all of this is considered to be non-emergent, meaning that I wouldn't be treated if I went to the ER. I would be referrred to my primary physician whether or not I had one - or had the ability to pay for one.

    Suburban Gal says

    And other than the preventative side of coverage, you hope to God you never have to use anything else, like in the event you should require a transplant or reconstructive surgery, but it's there should you or someone else ever need it.

    Well said.

    Suburban Gal says

    I know of some cases where people have actually been turned away from the ER because they have no health insurance.

    ER's are, by design, supposed to treat emergencies. So people are evaluated and turned away every day. The sad thing is that conditions that could have been treated but weren't due to lack of insurance can - and do - become critical. I've witnessed people die due to this practice.

    The worst one was a young man with an infected gallbladder that ended up killing him. He was about 25 or so, turned away from several ER's until he was brought in septic and died.

    Healthcare should never, ever be an option. Single payer would be the ideal - but as long as we elect people and provide them with insurance that's substantially better than the rest of us, they won't understand what it's like to not have adequate medical care.

  28. zzyzzx


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    28   7:23am Mon 19 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    lostand confused says

    I think they are a bunch of vultures, who try and bilk as much as possible from the insurance companies. I shudder to think how much fraud there must be in medicare.

    I agree. Was any of the treatment actually necessary?

    Seems to be that all the medical care providers seem to be referring people to the ER unnecessarily. That and when I watch TV shows like "Surf & Rescue : Dewey Beach" (or some other beach) they automatically call an ambulance and send everyone to the ER.

    Last time someone told me to go to the ER, because of an infection, I bought antibiotics off eBay instead and just took them for about 3 weeks and I was fine after that. I spent $100 vs what a hospital stay would have cost me, just because they wanted to treat me the most expensive way possible (with an antibiotic IV, which would have worked quicker, but cost thousands). Instead I used my brain and searched the internet for an alternative which said that you really only need to go to a hospital if taking oral antibiotics for a month doesn't work. Knowing that no local doctor would prescribe that for me, I went the eBay route.

  29. Suburban Gal


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    29   1:17pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    lostand confused says

    I think they are a bunch of vultures, who try and bilk as much as possible from the insurance companies. I shudder to think how much fraud there must be in medicare.

    That may be true in regards to some healthcare providers, but not all. (There are many honest providers out there.) I think it's the insurance companies that people really need to watch out for. They're in business to make money, not lose money.

  30. mmmarvel


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    30   2:56pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Suburban Gal says

    Health insurance companies, under Obamacare, MUST make birth control FREE to anyone who wants it. If you're a single male or senior citizen who doesn't require birth control, then you won't be asking for it through your insurance company. The same goes for anyone who is anti-birth control.

    But the plan MUST include it. You can't say, excuse me, I really don't need that benefit in my plan, can I get a slightly reduced premium for not needing/wanting it? Nope, we're going to make sure that anyone who wants it, gets it, and YOU get to help pay for it to make sure they will be able to get it.

  31. Bellingham Bill


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    31   3:03pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    mmmarvel says

    and YOU get to help pay for it to make sure they will be able to get it.

    thing is, contraception is a LOT cheaper than pregnancy and well-baby care.

    So it's a win-win and the only people opposing this are religious nutjobs.

    30% of the population, alas.

  32. mmmarvel


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    32   3:04pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Suburban Gal says

    Health insurance plans cover a myriad of things to meet the needs of different people because more than one person is buying into that insurance plan. That's just how it works.

    Insurance should be (and is in other areas of life, like how much insurance do you want to carry on that necklace) a plan that you can choose the coverage and based on your choices, pay for what you want. While car insurance has a base line (typically set by the state) you can add to that base/minimum coverage if you need/want to. As a male (and one over 55) I will never want/need birth control; I hear there is a requirement that the plans cover Viagra, while I hope to never need to use Viagra, I don't think other people should be helping to pay for my use of it. If a person wants to purchase a health plan that covers Viagra or birth control, then they should pay extra to the insurance company to have that in the plan, not force all of us to have higher premiums to include a benefit that we don't want/won't use.

  33. Peter P


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    33   3:13pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    We need universal healthcare to take burden off employees and employers alike.

    I do not mind plans covering birth control. In fact, I think birth control ought to be strongly encouraged.

  34. Suburban Gal


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    34   4:32pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Peter P says

    I do not mind plans covering birth control. In fact, I think birth control ought to be strongly encouraged.

    I couldn't agree more.

  35. elliemae


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    35   7:24pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    zzyzzx says

    Last time someone told me to go to the ER, because of an infection, I bought antibiotics off eBay instead and just took them for about 3 weeks and I was fine after that. I spent $100 vs what a hospital stay would have cost me, just because they wanted to treat me the most expensive way possible (with an antibiotic IV, which would have worked quicker, but cost thousands). Instead I used my brain and searched the internet for an alternative which said that you really only need to go to a hospital if taking oral antibiotics for a month doesn't work. Knowing that no local doctor would prescribe that for me, I went the eBay route

    There are so many fake meds that are for sale on the interwebs it's crazy. Not only that, but failure to treat an infection appropriately is what has led to the MRSA epidemic that exists in our country.

    It really depends upon the infection, and any comorbidities you might have. Google/ebay don't replace a good MD.

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