WatchThis question goes out to all the people who actually believe that gay sex is immoral. I am formally challenging that belief. If any of you honestly believe that gay sex is immoral, give your reasons here. I reserve the right to challenge the validity of those reasons.
Attendance by Bap33 is mandatory. By the way, that avatar is pretty gay for someone who's homophobic.
Just saying...
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To answer the question, gay sex is immoral because the mere thought of male/male coupling gives me a raging hard on, and I'm afraid to find out why. Does anyone know of a good endocronologist? Preferably male,,,tall, muscular, with long hair,,,,
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rdm says
It depends on the lesbians involved.
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two consenting adults having sex is nobody's business
two consenting adults want to get married, it's nobody's business
for the government to limit the rights of some ,so it makes others feel more comfortable is unconstitutional.
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It's immoral because it is. Look up what morality means.
Oh, heck. I'll get you started.
If someone says homosexuality is immoral because they get their morals from an old book, and that's what the book says, then they're right. Within the context of their moral system, of course. That doesn't mean there's anything unethical going on with homosexuality, under your moral system.
Ethics are philosophical consequences derived from value-based premises. They can be rooted in religious premises, but they can also be rooted in other premises. The value systems that ethics stem from matter a great deal in determining if common moral understanding can be reached. But those premises can be arbitrarily arbitrary, and vary from culture to culture and from person to person.
It's a little reductionist to say that all morality boils down to opinion, but it's essentially correct. And opinions are like assholes.
If you seek to debate morality of homosexuality, you need to stake out some rules of engagement. I'd recommend picking a secular (common-ground) ethical framework to circumscribe your debate. Otherwise, everyone is right, and everyone else is wrong.
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whittaker says
If it were necessary for human babies to eat their mothers excrement in order to introduce bacteria essential for survival into their own digestive system as it is for elephants, then yes. If it were necessary for humans to digest food twice to extract the nutrition like it is for many herbivores, then yes.
However, your comments are simply a Straw Man argument. No one has claimed that an action is moral simply because other species in nature do it. The argument that the religious often make is that homosexuality is immoral because it is unnatural. Showing that homosexuality is common in nature disproves the false argument presented by the religious.
Once again, what few arguments for claiming that homosexual acts are immoral have been easily disproved by ample counter examples. I'm not even being intellectually challenged here. Through me some argument that at least requires a micron of thought to discredit.
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I think morality is subjective.
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This thread is great. Here is what I learned...
If something bad happens to someone in my religion, that is god testing their faith.
If something happens to one of my enemies, that is god punishing them for their sins.
If I don't like something, then it is immoral and should be banned. Otherwise, someone might do it in front of the children and then my children will be doing it. Think of the children. It must be immoral in order to save the children.
In other news of circular logic: gay sex is immoral. Therefore, if we allow gay sex, we will then allow bestiality. Therefore, it is a slippery slope, and gay sex is immoral.
Gay people have a square penis.
Dan is smarter than most of the adversaries that he hooked into this debate. Bap seems to be smart enough to generally agree to disagree and avoid the debate.
Prostate exams are or maybe should be immoral.
Some people still think that homosexuality is a psychological disease.
Does that pretty much sum it up or did I miss something?
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mmmarvel says
Perhaps, but I prefer to hold people accountable for their actions in the here and now.
The bottom line is that gay sex/gay relations has absolutely zero impact on the person not participating. There is simply not a single valid compelling reason to deny a whole class of people their civil rights. So in the end, what you think of me and what you think of gay sex is none of my business.
Back to the here and now, I would like to leave you with this;
Before you speak to me about your religion, first show it to me in how you treat other people
Before you tell me how much you love your God, show me in how much you love all His children.
Before you preach to me of your passion for your faith, teach me about it through your compassion for your neighbors.
In the end, I’m not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as in how you choose to live and give.
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After numerous attempts to move the conversation from male gay sex to female gay sex, I can help but wonder what baps fascination is with male gay sex. Let's focus on female gay sex,,,id like to hear what the bloody hell is wrong with two hot, naked, sweaty and ready, dripping wet females getting it on with eachother in the privacy of my bedroom?
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This thread just goes on and on and on... Why oh why do we care so much about what goes on in the bedrooms of others?
There will always be very closed minded people who take comfort in believing that everything there is to know about the world can be found in a book written thousands of years ago. Many of these people (who supposedly support small government) want government that can compel people to the teachings of that book. I'm forever amazed that intelligent people will turn to the bible itself as proof that the teachings contained therein are the only possible truth. The bible is true because the bible says it's true. Really? Good thing people are superstitious enough not to subject these arguments to any kind of peer review.
As a card carrying republican, I detest what this mindset has done to my party. These absurd moral arguments are exactly why the democrats keep winning. All they have to say are the words "abortion" and "gays" and we just run off to chase the shiny object. So, while we're chasing the shiny object, we make a$$es of ourselves telling people that babies resulting from rape are God's will, sex can only be between a man and a woman, etc.... we have no one to blame but ourselves when we go the way of the Torries. The republicans will never make any gains until they divorce themselves from the religious right. When everything you earn above subsistence levels are taxed out of existance (see WWII period) then perhaps we'll realize that we're losing more than we're gaining from our religious-right mouthpieces -- who are nothing more than a bunch of narrow-minded, superstitious rubes.
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whittaker says
Less than 5% of the population is over six foot five inches too. I guess being that tall is immoral as well!
I've been reading Pat.net for many years, and i've noticed something on this thread: The people who through time have proven themselves to be the least intelligent are the most against homosexuality. I'd love to see some study of the correlation of intelligence and intolerance, but if this thread is any example, I'd bet its pretty high.
Stupid people get bothered by stuff, smarter people are able to think how it shouldn't bother them.
So, I have a capital idea for the idiots on here: If you find yourself bothered by gay sex, don't have gay sex. But, if you find the need to write/say why it is wrong, realize that everybody else will just read that as evidence of your stupidity.
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mmmarvel says
I wouldn't call it a bet, it's more of a spiritual journey. I am closest to a mix of Gaianism (babylonian mother earth) which views the earth (and thus the universe) as one organism that you protect and cherish because you are a part of it, some shaman influences from Ruiz, some buddhism as well as Indian tantra/yogi spiritualism and some of my christian roots and it makes a good compendium.
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Bellingham Bill says
Yes, pre-Nazi Germany had the largest atheist/humanist organizations in the world at the time. One of the first things that Hitler did was seize the assets and dissolve these groups.
"For eight months we have been waging a heroic battle against the Communist threat to our Volk, the decomposition of our culture, the subversion of our art, and the poisoning of our public morality. We have put an end to denial of God and abuse of religion. We owe Providence humble gratitude for not allowing us to lose our battle against the misery of unemployment and for the salvation of the German peasant."
* * * * *
"We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."
-- Hitler, 1933
One has to thoroughly have their head in the sand to think that the Nazi movement was atheist.
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Bap69, your unhealthy obsession with this topic has made you into a troll. Find a willing man and get what you need. Remember to put some lube in first, and make sure he wears a condom. After the initial pain goes away, you'll feel better.
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Bap33 says
Oh the carnage! Will no one stop this self-abuse?
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ALEC keeps prisons full, transferring your tax dollars to ALEC members.
Remarkably, ALEC's slogan is "Limited Government · Free Markets · Federalism." That is the exact opposite of the truth. ALEC expands the drug war, including national minimum sentencing.
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The most unnatural act by far is organized religion. No other species pays a subset of its members to hold forth about invisible beings and their purported will. The damage can be observed in Bop69, who is trapped in a cycle of abuse that was inflicted upon him and that he inflicts now upon himself and others.
An Iraqi Shi'ite Muslim child gashes his forehead with a sword during a ceremony marking Ashura in Baghdad
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What of the six hours of television that americans watch per day? Of the 250+ pounds of sugar that americans consume annually? Neither act is natural, they are both deleterious to society, so why doth thou not protest these immoral and unnatural acts? Why such focus on male/male coupling (while oddly ignoring female homosexual sex)?
The only reasoning I can figure, is because your thoughts are not organic. They were planted in your mind by outside forces looking to control you. To dumb you down thru malnutrition and poor health (mentally/physically/spiritually) that arise from all the sugar consumption, and fortified by the mind control you willingly subject yourself to, six hours a day, wastijg away staring mindlessly at the boob tube
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Bap33 says
actually the pointing and scoffing is at you. I thought you set your stupid worthless trash bar as high as you could, years ago, when you posted how mexicans where inferior, but you are topping even yourself on this thread. You are the most disgusting person ever to come on this blog, and a gross person in every way.
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It's just plain dirty, but my gay neighbor sure does know how to make me feel like I'm really something else, my ass is great, face, skin, legs, heck I'm just plain beautiful, take great care of myself, and look ten years younger than my age. Pretty crazy feminist world we live in when a man is getting more compliments and looks from the men than the women. Women, they don't seem to care what you look like as long as you got the money. Times they are a changing.