Do I have to pay federal income tax?


By Scagnetti   Follow   Fri, 16 Nov 2012, 12:06am   1,809 views   20 comments
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Wow. This video was really cool. Check it out. It is almost 2 hours long, but it's good stuff.

The part that interests me the most is about the income tax. Apparently it's voluntary? The supreme court has ruled that a persons wages (fruit of their labor) is not taxable? The IRS is a bunch of thugs who rule on intimidation instead of the law? Anyone know more about this?

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  1. CaptainShuddup


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    1   7:27am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    No but you do have to file.

    edited to add, "accurately" file.

    People don't go to jail for paying taxes, they go to jail for tax evasion.
    If you don't file or don't file accurately, then that is how they get you.

  2. lostand confused


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    2   7:44am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    I guess Lauryn Hill must have seen the same video and Wesley Snipes?

  3. leo707


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    3   9:36am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    lostand confused says

    I guess Lauryn Hill must have seen the same video and Wesley Snipes?

    Makes one wonder why they did not use the video as evidence when they went to court, because I am sure it would have proven them innocent...

    Anyway, to the OP question: Yes, you have to pay federal taxes; it is not optional.

  4. upisdown


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    4   10:20am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Maybe somebody could email an expert, to Peter Schiff, and ask him. Don't forget to also ask him where he sends his father's day cards to.

  5. leo707


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    5   10:48am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    upisdown says

    Maybe somebody could email an expert,

    Actually, Wesley Snipes is probably now a expert on whether or not Federal Income Taxes are voluntary.

  6. upisdown


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    6   11:16am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    LOL, the Wesley Snipes defense. He can't be guilty because he's stupid. And innocent. Or both. Or was he framed by a tax system put in place long before he was born?

    He should be in prison(is he still?)for listening to stupid advice from a stupid person. But, the criminal code doesn't directly cover stupidity, just acts done because of it.

  7. Scagnetti


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    7   11:33am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Scagnetti invited Mystery X to fact-check this discussion.

    Invite another expert to fact-check this discussion.

  8. Scagnetti


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    8   11:56am Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    upisdown says

    Maybe somebody could email an expert, to Peter Schiff, and ask him. Don't forget to also ask him where he sends his father's day cards to.

    Good idea....thanks!

  9. upisdown


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    9   12:05pm Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Now you've got me curious, but not enough to email him and have to read all of his doom and gloom-sky-is falling crap, while trying to sell me gold. And his books too. One thing to remember about Schiff, there's a reason why his first name is Peter.

  10. Scagnetti


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    10   12:23pm Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    upisdown says

    Now you've got me curious, but not enough to email him and have to read all of his doom and gloom-sky-is falling crap, while trying to sell me gold. And his books too. One thing to remember about Schiff, there's a reason why his first name is Peter.

    Actually I didn't email Peter Schiff, but the givemeliberty foundation. Robert Schulz in particular. They are the biggest proponents of the anti income tax movement (if you can call it that).

  11. upisdown


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    11   12:57pm Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Makes you wonder how many of those so-called tax experts utilize the whistleblower statutes when tax dodgers come to them on how to evade/ not pay any taxes.

  12. Dan8267


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    12   3:19pm Fri 16 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I saw this movie. First of, when you file your 1020, line 43 is labeled "Taxable Income" and line 44 is labeled "Tax". And you have no choice but to state that your tax is such-n-such even if you are claiming you do not have to pay taxes.

    And if you fill out a tax form the federal government can and will confiscate your property and add fines and penalties for not paying by the due date. Try getting those fines and penalties removed or getting your property back.

    The bottom line is yes, it is illegal for the federal government to force you to pay income tax as they didn't go through due process. However, that doesn't matter. Since the government enforces the law based on its own self-interest rather than the law, the government can and will jail you for not paying taxes regardless of how illegal it is to do so. The laws on paper and the laws in practice are not necessarily the same.

    Short of violent revolution, there is no way to prevent our government from violating these laws. The few people who managed to convince a jury, rightfully so, that the income tax is not compulsory simply got lucky that they had a jury with brains. Most people will not have such a jury.

    Since the government has grown so dependent on the income tax -- a huge mistake itself -- it should at least have the integrity to lawfully pass the income tax so that it's not breaking the law going forward. However, all politician are pussies and won't dream of putting this on the table.

    Of course, we wouldn't need the income tax if we didn't have parasites at the top of the food chain, but those parasites pay little tax anyway. Funding for general government and services would be better done as appropriated taxes. Such taxes would avoid the Tragedy of the Commons in which tax money gets wasted.

  13. elliemae


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    13   1:07pm Sat 17 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    I had a friend who believed this line of shit. Followed some guy who stated that taxes were illegal, they didn't pass the law or something, had a system.

    He ended up paying a hefty fine and his guru was nowhere to be found...

  14. Christopher


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    14   1:37pm Sat 17 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    You can find a preparer that will run your numbers free if you need to file and charge you only if you file.

  15. elliemae


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    15   3:55pm Sat 17 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Christopher says

    You can find a preparer that will run your numbers free if you need to file and charge you only if you file.

    Yes, and you get what you pay for IMHO. Like H&R Block, that hires a shitload of people in the tax season and trains them to use a computer program that you can either get free or for substantially less than you'd pay if you went into their office.

    You get what you pay for there, too.

  16. Scagnetti


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    16   8:08pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I found a great quote for this thread....

    "Take, for example, the institution of taxation, which statists have claimed is in some sense really "voluntary". Anyone who truly believes in the "voluntary" nature of taxation is invited to refuse to pay taxes and to see what then happens to him. If we analyze taxation, we find that, among all the persons and institutions in society, only the government acquires its revenues through coercive violence. Everyone else in society acquires income either through voluntary gift (lodge, charitable society, chess club) or through the sale of goods or services voluntarily purchased by consumers. If anyone but the government proceeded to "tax", this would clearly be considered coercion and thinly disguised banditry. Yet the mystical trappings of "sovereignty" have so veiled the process that only libertarians are prepared to call taxation what it is" legalized and organized theft on a grand scale."

    (Rothbard, For a New Liberty, pg. 30)

  17. Bellingham Bill


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    17   8:42pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Rothbard was a dishonest clown.

    Fitting joker for the joke that is libertarianism, though.

  18. Scagnetti


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    18   9:06pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    Rothbard was a dishonest clown.

    Fitting joker for the joke that is libertarianism, though.

    You're pretty hostile! Ad hominem much?

    What is wrong with his logic?

  19. Bellingham Bill


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    19   10:37pm Sun 18 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Rothbard says

    Everyone else in society acquires income either through voluntary gift (lodge, charitable society, chess club) or through the sale of goods or services voluntarily purchased by consumers

    All entitled ownership of natural resources -- ie. land -- have a dodgy chain of title.

    This is Rothbard's central lie and the central flaw of (right-) libertarianism. And it's intentional.

    http://fraggle.wordpress.com/rothbard-v-georgism/

    There's a larger point here that government is just a formalized, structural way to eliminate violence in day-to-day life. We come to government because the alternative sucks more.

  20. Scagnetti


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    20   12:12am Mon 19 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Soooooo....you don't think I have a right to the fruits of my labor? I thought that was one of the main tenants of "Single Taxers"?

    Were talking about income tax.....remember?

    By the way, thanks for the link, half way through it now.

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