WatchSo me and my wife decided to try Lyft after a dinner night out at Mission District. (impossible to park)
We loaded the the lyft app previously, posted the the address and time and within 1 mins, two cars were spotted to be available. One was a Lexus driven by a mid 20's guy with his picture (with great reviews). We thought he was going to USF to pay for his 50K tuition. We acceped and looked for the pink mustache and the car. The GPS tracked where the car was so there was no doubt it was coming. Greeted with a fist pump, yes it is us.
As it turns out, he was a USF student paying crazy tuition, long chat short, our suggsted donation was $12, we paid $15 for what would be normally a $20 cab ride before tips. The suggested donation is probabaly work around the car for hire rule legally.
This is application of modern technology. I'm not sure why medallion cabs can't do the same thing but here was a case where application of technology works and I would likely reuse. The experience is off the charts and we felt comfortable. Also, I rather support a college kid then the semi cab fraternity.
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We've briefly discussed Lyft before on Pat.net. For those who need to get up to speed on what SFace is talking about:
The state Public Utilities Commission last week fined each of the companies $20,000, saying they are operating illegally and in violation of previously issued "cease-and-desist" orders. The PUC says the ride services haven't obtained the proper permits to run their businesses, which give consumers the power to quickly arrange rides "on demand" through apps on their smartphones. Uber, SideCar and Zimride's mobile app service, called Lyft, are appealing the fines and vow to continue operating.
SFace, thanks for posting your first hand account.
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46 male
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BTW, their website is http://lyft.me/ (Not .com.)
The fines are clearly an example of "regulatory capture", where laws are used to prevent free-market competition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture
Lyft seems like a good idea to me, so I think we should protest how regulation is being used to stifle innovation here.
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It kinda undermines the medallion program, which are sold for 250K+ and crazy transfer fees. Taxi medallaions are big business and investment itself.
In any case, the legality is a matter of substance vs. form.
The form is it is not for hire. The transaction is strucured in a way that you cannot conclude a pay for hire legally.
The substance says it is since it is essentially car for hire
I can kinda see the government side in this as driver and car safety is important. But cabs are a higher risk as the driver and cars in lyft are meticoulously reviewed which impacts behavior. It is instant feedback. Cabs are actually more unknown. Any reviews on crazy driver and/or squeeky brakes and you can be sure there will be no business, not so with cabs.
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Screw the medallion program. It's just another way to prevent competition and charge the public more for the same service.
There is one taxi regulation I would like though: the exact price to the destination should be explicitly quoted when you enter the cab.
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The trick of using regulation to stomp out innovation and keep prices high is also routinely used by realtors. For example, realtors tried to shut down FSBO sites by claiming that they need a license even to advertise any property. That was struck down on 1st amendment grounds, but it shows you how low they will go.
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In urban areas, Taxi's are a necessity, if one is going to get by without a car. I don't have a problem with the regulations, and don't have an opinion about the price of medallions.
In major (first world) cities, the cab businesses have evolved over many decades to what for the most part works fairly well. That is having enough cabs to get passengers around, but to also provide a reasonable full time job for a lot of people.
Patrick says
I agree that it's a very interesting idea. But I'm not convinced that if it grows a lot that it would be a good thing for either would be passengers in need of a ride, or would be cab drivers in need of a living.
What if we get just enough part timers doing this to somewhat kill the profitability of being a cab driver or owning a cab company, but not enough people doing it to provide a ride quickly and efficiently when you need one ?
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marcus says
Have you ever tried to get a cab in San Francisco? Certain neighborhoods are completely cabless and on busy days or during busy hours you can forget about hailing one anywhere and even if you call they sometimes take the next best customer hailing them esp. if they think they might be too late. BS regulations, it's all about the monopoly.
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I don't know San Francisco, but Monopoly would imply one cab company or a small number of cab companies.
I don't think that deregulating it is the way to go. I've been in countries where it's a free for all, and every cab ride is a big negotiation game, and an adventure (I know these apps have reviews etc). MY point isn't about Lyft per se, but I think that it's too easy too assume that taking regulations away s the answer, when often it simply isn't.
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marcus says
That is why the single most important rule should be that they print out the exact price to your destination before you start moving. No argument, just a pre-receipt. "Here's exactly how much it will cost to go from here to there."
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There is no negotiation. The fares are regulated (determined by a city agency) based on a function of:
minimum fare +
(Distance/Time) =
+ add on (luggage/tolls/out of area)
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SFace says
Yes there is. What you quoted is how it is supposed to be. I don't know how prevalent deviation from that standard (maybe it's the exception) is but I have experienced it on numerous occasions, e.g. negotiating a fixed fare for a longer ride (e.g. to airport) or having them charging more than what was advertised. I don't ride cabs often enough to bother, but it is not all that clear just because a couple of "signs" are posted.
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I think it is more a function of them asking you where you are from and where you are staying and heading. 90% of airport to hotel is "run through". 90% of the pickups from downtown office to home is run through. So they know it is not your money.
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Patrick says
The way normal cabs do it is they have set rates for airport and other specific longer rides, but use the meter otherwise. In places where rush our traffic or an accident can make it take twice as long, that's fair. The cab driver has to make a living.
By the way, I drove a cab for a while a few decades ago (age 20), and it's a tough job. I paid about one third of what drivers pay now, to rent a single shift cab - I had the cab all the time and drove as many hours as I wanted).
It was hard to do decently without working at least 12 hours a day. It's hard to work more than that, but to do well you needed to. Obviously a lot of the time was spent waiting for the next fare. Especially in the summer.
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marcus says
But the cab drivers know better than anyone else how long any ride will take at any time of day. There are also excellent on-line tools showing current traffic conditions. So cab drivers could do fine quoting the exact price to any destination. They'd lose on rare occasions, but win most of the time.
marcus says
If cabs were cheap and easy to get via services like Lyft, people would start to ride them all the time, leaving their cars at home. So you wouldn't be waiting for the next fare very long.
The attempt to prevent the free market from working (medallions, regulations to prevent innovation) raises prices, makes cabs scarce, and makes the whole experience suck so that most people don't even try to get a cab.
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marcus says
I drove a cab at 20 as well. The company took a % of the meter, or a % of the fixed rate airport runs. Also, the dispatcher required a "tip" (or familial relation) if you were going to be sent out on any of the airport runs.
marcus says
Yep.
marcus says
Yeah, I have been to those places as well. The free-for-all makes it harder for the drivers to make a decent wage, and makes the street less safe for everyone who has to share the road with a cab drivers rushing to each destination. I don't think that total deregulation is the way to go either.
How many drivers today could actually afford a medallion of their own (assuming they actually got a chance to buy one). The medallion system is just another way, for those rich enough to buy a medallion, to extract "rent" from the person actually doing the driving.
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This will all be great until the Craigslist murderous lunatic fringe takes a stab at it. In a highly sensationalized international news story, then that will be the end of that. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up, even offering someone a ride will be against the law.
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CaptainShuddup says
Actually, --while this is certainly possible-- it is probably less likely with a service like Lyft than a cab.
Cabs are more anonymous, when you flag down a cab no one other than you and the driver knows that you got into that drivers cab. Cab drivers have been known to kill their fairs.
With services like Lyft there is a record of who you drove with and when. It would be a lot harder for a Craigslist murderous sociopath to think that they could getaway with anything.
FYI, this also makes it safer for the driver.
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leo707 says
Who said anything about getting away with anything. AFAIK, every Craigslist Psychopath has been caught.
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CaptainShuddup says
Yes, but I would be willing to bet they all thought that they were going to get away with it.
That is the problem with punishments as a deterrent to crime, they only work if people think they are going to get caught.
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Patrick says
I agree. It's more about generating revenue for the local municipality than anything else.
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NPR interviewed the Sidecar, Uber, and (I think) Lyft folks this morning along with a member of the taxi industry. I think the Sidecar argument that its service is merely carpooling is a stretch especially when folks are specifically driving around for fares (like I've seen with Lyft). Their legal arguments may hold water in a vacuum but I sincerely believe when there is a lawsuit and drivers are deposed, we'll see that a fair number of drivers will be doing this as a full-time job.
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DukeLaw says
Not to mention there is probably a shit-load of internal company emails/communications that would tell a different story.
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This is probably a good case for "The Institute for Justice":
http://www.ij.org/
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I am looking into getting a job as a driver with Lyft it seems like a good job and have an interview on monday. Are there any drivers out there that can answer this question. Is there a drug test. I don't have any illegal drugs in my system but I was a late bloomer and just got my wisdom teeth removed and was on vicodin pretty heavily due to some issues. I am now almost fully recovered and havn't taken the medication for 2 days. I will let them know at the interview but a lot of drug tests are either pass or fail with no details.
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Any random driver picked off the street is safer than your average death-wish taxi driver, usually distracted by answering four cell phones to manage taxi, drug trafficking, human trafficking and mattress delivery businesses and often stoned or shitfaced Lyft should run a news crawl of hackney mayhem with stories of taxi drivers madcap criminal adventures.
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SFace says
I would go all Elaine Benes' dad on the guy, if he pulled up in a car with a pink mustache.