FREE I Love Obamacare bumper stickers


By tovarichpeter   Follow   Sat, 24 Nov 2012, 2:22pm   6,552 views   51 comments
In South San Francisco CA 94080   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (3)  

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  1. Suburban Gal


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    1   6:26pm Sat 24 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    I'd like one, but my mom's afraid that someone opposed to Obamacare would end up vandalizing my car so I'll pass on the offer.

  2. Auntiegrav


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    2   7:05pm Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Suburban Gal says

    Partial change yields some satisfaction. No change just keeps angering the masses.

    Yeah. If "let them eat cake" isn't good enough, then "let them eat cake with FROSTING".
    You present a good, short explanation of the situation.
    What's missing is the paradigm shift from actual health care (when communities used to have public hospitals) to tax and spend health INSURANCE and corrupt regulation that built all of that 'private' bureaucracy and marble floors to be deducted as "expenses", and then, the expansion of drug-based critical care into drug-based living, as well as life-extension of 'those who can pay the bills': the rich boomers.
    Fox then gets the boomers riled up on the "death-panels" issue, because nobody wants them to stop blowing billions of dollars keeping their sugar and booze-laden bodies alive just long enough to make it through their great-great-grandkids' next birthday fiasco made in China. The food industry wants nothing to do with health, and the health industry wants nothing to do with food, yet the majority of the costs are generated by poor nutrition while the USDA forges ahead with corn/soy/dairy policies that keep the trade imbalance at least partially satisfied by selling empty calories in exchange for oil and plastic crap we don't need.

  3. Suburban Gal


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    3   1:01pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    woppa says

    Great prank would be to put these on your republican friends cars.

    I don't think they'd like that very much.

    On the contrary, they'd probably prefer bumper stickers that read: I HATE OBAMACARE. In fact, I think they may make them. I'd be shocked if they didn't exist.

  4. Auntiegrav


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    4   1:29pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Suburban Gal says

    On the contrary, they'd probably prefer bumper stickers that read: I HATE OBAMACARE. In fact, I think they may make them. I'd be shocked if they didn't exist.

    Too mild. Been to a gun show lately?

  5. monkframe


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    5   8:35pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    I'm really hopeful that I will become part of the 47%, (NOT the 47% that voted for Romney) and receive some kind of SUBSIDY, (yeah, say it loud) that will help me with my $876 per month goddam Kaiser payments!
    I don't care where it comes from, I do not want to go bankrupt or receive a death sentence from Kaiser in the form of non-coverage.

  6. Dan8267


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    6   7:32am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Suburban Gal says

    That's the difference between you and me. I try not to focus on the problems with Obamacare, as it can be honed over time. Nothing is ever 100% perfect in life nor will it ever be.

    There's a difference between an ancillary problem and a fundamental one. When the core of a plan is bad, it is better to reject the plan and insist on one that is not fundamentally flawed.

    Furthermore, a partial solution can and does prevent a more full solution from taking place. There are countless examples of this throughout history including IPv4 with NAT vs IPv6. But here's the fundamental reason why partial solutions are bad...

    There was great pressure for health care reform before Obamacare. Political will and popular opinion was putting a lot of pressure on politicians to make reform. A partial solution like Obamacare actually prevents real reform by alleviating that pressure. Yes, in the long run, it is better to stick with the status quo until pressure forces politicians to reform the system correctly than to accept a half-ass, incorrect solution. Now that we have a partial solution, it is unlikely we'll see real reform any time soon.

  7. curious2


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    7   11:52pm Tue 27 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    errc says

    Suburban gal sounds like a....

    ...hostage with Stockholm Syndrome saying "at least my captors give me free food."

    Suburban Gal says

    In the long-run, this will save both us and the insurance company from having to pay out hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, to treat something that could've been caught early on or have been prevented altogether.

    The myth of preventive care supposedly saving money has been disproved repeatedly including by the CDC, but there it is again, because her captors told her so. If it saved money as she seems to believe, then premiums would have fallen instead of increasing. I can only hope she doesn't get irradiated for the "free" glow in the dark:

    "What's new is that CT is being marketed as a preventive or proactive health care measure to healthy individuals who have no symptoms of disease [but there are] No Proven Benefits for Healthy People."

    Tragically, her comment illustrates the self-defeating illogic that people fell to in order to rationalize this disastrous policy, and the terrible danger to their health. When mandatory insurance gives rise to mandatory "preventative" radiation, anyone with sense will leave the country.

  8. drew_eckhardt


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    8   10:37pm Tue 11 Dec 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    there's nothing wrong with that, actually, since the young and old are actually the same people over time.

    it's basically pre-paying our health care so we have to save less and have less to worry about in our older age.

    There's plenty wrong with it because

    1. Young people have yet to reach their peak earning years which makes subsidizing old people consume a disproportionate share of their income.

    2. The time value of money means that young people are effectively paying _much_ more than if they just took care of themselves when they get old (perhaps through mandatory escrow accounts). $1 from a 20 year old can provide $1 worth of benefits for a 60 year old today or $6.35 for their own care (S&P 500 returns from the last 40 years with dividends reinvested) at age 60.

  9. Suburban Gal


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    9   6:07pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Auntiegrav says

    Been to a gun show lately?

    No. I don't believe in the whole right to bear arms thing nor do I even like guns for that matter.

  10. Auntiegrav


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    10   8:30pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    My point is that you will find much worse than "I hate Obamacare" when you bump into the part of America represented by the people at gun shows. Maybe you should pay the 5 bucks sometime and get yourself a Mossy Oak purse and a couple of empty ammo cans to keep the cat food in.

    The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

  11. bmwman91


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    11   12:15am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Suburban Gal says

    No. I don't believe in the whole right to bear arms thing nor do I even like guns for that matter.

    My sincerest advice is to take a Saturday trip to a local firing range and take a firearms-intro course. It is 100% safe and controlled by an instructor that walks you through everything, and I think that you might be surprised at how much fun shooting paper targets at 50ft is. Guns demand respect, but not fear. Fear comes from not understanding them or the majority of those that own them legally. Try it out, and at least then if you still harbor disdain toward firearms you can say that you have personal experience with them.

    Auntiegrav says

    My point is that you will find much worse than "I hate Obamacare" when you bump into the part of America represented by the people at gun shows.

    Yes, let the gun-hate flow. I hate to break it to you, but bible thumping white trash red necks are FAR from the only group that enjoys firearms, owns firearms or uses them for recreational purposes. The Bay Area is basically THE lib-tard Mecca, and there is quite a bit of gun ownership here, even among Obama supporters that I know.

  12. Dan8267


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    12   12:23am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    woppa says

    Great prank would be to put these on your republican friends cars.

    Better yet...

  13. Dan8267


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    13   12:32am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    The main problems with Obamacare:

    1. No single-payer.
    2. No public option.
    3. No age bracketing to protect the young from having to pay for the old.
    4. No divorcing of health care from employment.
    5. Without 1 to 4, the individual mandate is just a win for the insurance companies as is just plain wrong. Give use 1 to 4, and the individual mandate is an acceptable price.

    Other problems with Obamacare:

    6. Does not address overcharging, although #1 would solve that.
    7. No public prices, although #1 would solve that.
    8. Does not eliminate waste due to inefficient administration.
    9. Does not remove the incentive of insurance companies to screw their customers.
    10. Does not prevent the insurance companies from screwing their customers.
    11. Does not address things that cause health care to be more expensive and scarce such as pollution, unhealthy food, lack of preventative care, over prescribing medication, etc.
    12. Does not remove the incentive of drug companies to find treatments rather than cures. Think cancer and AIDS.

  14. Suburban Gal


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    14   6:31am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bmwman91 says

    My sincerest advice is to take a Saturday trip to a local firing range and take a firearms-intro course. It is 100% safe and controlled by an instructor that walks you through everything, and I think that you might be surprised at how much fun shooting paper targets at 50ft is.

    I don't disagree with you, but I highly doubt I'd find that fun. Guns do absolutely NOTHING for me. Never have, never will. I don't see any point in owning them unless you live in Alaska and are trying to live off the land, which I don't have any intent of ever doing.

  15. Suburban Gal


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    15   6:34am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    The main problems with Obamacare:
    1. No single-payer.
    2. No public option.
    3. No age bracketing to protect the young from having to pay for the old.
    4. No divorcing of health care from employment.
    5. Without 1 to 4, the individual mandate is just a win for the insurance companies as is just plain wrong. Give use 1 to 4, and the individual mandate is an acceptable price.

    Other problems with Obamacare:

    6. Does not address overcharging, although #1 would solve that.
    7. No public prices, although #1 would solve that.
    8. Does not eliminate waste due to inefficient administration.
    9. Does not remove the incentive of insurance companies to screw their customers.
    10. Does not prevent the insurance companies from screwing their customers.
    11. Does not address things that cause health care to be more expensive and scarce such as pollution, unhealthy food, lack of preventative care, over prescribing medication, etc.
    12. Does not remove the incentive of drug companies to find treatments rather than cures. Think cancer and AIDS.

    That's the difference between you and me. I try not to focus on the problems with Obamacare, as it can be honed over time. Nothing is ever 100% perfect in life nor will it ever be. There will always be someone who is unhappy. There's an old adage that says you can't please everyone. If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. So, I'd rather focus on the good points to Oamacare. I'm sorry you, and others, choose to be so focused on the problems with Obamacare.

    Had President Bush pashed Bushcare, I'm sure I and other Democrats would be hearing the same thing from Republicans even though half of us didn't like it and feel it could've addressed 12 more points to it.

  16. Bellingham Bill


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    16   7:22am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    bmwman91 says

    at how much fun shooting paper targets at 50ft is

    I've done it a couple of times and found shooting handguns to be incredibly pointless.

    Just loud and smelly.

    If I had need for personal protection (ie blow someone away) I'd just buy a fucking shotgun.

    If I needed food I'd raise chickens and not go shoot deer, LOL.

  17. Dan8267


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    17   7:38am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    Dan8267 says

    3. No age bracketing to protect the young from having to pay for the old.

    there's nothing wrong with that, actually, since the young and old are actually the same people over time.

    There are several things wrong with that.

    1. It's a Ponzi scheme in which the later generations will always pay more and get less than previous generations.

    2. The older generations have already been favored economically their entire lives including having both the great stock and housing booms of the past century (and that's not including the housing bubble).

    3. The Millennials are already being dicked over with a workforce entry tax of half a million dollars called "college".

    4. Such a transfer scheme is socially unjust.

    5. Such a transfer scheme causes inter-generational conflict.

    6. The transfer of wealth from the young to the old is done by unethical corporations using non-transparent mechanisms that result in a significant amount of that wealth to be leached off during the transfer.

    7. Ultimately, such a system encourages wasteful spending on the old and discourages needed spending on youth health. The young are simply seen as cash cows to be milked.

    8. Decreasing the income of the young causes them to eat cheaper, less healthy foods, which causes more health problems in the future.

  18. Dan8267


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    18   7:40am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    1. No single-payer.
    2. No public option.

    These alone won't fix anything, either

    A properly implemented single-payer systems would

    1. Standardized prices
    2. Make pricing transparent
    3. Lower prices by allowing competition
    4. Lower transactional and administrative costs, thus lowering prices more.
    5. Allow for increase competition in the health insurance industry. Now organizations could be created that are analogous to credit unions as opposed to banks in the banking industry.

  19. zzyzzx


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    19   8:13am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    8. Does not eliminate waste due to inefficient administration.

    Because we all know that one way to eliminate waste is via a new government program.

  20. monkframe


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    20   11:31am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    There was great pressure for health care reform before Obamacare. Political will and popular opinion was putting a lot of pressure on politicians to make reform. A partial solution like Obamacare actually prevents real reform by alleviating that pressure. Yes, in the long run, it is better to stick with the status quo until pressure forces politicians to reform the system correctly than to accept a half-ass, incorrect solution. Now that we have a partial solution, it is unlikely we'll see real reform any time soon.

    I agree with you Dan, in many of your criticisms, however, some are predicting that if parts of the plan fail, it will force the government to take on a greater role, which I think would be the right way to do it.

    Just look at administrative costs; Social Security has about 3 percent in overhead, but the health insurance industry is 15 to 30 percent, depending who's analyzing it. Getting the profit motive out of the way in providing health care is the only thing that could possibly slow down the train.

    Medicare for all would have been a much simpler fix, but all kinds of industries that depend on runaway costs to fund their huge profits and salaries made sure they were heard over the people's voices.

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