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FREE I Love Obamacare bumper stickers


By tovarichpeter   Follow   Sat, 24 Nov 2012, 6:22am PST   8,115 views   51 comments   Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (3)  

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Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Sat, 24 Nov 2012, 10:26am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 1

I'd like one, but my mom's afraid that someone opposed to Obamacare would end up vandalizing my car so I'll pass on the offer.

woppa   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 2:58am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (3)     Comment 2

Great prank would be to put these on your republican friends cars.

Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 5:01am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 3

woppa says

Great prank would be to put these on your republican friends cars.

I don't think they'd like that very much.

On the contrary, they'd probably prefer bumper stickers that read: I HATE OBAMACARE. In fact, I think they may make them. I'd be shocked if they didn't exist.

Auntiegrav   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 5:29am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 4

Suburban Gal says

On the contrary, they'd probably prefer bumper stickers that read: I HATE OBAMACARE. In fact, I think they may make them. I'd be shocked if they didn't exist.

Too mild. Been to a gun show lately?

Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 10:07am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 5

Auntiegrav says

Been to a gun show lately?

No. I don't believe in the whole right to bear arms thing nor do I even like guns for that matter.

Auntiegrav   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 12:30pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 6

My point is that you will find much worse than "I hate Obamacare" when you bump into the part of America represented by the people at gun shows. Maybe you should pay the 5 bucks sometime and get yourself a Mossy Oak purse and a couple of empty ammo cans to keep the cat food in.

The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.

monkframe   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 12:35pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 7

I'm really hopeful that I will become part of the 47%, (NOT the 47% that voted for Romney) and receive some kind of SUBSIDY, (yeah, say it loud) that will help me with my $876 per month goddam Kaiser payments!
I don't care where it comes from, I do not want to go bankrupt or receive a death sentence from Kaiser in the form of non-coverage.

bmwman91   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 4:15pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 8

Suburban Gal says

No. I don't believe in the whole right to bear arms thing nor do I even like guns for that matter.

My sincerest advice is to take a Saturday trip to a local firing range and take a firearms-intro course. It is 100% safe and controlled by an instructor that walks you through everything, and I think that you might be surprised at how much fun shooting paper targets at 50ft is. Guns demand respect, but not fear. Fear comes from not understanding them or the majority of those that own them legally. Try it out, and at least then if you still harbor disdain toward firearms you can say that you have personal experience with them.

Auntiegrav says

My point is that you will find much worse than "I hate Obamacare" when you bump into the part of America represented by the people at gun shows.

Yes, let the gun-hate flow. I hate to break it to you, but bible thumping white trash red necks are FAR from the only group that enjoys firearms, owns firearms or uses them for recreational purposes. The Bay Area is basically THE lib-tard Mecca, and there is quite a bit of gun ownership here, even among Obama supporters that I know.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 4:23pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 9

woppa says

Great prank would be to put these on your republican friends cars.

Better yet...

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 4:32pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 10

The main problems with Obamacare:

1. No single-payer.
2. No public option.
3. No age bracketing to protect the young from having to pay for the old.
4. No divorcing of health care from employment.
5. Without 1 to 4, the individual mandate is just a win for the insurance companies as is just plain wrong. Give use 1 to 4, and the individual mandate is an acceptable price.

Other problems with Obamacare:

6. Does not address overcharging, although #1 would solve that.
7. No public prices, although #1 would solve that.
8. Does not eliminate waste due to inefficient administration.
9. Does not remove the incentive of insurance companies to screw their customers.
10. Does not prevent the insurance companies from screwing their customers.
11. Does not address things that cause health care to be more expensive and scarce such as pollution, unhealthy food, lack of preventative care, over prescribing medication, etc.
12. Does not remove the incentive of drug companies to find treatments rather than cures. Think cancer and AIDS.

Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 10:31pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 11

bmwman91 says

My sincerest advice is to take a Saturday trip to a local firing range and take a firearms-intro course. It is 100% safe and controlled by an instructor that walks you through everything, and I think that you might be surprised at how much fun shooting paper targets at 50ft is.

I don't disagree with you, but I highly doubt I'd find that fun. Guns do absolutely NOTHING for me. Never have, never will. I don't see any point in owning them unless you live in Alaska and are trying to live off the land, which I don't have any intent of ever doing.

Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 10:34pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 12

Dan8267 says

The main problems with Obamacare:
1. No single-payer.
2. No public option.
3. No age bracketing to protect the young from having to pay for the old.
4. No divorcing of health care from employment.
5. Without 1 to 4, the individual mandate is just a win for the insurance companies as is just plain wrong. Give use 1 to 4, and the individual mandate is an acceptable price.

Other problems with Obamacare:

6. Does not address overcharging, although #1 would solve that.
7. No public prices, although #1 would solve that.
8. Does not eliminate waste due to inefficient administration.
9. Does not remove the incentive of insurance companies to screw their customers.
10. Does not prevent the insurance companies from screwing their customers.
11. Does not address things that cause health care to be more expensive and scarce such as pollution, unhealthy food, lack of preventative care, over prescribing medication, etc.
12. Does not remove the incentive of drug companies to find treatments rather than cures. Think cancer and AIDS.

That's the difference between you and me. I try not to focus on the problems with Obamacare, as it can be honed over time. Nothing is ever 100% perfect in life nor will it ever be. There will always be someone who is unhappy. There's an old adage that says you can't please everyone. If you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. So, I'd rather focus on the good points to Oamacare. I'm sorry you, and others, choose to be so focused on the problems with Obamacare.

Had President Bush pashed Bushcare, I'm sure I and other Democrats would be hearing the same thing from Republicans even though half of us didn't like it and feel it could've addressed 12 more points to it.

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 11:13pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 13

Dan8267 says

3. No age bracketing to protect the young from having to pay for the old.

there's nothing wrong with that, actually, since the young and old are actually the same people over time.

it's basically pre-paying our health care so we have to save less and have less to worry about in our older age.

plus all taxes come out of rents anyway. The more we load onto payroll taxes the less rents and home prices will be bid up. This is totally a win-win free lunch thing that nobody can apparently see for some strange reason.

as for:

1. No single-payer.
2. No public option.

These alone won't fix anything, either. Coopting the present structure minimizes the change people will see in 2014. People don't like change, that's the buzzsaw the Clinton initiative ran into.

And the insurance sector skim is minimal compared to the hospital sector skim (though of course Kaiser and other HMOs are double-dipping here).

4. No divorcing of health care from employment.

Again, that's just a bridge too far, and actually the state exchanges ARE an avenue for this.

As it is now, plenty of Chambers of Commerce Republican party operatives are threatening to kill the middle class over ObamaCare's new regulations on minimal coverage.

Health system had evolved into a colossal mess and expecting Congress to solve it in a single pass is . . . unrealistic.

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 11:22pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 14

bmwman91 says

at how much fun shooting paper targets at 50ft is

I've done it a couple of times and found shooting handguns to be incredibly pointless.

Just loud and smelly.

If I had need for personal protection (ie blow someone away) I'd just buy a fucking shotgun.

If I needed food I'd raise chickens and not go shoot deer, LOL.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 11:32pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 15

Suburban Gal says

That's the difference between you and me. I try not to focus on the problems with Obamacare, as it can be honed over time. Nothing is ever 100% perfect in life nor will it ever be.

There's a difference between an ancillary problem and a fundamental one. When the core of a plan is bad, it is better to reject the plan and insist on one that is not fundamentally flawed.

Furthermore, a partial solution can and does prevent a more full solution from taking place. There are countless examples of this throughout history including IPv4 with NAT vs IPv6. But here's the fundamental reason why partial solutions are bad...

There was great pressure for health care reform before Obamacare. Political will and popular opinion was putting a lot of pressure on politicians to make reform. A partial solution like Obamacare actually prevents real reform by alleviating that pressure. Yes, in the long run, it is better to stick with the status quo until pressure forces politicians to reform the system correctly than to accept a half-ass, incorrect solution. Now that we have a partial solution, it is unlikely we'll see real reform any time soon.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 11:38pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 16

Bellingham Bill says

Dan8267 says

3. No age bracketing to protect the young from having to pay for the old.

there's nothing wrong with that, actually, since the young and old are actually the same people over time.

There are several things wrong with that.

1. It's a Ponzi scheme in which the later generations will always pay more and get less than previous generations.

2. The older generations have already been favored economically their entire lives including having both the great stock and housing booms of the past century (and that's not including the housing bubble).

3. The Millennials are already being dicked over with a workforce entry tax of half a million dollars called "college".

4. Such a transfer scheme is socially unjust.

5. Such a transfer scheme causes inter-generational conflict.

6. The transfer of wealth from the young to the old is done by unethical corporations using non-transparent mechanisms that result in a significant amount of that wealth to be leached off during the transfer.

7. Ultimately, such a system encourages wasteful spending on the old and discourages needed spending on youth health. The young are simply seen as cash cows to be milked.

8. Decreasing the income of the young causes them to eat cheaper, less healthy foods, which causes more health problems in the future.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 11:40pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 17

Bellingham Bill says

1. No single-payer.
2. No public option.

These alone won't fix anything, either

A properly implemented single-payer systems would

1. Standardized prices
2. Make pricing transparent
3. Lower prices by allowing competition
4. Lower transactional and administrative costs, thus lowering prices more.
5. Allow for increase competition in the health insurance industry. Now organizations could be created that are analogous to credit unions as opposed to banks in the banking industry.

zzyzzx   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 12:13am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 18

Dan8267 says

8. Does not eliminate waste due to inefficient administration.

Because we all know that one way to eliminate waste is via a new government program.

Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 12:27am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 19

Dan8267 says

When the core of a plan is bad, it is better to reject the plan and insist on one that is not fundamentally flawed.

But this could be said by anyone of any plan.

As I said, nothing is ever 100% perfect. There will always exist flaws no matter what plan is ultimately put on the table. You simply can't please everyone.

monkframe   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 3:31am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 20

Dan8267 says

There was great pressure for health care reform before Obamacare. Political will and popular opinion was putting a lot of pressure on politicians to make reform. A partial solution like Obamacare actually prevents real reform by alleviating that pressure. Yes, in the long run, it is better to stick with the status quo until pressure forces politicians to reform the system correctly than to accept a half-ass, incorrect solution. Now that we have a partial solution, it is unlikely we'll see real reform any time soon.

I agree with you Dan, in many of your criticisms, however, some are predicting that if parts of the plan fail, it will force the government to take on a greater role, which I think would be the right way to do it.

Just look at administrative costs; Social Security has about 3 percent in overhead, but the health insurance industry is 15 to 30 percent, depending who's analyzing it. Getting the profit motive out of the way in providing health care is the only thing that could possibly slow down the train.

Medicare for all would have been a much simpler fix, but all kinds of industries that depend on runaway costs to fund their huge profits and salaries made sure they were heard over the people's voices.

Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 9:12am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 21

Dan8267 says

There was great pressure for health care reform before Obamacare. Political will and popular opinion was putting a lot of pressure on politicians to make reform.

Since neither side, Republican nor Democrat, could seem to come to an adequate agreement as to how to handle the whole issue of healthcare reform, we ended up with partial reform in the form of Obamacare. Given there was pressure from the people for change, it was better to given them partial change than no change at all. Partial change yields some satisfaction. No change just keeps angering the masses.

Auntiegrav   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 10:53am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 22

bmwman91 says

Auntiegrav says

My point is that you will find much worse than "I hate Obamacare" when you bump into the part of America represented by the people at gun shows.

Yes, let the gun-hate flow. I hate to break it to you, but bible thumping white trash red necks are FAR from the only group that enjoys firearms, owns firearms or uses them for recreational purposes. The Bay Area is basically THE lib-tard Mecca, and there is quite a bit of gun ownership here, even among Obama supporters that I know.

Well, thanks for the "I hate gun-haters" rant, but I was just pointing out that she needed to expand her experiences if she's going to talk about the anti-Obama crowd. Suburban isolation cells will often produce people who say they hate guns BECAUSE of the rednecks, but they've never actually MET any of them to see how low they really go. In the meantime, going to the gun show would be a good way to see that the rednecks sell a lot of t-shirts and bumper stickers that are mean and nasty and POPULAR right next door in suburbia: especially among their videogaming kids.
There is a lot of truth to the redneck paradigm, and the more that suburbia is exposed to the depth of that wickedness, the more people can realize that the things they have to fear are not shown on TV, but caused by their isolation from neighbors that are right over the hedge, as well as the choices those neighbors make BECAUSE of the isolation of the hedges.

Auntiegrav   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 11:05am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 23

Suburban Gal says

Partial change yields some satisfaction. No change just keeps angering the masses.

Yeah. If "let them eat cake" isn't good enough, then "let them eat cake with FROSTING".
You present a good, short explanation of the situation.
What's missing is the paradigm shift from actual health care (when communities used to have public hospitals) to tax and spend health INSURANCE and corrupt regulation that built all of that 'private' bureaucracy and marble floors to be deducted as "expenses", and then, the expansion of drug-based critical care into drug-based living, as well as life-extension of 'those who can pay the bills': the rich boomers.
Fox then gets the boomers riled up on the "death-panels" issue, because nobody wants them to stop blowing billions of dollars keeping their sugar and booze-laden bodies alive just long enough to make it through their great-great-grandkids' next birthday fiasco made in China. The food industry wants nothing to do with health, and the health industry wants nothing to do with food, yet the majority of the costs are generated by poor nutrition while the USDA forges ahead with corn/soy/dairy policies that keep the trade imbalance at least partially satisfied by selling empty calories in exchange for oil and plastic crap we don't need.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 11:33am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 24

Auntiegrav says

the USDA forges ahead with corn/soy/dairy policies that keep the trade imbalance at least partially satisfied by selling empty calories in exchange for oil and plastic crap we don't need.

Actually our corn subsidies result in trade sanctions that make our deficits even bigger. As for "life extension," the best predictor of longevity remains education; money and health insurance pale in comparison.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 11:52am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 25

zzyzzx says

Because we all know that one way to eliminate waste is via a new government program.

Streamlining systems is always a way to eliminate waste.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 11:55am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 26

Suburban Gal says

Given there was pressure from the people for change, it was better to given them partial change than no change at all. Partial change yields some satisfaction. No change just keeps angering the masses.

Which is why the partial change was bad. It prevented real reforms. Without at least single payer, no real reform in the health industry can take place.

Obamacare was a win for big insurance, which is a loss for the rest of us. Ultimately, it's a big zero-sum game of us against big insurance.

Suburban Gal   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 1:00pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 27

Dan8267 says

Without at least single payer, no real reform in the health industry can take place.

Single-payer is a complete government-run health insurance system under which everyone is covered (e.g. Canada and Britain's system). I thought Republicans were largely against this because they don't like government intrusion in their lives and having government telling them how to live their lives. This is why itw as never on the table. Apparently, not enough Republicans support single-payer.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Mon, 26 Nov 2012, 1:08pm PST