Death Penalty has lived too long


By tovarichpeter   Follow   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 10:39am   826 views   13 comments
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http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/11/25/175057/commentary-death-penalty-as-an.html

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  1. elliemae


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    1   6:36pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    The death penalty has shown itself not to be effective as a deterrent... it merely keeps us from the costs of housing the criminals for many, many years.

    I'm on the fence about the death penalty. I don't know whether I could vote for it or not.

  2. mell


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    2   6:54pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    The death penalty has shown itself not to be effective as a deterrent... it merely keeps us from the costs of housing the criminals for many, many years.

    I'm on the fence about the death penalty. I don't know whether I could vote for it or not.

    I think it has been proven by now that it is actually more expensive than housing them as the process is extreme costly (because a life is on the line) and they have to be housed for many years anyways before a sentence can be carried out. There is always the possibility of convicting somebody who is innocent (and it actually happens) and therefor I am glad to see it go.

  3. elliemae


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    3   7:09pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Well, you have a point. All of the trials, appeals, etc are expensive. Even if the convict doesn't want the trials, he/she gets them.

  4. mmmarvel


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    4   8:29pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    mell says

    I think it has been proven by now that it is actually more expensive than housing them as the process is extreme costly (because a life is on the line) and they have to be housed for many years anyways before a sentence can be carried out. There is always the possibility of convicting somebody who is innocent (and it actually happens) and therefor I am glad to see it go.

    However, one thing that has also been shown over and over again, when they are dead they can never commit another crime. I throw up my hands time and time again when a convict escapes and goes out and commits more crimes. Makes me proud to live in Texas, where we not only carry out the death penalty, we're building an express lane.
    God Bless Texas

  5. Dan8267


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    5   11:37pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    mmmarvel says

    Makes me proud to live in Texas, where we not only carry out the death penalty, we're building an express lane.
    God Bless Texas

    This explains a lot. Only an idiot would be proud of Texas and its execution record.

    Texas has executed at least two innocent people beyond any doubt reasonable or otherwise. In reality, it's probably executed hundreds of innocent people in its history.

    Yes, America, We Have Executed an Innocent Man

    On December 7, 1989, this intense piece establishes beyond any reasonable doubt, Texas executed the former for a murder the latter had committed.

    No one can ever say again with a straight face that America doesn't execute innocent men. No one.

    And then there was the execution of Cameron Todd Willingham, a man wrongly convicted of killing his own children. He did absolutely no harm to them, but lost them tragically in a fire caused by faulty wiring.

    To be proud of Texas is shameful.

    Supporting the death penalty is also completely hypocritical for anyone claiming to follow Jesus's teachings. The Ten Commandments -- I know, Old Testament, but those damn Christians want the Ten Commandments in the court room -- says explicitly Thou shalt not kill.. Well, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of the death penalty.

    But here's what Jesus said...
    Turn the other cheek.
    Do good to those who hurt you.
    Love your enemies.
    Do not repay evil with evil.
    Do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you.
    Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

    Jesus was against the death penalty, and he had some first hand experience in the matter.

    Matthew 18:21-35

    Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times." "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

    Fuck, I guess all those Christians supporting the death penalty are going to hell.

    And other New Testament quotes...

    Proverbs 20:22
    Do not say, "I'll pay you back for this wrong!" Wait for the LORD, and he will deliver you.

    Mark 11:25
    And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.

    Colossians 3:13
    Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

    Matthew 6:14-15 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, (15) but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

    Luke 6:36-37 Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. (37) “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

    Ephesians 4:32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

    Colossians 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

    In fact, the entire mythology of Christianity from Adam and Eve falling from grace, to Noah's Ark, to Jesus dying on the cross and rising from the dead is entirely about forgiveness, which is not something you can give after executing a person.

    Now I can understand the arguments for the death penalty, as flawed as they are, but for Christians to take joy in the execution of a person -- and they most certainly do -- just shows that Christianity is perverted to the extend of being the exact opposite of what its core philosophy is.

    But Bill Maher says it best, like he always does...

  6. Bellingham Bill


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    6   7:29am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Dan8267 says

    I know, Old Testament, but those damn Christians want the Ten Commandments in the court room -- says explicitly Thou shalt not kill.. Well, that pretty much eliminates the possibility of the death penalty.

    uh, Dan, the OT is chock full of laws requiring the Israelites to mete out capital punishment.

  7. APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch


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    7   7:53am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    The problem is not with the law per se but in its unequal application and the entertainment value of the punishment. One, all bank frauds and scams perpetrated by bank execs should be punished by death AND the execution should be as amusing as possible, say with the perp being covered in gravy and shot out of cannons into lion's pits at a zoo.

  8. mmmarvel


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    8   9:46am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    But Bill Maher says it best, like he always does...

    And the fact that you like Bill Maher says a ton about you Dan, and none of it is positive.

  9. mmmarvel


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    9   9:57am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    Texas has executed at least two innocent people beyond any doubt reasonable or otherwise. In reality, it's probably executed hundreds of innocent people in its history.

    You are absolutely 100% correct Dan, and compare that against how many A-holes were put to death who more than deserved it? In some of those cases it's too bad we couldn't kill them, bring them back to life and kill them again based on the number of lives they took. Are there injustices, you bet. Does an innocent person sometimes die, you bet. The VAST majority of time does the person who did a terrible crime die? YOU BET.

    Why do we want to waste our taxpayer money supporting a man's life for 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years when he'll never give a thing to society? If he escapes, there is a high chance he'll commit another horrible crime (or crimes). Life imprisonment is insane, especially in California and other states where life imprisonment doesn't necessarily equate to life, some how, some way, they let some of them go after 20 or 30 years - I mean why is Charles Manson even GRANTED a parole hearing every few years?

  10. Dan8267


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    10   9:19pm Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    mmmarvel says

    And the fact that you like Bill Maher says a ton about you Dan, and none of it is positive.

    Feel free to insult the tens of millions of Americans who like Bill Maher and agree with most of what he says by listing in detail why all such people are scum. Please do.

  11. Dan8267


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    11   9:25pm Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    mmmarvel says

    Dan8267 says

    Texas has executed at least two innocent people beyond any doubt reasonable or otherwise. In reality, it's probably executed hundreds of innocent people in its history.

    You are absolutely 100% correct Dan, and compare that against how many A-holes were put to death who more than deserved it?

    Genesis 18:22-33

    22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord. 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not sparef the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

    26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

    27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?”

    “If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

    29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

    He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

    30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

    He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

    31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

    He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

    32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

    He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

    33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

    And then Jesus took that number down from ten to zero.

    Why the fuck do I, the hard-core atheist, have to school Christians on Christian morality? Even as an atheist, I'm more Christian than any of you Christians. Pathetic.

    Somehow I doubt that mmmarvel would so easily discard the innocent lives taken by Texas bloodlusters if one of those lives were his own son or daughter.

  12. PockyClipsNow


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    12   9:27pm Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    One day there will always be a power outage, flood, earthquake, civil collapse, etc and ALL THESE PEOPLE in jail for life are going to escape. What makes you think you can keep a dude in a cage 4eva? some will get out. Probably it will happen all at once. Then you might wish the death penalty had been in place because you will have to deal with them yourself face to face in the disaster/pocalypse.

  13. Dan8267


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    13   9:30pm Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    mmmarvel says

    Why do we want to waste our taxpayer money supporting a man's life for 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years when he'll never give a thing to society?

    Following that logic, why not use the poor for medical experimentation if its more profitable for society than not doing so? If the financial interests of society trumps human life and the right to live, then how exactly does "family values" bind our nation together. After all, every person is someone's son or daughter, someone's father or mother, someone's brother, sister, or cousin.

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