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Exactly when did "liberals" decide to stop being tolerant?


By dodgerfanjohn   Follow   Sun, 25 Nov 2012, 3:21pm   5,804 views   95 comments
In Los Angeles CA 90017   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (5)   Dislike (2)  

As I remember, one of the core tennents of the "liberal" belief system was tolerance of others...in esence, an emphasis on the ideas:

-that government ought not dictate what goes on between consenting adults behind closed doors.
-freedom of press.
-very strong support of free speech.

Basically an overall belief that as long as someone is doing or saying something that doesn't hurt anyone else, they ought to be able to do it and society and government should protect that person and their right to express themselves.

But that has diminished a great deal. The hatred by some of the left wing posters on this site is quite palpable. There is a STRONG intolerance of the ideas of others.

I'd argue that the concepts I listed above have been taken over by mostly libertarian leaning folks out there. That there are very few true liberals anymore, and that the entire liberal concept has been forcefully outdated, leaving the political spectrum worse for the wear.

IMO it really won't be too long before we see drastic changes in what is considered freedom of speech. I'm already seeing situations where people are asking to move with like minded people. Where if you don't agree with the lifestyle someone else lives, your immediately branded as a person of "hate". Where you are considered an inappropriate parent if you fail to teach your children an appropriately "tolerant" point of view as part of their upbringing.

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  1. APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch


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    1   6:00am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (5)   Dislike (1)  

    I believe everything has gone completely shithouse since the 9th Century and that 8th Century values are the basis upon which the Constitution was written and the Framers codified. Therefore, all those radical amendments, like the 13th, 14th and 19th Amendments must fucking go!

    If you don't defend my right to be correct about all of this, you are a fascist fuck and deserve to die because you hate Freedom.

  2. zzyzzx


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    2   11:03am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    Stalin and Mao were extremely intolerant.

  3. dodgerfanjohn


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    3   6:57pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    "hey man where's my toleration, huh?"

    is just passive-aggressive bullshit.

    Your mouth is moving but you're not making any sense.

    Hey, I'm not the one making extremely aggressive use of language.

    Rather, I think you part believe what you say and also part have found that what you say irritates others, perhaps irrationally.

    Put another way, you definitely enjoys your trolling.

  4. lostand confused


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    4   8:04pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (1)  

    dodgerfanjohn says

    I don't think Christians...and lets be clear here...your use of the term Conservatives here means exactly "Born again Protestant Christian"....hate anyone.
    I think theres a pretty large gap between "I don't think gays should be married" to "I hate people and want them to die". Theres even a really large gap between "I don't like gays" and "I want gays to die".

    dodgerfanjohn says

    IMO it really won't be too long before we see drastic changes in what is considered freedom of speech. I'm already seeing situations where people are asking to move with like minded people. Where if you don't agree with the lifestyle someone else lives, your immediately branded as a person of "hate". Where you are considered an inappropriate parent if you fail to teach your children an appropriately "tolerant" point of view as part of their upbringing.

    I just don't get this republican viewpoint. Look around you, so much time and money has been spent in legislation against gays. Preventing them from getting married, preventing them from visitng loved ones in hospitals, preventing them from adopting kids, calling them all sorts of names. So they fight back and the conservative position is -oh my God my free speech rights are being violated-oh my God the constitution-oh, oh my God-swoon..

    The most dramatic drag queen could not compete with some of these republicans. The first amendment works like this-you say what you want and the gays/whoever say what they want. Not you say what you want and they are supposed to shut up and agree with whatever you say. If you don't like what they say-come up with a better argument.

  5. dodgerfanjohn


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    5   8:09pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    lostand confused says

    violated-oh my God the constitution-oh, oh my God-swoon..
    The most dramatic drag queen could not compete with some of these republicans. The first amendment works like this-you

    And then there is the key word "some".

    Personally, I am Christian.

    But I do not presume to know what God wants or does not want. He has given us guidelines by which to live. He has not given us instructions to determine who is or is not Christian and who is or is not saved.

    If someone is gay...and all indications are that it is indeed caused by a combinations of genetic and environmental factors....its not within the scope of my understanding to judge that person.

    If you spoke with Christians in depth, and I'll admit that sometimes there are many layers to peel through, you will find more often than not their understanding will be the same as mine.

    What is portrayed in the media is intentional and is from people who desire media attention.

    Me personally, I have no agenda against anyone for the way they choose to live, provided they do not hurt others.

    Preventing from adoption and marriage...I can see where it comes from although I do not entirely agree with that agenda. Everything else, I think is hyperbole and smoke and mirrors. At least in any sort of mass numbers.

  6. Homeboy


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    6   11:22pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (1)  

    dodgerfanjohn says

    -that government ought not dictate what goes on between consenting adults behind closed doors.
    -freedom of press.
    -very strong support of free speech.

    Basically an overall belief that as long as someone is doing or saying something that doesn't hurt anyone else, they ought to be able to do it and society and government should protect that person and their right to express themselves.

    But that has diminished a great deal. The hatred by some of the left wing posters on this site is quite palpable. There is a STRONG intolerance of the ideas of others.

    This is utter nonsense. The simple act of disagreeing with another is not an abridgment of free speech. You are extremely confused.

  7. dodgerfanjohn


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    7   7:52am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Dan8267 says

    dodgerfanjohn says

    Exactly when did "liberals" decide to stop being tolerant?

    Never

    dodgerfanjohn says

    The hatred by some of the left wing posters on this site is quite palpable. There is a STRONG intolerance of the ideas of others.

    And there's your problem. You think "left" and "liberal" mean the same thing. They don't.

    A liberal believes that people should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want with absolutely no interference from government as long as they are not harming another or infringing upon another's rights (actually, these two things are the same).

    I think this is probably the most correct answer in the entire thread.

  8. zzyzzx


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    8   8:02am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    IMO, Liberals have never been tolerant and are really only pro-choice on abortion. On everything else they want the government to decide what's best for you.

  9. dodgerfanjohn


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    9   4:18pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    LOL thank you for proving my point.

  10. mell


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    10   5:51pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    I'm never going to be "tolerant" of people wanting to turn this great nation into a Southern Baptist version of Taliban-controlled Aghanistan/Pakistan or the outright theocracy of KSA, Iran and now Iraq.

    As screwed up as you think some of the southern baptist folks you mention may be, to compare them with Islamic fundamentalists is just disingenious. I'd take living in a deeply christian southern state in the US anytime over a theocracy in the middle-east and so would you.

  11. Entitlemented


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    11   7:22pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Conservatism is about conserving best concepts.

    Liberalism is now a combination of Democracy, and a Aristocrasy as defined by Montesquie.

    Furthermore, while the War from 911 was misguided, and concerns terrorist planning secret missions, and hiding, Clinton shares some of the blame due to not get OBL when it was known.

    Further, the CRA, and the Repeal of Glass Stegall were complete Democrat engineered changes: http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/24/us/deal-on-bank-bill-was-helped-along-by-midnight-talks.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    The liberals did NAFTA, and also the CRA, in which the bad faith loans quickly became the norm in the FHA and private loans. There is a reason why 20% went away around 1998, and the only reason is the CRA and its influences.

  12. CaptainShuddup


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    12   7:25pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    You're clearly an uneducated, obese middle aged white guy, with a family. But it's nothing joining a Union wont fix.

  13. dodgerfanjohn


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    13   7:38pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    CaptainShuddup says

    clearly an uneducated, obese middle aged white guy, with a family. But it's nothing joining a Union wont

    Assuming you are addressing me,

    I'm slightly below middle aged, I'm overweight but not morbidly obese, I am caucasian, I have a BS, and I am a union member.

    My advice is to discontinue prognosticating until you're good at it. Or even halfway decent.

    Particularly considering I've posted all of the above and its easily accessible by reading through my past postings.

  14. dodgerfanjohn


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    14   7:42pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    lostand confused says

    Whatever happened to stating your opinion and letting the chips fall where they may. Conservatives - I hate gays, I think they are an abomination, I don't care if a gay couple has been together for three decades-they better not be visiting their partner on their death bed, they cannot get married, they cannot adopt kids yada, yada. Now for these opinions and laws, everyone should love me, oh why are people so intolerant, why do they hate me so -oh the intolerance!!!

    I don't think Christians...and lets be clear here...your use of the term Conservatives here means exactly "Born again Protestant Christian"....hate anyone.

    I think theres a pretty large gap between "I don't think gays should be married" to "I hate people and want them to die". Theres even a really large gap between "I don't like gays" and "I want gays to die".

  15. Bellingham Bill


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    15   7:57pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    dodgerfanjohn says

    Theres even a really large gap between "I don't like gays" and "I want gays to die".

    but there is no gap when conservatives cross the line and legislate their Bronze Age morality.

    The funny thing is, they are only concerned with enforcing their law on others -- Old Testament morality for thee and not for me.

    And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. -- Leviticus 20:10

    Too bad, General Petraeus was such a nice man.

  16. CaptainShuddup


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    16   8:23pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    dodgerfanjohn says

    I'm slightly below middle aged, I'm overweight but not morbidly obese, I am caucasian, I have a BS, and I am a union member.

    Then is sound like you're in the all clear, with the Liberal shitlist.

  17. dodgerfanjohn


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    17   11:40pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Wow, absolutely awesome how several posters go on to prove my point....

    Hey, its fine to disagree, but if I think you are incorrect, imma shout you down, use any angle I can to disparage and mischaracterize you and insta invalidate your opinion.

    MSNBC.

    Amirite?

  18. dodgerfanjohn


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    18   11:41pm Sun 25 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Homeboy says

    dodgerfanjohn says

    -that government ought not dictate what goes on between consenting adults behind closed doors.

    -freedom of press.

    -very strong support of free speech.

    Basically an overall belief that as long as someone is doing or saying something that doesn't hurt anyone else, they ought to be able to do it and society and government should protect that person and their right to express themselves.

    But that has diminished a great deal. The hatred by some of the left wing posters on this site is quite palpable. There is a STRONG intolerance of the ideas of others.

    This is utter nonsense. The simple act of disagreeing with another is not an abridgment of free speech. You are extremely confused.

    You entirely misunderstood my posting.

  19. dodgerfanjohn


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    19   7:55am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    iwog says

    dodgerfanjohn says

    You entirely misunderstood my posting.

    Which would ordinarily be followed by a discussion of his misunderstanding which you will absolutely refuse to give.

    Do you know why people on the right feel persecuted? Because they confuse a blind assertion with an argument and they get upset when people don't agree with them.

    GOP: X is true.

    Liberal: You're wrong.

    GOP: Stop trying to intimidate me and limit my speech!

    Really? I have to explain why OP confuses freedom of speech as deliniated in the 1st amendment of the constitution with liberal tolerance?

    Homeboy posted "The simple act of disagreeing with another is not an abridgment of free speech".

    In otherwords he builds a strawman. I never argued about anyone abridging free speech.

  20. dodgerfanjohn


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    20   7:57am Mon 26 Nov 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    iwog says

    dodgerfanjohn says

    Wow, absolutely awesome how several posters go on to prove my point....

    You have yet to provide any argument that even attempts to support your point. You think that just saying it makes it true.

    Example: You haven't given one single instance of anyone doing anything to limit any speech in any media while simultaneously accusing people of shutting down speech. This is retarded. That's my free speech opinion.

    dodgerfanjohn says

    Hey, its fine to disagree, but if I think you are incorrect, imma shout you down, use any angle I can to disparage and mischaracterize you and insta invalidate your opinion.

    You invalidate your own opinion when you refuse to support it.

    Not really. The spew you, and in particular Bellingham Bill went on are beyond my scope to argue with, mostly due to my own time constraints along with the limitations presented by the Pat.net posting format.

    Of course you knew that(the pat.net) posting restrictions before you even posted. Which is one of the many reasons you are a troll.

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