WatchHi guys,
As the old adage states, "Can't live with them, can't live without them."
For the guys that are married now or have been married, I'm wondering what your experience has been and if you could give a newly engaged man (hypothetical to me since I am not engaged) any piece of advise or wisdom, what would it be?
I love my GF, but for a few minutes I'm going to zoom out and look at things from a more technical, statistical, and less emotional point of view.
To be honest, I am a bit discouraged at just how many people I know who don't seem to be too happy in their marriages. It always seems to be the same story. Things started off great. There was excitement, adventure, strong physical and emotional chemistry. Then 2-3yrs into it, those feels started to fade. Some couples moved on to the next phase of their lives and had some glue, er I mean kids which kept things fresh and exciting.
I saw a plot in the newspaper several years back that showed divorce statistics as a function of time. There is a spike early on in the marriage (first couple of years), then one at 7 years (7-year itch), and one at about year 18-20 (when the glue is all grown up). If you make it past that, you are fairly safe (not necessarily happy, but likelihood of divorce is low). Some of that is influenced by the fact that you don't have the same options at 45 or 50 as you do at 25 or 30. Sucks, but that's the truth.
I recall reading a book by psycologist Scott Peck that studied the term "Love." He argues that 100% of relationships fall out of love, usually pretty early on in the first few years. The feeling of love is not true love then. The conscious decision to love someone once you lose the "in love" feeling is what real love is all about.
Regarding statistics, 50% of couples who get married in this country wind up in divorce (To be fair, some of those aren't 1st marriages so that 50% number isn't quite as bad as it seems - The reason is that 2nd marriages have a higher divorce rate than 1st marriages and 3rd marriages have a higher divorce rate than 2nd marriages). Moving on, if 50% of couples get divorced, then 50% of couples don't get divorced. Surely those 50% that remain together aren't all happy marriages? So then let's say that half of the marriages that stay together are happy. That means that 25% of couples getting married in the first place remain happy, lol. I really don't like the odds here!
But anytime you get into this debate, you have to get into the alternative, being alone into older age. As much as I see my folks fight and bicker, I tend to think it's better than the alternative (at least for the level they fight and bicker).
A while back Patrick argued that the average person remains in their purchased home for no more than 6-7 years. He said, you might think you are different, but statistically you are not. Same thing goes for divorce. Nobody goes into marriage thinking they will get a divorce. But statistically, 1 in 2 people do in the USA.
What do you guys think?
As a side note, I am really curious about the following. What is the divorce rate assuming the following:
Both Members are devout Catholic ?
Both Members are devout Christian ?
Both Members are devout Muslim ?
Both Members are Atheist ?
Members don't share religious beliefs ?
Follow
Befriend (5)
31 threads
2,234 comments
Premium
Bap33 says
Bop69, I have literally never met anyone who spent as much time "wondering" about "male/male coupling" as you do. You can't stop "wondering," but your early religious programming inhibits you from going ahead and doing, so you become obsessed. It's sad to watch. Of all the users on PatNet, I've only ever seen one other who had your problem, and alas I worry about him because of his references to slitting his own throat.
In other countries, you guys could be married already. Alas in this one you remain trapped by your early indoctrination.
Follow
Befriend (5)
168 threads
5,070 comments
iwog says
I don't understand why this argument is happening here. Aids has been around since the early 80s. How can any halfway intelligent adult, not have been curious enough to already be fully informed on this. Especially if they were sexually active at all during the decades since then.
I mean wtf ?
I'm trying to think of any subject that a person would naturally want to be more informed about.
Time magazine has had 7 cover stories on the subject in the past 30 years.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/06/02/aids-from-the-archives-for-30-years-time-covers-the-epidemic/
(Pick any major periodical)
Nothing Iwog is saying is new. It's pretty consistent with what everyone has known for 15 or 20 years.
Follow
Befriend (5)
31 threads
2,234 comments
Premium
marcus says
The suggestion that any pandemic could be eradicated anywhere without a vaccine is, to say the least, "new". As your link shows, more than 30 million people have died, and the other links above show more than 30 million remain infected. To put that in perspective, 30 million is more than the entire population of Canada. Possibly the only disease ever successfully eradicated is smallpox, and the task was accomplished by developing and distributing a vaccine that worked even in people who were already infected.
Also, to Iwog's credit, he is right about the fact that drugs can reduce the risk of transmission. That is a quite recent finding, really only in the last few years.
I like and respect Iwog, but I've noticed that he tends to have more confidence than most people. That has probably contributed to his success, but in his work he's probably seen plenty of people whose misplaced confidence resulted in their bankruptcy. Different people can look at the same set of facts, and some will feel cautious while others feel sanguine. Market bulls tend to have more confidence than bears, but that doesn't tell you which is more likely to be right.
Returning to the original topic, I wonder if there may be a correlation between confidence and staying married. One commenter talked about his divorce and said "never trust," but he had already arranged his finances so as to shield them from possible creditors. I suspect that more confident people are more likely to get married, and may also be more likely to stay married.
Follow
Befriend (3)
12 threads
600 comments
I am not a guy but, marriage is a lot of putting up with each other and having fun with that. Joke laugh fight cry. The 5 things that spur a fight for us are stress, hunger, tired, confused, jealousy. Recognize those and get over it. Been married close to 18 years, known each other 22 years. The itches happen just like you said in your writing. Had kids after 8 years, that can be trying too. Until they go to school and get out of the house and give you a break. Having kids can be overwhelming, especially if they are very active ones. The kids get better with age, IMO. Once they speak your language it starts to get easier. 0-5 rough, 5-8 great! I don't know the rest yet.
Follow
Befriend (3)
12 threads
3,095 comments
New Renter says
lol .. atta boy
Follow
Befriend (12)
140 threads
1,355 comments
Emeryville, CA
KILLERJANE says
We have been together for 16-17 years, married for ~9. I think waiting was good...why? Just because it felt right. I think that's the key, not to rush anything unless you want to.
Follow
Befriend (48)
273 threads
12,494 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
I can not in good conscious encourage my son to marry an American woman. I'm going to ship him down to South America after high school and let nature take its course.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
Women from developing countries do not have a sense of humor.
Follow
Befriend
63 threads
480 comments
Simi Valley, CA
Peter P says
a man only needs 3 things from his woman:
1) good food
2) sex anytime
3) silence
Follow
Befriend
4 threads
206 comments
A women only need TWO things from a man:
1. Unlimited access to his wallet
2. His understanding of her frequent headaches
but..as a bonus he should adhere to these rules:
3. Will watch rom-cons and chick flicks
4. Loves to shop only in the fanciest malls.. and we are talking 5 hours at a time and will patiently wait as she tries on clothes and rush back to the racks to get her different sizes
5. Will do dishes and dust (cleaning toilet bowl is a plus)
6. Lets her have the remote (I know that's a tough one!)
Follow
Befriend (12)
10 threads
3,516 comments
Oakland, CA
leo707's website
Premium
curious2 says
For now, but don't worry drug resistant Syphilis is on its way.
Follow
Befriend (12)
140 threads
1,355 comments
Emeryville, CA
iwog says
That's heteronormative talk! iwog says
That's biased too! Aren't South Americans just as American as their friends to the North?
J'accuse!
Follow
Befriend (48)
273 threads
12,494 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
CL says
I hope not.
Follow
Befriend (48)
273 threads
12,494 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
leo707 says
Nope. Little known fact about Syphilis. It's the ONE bacterial infection that has shown no interest at all in evolving any resistance.
It is still treated to this day with the granddaddy antibiotic of them all: Penicillin.
Follow
Befriend (3)
13 threads
2,201 comments
San Jose, CA
Premium
MsBennet says
Yeah, good luck with THAT!
Follow
Befriend (3)
13 threads
2,201 comments
San Jose, CA
Premium
iwog says
What, syphilis?
Follow
Befriend (23)
55 threads
3,780 comments
Scottsdale, AZ
robertoaribas's website
iwog says
Make sure he:
a. learns spanish (or maybe portugues... some time we'll meet for a beer and I'll tell you about my months in brazil)
b. NEVER brings the girl back here. EVER. they figure out that things are different here.. and that, unlike brazil or venezuela, here they are exotic and hot... and that noboby looks down on divorce, and they get half the money...
Follow
Befriend (2)
7 threads
530 comments
Belmont, CA
Behind every great man is a great woman.
Men have traits. Women do too. The current police state wants us to pretend this isnt the case, but it is.
Good women compliment men, and help build great families. I couldnt imagine anything but abject failure as a father if my wife wasnt around to make things work.
Follow
Befriend (2)
7 threads
530 comments
Belmont, CA
robertoaribas says
This shows a lack of trust. This also shows that you do not believe in goodness or good character.
This tells me what I've always suspected. You like to control others. You like to make them do what you want. And you would be willing to suggest to someone to deny their wife an experience for deceptive reasons.
Wow. Fascinating.
Follow
Befriend (2)
7 threads
530 comments
Belmont, CA
iwog says
The greedy stuff you do, like live off the ill gotten rentier income scammed off the working class, is the reason you dont like American woman. The credit card using greedy selfish types.
The mirror is tough to be married to.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
Mark D says
A good wife is a funny soulmate.
Follow
Befriend (23)
55 threads
3,780 comments
Scottsdale, AZ
robertoaribas's website
Mick Russom says
and that shows you can't fucking read. We can add that to the long list of things you aren't good at, like economic analysis, or being a success.
I LOVE living in simpler places. I grew up in spain, and poor people would share their dinner with you.
In thailand, when I was lost on my motorbike in a small southern town, a group of muslim girls on scooters went 30 minutes out of their way to lead me to my desitination.
In Amererica, what I see is people who will speed up their car to keep you from changing lanes when you put on a signal. Risk your life passing within two inches of you on a bicycle rather than be delayed for 10 seconds. Merge into the offramp, then cut back in at the last second to move a few cars ahead in line.
I've never seen more people who will step on someone else than here. I've never seen more people who will do ANYTHING to pretend to be rich, than in the US of A. Leased bmw's and rolexes on credit cards for people one paycheck away form eviction.
You piss and moan continuously about rent, go move to fucking cuba already. You're boring and stupid. Both the renter and the landlord agree up front about the contract, they are both adults. Even China and Russia and Vietnam all gave up on your dumbass theories of communist property rights.
Peter P says
more bullshit, I've never seen people have a better time than in the philippines. A karaoke machine and some friends, a few cheap gallons of beer, and in a no running water shack, everybody has fun.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
robertoaribas says
That is not the same as a sense of humor.
They don't even get puns.
I can't respect women who see no ironies and/or parodies in life.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
robertoaribas says
Unless they are after your stuff. The extent of selective enforcement in those countries is mind-boggling.
Follow
Befriend (48)
273 threads
12,494 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
Mick Russom says
Naw, not really. I married a gem. It's the men and women who come into my office that give me insight.
I'll even concede that perhaps 40% of American chicks have potential to be good mates. However those odds suck in my opinion so I'm going to act accordingly.
As for you, I suggest you let go of some of your hate before it wrecks you.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
iwog says
40% is too high in ANY culture.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
If you don't like women in the US just head North. There is much to like aboot ladies in Canada.
Follow
Befriend (2)
7 threads
530 comments
Belmont, CA
robertoaribas says
Swearing, ad hominem attacks, and waxing about how great life is in other countries.
I never said communism and no property rights. However, you may think the use of rentier means commie. NOPE. You dont get it.
What I dont want is YOU using MY MONEY to leverage to EXPLOIT ME. Why should you take credit to buy up all the resources, basically, buy up the watering hole, and charge a toll?
If you are really daddy Warbucks, BUY the property. Rent it out, and dont try everything in your power to reduce your tax load and deny improvements to tenants to skim off the top.
The notion of property rights when if everything defaults all the paper (titles and deeds) would end up in the banks hands is hardly individual liberty.
In fact, you're benefiting from a very sophisticated version of socialized risk.
Communists are foolish ideologues. On the other side of the spectrum are the rapists. People who climb to the top by stepping on everyone on the way up, not uplifting people.
You are the same kind of person that kept Tucker (the automibile guy) down. Any threat to how your business operates, kill it. Any way possible.
Never-mind that by keeping tucker down the american car industry made itself long term noncompetitive, by pushing down innovation and change for the better to keep the status quo.
Wage slavery to overpriced housing in an economy made from disposable income is stupid. It makes it hard for people like me, people who need time to innovate, work extra hard at making the next best thing wrapped in a greedy business model for you banking types.
Cure for cancer? No, cant have that, we have to make money off of the cure before we can release it.
You remind me of this guy:
Follow
Befriend (2)
7 threads
530 comments
Belmont, CA
iwog says
I suggest that you stop pretending you care about others. You dont. When you can admit you are just a version of Gordon Gecko wrapped in self deception, some political dogma and a dash of wealth, I'd be a happy guy.
Carlin was cool. you knew he made bucks doing his thing, but he never once stopped talking about the real issues, the issue you gloss over, or ignore, because it suits you. He never allowed money to pervert the reality for joe 6-pack.
You seem to be a sociopathic narcissist. And judging from the ridiculous frequency you poast here when I drop in something is clearly wrong.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
Stop blaming investors for all the problems. They are merely responding to the market. Besides, greed is right. Greed drives the human evolution.
Follow
Befriend (3)
5 threads
172 comments
Ambition is good, greed isn't.
Follow
Befriend (3)
5 threads
172 comments
And just to make it clear because some people don't know the difference.
ex.
Ambition: Starting your own successful company.
Greed: Your employees make minimum wage and no benefits.
Follow
Befriend (3)
12 threads
3,095 comments
you didn't start that company
Success in business/life: Doing what others cant do, doing it better/faster/cheaper/ and/or in the most desired manner.
Failure in business/life: Trading self-respect for success. Ever.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
epitaph says
They are the same thing. You do what it takes to make your business successful. Employees can choose to work for the conditions or not.
That said, treating people well usually pays dividends. But it is a separate issue.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
Bap33 says
Very well said.
Follow
Befriend (3)
5 threads
172 comments
Peter P says
If treating people well worked then minimum wage wouldn't exist since all successful businesses would pay their employees a fair wage. This scenario is obviously far from reality. They aren't the same thing.
Follow
Befriend (4)
117 threads
17,655 comments
Premium
epitaph says
Yes. Abolish minimum wage!
If the natural wage ends up being lower then it is just a market reality.
And market wage is always fair.
Follow
Befriend (3)
12 threads
3,095 comments
there is no such thing as "fair" as wanted by equal out-comers. All that American freedom allows is equal chances to fail, not equal chances to succeed. People are born naked, and that is the only part that is the same and fair. Some win the DNA lottery, some win the birthplace lottery, some win the dowery lottery, and some win all three. Aint nothing fair about life other than born naked and a certian death. In America one may overcome their original delt hand, just as one may throw away a full house. It's called liberty ... freedom .... and it's really cool.
Follow
Befriend (2)
3 threads
546 comments
Madison, WI
Nice post Bap.
We went through the love period of the 70's, that was the end of that, then progressed into the digger age, which we are currently stuck in. The feminist era where 75% of women expect the men to cow tow to her revelry, need and whim. Now look at our debt and spending problems as the government picks up the tab for whatever seed she chooses, marriage nor good men no longer required, or even, really wanted. As they say, every dog has it's day!
Peter P says
Follow
Befriend (48)
273 threads
12,494 comments
47 male
Lafayette, CA
Premium
Mick Russom says
Mick Russom says
LOL