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Kids are horrible investments


By Peter P   Follow   Sat, 29 Dec 2012, 10:07am PST   5,894 views   102 comments   Watch (2)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (6)   Dislike (1)  

Kids cost a fortune to raise. Besides, they make you less adaptable to changes. They also increase your risk exposure in the unlikely event of a divorce. Kids are harmful to the environment because overpopulation creates all kinds of ills.

Is there even any tangible upside in having children?

* If you care about genetics, we are all 99.9% identical anyway.
* If you want followers, starting a religion is more practical.
* If you want a small and cute companion, get a pet.
* If you want to keep your surname alive, write a fucking novel. (Or better yet, start an immortal corporation.)

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ttsmyf   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 3:10am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 63

"Do you know folks who had kids to have somebody to sell high to?"
http://occupywallst.org/your-collective-brainwashability-is-repulsive/

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 3:12am PST   Share   Quote   Like (4)   Dislike (1)     Comment 64

Dan8267 says

The idiots suing him should be made to pay 10 times the asked for "child support" to the man.

Those Idiots you speak of, are the State of Kansas. I know it's FOX and all, but you should still read it.

The Lezbo couple have since broke up, and the dude of the couple was left with the kids, and she is now ill and unable to work since March of this year. They also adopted 6 Kids, that's 6 freaking kids, as some social experiement while her and her Mangirl set up house and tried to play Man and Wife. One of them grew bored and stuck the other one with all of the crap they created. Just like for realzies. She is now filling for financial aide, and one of the tools States now have to help with welfare of needy Kids, is to go after the Father of the kids, even if the Mother doesn't cooperate. Justice is blind and all of that. Which is WHY it should be VERY important that Liberals think more about the shit they try to ram through in blind legislation. Because you never know when it will bite you in the ass. I can only hope this Clown voted for Obama and has "Legalize gay marriage" T-Shirt.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 3:29am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 65

CaptainShuddup says

I know it's FOX and all, but you should still read it.

I'll admit it. Since it was Fox, I didn't read it. That propaganda organization states so many falsehoods that I automatically ignore links to it.

But, ok, so it's not the legal guardians of the child who are at fault. The individual assholes in the Kentucky government who filed the suit each should be made to pay the donor 10 times the amount they asked for. Garnish their wages and throw them in jail if they fail to pay this amount.

Turnabout is fair play.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 3:33am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 66

Here's a solution: Don't donate your sperm. There are plenty of kids that need adopting. What a narcissistic practice that is.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 3:33am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 67

Marotta — who has relinquished all parental rights, including financial responsibility, under the 2009 agreement — said he’s preparing for a lengthy legal fight that has already cost him several thousand dollars. He expects it will likely “put a damper on things” for other people considering the same move

The state of Kentucky should also be made to pay this guy's legal fees regardless of the verdict simply for filing this suit. And if they lose, which they should, they should also pay this guy 100 times his legal fees as compensation for the duress he endured.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 3:35am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 68

Moderate Infidel says

Here's a solution: Don't donate your sperm. There are plenty of kids that need adopting. What a narcissistic practice that is.

The exact same thing can be said about all reproduction regardless of whether or not the sperm was donated.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 3:44am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 69

Dan8267 says

Moderate Infidel says

Here's a solution: Don't donate your sperm. There are plenty of kids that need adopting. What a narcissistic practice that is.

The exact same thing can be said about all reproduction regardless of whether or not the sperm was donated.

True, but if you control who the sperm is going into then you have no excuses later. Assuming your putting your sperm into a lady because you are choosing to procreate. If not then you must accept the consequences.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 4:03am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 70

Moderate Infidel says

True, but if you control who the sperm is going into then you have no excuses later.

Who said this donor is making excuses? He consented to donating his sperm, not to paying for the child's upbringing. To argue that he "must accept the consequences", whatever undisclosed consequences you are implying, is like arguing that a woman who dresses provocatively deserves to get raped. It's a completely bogus argument.

Consent to be a DNA donor is not consent to be a financial donor. The legal financial liability rests solely in the legal guardians who agreed to raise the child at their expense. The "consequences" were spelled out explicitly and precisely in a black-and-white contract.

The state has no right to demand any money from the donor, period. The state is simply trying to use the violence of the state to extort money from someone. This should be illegal.

Dr Strangelove   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 4:22am PST   Share   Quote   Like (4)   Dislike (1)     Comment 71

I decided to not have kids several years ago and had a vasectomy. I still think it's one of the best decisions of my life.

A couple of months ago I came across my ex wife at the grocery store. We divorced 20+ years ago, part of it due to my reluctance to have kids right away (I was still "on the fence" at that time).

After the divorce, I chose to put the lion's share of my time, energy and dollars into getting my college education culminating in my Master's (I'm not waving my own flag here, its just that I don't know if I would have pulled-off my GPA let alone do it at all had I opted for children). Promply after graduation I secured a Professional career, which I'm still happily engaged in.

One of the things that struck me in my years at college were the plethora of harried-looking single Mothers trying to balance single life, kids and college. I tutored many of them and got the inside scoop on the soul-sucking lifestyle most of them led-which really opened my eyes.

So I see my wife at the grocery store a couple months back, and she looked about 10 years beyond her age. A lot of pain in her eyes and utterly exhausted looking. She then confided in me that her two Daughters were hopelessly addicted to drugs, one in rehab, the other they were trying to track down to force into rehab. During the conversation, she would remark on how good I looked, which felt nice, but more importantly, bolstered the decision I made years ago; instead of having kids, which I believe is estimated to cost between 150-250K over 18 years (add to that figure for each additional child), I opted the more hedonistic route of economic independence and the freedom it offers.

Some say not having kids is "selfish." I believe people can have kids for "selfish" reasons as well, and am mystified we live in a country where you have to buy a "license" to go catch a fish, but any completely lazy, clueless moron--not fit to raise a hamster let alone a child--can make a baby at will.

I'm not knocking having kids, in fact I believe its probably one of the most rewarding and fulfilling experiences life can offer and am aware that some families are able to live comfortably economically and are able to avoid many of the uncontrollable negatives other families endure from raising kids. Nevertheless, looking at the macro-political-economic environment over the last 30 years, I opted for a different path.

DOC

Ironman   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 4:41am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (3)     Comment 72

Dr Strangelove says

and am mystified we live in a country where you have to buy a "license" to go catch a fish, but any completely lazy, clueless moron--not fit to raise a hamster let alone a child--can make a baby at will.

Now that's just funny AND sad at the same time.....

Peter P   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 5:18am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 73

Moderate Infidel says

Procreating and multiplying is what living organisms do.

Accept your function.

Existence precedes essence.

Peter P   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 5:21am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 74

We need a child license system.

Or better yet... cap-and-trade birth permit.

Peter P   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 5:29am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 75

We need to abolish the child support system.

Women need to think twice before allowing themselves to be impregnated.

CL   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 6:03am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 76

Be careful what you wish for! All of those unwanted children make our clothing, clean Newt Gingrich's schools, and fill a vital role in the sex tourism trade.

New Renter   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 10:18am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 77

Peter P says

We need to abolish the child support system.

Women need to think twice before allowing themselves to be impregnated.

Actually what we need are:

1) condoms that don't suck (no pun intended).
2) encourage all men to have vasectomies until they are REALLY, REALLY sure they want kids
3) release a male birth control pill that works:
http://theweek.com/article/index/232186/a-male-birth-control-pill-that-doesnt-kill-sex-drive
4) public service announcements showing men losing their shirts to child support.

Patrick   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 10:24am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 78

Dr Strangelove says

am mystified we live in a country where you have to buy a "license" to go catch a fish, but any completely lazy, clueless moron--not fit to raise a hamster let alone a child--can make a baby at will.

I was pretty shocked about that too when the hospital just handed over our first child a day after the birth and said bye.

The only thing they checked on was that we had an infant car seat.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 10:29am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 79

New Renter says

Peter P says

We need to abolish the child support system.

Women need to think twice before allowing themselves to be impregnated.

Actually what we need are:

1) condoms that don't suck (no pun intended).

2) encourage all men to have vasectomies until they are REALLY, REALLY sure they want kids

3) release a male birth control pill that works:

http://theweek.com/article/index/232186/a-male-birth-control-pill-that-doesnt-kill-sex-drive

4) public service announcements showing men losing their shirts to child support.

None of that would decrease the number of kids born, as you are targeting males. Unless you take away the right to reproduce and can enforce sterilization, there will always be one male willing and able to impregnate a thousand women. Nothing less than 100% prevention of all males from reproducing will put a dent in reproduction as the one guy you don't stop will handle all the demand.

If your goal is to lower the birth rate, you have to address female reproductive opportunity and that's a lot less politically acceptable. Nevertheless, it's the only effective strategy as it takes a woman 9 months to produce a child whereas a guy only spends 5 seconds doing his part.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 10:43am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 80

Dan8267 says

Who said this donor is making excuses? He consented to donating his sperm, not to paying for the child's upbringing. To argue that he "must accept the consequences",

Out of context buddy. I meant if he knowingly puts his sperm in someone then he accepts the consequences.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 10:45am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 81

Dan8267 says

whereas a guy only spends 5 seconds doing his part.

This is where a condom might help! It makes you last longer. Who are you? Charles Bukowski?

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 10:57am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 82

Moderate Infidel says

Out of context buddy. I meant if he knowingly puts his sperm in someone then he accepts the consequences.

The consequences, as I stated above, were explicitly listed in the contract and financial commitment was not one of them. The state has no right to impose this after the fact.

It is perfectly legitimate for a man and a woman to agree to reproduce through sperm donation without any other commitment, responsibilities, or rights for the man. If both parties willingly consent, hell seek out, this arrangement, then the state has absolutely no right to interfere with it. In fact, such interference prevents other people in the future from exercising their right to make such an arrangement.

Moderate Infidel says

This is where a condom might help! It makes you last longer. Who are you? Charles Bukowski?

You've missed the point entirely. A man who wants to father a thousand children -- certainly not me! -- can easily do so at 5 seconds a pop. And there certainly are plenty of men out there who do want to spread their seed like that. The point is that it only takes a single male with such intentions to completely undo the effectiveness of all of New Renter's proposals.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 12:16pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 83

Dan8267 says

You've missed the point entirely

I think that would be you sir.
You didn't get my ultra hip Bukowski reference.

New Renter   befriend   ignore   Mon, 31 Dec 2012, 1:20pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 84

Dan8267 says

None of that would decrease the number of kids born, as you are targeting males. Unless you take away the right to reproduce and can enforce sterilization, there will always be one male willing and able to impregnate a thousand women. Nothing less than 100% prevention of all males from reproducing will put a dent in reproduction as the one guy you don't stop will handle all the demand.

That's kind of like saying nobody should buy a fuel efficient car because all it takes is one asshole in an out-of-tune 6 MPG 1970 Olds 455 to undo all the fuel savings of 20 Volt drivers. That the Olds driver will drive that car no matter WHAT the other drivers do so the Volt drivers might as well dump the Volts and buy Hummers for the same price. The Volt driver saves gas, gets a more comfortable car and may even get to use the carpool lane passing the asshole stuck in traffic.

elliemae   befriend   ignore   Tue, 1 Jan 2013, 1:12pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 85

Dr Strangelove says

So I see my wife at the grocery store a couple months back, and she looked about 10 years beyond her age. A lot of pain in her eyes and utterly exhausted looking. She then confided in me that her two Daughters were hopelessly addicted to drugs, one in rehab, the other they were trying to track down to force into rehab. During the conversation, she would remark on how good I looked, which felt nice, but more importantly, bolstered the decision I made years ago; instead of having kids, which I believe is estimated to cost between 150-250K over 18 years (add to that figure for each additional child), I opted the more hedonistic route of economic independence and the freedom it offers.

People tell me that I look 10-15 years younger than I am. I make a good salary for my profession, and neither of my kids are in rehab or drug addicted. My point is that the point that you're at in your life might be due to lack of children or it might be in spite of not having children.

I believe that my life is richer because of my kids, and have wonderful memories with them that are more valuable than anything else I own.

They were horrible investments - children are selfish little creatures who are want lots of stuff, and as a parent you get it for them. And here's the kicker - you actually want to get it for them. In fact, you go out of the way to get them stuff, and pay them attention and give them your time even if you don't have it. You go to events that they're interested in or participating in, and you pretend to enjoy the movies they love and...

Well, I think you get the point. Kids are awesome.

But if you don't want them, don't have them. The lawsuit for the sperm donor is bullshit, because the guy didn't participate in the process and had no relationship with the women involved. He shouldn't be held responsible at all.

Peter P   befriend   ignore   Tue, 1 Jan 2013, 1:35pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 86

I wonder if there will be a "Make love, not babies" campaign. :-)

rdm   befriend   ignore   Tue, 1 Jan 2013, 7:34pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 87

Yes, children are for most a financial burden and from that standpoint a poor investment. They also crimp and determine much of your social life for years. They bring every cold and flu home and spread it to you and their siblings. the list of negatives goes on and on.

In the end they can change you by bringing you out of your world of vanity and self love to something different in your relationship with another person. This relationship must be experienced to be understood it goes beyond the love one might experience with a lover, it is of a different level. So if you are satisfied with your life and don't want to change don't have children

However, children also provide something else that has virtually no downside, cannot be acquired without them, and are truly wonderful. The payback for the burden imposed by raising children...grandchildren.

elliemae   befriend   ignore   Tue, 1 Jan 2013, 10:26pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 88

rdm says

The payback for the burden imposed by raising children...grandchildren.

When I get mine, I will spoil the shit outta them and send 'em home to mommy & daddy. Can't wait.

The adult relationship I have with my kids is pretty awesome, too.

zzyzzx   befriend   ignore   Tue, 1 Jan 2013, 10:44pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 89

New Renter says

4) public service announcements showing men losing their shirts to child support.

Awesome! I think you could do a lot with this one. I would include testimonials.

ja   befriend   ignore   Tue, 1 Jan 2013, 11:22pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 90

Kids are an economic externalize, since we need them for the correct function of all society. Let's internalize it and make it rational. Higher tax rate after retirement for those without kids.

TechGromit   befriend   ignore   Tue, 1 Jan 2013, 11:44pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike