« previous   politics   next »

Another Welfare Abuse Example....Dems say 'Nothing wrong here


By AverageBear   Follow   Sun, 6 Jan 2013, 4:06am PST   7,191 views   112 comments
Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (6)  

....."Let’s not forget how the “scrubbing” began. Granny [LIZ} Warren’s daughter filed a lawsuit claiming the DTA hadn’t been proactive enough in registering the state’s assorted loafers and layabouts to vote for her carpetbagging fake-Indian mom. Then — bingo, the hacks located $274,000 for mailings, complete with post-paid envelopes for the gimme girls and guys to send back their voter registrations.

Have you ever gotten a post-paid envelope from the commonwealth? No, I didn’t think so. They’re not for taxpayers, just for the non-working classes to take part in a Democratic voter-registration drive."......

The Patrick administration has known about these appalling EBT numbers for months now. They were only released after this newspaper filed a Freedom of Information Act request. Which is the same way it was revealed that Lt. Gov. Tim Murray was doing 108 mph when he mysteriously crashed his state vehicle in November 2011."....

Guess what this revealed? Most likely, these fake welfare frauds are collecting from other states. Liberals here in Mass REFUSE to acknowledge welfare fraud, REFUSE to allow reform to uncover waste. This is what you get when democrats overwhelmingly run a 'one party state'...

...."Those 19,000 MIA’s collect — based on an average of $400 a month — $91 million a year. That’s the estimate of Rep. Shauna O’Connell (R-Taunton). But the governor Friday went into his best pooh-pooh mode.

“That may not be indicative of a problem,” he said with a straight face. “We’ll know when we do the scrubbing.”.......

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/columnists/howie_carr/2013/01/you_can%E2%80%99t_%E2%80%98scrub%E2%80%99_ebt_mess_dirty_rag

« First     « Previous     Comments 73-112 of 112     Last »

AverageBear   Fri, 8 Feb 2013, 2:08am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 73

Vicente says

You are indeed an Angry Bear.


Is shouting at strangers in a forum helping?

-----------------------
Vic, I didn't know you were so sensitive to CAPS. Sorry I hurt your feelings.....Sorry I didn't give you the warm and fuzzies in this thread.....

Kevin calls me a 'heartless-dick', and you get your panties in a twist because I occasionally use CAPS. I wish I could make this shit up.....The pussification of America rolls on......

AverageBear   Fri, 8 Feb 2013, 2:59am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 74

Vicente says

Bear's thread is all about the small-timer little fish.

-------------------------------------------------
I'm not talking about the welfare recipients themselves. I'm talking about Mass state gov't changing it's policies to correct the EBT cash problem. I don't blame the recipients. I blame my state gov't....which leads me to my next question...

Vic, you claim that I'm going after 'small potatos/chump change'. I'm curious. What percentage of my state budget would you consider 'chump change'?? 10%, 5%, 2 or 1%

Give me a clear # that in your mind, is the thresh-hold that defines 'chump change'....

Vicente   Fri, 8 Feb 2013, 3:13am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 75

AverageBear says

Vic, you claim that I'm going after 'small potatos/chump change'. I'm curious. What percentage of my state budget would you consider 'chump change'?? 10%, 5%, 2 or 1%

Mass. state budget approx 32 billion

Your original article talks about 4 percent of EBT recipients it COULD NOT LOCATE! Is this all fraud? What do they mean by that? I dunno, the article doesn't say. Phoned every last recipient on a Sunday, sent out cops looking for them? Did they investigate 19,000 cases and prove fraud? What? Well maybe the "article has been archived" thing and the shortness of it means whatever you read I cannot see.

Worst case every single one is fraud, 91 million dollars is probably far less than people spent on buying double whipped soy lattes in Mass. Starbucks. So yeah it's penny ante bullshit. Shit you spend 5 million just on the ADVERTISING BUDGET for your state lottery, and a more useless and wasteful and inefficient agency than state lotteries I cannot imagine.

I doubt grocery chains would care much about enforcement of your proposal. Game it out, what's the downside for the grocery chain for being permissive about it? They sell alcohol and cigarettes to obvious minors that's a BFD. They sell some food to "the wrong person" well they've still sold food and who gives a shit? Gift cards don't carry ID data. Unless you want a new type of card that IS a state-issued ID? Frankly I don't get how this works without being either ineffective CYA BS or an additional cost to the retailer.

David Losh   Sat, 9 Feb 2013, 1:22am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 76

AverageBear says

Specifically concerning Massachusetts?

Massachusetts seems to have a real problem with the welfare system. I don't know why so much attention is being paid to it, but I'm sure there are politics involved.

I did provide some links earlier, but will find the specifics.

David Losh   Sat, 9 Feb 2013, 2:29am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 77

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/over-60000-welfare-spentper-household-poverty_657889.html

This one is cumbersome, but says: "Another concern is the entangled bureaucracy of welfare. Currently governors have to ask the Federal government if they can revamp their state welfare system. And the federal bureaucracy costs money. If you took the money spent for welfare and gave it to poor families it would amount to $25,000 a year for every family of four."

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/welfare.html

This last one is a gem, that is dated, but clearly outlines the problem with welfare administration costs. This is our federal government at work driving up costs.

https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-05-91-01080.pdf

David Losh   Sat, 9 Feb 2013, 2:32am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 78

Massechusetts seems to be in the middle of the pack, but from the last report, or by all reports, it depends on how States spend the money they get.

What may be the case in your State is that they don't spend enough on staffing to police fraud, because the money is spent on your Health Care system, which was the basis of ObamaCare.

The Professor   Sat, 9 Feb 2013, 2:56am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 79

Total 2012 entitlement spending: $2,053,000,000,000.00
Us Population: 313,914,040
$6,540 in entitlement spending for every man, woman, and child in the US.

We could give every family of four in the United States $25,000 a year and still come out ahead.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/10/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2012

AverageBear   Mon, 11 Feb 2013, 5:33am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 80

Vicente says

Worst case every single one is fraud, 91 million dollars is probably far less
than people spent on buying double whipped soy lattes in Mass. Starbucks. So
yeah it's penny ante bullshit. Shit you spend 5 million just on the ADVERTISING
BUDGET for your state lottery, and a more useless and wasteful and inefficient
agency than state lotteries I cannot imagine.


I doubt grocery chains would care much about enforcement of your proposal.
Game it out, what's the downside for the grocery chain for being permissive
about it? They sell alcohol and cigarettes to obvious minors that's a BFD. They
sell some food to "the wrong person" well they've still sold food and who gives
a shit? Gift cards don't carry ID data. Unless you want a new type of card that
IS a state-issued ID? Frankly I don't get how this works without being either
ineffective CYA BS or an additional cost to the retailer.

---------------------------------------------
Yeah, 91 million could build a few new bridges, or structurally repair 5-10, so I guess that's 'penny-ante shit' in your mind....Like so many other states, my particular state funnels it's gas tax to some nebulous 'slush fund', where it should be going directly to the maintenance of our roads/bridges...Same goes for lottery winnings ('for the children, aka education), litigation windfall from the tobacco giants (PSA education)... It's all a budgetary scam, but I digress...

As for your argument about grocery chains not caring about enforcement. I didn't mention this, and I actually don't care. I'm sure the supermarkets would be loving the new business. BTW, they don't sell alcohol in this state, so I don't know where you are getting at. Tobacco sales? huh? Where are you going with this?

Again, it seems you think I'm attacking the 'end-user' of the benefits. I'm trying to find out if my state has the brains to realize that giving EBT cash to welfare recipients can be improved upon. If ANYTHING coming out of a supermarket was going to the wrong persons, at least it's better than my tax dollars paying for booze/drugs/casinos/strip clubs.

EBT CASH = INSANITY..

David Losh   Mon, 11 Feb 2013, 7:35am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 81

AverageBear says

EBT CASH = INSANITY..

it's the same as issueing a welfare check except the money can be tracked.

gsr   Mon, 11 Feb 2013, 8:36am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 82

David Losh says

So the system works.

Right now, it works even better for J.P. Morgan.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/01/jp-morgan-s-food-stamp-empire.html

Here is a nice nugget:

With states paying EBT processors so much, one might think that these companies would be expected to tenaciously prevent and investigate fraud and abuse. But according to state officials and a review of a sampling of these contracts, they do not task EBT providers with aggressive fraud prevention. That job is left to states’ EBT fraud investigation units (which police recipients of benefits) and the Agriculture Department (which polices retailers). According to the USDA’s website, the federal food stamp program has “over 100” inspectors to police the nearly 200,000 retailers nationwide that accept EBT cards. For its part, the state of Florida has 63 positions allocated to police over 3 million EBT users. JP Morgan is currently involved in an eight-month pilot project with Florida focused on EBT fraud and abuse. The total staff? Just one JP Morgan employee and five to ten state employees, according to Florida officials. Moreover, critics, such as author James Bovard, say that under President Obama the federal government has tried (unsuccessfully) to thwart states like California, New York, and Texas from implementing commonsense anti-fraud measures, such as requiring those applying for an EBT card to provide finger images.

Vicente   Mon, 11 Feb 2013, 8:43am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 83

AverageBear says

As for your argument about grocery chains not caring about enforcement. I didn't mention this, and I actually don't care. I'm sure the supermarkets would be loving the new business. BTW, they don't sell alcohol in this state, so I don't know where you are getting at. Tobacco sales? huh? Where are you going with this?

Then what's the point? Oh wait you don't actually care about this issue right. I suggest you stick with tried&true "starve the beast". Cut 200 million from the welfare budget and magically all fraud will disappear, because presto-change-o it must. I believe it's already been pointed out why gift cards are prone to abuse and difficult to audit. But none of that matters. Over & out.

AverageBear   Tue, 12 Feb 2013, 7:30pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 84

Vicente says

Then what's the point? Oh wait you don't actually care about this issue
right. I suggest you stick with tried&true "starve the beast". Cut 200
million from the welfare budget and magically all fraud will disappear, because
presto-change-o it must. I believe it's already been pointed out why gift cards
are prone to abuse and difficult to audit. But none of that matters. Over &
out.

-------------------------------------------------
Vic, you are projecting yet again. I'm merely asking my state to look at ways of improving how welfare can be better distributed to the needy. They refuse to acknowledge their piss-poor solution of just waving the 'magic wand' and throwing cash at the problem without thinking. You've stated that i'm concerned with 'enforcement' of those that receive the benefits(not true). The problem is 'upstream', not 'downstream'. i'm asking and suggesting that my state find a better way. I find it funny that we can track how $$ gets spent w/ EBT credit cards, yet in the same breath you tell me we don't have the ability to track how $$ gets spent with a store gift card? What nonsense.... I understand that fraud and giving the supermarket card to someone else is entirely possible. However, it would make me feel better knowing that at least this taxpayer's money is being spent (and limited to a supermarket) on food/diapers/household items (whoever does wind up using it), as apposed to drugs/bail/strip clubs/out of state casinos/etc...

You seem happy w/ the current technology that we use for our EBT/cash solution, but somehow can't imagine a card that can be used only in a supermarket, WHERE IT SHOULD ONLY BE USED. Guess what, vic? It's the same fuckin' technology! We can track who should have the card, when it's depleted, when we can replenish it w/ more funds by the week, which store it gets used at, etc.... Why are you opposed to this solution? You are OK w/ tax $$ going to booze/drugs/casinos? Apparently so, and are too lazy to think there's a better way.

You and others that defend my state's failed EBT solution have repeated the following ... 1) I don't like poor people 2) The cost benefits are 'penny ante shit', and 3) I want to end welfare altogether.

If these are the best arguments to my solution, then that tells me you are desperate at best.

David Losh   Wed, 13 Feb 2013, 12:54am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 85

Here's a gem from comment 89's link: "18 of the 24 states JP Morgan handles have been contracted to pay the bank up to $560,492,596.02 since 2004. Since 2007, Florida has been contracted to pay JP Morgan $90,351,202.22. Pennsylvania’s seven-year contract totaled $112,541,823.27. New York’s seven-year contract totaled $126,394,917."

Your State along with dozens of other constantly come up with high priced solution to combat fraud.

How much is enough? How many more people do you want to hire to scan EBT transactions, let alone do immigration checks, get people into the office four times a year for intake, and issue IDs?

How much is enough? That's the question.

AverageBear   Thu, 14 Feb 2013, 3:11am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 86

The hits just a' keep on comin'...... My state Gov't is run by a bunch of idiots. There's a reason why we are starting to call our governor 'Teflon Deval'.... Deval is hiring all of these mental midgets who can't even run a lemonade stand, and refuses to answer the tough questions (which rarely happens w/ our liberal state press/media)....

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/02/dta_glitch_led_to_ot_free_for_all

------------------------------------------------
Taxpayers doled out a stunning $3.4 million in overtime to state workers to fix a massive, multimillion-dollar glitch in the scandal-plagued welfare department — a revelation critics say adds insult to injury as the state negotiates with the feds over how to pay back $27 million in food-stamp overpayments.

More than 900 employees in the Department of Transitional Assistance — mostly caseworkers — shared in the $3.4 million OT bonanza between November 2010 and May 2011, the department acknowledged after a Herald public records request.

DTA authorized the wages — an average of roughly $3,500 each — so staff could address a backlog of 30,000 clients whose eligibility had to be recertified after the agency overpaid food-stamp clients by $27 million in federal money.

.“When it costs that much money to correct the problem, that’s an affront to the taxpayers of the commonwealth of Massachusetts, frankly,” said state Rep. Jim Dwyer (D-Woburn).

Vicente   Thu, 14 Feb 2013, 3:37am PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 87

AverageBear says

i'm asking and suggesting that my state find a better way. I find it funny that we can track how $$ gets spent w/ EBT credit cards, yet in the same breath you tell me we don't have the ability to track how $$ gets spent with a store gift card?

Please explain how this works.

As currently implemented, they are CASH. I can hand you my card and you can spend it. Someone gives me a gift card to Jamba Juice or someplace else I never go. What do I do with it? I resell it to someone I know or I put it up on PlasticJungle. There is no identity attached to it. No audits are possible without identity being attached to a transaction entry.

So you want to implement some different gift card system that does have identity & audit ability? How will that work, what will it cost, and who pays for it? Will retailers be required to implement a state-mandated solution for it out of their own pockets?

David Losh   Thu, 14 Feb 2013, 1:31pm PST   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 88

AverageBear says

Taxpayers doled out a stunning $3.4 million in overtime

You cherry picked this article for drama.

This is another labor dispute with the Union. Had the State authorized enough workers to adminster this program wthere wouldn't be a need to pay over time to correct the over payments.

The people who suffer are the Food Stamp program receiptients.

So in a time when the State needs more jobs the State refuses to hire because it might swell the Union ranks. Nice.

AverageBear   Tue, 28 May 2013, 6:49am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 89

Massachusetts' Dept of Transitional Assistance (DTA) efforts to improve fraud/waste is "Flowing like peanut butter"......

I'll stop bashing my state gov't (ie, gov. Deval Patrick and the state senate), when I see that they care more about the voting, law-abiding taxpayer, rather than the deadbeat cheaters...

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/05/audit_1164_dead_people_received_welfare_benefits

• Auditors identified 1,164 cases where $2.39 million was paid in benefits from six to 27 months after the recipients had died.

• DTA gave out another $532,000 to people either claiming deceased dependents or to 40 people who were being claimed by more than one guardian.

• During the time the audit focused on, DTA did not verify self-reported Social Security numbers, leading the state to pay out more than $1 million to those using two numbers to collect and individuals whose Social Security numbers were being used by more than one person. It also shelled out benefits for an “extended amount of time” to people with an invalid temporary Social Security number.

• Five regional DTA offices could not provide documentation for more than 30,000 blank EBT cards, raising serious questions in an agency where past internal probes found employees misusing blank EBT cards to access recipients’ benefits inappropriately.

• Despite generating reports to help identify fraud, DTA did not use them, even though they revealed more than $15 million in EBT activity that auditors say “should have been identified by DTA and investigated.”

AverageBear   Tue, 28 May 2013, 6:51am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 90

David Losh says

The people who suffer are the Food Stamp program receiptients.

Suffer? Yah. They suffer all right. They suffer at the nail salon, the liquor store, and "suffer" at the ATM machine before they use the 'state assistance' to fund their night out..... Please wake up...

marcus   Tue, 28 May 2013, 7:01am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 91

The Professor says

Total 2012 entitlement spending: $2,053,000,000,000.00

Us Population: 313,914,040

$6,540 in entitlement spending for every man, woman, and child in the US.

You know this probably includes social security and medicare right (but not the money collected from everyones FICA and medicare payment).

What a total crock.

What about the years when more was being paid in to SS than "spent" on it.

bob2356   Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:06am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike     Comment 92

AverageBear says

My state Gov't is run by a bunch of idiots.

You elected them.

thomaswong.1986   Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:41am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 93

AverageBear says

Massachusetts' Dept of Transitional Assistance (DTA) efforts to improve fraud/waste is "Flowing like peanut butter"......

I'll stop bashing my state gov't (ie, gov. Deval Patrick and the state senate), when I see that they care more about the voting, law-abiding taxpayer, rather than the deadbeat cheaters...

You notice how some here on Pnet are actually defending this waste and abuse ?

thomaswong.1986   Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:49am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 94

AverageBear says

...."Those 19,000 MIA’s collect — based on an average of $400 a month — $91 million a year. That’s the estimate of Rep. Shauna O’Connell (R-Taunton). But the governor Friday went into his best pooh-pooh mode.

Ever wonder you dont see private industry get stung by fraud salary and benefit payments ?

Mass and many other states need to take a lesson on proper cash disbursement from private industries.

Of course adopting corporate practices would not be looked kindly by the left, even though it works far better than govt.

marcus   Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:58am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 95

AverageBear says

Dems say 'Nothing wrong here

Straw man

AverageBear   Tue, 28 May 2013, 12:35pm PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 96

bob2356 says

AverageBear says

My state Gov't is run by a bunch of idiots.

You elected them.

No, my idiot neighbors elected them...

AverageBear   Tue, 28 May 2013, 10:13pm PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 97

David Losh says

You cherry picked this article for drama.

This is another labor dispute with the Union. Had the State authorized enough workers to adminster this program wthere wouldn't be a need to pay over time to correct the over payments.

The people who suffer are the Food Stamp program receiptients.

David, I can't fathom how you can defend the piss-poor status quo on how my state doles out the tax-payer $$ to dead-beats w/ complete ineptitude.

Sooo, these are the people who 'suffer'? You mean those that spent $27 million (!) out of state, including $4.5 million spent in Florida, the Virgin Islands, and Hawaii. You equate 'suffering' with spending tax-payer $$ in Hawaii? Please explain....

--------------------------
Among the audit’s findings:

• Nearly $2.4 million in benefits were paid to people who had been dead for anywhere from six to 27 months.

• $120,000 was paid out to 42 of the departed, benefits that “began after the recipients’ date of death.”

• More than $27 million in benefits were accessed out of state in a six-month period, including $4.5 million in such far-flung states as Florida, the Virgin Islands and Hawaii. Top cities where public money was drawn via EBT cards included Orlando, Myrtle Beach and Las Vegas.

•  Over a six-year period ending in 2012, DTA reissued more than 147,000 replacement cards to 9,846 people, an average of 14 per person. Among those, 358 people were issued 30 or more cards, and one was issued 127.

• In fiscal year 2012 alone, 42 percent of all the 859,000 active cards were reissued.
----------------------------

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_politics/2013/05/dems_grave_errors_show_reform_needed

You think I 'cherry picked' this article during the winter. Well it's gonna be cherry-picking season, because the link above will be on of MANY articles coming out..... If it weren't for the Herald's reporting, this wouldn't have put a fire under the asses of my Democrat-run state senate, and Democrat govenor. You know Deval Patrick, the one who wanted to raise our state taxes by $200 million while turning a blind eye to the DTA's waste/abuse/fraud. He is a lying idiot, who doesn't give a crap about the law-abiding taxpayer. He defends he illegal aliens (and their 'right' to low-cost state college tuition), the deadbeats, and the child-rapists of my state (Go ahead and google "deval patrick ben leguer" when you get a chance; both are real 'stand up' guys, eh?)...

So while the Democrat-run Boston Globe carries the water, the Herald is doing it's job. I wish the 'paper of record' for New England would do the same.......

zzyzzx   Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:25pm PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 98

Vicente says

So you want to implement some different gift card system that does have identity & audit ability?

The welfare card should have the picture of the deadbeat on the card, so that the cashier can verify it.

adarmiento   Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:49pm PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 99

marcus says

You know this probably includes social security and medicare right (but not the money collected from everyones FICA and medicare payment).

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget, the FY2012 budget was

$3.8 trillion total budgeted
$2.9 trillion in total receipts (income tax, social security tax, etc.)
About $1 trillion deficit

Top 3 categories
$940.9 billion for Health and Human Services (Medicare, Medicaid, etc.)
$883.7 billion for Social Security Administration
$673 billion for Department of Defense

marcus   Wed, 29 May 2013, 12:04am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 100

Yes, exactly.

If you don't say how much of that total 2.9 trillion in receipts is from SS and medicare taxes, then screaming about "omg look at how much we spend on entitlements" is little more than propagada to get the hillbillies and the t.wrong types all worked up.

adarmiento says

Top 3 categories

$940.9 billion for Health and Human Services (Medicare, Medicaid, etc.)

$883.7 billion for Social Security Administration

$673 billion for Department of Defense

Your numbers don't give the slightest indication of how much of the deficit comes from "entitlement" spending.

But gaaaaaawleee, that sure is a big number.

And we only just now resumed people paying fica taxes (social security), so the year you chose may be misleading, that is if you were to find and present the relevant information.

adarmiento   Wed, 29 May 2013, 12:58am PDT   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 101

marcus says

If you don't say how much of that total 2.9 trillion in receipts is from SS and medicare taxes

$959 billion in Social Security and other payroll taxes

$1359 in individual income tax

as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_United_States_federal_budget#Total_revenues_and_spending

Even if Social Security and other payroll taxes was to increase by 50%, it would still be at least less than 50% less than the outlays for Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

adarmiento   Wed, 29 May 2013, 1:03am PDT   Share<