Watch....."Let’s not forget how the “scrubbing” began. Granny [LIZ} Warren’s daughter filed a lawsuit claiming the DTA hadn’t been proactive enough in registering the state’s assorted loafers and layabouts to vote for her carpetbagging fake-Indian mom. Then — bingo, the hacks located $274,000 for mailings, complete with post-paid envelopes for the gimme girls and guys to send back their voter registrations.
Have you ever gotten a post-paid envelope from the commonwealth? No, I didn’t think so. They’re not for taxpayers, just for the non-working classes to take part in a Democratic voter-registration drive."......
The Patrick administration has known about these appalling EBT numbers for months now. They were only released after this newspaper filed a Freedom of Information Act request. Which is the same way it was revealed that Lt. Gov. Tim Murray was doing 108 mph when he mysteriously crashed his state vehicle in November 2011."....
Guess what this revealed? Most likely, these fake welfare frauds are collecting from other states. Liberals here in Mass REFUSE to acknowledge welfare fraud, REFUSE to allow reform to uncover waste. This is what you get when democrats overwhelmingly run a 'one party state'...
...."Those 19,000 MIA’s collect — based on an average of $400 a month — $91 million a year. That’s the estimate of Rep. Shauna O’Connell (R-Taunton). But the governor Friday went into his best pooh-pooh mode.
“That may not be indicative of a problem,” he said with a straight face. “We’ll know when we do the scrubbing.”.......
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Let's cut welfare so crime can go up and we can arrest more people and build more prisons so we can provide welfare to prisoners.
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Moderate Infidel says
Welfare to prison guards!
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David Losh's website
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Most people don't spend time with people on Welfare so they don't know that the lifestyle these people have is brutal, and desperate.
You are dealing with the mentally ill who have no resources. They are banned from one living situation to the next. They can never quite get anything together.
Welfare is very hard for these people to get, and keep, so you are safe on that point. You have thousands of government workers insuring that the beauracracy is so convoluted, so difficult to understand, and very hard to keep all of the paper work straight, that thousands of people would rather do without the benefits.
However Welfare is a direct infusion of cash into the economy. The poor spend all of that money in your local stores. They very rarely go to box stores because they can't afford to.
We all make money from Welfare, and that is a good thing.
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Dublin, CA
David Losh says
That is simply an explanation that poor people have trouble saving money because they don't have the funds to save. However, it is not a positive thing that they "spend all of that money." Our society would be much better off if everyone could save 6 months worth of living expenses in savings as any good financial advisor would recommend. Living check to check out of necessity plain sucks.
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Dublin, CA
Ideally all theft would be dealt with harshly and severely whether its contractor in afghanistan, white collar criminals, welfare recepients, thiefs in department stores, etc. To say that one theft is better than another is to justify evil selectively.
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Yup, every dollar spent on welfare comes back to the economy somehow.
Can't say the same for those missing billions in Iraqi Bribe Money. Probably much of it was spent building a Gun Range in South Africa, or buying an Apartment in Zurich.
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thunderlips11 says
The money spent on afghanistan and irag wars have been a financial knockout against united states, like what marquez did to paquiao. You would think that our government could have anticipated this considering that that's what american did to the soviets back in 1980's - get them caught up to afghanistan so that they would go broke, collapse and implode.
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dublin hillz says
Well, that is desperation.
You can follow this back to the Reagan era cuts to social programs that unharnessed thousands of mentally ill, and turned them loose on the street. Great savings of short term cash, and we have paid for it ever since.
These people have nothing. It makes no difference if it's drugs, or alcohol, or mental illness, these people are unable to do more than survive.
If you want to make the argument we need better schools, or education, great, but the Welfare to Work program was a disaster. You can not take people with a life time of abuse, or mental illness, or drug addiction, or alcohol addiction and throw them into a work place.
The system we have works well with more checks, and balances you could ever want.
Hey, what's the per cent of people denied benefits, let alone trying to keep them?
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thunderlips11 says
True, the wars in Iraq, and Afganistan have been money losses, and no one seems concerned about that.
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Kevin says
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Projecting will get you no where, mon frere.... I'm simply asking why my State gov't refuses to look into cleaning up obvious waste. You reply w/ name-calling. nice. Stay classy, Kevin.
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thunderlips11 says
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Well, actually no. I've had discussions w/ folks where Mass EBT were found being used on cruise ships on the carribean and in foreign countries. This doesn't include the documented cases of EBT cards (really cash, as this is what it's being turned into) being used for: bail, booze, strip clubs, nail salons, drugs.... Funny how you casually dismiss this fraudulent behavior by my state gov't, by saying the the $$ winds up back in the economy. Ain't that a fuckin' nugget of wisdom! Typical liberal mentality. Having no problem spending other people's money in the most retarted fashion. Well, I'm a little pissed that it's being used in the most inappropriate ways.
Oh, and what does Iraq have to due with this thread? Stay on track skippy, we're talking Mass gov't pissing away tax dollars.
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David Losh says
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So why would you have a problem w/ my state in trying to confirm "these people" are trully who you believe they are. From your perspective, we shouldn't "trust, but confirm". That's all I'm asking, and I get called a 'heartless dick'.....Sounds like someone doesn't want to face, nor confirm reality.
The Mass state senate and our dim governor Deval Patrick, don't want to even acknowledge EBT abuse, let alone confront and solve it. Why are democrats not willing to try? This is the 'low lying fruit' in accounting. I'm not being cruel, as you project me to be. I'm trying to remove the scammers, which has been proven that do exist. Why do liberals dismiss the bad elements in human behavior when it comes to welfare? Why are they afraid of trying to root out waste?
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AverageBear says
Where to begin, let's start with you calling for a witch hunt in welfare fraud. How much is that going to cost? By all means add a few more burieaurats to the number of bureaucrats you already have tracking these illegal purchases.
How do you know where the money is spent? Some one in the government told you? Well then they have the job of stopping that abuse.
Your premise is that the mentally ill, the alcoholics, the drug addicts need to keep current addresses on file or be booted off welfare. Great, do that, keep America safe by making a whole class of desperate people more desperate.
You'll spend the money on law enforcement instead.
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AverageBear says
You will find neither liberals, or conservatives want to spend a lot of time with welfare.
Number one reason is the Farm Bill which includes Food Stamps, which helps farm prices.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/10/01/congress-just-let-the-farm-bill-expire-its-not-the-end-of-the-world-yet/
Second is the Welfare to Work Program which was a Clinton era program that has been a disaster, except in the minds of a Mitt Romney like person.
http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/clintons-welfare-work-program-careens-toward-failure
What Mitt has tried to project is that Welfare will go back to just being a Welfare check, but he got that wrong.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/07/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/
So, let me add this up for you. Welfare, as you claim, isn't a free ride, it's a bureaucratic maze of approval. Second is that we spend a lot of money adminstrating these programs already. Last, but not least is that this money is in circulation which aids the over all economy.
It's like Helicopter Ben dropping money on the poor, rather than banks.
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AverageBear says
Maybe if they did, they would lose their voting block of people..
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AverageBear says
Enough with the straw man. I don't think anyone is arguing that it's OK for welfare to be used on strippers and cruise ships. Certainly, fix those abuses if it's practical and economical to do so. If it's not practical to fix, and such abuses represent an acceptably low portion of the whole, suck it up and get on with things. Shit happens, abuse happens, no system is 100% efficient.
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Call it Crazy says
Poor people don't vote. Less than I in 10 in poverty show up, vs 8 in 10 among white collar professionals.
Liberals win elections from women, minorities, and the well educated. Poor people are barely relevant in elections, unless they're old, white, and religious.
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Durham, NC
AverageBear says
Why do conservatives want to get rid of social programs the minute someone abuses them? Why are they afraid of trying to fix them instead of eliminating them? Generalities are fun.
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pdh says
Because God hates poor, weak people.
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AverageBear says
zero tolerance is generally counterproductive if not asinine.
Witchhunts on minorities is just for political points, meanwhile:
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/FDEFX
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Because angrybear it's penny ante bullshit.
Reminds me of the various efforts to enact drug testing for welfare recipients. Which end up spending more on the drug testing than it "saves" as they find out welfare recipients statistically are less drug addicted than general population.
And is the goal to fix the accounting, or justify cutting the welfare budget?
If you want to cut waste do you go after the big budget items, or do you shave pennies off your lunch budget?
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Its all code language. They believe poor people are poor because they're inferior (especially if they are a different race). They'd be more than happy yo kill or imprison everybody who is poor.
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Vicente says
-----------------------------------------
Penny-ante bullshit indeed!
You're right Vic, what's $28 Billion anyway. If you think $28B is 'penny ante' bullshit, I'd be happy to take your first $28Billion off your hands.
What the fuck is wrong w/ demanding that our gov't actually give a shit, when it comes to pissing away the taxes that it takes away from us here in Massachusetts?
That useless fuck of a govenor here in Mass, has proposed a state budget that is 25% larger than in 2009. he's telling me he's going to raise the gas tax, and a host of other taxes. Excuuuse me, but I'd like a little credibility in my state gov't, where it actually WANTS to look out for the people it supposedly works for. Where it actually may want to do it's god-damn job actually watch where the tax dollars go. I'm all for helping out the needy, but when Deval's minions doesn't know were the fuck the $$ is going, they finally get fired, just like this clown in the link below. Do you want more links and proof that this one-party state should look for more waste? I'm sure it's out there. But then again, this would interfere w/ the constant campaign for votes.... PFFT! Oh, an BTW, calling me a heartless prick doesn't win you the argument. It confirms your delusion.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/01/welfare_boss_resigns_wake_report
....."The state’s embattled welfare chief was forced to step down yesterday in the wake of a shocking internal report that found that a staggering 47,000 families receiving taxpayer-funded benefits are unaccounted for — and nearly $30 million in food stamp money went to recipients who were not eligible.
The shocking report, released to the Herald last night, found that the Department of Transitional Assistance has lost track of 47,087 households on welfare — or one out of 10 of the total 478,000 who received DTA mailings.
The welfare department also admitted that it overpaid federal food stamp recipients by a whopping $27.8 million since 2010......"
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David Losh says
I grew up on welfare. I did not even know we were poor.
I don't recall the brutality or desperation. I do remember the free lunch at school and all the programs brought into our project to "help" the poor. In reality many of these programs enriched the people who ran them more than it helped the poor who were targeted.
I distinctly remember a neighborhood cleanup project when I was 8 years old. We were going to spend all morning picking up trash and then get a "free" lunch. After the morning work was done each of us was sent home with one raw hot dog.
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Instead of giving money to people who can't handle money why don't we create soup kitchens to feed, dormitories to house, and clinics to treat the poor?
There is little incentive to better yourself when you can net more from welfare than working.
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Welfare is keeping the workers from the farms: hence the need for "agricultural worker programs" where we import Mexicans to do the jobs that Americans will not do. If you're living in some city and can't feed yourself, there should be an office where you can sign up to get transportation to a farm where they will work and feed you and your kids.
C'mon! The plantation needs its workers back!
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The Professor says
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I agree. Those that need help (food, shelter, clothing. retraining) should get all of those things. They should NOT BE GETTING A FRICKEN' EBT CREDIT CARD (AKA 'CASH') to spend tax payers $$ as they see fit (nail salons, booze, hookers, strip joints, bail)....
Apparently, most very liberal folk can't accept the fact that these people that need help, shouldn't be entitled to CASH. They should be entitled to food/shelter/clothing/training that they should some how 'show up' and confirm their identity, and intentions. It's been proven that the democrat-run state of Mass has NO INTENTION whatsoever of confirming who is getting EBT $$, where it's going, and doesn't care how it's being spent...
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Bellingham Bill says
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When did i ever mention 'zero tolerance'?? What's asinine is giving people on welfare CASH to do whatever they want with it. What they should be given is food/clothing/shelter/retraining. Make them show up for it, confirm their identity for it. Give them enough to get back on their feet, but not too much to enjoy or sustain a free/easy lifestyle. (Obama's Antie Zetiuni comes to mind)....An EBT card isn't needed for these things.
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AverageBear says
Fine. I think YOU shouldn't be entitled to CASH either. Let's have someone else determine what you NEED. You think you need money for soy-based infant formula? No, what you need is Cheerios and milk. I don't care that your whole family is lactose-intolerant, that's what you're getting!
Plain and simple cash is a lot simpler to distribute, than managing inventories of surplus cheese and butter or whatever. Get over it, this argument was settled a long time ago and even staunchly Republican administrations realized it was more EFFICIENT.
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pdh says
---------------------------------------------------------------
PDH, why do you pull shit out of thin air, and accuse me of things i never said. When did I ever say that I or conservatives ever wanted to get rid of social programs? I'm talking about my democrat-run state refusing to acknowledge and fix welfare fraud and waste. You counter w/ generalities. Nice try.
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Vicente says
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HAHAHAAA!!!! "Efficient" being used to describe a gov't social program. HAHAHAAA!! That's fuckin' priceless. ooh boy, you made my day.
Yeah, let's continue to 'efficiently' give our tax dollars to fuckin' idiots (oh, my bad, the 'victims' of society that don't know better') blow $200 at a liquor store on Petrone, or take that EBT card, get cash for the next 8-ball... Efficiency indeed! Yes, this argument is settled. Everything is perfectly fine. No need to CHANGE A FUCKIN' THING. NOTHING TO LOOK AT. NOTHING TO SEE HERE SUCKERS, er, TAXPAYERS.
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The Professor says
So the system works.
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AverageBear says
We have changed the system for you frigging whiners to the tune of that there $28 Billiion.
Going back to Reagan, who turned the mentally ill out on the street to save a few bucks, and Clinton, with his Welfare to Work government employment program, we have done nothing to make the system better, just more costly.
Hookers, and liquor? No, the vast majority of these people are barely surviving.
The reason we have waste is because the system is so complicated that, yes, really bad people can play it.
The Professor says
Yeah, let's set up a series of government agencies to do all of those things, shelter, food, and medical.
The problem there is the cost. It would also take away profits from land lords, McDonalds, and God forbid, the Medical Industry.
Welfare works, and could stand to cut the budget on oversight so that more money can reach the poor.
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David Losh says
Dormitories, kitchens, and clincs paid for by eliminating section 8, food stamps, and medical insurance.
Remember this is in my socialist utopia
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David Losh says
Make the capitalist pigs squeeel!
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David Losh says
One of the requirements for welfare is that you can't work. If we gave poor people food, a place to sleep, medical care, training, and counseling, maybe they could work their way out of poverty.
You can give the poor money to feed, house, and care for them, Or you can teach the poor how to make money, and they can take care of themselves. And the ones that can't take care of themselves will employ others in their care.
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Buffalo, NY
pdh says
Most conservatives hold to an ideology that believes that social programs are bad, without exception. They do not care if they are efficient, if they help the people they are meant to help, if other human beings will suffer or even die without them, etc. What matters is that their ideology must be upheld at all costs. Too much reliance on any ideology is inherently irrational, and unfortunately idealogues cling tighter and tighter to their ideology whenever it's challenged in serious debate.
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AverageBear says
Bull-fucking-shit. I am the most liberal person on Patrick.net. I am all for uncovering and prosecuting welfare fraud. Although I do suspect that banking fraud costs us taxpayers about a thousand times as much. The Federal Reserve lent big banks $16 trillion at 0% so those banks could lend money to our government and collect interest off of it. That's a $16 trillion fraud right there. Welfare fraud is small potatoes compared to that.
However, I am still for prosecuting welfare fraud. And I have never said anything remotely close to suggesting that such fraud does not happen. So much for your theory that liberals approve of welfare fraud or tacitly accept it. Perhaps you are confusing liberal with leftist or socialist. Totally different things.
Liberals believe in liberty, hence the term "liberal". We believe that people should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want to as long as they are not infringing upon the rights of others. We don't believe in victimless crimes because by definition, if there is no victim, there is no crime. That's what separates liberals from their opposites, fascists.
If you need further clarification, I can go on.
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The Professor says
Those days are long past with the Welfare to Work program, insisted on by Republicans, and signed by Bill Clinton. It adds cost to Welfare.
It's another cog in the wheel to appease whiners who insist welfare is riddled with fraud.
The truth is Welfare is a good system. What you are saying is that the people on Welfare are so stupid they would rather spend the money they get on hookers, and booze, than food, and their children.
You want repsonsibility? Give people money to do what they want. You want a nanny state, set up one agency, and another, and another, and a watch dog group to be sure that money is spent they way you say it should.
What AverageBear wants is more government to do his, or her bidding.
Poverty has gotten to be a much bigger issue than when we were kids. Look at the Census. We need more money pumped into poverty, and less into government agencies that over see it.
You want to get rid of waste? Let's talk about oil, transportation, sugar, chocolate, farming, autos, housing, and the all powerful medical industry.
Oops, that would be for everybody.
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i repeat post Average bear delete; they don’t call afganistan the graveyard of empires for nothing! though i can’t understand why ABear would delete such a comment!
dublin hillz says