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Now how I can tell this is bullshit?


By Mr Happygoluckofus   Follow   Tue, 8 Jan 2013, 11:37pm PST   3,839 views   72 comments   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (5)  

Hint the word "Study" was used in every paragraph. Study has become one of those marginalized words, that Libs like to throw around to give their injection indisputable scientific credence.

A new study found that those who drink a fair amount of sweetened sodas and fruit drinks – whether diet or regular – have an increased risk of depression. Java-drinkers, on the other hand, have a slightly lower risk of the blues.

The study was presented at the American Academy of Neurology's annual meeting in San Diego this week.

Previous studies have found that drinking sweetened beverages was associated with a higher prevalence of depression, suicidal thoughts and other mental distress. But this study was the first prospective study, meaning it followed people over a number of years.

From 1995 to 1996, consumption of drinks such as soda, tea, fruit punch and coffee was evaluated in 263,925 adults. About 10 years later, researchers asked the participants whether they had been diagnosed with depression since the year 2000. A total of 11,311 people said yes.

The researchers acknowledge the study does not prove a cause and effect. In other words, it could be that people who are depressed tend to drink more soda.

Though if you take the time to peruse on how many people in the US are depressed you'll get conflicting results depending on the "Study".

http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+percentage+of+the+population+that+are+depressed

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mell   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 4:12am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 33

CaptainShuddup says

But still how ever, anti depressants are wayyyyy over prescribed, they tried to give that shit to my wife and it made her suicidal and defeated, she just wanted to die. WHY? She wasn't depressed to begin with, she had chronic roving intense muscle pains all over her body, the Doctors couldn't make an acurate diagnosis, so they gave her Ambian and then Cembaltra. In fact Cembaltra is now a common Arthritis remedy prescribed by Doctors. I would follow the statistics of Arthritic suicide rates in this country over the next 5 years.

Most chronic conditions are so tough to figure out and treat that they take the easy way by numbing the patient down with SSRIs. Sometimes they also, prescribe immuno-suppressors, be on the lookout, similar issues as with SSRIs (side-effects). There is a lot of exciting new research going on in the realm of chronic conditions such as arthritis focusing more on pathogens/toxins and assuming the body has a reason to respond like it does instead of just shutting its defenses down with a sledge-hammer. Also there are natural inhibitors of chronic inflammation that are equally potent and have far less side effects such as (concentrated) Turmeric of which you can take a high daily dose without issues. Might not be a total cure, but worth a try. Good luck!

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 4:42am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 34

I finally cured her with Flexeril and Tylenol(the two lesser drugs one could take) two chiropractor visits and 3 deep tissue massages. all out of pocket of course. The doctors kept her in writhing pain for 4 months.
She's been pain free or has manageable shoulder twinges now for three weeks.

I think she over did it on the antioxidants and was overly stressed over her false cancer scare. We thought she would be a goner for about two months. Which that's another rant altogether.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 5:11am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 35

Homeboy says

First of all, the warnings on medications are things that could POSSIBLY happen. They are things that have happened in a very tiny number of people in test cases. If bad side effects were occurring in a majority of users of the drug, it would never get approved, or it would be pulled off the market.

If you read the manufacturers' own studies, adverse side effect rates approach 50% vs placebo, while benefit is (at best and according to the manufacturers) around 10%. FDA ordered GSK to stop selling paroxetine to children, because there was no benefit. FDA further required a black box warning, their strongest warning category, regarding the risks of suicidal ideation and possible suicidality. Huge numbers of people have reported adverse effects, but there's also a huge amount of $$$ being made, so they stay on the market. As for the few who claim benefits, it's the placebo effect not the drug; eventually people get better, but they credit whatever drug they happen to be taking at that time. And, contrary to advertisers' and even doctors' assurances, the SSRIs with shorter serum half-lives (e.g. paroxetine) are known to cause physical dependence, more strongly than cocaine. So it's easy to see why Homeboy defends them. Addicts always defend their pushers and rationalize continuing their addiction.

The worst trick is Obamacare, shifting the financial cost of that addiction onto everyone else via mandatory subsidized insurance. And, now that government can make you buy products and submit to involuntary contracts with corporations that bribe the legislators, big PhRMA can gets its hooks into even more people. You don't benefit, but they make $$$ at your expense.

Homeboy calls that a "conspiracy" theory, but the deals were widely reported in plain sight.

Ironman   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 5:11am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (3)     Comment 36

CaptainShuddup says

I finally cured her with Flexeril and Tylenol(the two lesser drugs one could take) two chiropractor visits and 3 deep tissue massages. all out of pocket of course. The doctors kept her in writhing pain for 4 months.

Saw you mentioned Cymbalta, you have to be careful with that stuff. Dual use, good for arthritis but can have some interesting side affects with the SSRI side.

Since you mentioned your wife had the deep tissue massages... I have arthritis and have taken a bunch of different crap to try and reduce the pain and inflammation. I've dealt with it for decades.

The best thing I found, deep tissue massages. This has made a 180 degree turn around and has worked wonders that drugs would never had fixed. Plus, it treats the source, instead of just covering it up like drugs do. Absolutely amazing results with the deep tissue work.

You might want to send your wife for some more deep tissue work. Be advised, it's not a one or two treatment fix. I found out it takes months to really get the pain under control. If she's found a good therapist who's good with her hands, it might make a world of difference for her.

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 5:19am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (3)     Comment 37

She's already getting much better.
What REALLY had her fucked up was the Doctor telling her that she had fibromyalgia then she Googled it, and saw that most that had it, claimed there was no cure, and that she could expect to hurt like that forever.
It seems to me, it's one of those things that if you resign to hurting the rest of your life, while taking the standard prescribed treatment, then that's what you'll get.

I call it the "You're crazy lady" decease or the "it's nothing wrong with you that a good romp in the sack wont cure" but the Doctor can't tell them that. SO they make up absurd names for it.
Like "Restless Leg Syndrome", "Firbromyalgia" and "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome"

And create a revolving door of prescriptions and specialist referrals.

Ironman   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 5:26am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (3)     Comment 38

CaptainShuddup says

It seems to me, it's one of those things that if you resign to hurting the rest of your life, while taking the standard prescribed treatment, then that's what you'll get.

That's what I thought my future was, just hurting forever sucking down pain medication till I die.

Not anymore, I feel the best I ever have and don't take all that drug crap...

CaptainShuddup says

And create a revolving door of prescriptions and specialist referrals.

I'm done with that too!!

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 11:11am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 39

mell says

Most chronic conditions are so tough to figure out and treat that they take the easy way by numbing the patient down with SSRIs. Sometimes they also, prescribe immuno-suppressors, be on the lookout, similar issues as with SSRIs (side-effects). There is a lot of exciting new research going on in the realm of chronic conditions such as arthritis focusing more on pathogens/toxins and assuming the body has a reason to respond like it does instead of just shutting its defenses down with a sledge-hammer. Also there are natural inhibitors of chronic inflammation that are equally potent and have far less side effects such as (concentrated) Turmeric of which you can take a high daily dose without issues. Might not be a total cure, but worth a try. Good luck!

Are you a physician?

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 11:20am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 40

mell says

Homeboy says

You are the one claiming that antidepressants are the sole cause of an increase in suicide rate between 1950 and now, that antidepressants take more lives than they save, and that suicide is tantamount to homicide. Therefore, the onus is on you to provide the evidence to support your claim.

No I didn't, I came in somewhere in between your opinion and what you perceived my opinion is.

It's right up there for everyone to read, you can't waffle on it now.

You wrote: "Why don't you educate yourself and pull up the suicide rates in the US between 1950 and 2005 (or any other period) and you can't see any trend at all. I think the best claim anybody can make is that they saved as many as they have taken, which does not bode well as an argument to take any drug"

You cited an increase in suicide rates as supposed evidence that antidepressants cause suicides.

And before that, you wrote: "the word 'suicidal' (which can go hand in hand with homicidal"

So yeah, you did say that stuff.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 11:41am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 41

CaptainShuddup says

That's not to say, that I don't think that there are those that are clinically depressed and anti depressants help them tremendously. Though for most of those people it often takes years of going from one to the next before they find one that in spite the short comings of the pill, makes their life easier to live.

Well, Captain, I wish there was a magic pill that instantly cures depression, but that just doesn't exist. What we have are some meds that help people manage the symptoms, and that's far more than we had 100 years ago, when we just put people into mental institutions and let them suffer. If you want to imagine that they're killing more people than they're saving, and that this is some kind of conspiracy to kill people, go ahead. You don't have any proof of that. This stuff doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for a lot of people, and saved untold numbers of lives and saved an untold amount of suffering.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 11:49am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 42

Homeboy says

What we have are some meds that help people manage the symptoms, and that's far more than we had 100 years ago, when we just put people into mental institutions and let them suffer.

You haven't listed your other symptoms or mental illnesses, but 100 years ago most people got more exercise, and very few complained of depression. It was at that time called melancholy, and was limited to the few people who could live sedentary lives and who failed to get enough exercise. The best treatment was, and still is, "an afternoon constitutional," i.e. a vigorous daily walk. Today, more than 10% of Americans are on SSRIs. There was never a time when 10% of Americans were in mental institutions.

I couldn't understand before why you became so explosive in attacking me for criticizing Obamacare; you refused to read, and instead you called me all sorts of names. Now I see, you want Obamacare so you can be sure nothing will interrupt your supply of toxic, costly, habit-forming pills, so you won't have to go through withdrawal. Being an addict, you lash out when people try to tell you the truth.

Homeboy says

This stuff doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for a lot of people, and saved untold numbers of lives and saved an untold amount of suffering.

SSRIs don't work for anyone. People try several different pills until they get better, and along the way they get better on their own. None of the pills worked, but the pushers are paid to tell you they do, and to keep pushing them. It isn't exactly a "conspiracy to kill people," it is instead "a big [something] deal" to make a lot of money.

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 10:20pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 43

Homeboy says

Well, Captain, I wish there was a magic pill that instantly cures depression, but that just doesn't exist. What we have are some meds that help people manage the symptoms, and that's far more than we had 100 years ago, when we just put people into mental institutions and let them suffer. If you want to imagine that they're killing more people than they're saving, and that this is some kind of conspiracy to kill people, go ahead. You don't have any proof of that. This stuff doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for a lot of people, and saved untold numbers of lives and saved an untold amount of suffering.

I don't doubt that, but I bet the numbers are like 50/50 for ever person it helps it makes matters ten times worse for someone else.

Doctors and Pharms should be held accountable for those it doesn't help.
Because as it is, we seem to look at like, well in the trials it helped 10 people, so if it gives you anal warts, high blood pressure, suicidal thoughts, bladder infection, and heart decease, then it's your defect not the pill. And THAT wraps up the whole mentality of the Big Pharm and Doctors that prescribe their poison with impunity. That is why the list of what a drug helps is only three word comment, but the possible side effects are 20 paragraphs. And if you experience any, then it's your defect not the medicine.

What in the hell is wrong with you defending this Shit?

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 3:36am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (3)     Comment 44

CaptainShuddup says

I don't doubt that, but I bet the numbers are like 50/50 for ever person it helps it makes matters ten times worse for someone else.

That is a completely made-up statistic. It's nowhere close to 50-50, and you don't have the slightest bit of evidence suggesting that it is. And it's simply absurd. If studies had shown that 1 of every 2 people had symptoms "10 times worse" than they did before taking the drug, it would NEVER have been approved. You know perfectly well you're spreading a bald-faced lie.

Do doctors mis-diagnose sometimes? Sure they do. I was diagnosed with asthma because of a lingering cough where they couldn't figure out the cause. I was given an inhaler. It did nothing for me; maybe made me cough a bit more if anything. Now, did I flip out and start ranting about asthma inhalers being poison and that nobody should ever be allowed to use an asthma inhaler? No, because I'm not an idiot.

You admit that SSRIs help people, yet you are siding with the people who say nobody should ever be allowed to take them. So I'll use the same example again: Penicillin "makes things worse" for some people. Should we stop allowing ANYONE to use it?

curious2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 3:42am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 45

Homeboy, compare the safety and efficacy studies of penicillin vs SSRIs. If you actually read the numbers, you will find that SSRIs have near zero efficacy compared to placebo: for every 10 people who "got better" on the drug, 9 got better on the placebo. And for every 10 people who took the drug, 5 experienced adverse side effects. These numbers are from the manufacturers' paid studies, the SSRIs are 4x more likely to harm you than to help you. Independent studies find the numbers are even worse. I would post links, but when I did that for you in the past you refused to read and instead you insulted me, which is behavior typical of an addict.

mell   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 3:50am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 46

Homeboy says

mell says

Most chronic conditions are so tough to figure out and treat that they take the easy way by numbing the patient down with SSRIs. Sometimes they also, prescribe immuno-suppressors, be on the lookout, similar issues as with SSRIs (side-effects). There is a lot of exciting new research going on in the realm of chronic conditions such as arthritis focusing more on pathogens/toxins and assuming the body has a reason to respond like it does instead of just shutting its defenses down with a sledge-hammer. Also there are natural inhibitors of chronic inflammation that are equally potent and have far less side effects such as (concentrated) Turmeric of which you can take a high daily dose without issues. Might not be a total cure, but worth a try. Good luck!

Are you a physician?

No, but I studied a fair amount of medicine as part of my degree and - more important - continued to keep up with latest research which takes quite a bit of time. And that is the problem with todays physicians, their knowledge is around 20 years old and there is no requirement whatsoever for them to freshen up. It is sad but these days researches (microbiologists, chemists, electro-physiologists etc.) know more about relevant latest data than your standard MD/GP. There are highly trained specialists which are really good and also highly skilled surgeons, but chances are you never meet them unless you would die otherwise and you are lucky enough to get properly diagnosed by your GP. For all the chronic stuff that eventually may lead to a severe enough condition where you will be seen/treated by one of the specialists you are left on your own, often ridiculed and quickly dismissed with anti-depressants in your pocket during the 15 minute (!) consultations.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 3:51am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 47

https://www.medify.com/insights/article/7775364/a-double-blind-multicenter-trial-comparing-sertraline-and-fluoxetine-in-outpatients-with-major-depression

“ CONCLUSION: Sertraline and fluoxetine were equally effective and well tolerated in patients with major depression and associated anxiety. ”

https://www.medify.com/insights/article/15600379/long-term-management-of-major-depressive-disorder-are-differences-among-antidepressant-treatments-meaningful

“ Thus, there is increasing evidence that venlafaxine and SSRIs are effective and well tolerated in long-term therapy. ”

https://www.medify.com/insights/article/19953347/sertraline-treatment-is-associated-with-an-improvement-in-depression-and-health-related-quality-of-life-in-chronic-peritoneal-dialysis-patients

“ Sertraline treatment improved BDI score of patients with depression”

https://www.medify.com/insights/article/9201668/fluoxetine-vs-tricyclic-antidepressants-in-women-with-major-depressive-disorder

“ This study demonstrates that fluoxetine is an effective and tolerable agent for the treatment of major depressive disorder in women. ”

https://www.medify.com/insights/article/11138997/efficacy-and-safety-of-fluoxetine-in-the-treatment-of-patients-with-major-depression-after-first-myocardial-infarction-findings-from-a-double-blind-placebo-controlled-trial

“ In addition, fluoxetine seemed to be particularly effective in patients with mild depression and was associated with a statistically significant reduction in hostility. ”

https://www.medify.com/insights/article/14687320/efficacy-safety-and-tolerability-of-sertraline-in-patients-with-late-life-depression-and-comorbid-medical-illness

“ CONCLUSION: Sertraline was efficacious in reducing depressive symptomatology, regardless of the presence of comorbid medical illness. ”

https://www.medify.com/insights/article/11436952/sertraline-effects-in-adolescent-major-depression-and-dysthymia-a-six-month-open-trial

Generally, sertraline was safe and well tolerated. Most adverse events were mild to moderate in severity and resolved with no action taken.

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 3:55am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 48

Homeboy says

If studies had shown that 1 of every 2 people had symptoms "10 times worse" than they did before taking the drug, it would NEVER have been approved. You know perfectly well you're spreading a bald-faced lie.

http://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=971x6162x16694070

Here's a good 10 hour read.

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 3:57am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 49

curious2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 4:00am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 50

Homeboy, look at the actual numbers. When they say "effective," they are referring to 10% of test subjects compared to placebo. If you go with their advertising conclusions, while ignoring the actual numbers, you're kidding yourself with advertising not science.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 4:00am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 51

mell says

No, but I studied a fair amount of medicine as part of my degree and - more important - continued to keep up with latest research which takes quite a bit of time. And that is the problem with todays physicians, their knowledge is around 20 years old and there is no requirement whatsoever for them to freshen up. It is sad but these days researches (microbiologists, chemists, electro-physiologists etc.) know more about relevant latest data than your standard MD/GP. There are highly trained specialists which are really good and also highly skilled surgeons, but chances are you never meet them unless you would die otherwise and you are lucky enough to get properly diagnosed by your GP. For all the chronic stuff that eventually may lead to a severe enough condition where you will be seen/treated by one of the specialists you are left on your own, often ridiculed and quickly dismissed with anti-depressants in your pocket during the 15 minute (!) consultations.

Here's the problem - too many armchair physicians. You read a couple of fringe websites and you imagine yourself to know more than doctors who went to med school and had the extensive training that doctors get in this country. I call bullshit. You've already shown that you have some pretty ridiculous non-scientific ideas. Anyone who thinks that a rise in suicide rate between 1950 and now is proof that SSRIs kill as many people than they save, is just not thinking rationally. You don't seem to even grasp the difference between correlation and causation, yet you believe you know more than all the experts in the medical field. I just don't buy it. Sorry.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 4:03am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 52

mell says

todays physicians, their knowledge is around 20 years old and there is no requirement whatsoever for them to freshen up.

Many are required to endure "Continuing Medical Education," basically PhRMA infomercials, which tend to be worse than useless. PhRMA is forever touting the "new & improved" (patented) drugs, until the patent expires, then you see new studies showing how the "new new super-improved" pill is much better and the old one was lousy. It gives rise to the practitioners' adage, "Always prescribe a new drug in its first two years on the market, while it still works."

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 4:03am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 53

CaptainShuddup says

Homeboy says

If studies had shown that 1 of every 2 people had symptoms "10 times worse" than they did before taking the drug, it would NEVER have been approved. You know perfectly well you're spreading a bald-faced lie.

http://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=971x6162x16694070

Here's a good 10 hour read.

And again, the same problem - too many armchair physicians. You don't even seem to understand the difference between a double-blind study and an internet message board. Plus, we weren't even TALKING about Ambien!

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 4:06am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 54

Well at least nobody has ever swallowed a muzzle flash from Pot.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 4:07am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 55

Homeboy says

You don't even seem to understand the difference between a double-blind study and an internet message board.

We do understand that difference.

You don't seem to understand the difference between manufacturers' paid verbiage and actual data. Read the actual numbers, which show only 10% efficacy compared to placebo, with a side effect rate near 50%. If you ignore the numbers and read only the sponsors' paid spin, you're deluding yourself by reading only what you want to hear.

And, regarding Internet message boards, they were the first to report that SSRIs cause physical dependence. Manufacturers had denied that specifically, including in DTC advertising on TV and "education" delivered to physicians. The dependence you're experiencing, which your physician was told to tell you would never happen, is now very widely reported and well documented. Read about SSRI withdrawal syndrome.

Lastly, always check the duration of "studies". Most last only a few months. The study length can be adjusted to report favorable results, like tossing a coin many times until you get a count that makes it look like more heads than tails. If they end early, they issue a press release along the lines of, "the results were so encouraging we had to tell everyone immediately." If the results say the drug is useless, they extend the study or throw $ to a poor doctor in a "rescue country" to re-do it. And after-effects, like SSRI withdrawal syndrome or Vioxx strokes, are excluded because the study "ends" when people stop taking the pills, so the after-effects don't show up at all.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Tue, 29 Jan 2013, 9:43am PST