Now how I can tell this is bullshit?


By CaptainShuddup   Follow   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 7:37am   3,284 views   72 comments
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Hint the word "Study" was used in every paragraph. Study has become one of those marginalized words, that Libs like to throw around to give their injection indisputable scientific credence.

A new study found that those who drink a fair amount of sweetened sodas and fruit drinks – whether diet or regular – have an increased risk of depression. Java-drinkers, on the other hand, have a slightly lower risk of the blues.

The study was presented at the American Academy of Neurology's annual meeting in San Diego this week.

Previous studies have found that drinking sweetened beverages was associated with a higher prevalence of depression, suicidal thoughts and other mental distress. But this study was the first prospective study, meaning it followed people over a number of years.

From 1995 to 1996, consumption of drinks such as soda, tea, fruit punch and coffee was evaluated in 263,925 adults. About 10 years later, researchers asked the participants whether they had been diagnosed with depression since the year 2000. A total of 11,311 people said yes.

The researchers acknowledge the study does not prove a cause and effect. In other words, it could be that people who are depressed tend to drink more soda.

Though if you take the time to peruse on how many people in the US are depressed you'll get conflicting results depending on the "Study".

http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+percentage+of+the+population+that+are+depressed

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  1. mell


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    33   12:12pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    But still how ever, anti depressants are wayyyyy over prescribed, they tried to give that shit to my wife and it made her suicidal and defeated, she just wanted to die. WHY? She wasn't depressed to begin with, she had chronic roving intense muscle pains all over her body, the Doctors couldn't make an acurate diagnosis, so they gave her Ambian and then Cembaltra. In fact Cembaltra is now a common Arthritis remedy prescribed by Doctors. I would follow the statistics of Arthritic suicide rates in this country over the next 5 years.

    Most chronic conditions are so tough to figure out and treat that they take the easy way by numbing the patient down with SSRIs. Sometimes they also, prescribe immuno-suppressors, be on the lookout, similar issues as with SSRIs (side-effects). There is a lot of exciting new research going on in the realm of chronic conditions such as arthritis focusing more on pathogens/toxins and assuming the body has a reason to respond like it does instead of just shutting its defenses down with a sledge-hammer. Also there are natural inhibitors of chronic inflammation that are equally potent and have far less side effects such as (concentrated) Turmeric of which you can take a high daily dose without issues. Might not be a total cure, but worth a try. Good luck!

  2. CaptainShuddup


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    34   12:42pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    I finally cured her with Flexeril and Tylenol(the two lesser drugs one could take) two chiropractor visits and 3 deep tissue massages. all out of pocket of course. The doctors kept her in writhing pain for 4 months.
    She's been pain free or has manageable shoulder twinges now for three weeks.

    I think she over did it on the antioxidants and was overly stressed over her false cancer scare. We thought she would be a goner for about two months. Which that's another rant altogether.

  3. curious2


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    35   1:11pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Homeboy says

    First of all, the warnings on medications are things that could POSSIBLY happen. They are things that have happened in a very tiny number of people in test cases. If bad side effects were occurring in a majority of users of the drug, it would never get approved, or it would be pulled off the market.

    If you read the manufacturers' own studies, adverse side effect rates approach 50% vs placebo, while benefit is (at best and according to the manufacturers) around 10%. FDA ordered GSK to stop selling paroxetine to children, because there was no benefit. FDA further required a black box warning, their strongest warning category, regarding the risks of suicidal ideation and possible suicidality. Huge numbers of people have reported adverse effects, but there's also a huge amount of $$$ being made, so they stay on the market. As for the few who claim benefits, it's the placebo effect not the drug; eventually people get better, but they credit whatever drug they happen to be taking at that time. And, contrary to advertisers' and even doctors' assurances, the SSRIs with shorter serum half-lives (e.g. paroxetine) are known to cause physical dependence, more strongly than cocaine. So it's easy to see why Homeboy defends them. Addicts always defend their pushers and rationalize continuing their addiction.

    The worst trick is Obamacare, shifting the financial cost of that addiction onto everyone else via mandatory subsidized insurance. And, now that government can make you buy products and submit to involuntary contracts with corporations that bribe the legislators, big PhRMA can gets its hooks into even more people. You don't benefit, but they make $$$ at your expense.

    Homeboy calls that a "conspiracy" theory, but the deals were widely reported in plain sight.

  4. Call it Crazy


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    36   1:11pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    I finally cured her with Flexeril and Tylenol(the two lesser drugs one could take) two chiropractor visits and 3 deep tissue massages. all out of pocket of course. The doctors kept her in writhing pain for 4 months.

    Saw you mentioned Cymbalta, you have to be careful with that stuff. Dual use, good for arthritis but can have some interesting side affects with the SSRI side.

    Since you mentioned your wife had the deep tissue massages... I have arthritis and have taken a bunch of different crap to try and reduce the pain and inflammation. I've dealt with it for decades.

    The best thing I found, deep tissue massages. This has made a 180 degree turn around and has worked wonders that drugs would never had fixed. Plus, it treats the source, instead of just covering it up like drugs do. Absolutely amazing results with the deep tissue work.

    You might want to send your wife for some more deep tissue work. Be advised, it's not a one or two treatment fix. I found out it takes months to really get the pain under control. If she's found a good therapist who's good with her hands, it might make a world of difference for her.

  5. CaptainShuddup


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    37   1:19pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (3)  

    She's already getting much better.
    What REALLY had her fucked up was the Doctor telling her that she had fibromyalgia then she Googled it, and saw that most that had it, claimed there was no cure, and that she could expect to hurt like that forever.
    It seems to me, it's one of those things that if you resign to hurting the rest of your life, while taking the standard prescribed treatment, then that's what you'll get.

    I call it the "You're crazy lady" decease or the "it's nothing wrong with you that a good romp in the sack wont cure" but the Doctor can't tell them that. SO they make up absurd names for it.
    Like "Restless Leg Syndrome", "Firbromyalgia" and "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome"

    And create a revolving door of prescriptions and specialist referrals.

  6. Call it Crazy


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    38   1:26pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    It seems to me, it's one of those things that if you resign to hurting the rest of your life, while taking the standard prescribed treatment, then that's what you'll get.

    That's what I thought my future was, just hurting forever sucking down pain medication till I die.

    Not anymore, I feel the best I ever have and don't take all that drug crap...

    CaptainShuddup says

    And create a revolving door of prescriptions and specialist referrals.

    I'm done with that too!!

  7. Homeboy


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    39   7:11pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    mell says

    Most chronic conditions are so tough to figure out and treat that they take the easy way by numbing the patient down with SSRIs. Sometimes they also, prescribe immuno-suppressors, be on the lookout, similar issues as with SSRIs (side-effects). There is a lot of exciting new research going on in the realm of chronic conditions such as arthritis focusing more on pathogens/toxins and assuming the body has a reason to respond like it does instead of just shutting its defenses down with a sledge-hammer. Also there are natural inhibitors of chronic inflammation that are equally potent and have far less side effects such as (concentrated) Turmeric of which you can take a high daily dose without issues. Might not be a total cure, but worth a try. Good luck!

    Are you a physician?

  8. Homeboy


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    40   7:20pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)  

    mell says

    Homeboy says

    You are the one claiming that antidepressants are the sole cause of an increase in suicide rate between 1950 and now, that antidepressants take more lives than they save, and that suicide is tantamount to homicide. Therefore, the onus is on you to provide the evidence to support your claim.

    No I didn't, I came in somewhere in between your opinion and what you perceived my opinion is.

    It's right up there for everyone to read, you can't waffle on it now.

    You wrote: "Why don't you educate yourself and pull up the suicide rates in the US between 1950 and 2005 (or any other period) and you can't see any trend at all. I think the best claim anybody can make is that they saved as many as they have taken, which does not bode well as an argument to take any drug"

    You cited an increase in suicide rates as supposed evidence that antidepressants cause suicides.

    And before that, you wrote: "the word 'suicidal' (which can go hand in hand with homicidal"

    So yeah, you did say that stuff.

  9. Homeboy


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    41   7:41pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    That's not to say, that I don't think that there are those that are clinically depressed and anti depressants help them tremendously. Though for most of those people it often takes years of going from one to the next before they find one that in spite the short comings of the pill, makes their life easier to live.

    Well, Captain, I wish there was a magic pill that instantly cures depression, but that just doesn't exist. What we have are some meds that help people manage the symptoms, and that's far more than we had 100 years ago, when we just put people into mental institutions and let them suffer. If you want to imagine that they're killing more people than they're saving, and that this is some kind of conspiracy to kill people, go ahead. You don't have any proof of that. This stuff doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for a lot of people, and saved untold numbers of lives and saved an untold amount of suffering.

  10. curious2


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    42   7:49pm Mon 28 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    Homeboy says

    What we have are some meds that help people manage the symptoms, and that's far more than we had 100 years ago, when we just put people into mental institutions and let them suffer.

    You haven't listed your other symptoms or mental illnesses, but 100 years ago most people got more exercise, and very few complained of depression. It was at that time called melancholy, and was limited to the few people who could live sedentary lives and who failed to get enough exercise. The best treatment was, and still is, "an afternoon constitutional," i.e. a vigorous daily walk. Today, more than 10% of Americans are on SSRIs. There was never a time when 10% of Americans were in mental institutions.

    I couldn't understand before why you became so explosive in attacking me for criticizing Obamacare; you refused to read, and instead you called me all sorts of names. Now I see, you want Obamacare so you can be sure nothing will interrupt your supply of toxic, costly, habit-forming pills, so you won't have to go through withdrawal. Being an addict, you lash out when people try to tell you the truth.

    Homeboy says

    This stuff doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for a lot of people, and saved untold numbers of lives and saved an untold amount of suffering.

    SSRIs don't work for anyone. People try several different pills until they get better, and along the way they get better on their own. None of the pills worked, but the pushers are paid to tell you they do, and to keep pushing them. It isn't exactly a "conspiracy to kill people," it is instead "a big [something] deal" to make a lot of money.

  11. CaptainShuddup


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    43   6:20am Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    Homeboy says

    Well, Captain, I wish there was a magic pill that instantly cures depression, but that just doesn't exist. What we have are some meds that help people manage the symptoms, and that's far more than we had 100 years ago, when we just put people into mental institutions and let them suffer. If you want to imagine that they're killing more people than they're saving, and that this is some kind of conspiracy to kill people, go ahead. You don't have any proof of that. This stuff doesn't work for everyone, but it has worked for a lot of people, and saved untold numbers of lives and saved an untold amount of suffering.

    I don't doubt that, but I bet the numbers are like 50/50 for ever person it helps it makes matters ten times worse for someone else.

    Doctors and Pharms should be held accountable for those it doesn't help.
    Because as it is, we seem to look at like, well in the trials it helped 10 people, so if it gives you anal warts, high blood pressure, suicidal thoughts, bladder infection, and heart decease, then it's your defect not the pill. And THAT wraps up the whole mentality of the Big Pharm and Doctors that prescribe their poison with impunity. That is why the list of what a drug helps is only three word comment, but the possible side effects are 20 paragraphs. And if you experience any, then it's your defect not the medicine.

    What in the hell is wrong with you defending this Shit?

  12. Homeboy


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    44   11:36am Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (3)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    I don't doubt that, but I bet the numbers are like 50/50 for ever person it helps it makes matters ten times worse for someone else.

    That is a completely made-up statistic. It's nowhere close to 50-50, and you don't have the slightest bit of evidence suggesting that it is. And it's simply absurd. If studies had shown that 1 of every 2 people had symptoms "10 times worse" than they did before taking the drug, it would NEVER have been approved. You know perfectly well you're spreading a bald-faced lie.

    Do doctors mis-diagnose sometimes? Sure they do. I was diagnosed with asthma because of a lingering cough where they couldn't figure out the cause. I was given an inhaler. It did nothing for me; maybe made me cough a bit more if anything. Now, did I flip out and start ranting about asthma inhalers being poison and that nobody should ever be allowed to use an asthma inhaler? No, because I'm not an idiot.

    You admit that SSRIs help people, yet you are siding with the people who say nobody should ever be allowed to take them. So I'll use the same example again: Penicillin "makes things worse" for some people. Should we stop allowing ANYONE to use it?

  13. curious2


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    45   11:42am Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Homeboy, compare the safety and efficacy studies of penicillin vs SSRIs. If you actually read the numbers, you will find that SSRIs have near zero efficacy compared to placebo: for every 10 people who "got better" on the drug, 9 got better on the placebo. And for every 10 people who took the drug, 5 experienced adverse side effects. These numbers are from the manufacturers' paid studies, the SSRIs are 4x more likely to harm you than to help you. Independent studies find the numbers are even worse. I would post links, but when I did that for you in the past you refused to read and instead you insulted me, which is behavior typical of an addict.

  14. mell


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    46   11:50am Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Homeboy says

    mell says

    Most chronic conditions are so tough to figure out and treat that they take the easy way by numbing the patient down with SSRIs. Sometimes they also, prescribe immuno-suppressors, be on the lookout, similar issues as with SSRIs (side-effects). There is a lot of exciting new research going on in the realm of chronic conditions such as arthritis focusing more on pathogens/toxins and assuming the body has a reason to respond like it does instead of just shutting its defenses down with a sledge-hammer. Also there are natural inhibitors of chronic inflammation that are equally potent and have far less side effects such as (concentrated) Turmeric of which you can take a high daily dose without issues. Might not be a total cure, but worth a try. Good luck!

    Are you a physician?

    No, but I studied a fair amount of medicine as part of my degree and - more important - continued to keep up with latest research which takes quite a bit of time. And that is the problem with todays physicians, their knowledge is around 20 years old and there is no requirement whatsoever for them to freshen up. It is sad but these days researches (microbiologists, chemists, electro-physiologists etc.) know more about relevant latest data than your standard MD/GP. There are highly trained specialists which are really good and also highly skilled surgeons, but chances are you never meet them unless you would die otherwise and you are lucky enough to get properly diagnosed by your GP. For all the chronic stuff that eventually may lead to a severe enough condition where you will be seen/treated by one of the specialists you are left on your own, often ridiculed and quickly dismissed with anti-depressants in your pocket during the 15 minute (!) consultations.

  15. Homeboy


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    47   11:51am Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    https://www.medify.com/insights/article/7775364/a-double-blind-multicenter-trial-comparing-sertraline-and-fluoxetine-in-outpatients-with-major-depression

    “ CONCLUSION: Sertraline and fluoxetine were equally effective and well tolerated in patients with major depression and associated anxiety. ”

    https://www.medify.com/insights/article/15600379/long-term-management-of-major-depressive-disorder-are-differences-among-antidepressant-treatments-meaningful

    “ Thus, there is increasing evidence that venlafaxine and SSRIs are effective and well tolerated in long-term therapy. ”

    https://www.medify.com/insights/article/19953347/sertraline-treatment-is-associated-with-an-improvement-in-depression-and-health-related-quality-of-life-in-chronic-peritoneal-dialysis-patients

    “ Sertraline treatment improved BDI score of patients with depression”

    https://www.medify.com/insights/article/9201668/fluoxetine-vs-tricyclic-antidepressants-in-women-with-major-depressive-disorder

    “ This study demonstrates that fluoxetine is an effective and tolerable agent for the treatment of major depressive disorder in women. ”

    https://www.medify.com/insights/article/11138997/efficacy-and-safety-of-fluoxetine-in-the-treatment-of-patients-with-major-depression-after-first-myocardial-infarction-findings-from-a-double-blind-placebo-controlled-trial

    “ In addition, fluoxetine seemed to be particularly effective in patients with mild depression and was associated with a statistically significant reduction in hostility. ”

    https://www.medify.com/insights/article/14687320/efficacy-safety-and-tolerability-of-sertraline-in-patients-with-late-life-depression-and-comorbid-medical-illness

    “ CONCLUSION: Sertraline was efficacious in reducing depressive symptomatology, regardless of the presence of comorbid medical illness. ”

    https://www.medify.com/insights/article/11436952/sertraline-effects-in-adolescent-major-depression-and-dysthymia-a-six-month-open-trial

    Generally, sertraline was safe and well tolerated. Most adverse events were mild to moderate in severity and resolved with no action taken.

  16. CaptainShuddup


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    48   11:55am Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Homeboy says

    If studies had shown that 1 of every 2 people had symptoms "10 times worse" than they did before taking the drug, it would NEVER have been approved. You know perfectly well you're spreading a bald-faced lie.

    http://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=971x6162x16694070

    Here's a good 10 hour read.

  17. CaptainShuddup


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    49   11:57am Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

  18. curious2


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    50   12:00pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Homeboy, look at the actual numbers. When they say "effective," they are referring to 10% of test subjects compared to placebo. If you go with their advertising conclusions, while ignoring the actual numbers, you're kidding yourself with advertising not science.

  19. Homeboy


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    51   12:00pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    mell says

    No, but I studied a fair amount of medicine as part of my degree and - more important - continued to keep up with latest research which takes quite a bit of time. And that is the problem with todays physicians, their knowledge is around 20 years old and there is no requirement whatsoever for them to freshen up. It is sad but these days researches (microbiologists, chemists, electro-physiologists etc.) know more about relevant latest data than your standard MD/GP. There are highly trained specialists which are really good and also highly skilled surgeons, but chances are you never meet them unless you would die otherwise and you are lucky enough to get properly diagnosed by your GP. For all the chronic stuff that eventually may lead to a severe enough condition where you will be seen/treated by one of the specialists you are left on your own, often ridiculed and quickly dismissed with anti-depressants in your pocket during the 15 minute (!) consultations.

    Here's the problem - too many armchair physicians. You read a couple of fringe websites and you imagine yourself to know more than doctors who went to med school and had the extensive training that doctors get in this country. I call bullshit. You've already shown that you have some pretty ridiculous non-scientific ideas. Anyone who thinks that a rise in suicide rate between 1950 and now is proof that SSRIs kill as many people than they save, is just not thinking rationally. You don't seem to even grasp the difference between correlation and causation, yet you believe you know more than all the experts in the medical field. I just don't buy it. Sorry.

  20. curious2


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    52   12:03pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    mell says

    todays physicians, their knowledge is around 20 years old and there is no requirement whatsoever for them to freshen up.

    Many are required to endure "Continuing Medical Education," basically PhRMA infomercials, which tend to be worse than useless. PhRMA is forever touting the "new & improved" (patented) drugs, until the patent expires, then you see new studies showing how the "new new super-improved" pill is much better and the old one was lousy. It gives rise to the practitioners' adage, "Always prescribe a new drug in its first two years on the market, while it still works."

  21. Homeboy


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    53   12:03pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Homeboy says

    If studies had shown that 1 of every 2 people had symptoms "10 times worse" than they did before taking the drug, it would NEVER have been approved. You know perfectly well you're spreading a bald-faced lie.

    http://www.sparkpeople.com/myspark/team_messageboard_thread.asp?board=971x6162x16694070

    Here's a good 10 hour read.

    And again, the same problem - too many armchair physicians. You don't even seem to understand the difference between a double-blind study and an internet message board. Plus, we weren't even TALKING about Ambien!

  22. CaptainShuddup


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    54   12:06pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Well at least nobody has ever swallowed a muzzle flash from Pot.

  23. curious2


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    55   12:07pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    Homeboy says

    You don't even seem to understand the difference between a double-blind study and an internet message board.

    We do understand that difference.

    You don't seem to understand the difference between manufacturers' paid verbiage and actual data. Read the actual numbers, which show only 10% efficacy compared to placebo, with a side effect rate near 50%. If you ignore the numbers and read only the sponsors' paid spin, you're deluding yourself by reading only what you want to hear.

    And, regarding Internet message boards, they were the first to report that SSRIs cause physical dependence. Manufacturers had denied that specifically, including in DTC advertising on TV and "education" delivered to physicians. The dependence you're experiencing, which your physician was told to tell you would never happen, is now very widely reported and well documented. Read about SSRI withdrawal syndrome.

    Lastly, always check the duration of "studies". Most last only a few months. The study length can be adjusted to report favorable results, like tossing a coin many times until you get a count that makes it look like more heads than tails. If they end early, they issue a press release along the lines of, "the results were so encouraging we had to tell everyone immediately." If the results say the drug is useless, they extend the study or throw $ to a poor doctor in a "rescue country" to re-do it. And after-effects, like SSRI withdrawal syndrome or Vioxx strokes, are excluded because the study "ends" when people stop taking the pills, so the after-effects don't show up at all.

  24. Homeboy


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    56   5:43pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Well at least nobody has ever swallowed a muzzle flash from Pot.

    The problem with marijuana is that a lot of people self medicate with it, and it has a tendency to make depression worse rather than better. Same for alcohol. SSRIs have been shown to be non habit forming.

  25. everything


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    57   6:25pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Great comments on this thread!

    Yes, it is amusing how big pharma keeps re branding it's SSRI's, coming out with new names for them to alleviate the stigma. My current final opinion on western medicine is that sickness=profit.

    Mother Jones covered this one issue back.

    http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2012/10/sugar-industry-lies-campaign

  26. Homeboy


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    58   10:35pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    errc says

    If you really wanted to gauge effectiveness of these worthless and dangerous drugs, rather than compare them to a placebo, they should be judged relative to an elimination diet.

    You really are what you eat, and the majority of these conditions that are "treated" with drugs would likely be cured by eliminating whatever it is that is causing them in the patients diet. That and realizing a healthy macronutrient profille, or at least sumplementing the vitamins. And minerals that you are lacking in.

    Fuck all to those physicians, go see a nutritionist that knows what they are doing, or educate yourself with the wealth of information that is at our collective disposal. Of course, forgetting that which you think you know, shedding your assumptions, and replacing your misingormation with good info, is easier said than done

    Oh, Jesus Christ - not the "vitamin" thing. What a fucking load of crap.

    http://www.rd.com/health/wellness/5-vitamin-truths-and-lies/

    No, don't go see a "nutritionist" instead of getting real treatment from a doctor.

    http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09350.html

    "Ten Red Flags for Consumers

    Recommendations that promise a quick fix.
    Dire warnings of danger from a single product or regimen.
    Claims that sound too good to be true.
    Simplistic conclusions drawn from a complex study.
    Recommendations based on a single study.
    Dramatic statements that are refuted by reputable scientific organizations.
    Lists of "good" and "bad" foods.
    Recommendations made to help sell a product.
    Recommendations based on studies published without peer review.
    Recommendations from studies that ignore differences among individuals or groups."

    Sound familiar?

    "It has been reported that in 2007, Americans spent $39.5 billion on complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) services in search of short cuts or simple solutions to better health. Health fraud can be defined as misinformation about health, ranging from a self-proclaimed medical expert who has discovered a miracle cure, to a food supplement or drug that is promoted with unproven health claims.

    A person who pretends to be able to cure a disease or health problem is defined as a quack. Problems that help promote quackery include:

    Lack of laws to prevent someone from selling anything as long as it is called a dietary supplement.
    Almost anyone can call himself or herself a nutritionist. Thousands of people who call themselves nutritionists have dubious credentials from nonaccredited schools.
    Research scientists who go public with their findings before their study has been published in a peer reviewed journal or duplicated, thus causing Consumer confusion about what to believe.

    A product may state that you can eat all you want and still lose weight, or that it can help overcome the aging process, arthritis and even cancer. These products usually do nothing to improve health and often are expensive. Even worse, they can be harmful or delay necessary medical treatment."

    "Targets of Questionable Treatments

    Alternative treatments are designed to appeal to anyone, but certain conditions and populations are more likely to be targeted:

    The unsuspecting who are unable to question things critically. To them, all health claims seem to make sense.
    The naive who are looking for a magic cure. They believe that printed or spoken claims must be true.
    The desperate who have incurable or potentially fatal diseases and are hoping for a cure that medical science has not yet been able to provide.
    The alienated who feel animosity toward medicine or the scientific community."

    Does that sound like anyone here on this forum?

  27. curious2


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    59   11:10pm Tue 29 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  
  28. CaptainShuddup


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    60   7:34am Wed 30 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    Homeboy says

    The problem with marijuana is that a lot of people self medicate with it, and it has a tendency to make depression worse rather than better.

    That's because they aren't taking it with Spongebob square pants, and fudgestripe cookies.

  29. Homeboy


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    61   1:01pm Wed 30 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    That's because they aren't taking it with Spongebob square pants, and fudgestripe cookies.

    Yeah, that should be required.

  30. CaptainShuddup


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    62   4:02pm Wed 30 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    I would agree that people that are depressed should not smoke pot, if they have never smoked it or not used to smoking it. As for pot heads that self medicate, what difference does it make if it gets the job done for them?

    I went through a bout of Dissociation, and at the time, pot only agitated me after smoking. Either that or I was smoking mean green.
    That lasted about three months, before I started feeling normal again.

    But seriously I'd take depression over Dissociation any day. Nothing gives you pleasure and you want to be left alone, but even that was unbearable as I couldn't stand being my own skin. I never felt suicidal, but it was a bad state to be in. I'd take ten "young love" heart breaks all at once over that.

  31. curious2


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    63   4:45pm Wed 30 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    There are different ways to deal with PTSD, but pills make it worse and talk therapy with a paid licensed person isn't better than spending the same amount of time talking with someone who isn't paid or licensed. Physical exercise is probably the single best thing, but that isn't always apparent in a world where the media and government are always trying to sell you something on behalf of their commercial sponsors.

    A common pattern is, young guys running hard in a stressful environment get accustomed to eating and burning two or three times more calories than a normal person would, then come home and keep consuming the same number of calories due to habit. Their metabolisms slow down because they aren't using as much energy and because they're getting older. They aren't getting as much exercise anymore, so muscle turns to fat, so they start getting other medical problems and they don't always get the same - ahem - personal attention that they did at their peak. Often they start drinking, which makes them more depressed. Anxiety and depression are closely linked, so instead of recovering from their stress they add a new layer of anxiety to it.

    If you look at the guys who do well, they tend to have solid pre-existing networks of families and friends, they continue to push themselves mentally and physically, and they don't get fat. If you look at the guys who do badly, they tend to come from addictive families, they spend too much time sitting and drinking, and they slide down a spiral.

    Despite the claims from various lobbies that try to make you buy what they're selling, they don't really have solutions for sale. Their business model requires turning problems into revenue centers, and that tends to mean finding credible (usually also credulous) salesmen to push products and services that continue the problem instead of solving it.

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    64   8:42pm Wed 30 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    what difference does it make if it gets the job done for them?

    I don't think it gets the job done. There isn't any good evidence that marijuana use cures depression. There are other treatments that are more effective.

  33. curious2


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    65   8:43pm Wed 30 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Homeboy says

    There isn't any good evidence that marijuana use cures depression. There are other treatments that are more effective.

    There isn't good evidence for SSRIs either, but that doesn't stop you from insisting everybody pay for them. Physical exercise is proven to be effective, and it costs nothing.

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    66   5:24am Thu 31 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Homeboy says

    There isn't any good evidence that marijuana use cures depression.

    Nothing cures depression but time, if it's just a case of the blues, if it's more a chronic brain damage. Then not even Pills "Cure" depression.
    I work with a guy that is in his 50's, he says he's been depressed since he was 21. He sits at his desk with blue LED lights shining on his face. He says that actually helps. It looks like a bunch of hooey to me, but he swears by it.

  35. Homeboy


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    67   1:40pm Thu 31 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Nothing cures depression but time, if it's just a case of the blues, if it's more a chronic brain damage. Then not even Pills "Cure" depression.

    I work with a guy that is in his 50's, he says he's been depressed since he was 21. He sits at his desk with blue LED lights shining on his face. He says that actually helps. It looks like a bunch of hooey to me, but he swears by it.

    If it works, that's great. It's just that the evidence shows marijuana doesn't work that well as a treatment for depression. It's supposedly really good for nausea and glaucoma, but for depression, not so much.

    Why are you so hell bent on depressed people smoking weed when there are other treatments that actually show results? Seems like a narrow view to me. Insisting that marijuana is the only good treatment isn't being any more open minded than others insisting pills are the only good treatment. I think that's the main problem with the "alternative" crowd. You just assume anything that you perceive as "alternative" is automatically good, and anything that's "mainstream" is automatically bad. That's actually a much more rigid outlook than the medical profession which you decry.

  36. CaptainShuddup


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    68   2:24pm Thu 31 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Smoking weed doesn't cure anything.
    How ever Vaporizing it at controlled temperatures, is therapeutic for multiple ailments. Depending on the ailment. At different temps it produces different compounds. at 356 it starts producing antidepressant properties.
    Smoking a joint or bong hits, you never get past THC.

    Cannabis is made of more than 65 different psychoactive chemical compound.

    Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) : boiling point -> 157C (315F) flash point -> not sure
    Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

    Cannabidiol (CBD) : boiling point -> 180C(356F) flash point -> 207C(405F)
    Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

    Cannabinol (CBN) : boiling point -> 185C(365F) flash point -> 212C(414F)
    Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

    Cannabichromene (CBC) : boiling point -> 220C(428F) flash point -> not sure
    Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

    Cannabigerol (CBG) : boiling point ->not sure flash point -> not sure
    Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

    Tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV) : boiling point -> 220C(428F) flashpoint -> not sure
    Properties: Analgesic. Anti-inflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

    Pulegone : boiling point -> 224C(436) flash point -> not sure
    Properties: Memory booster, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

    Here is a good pdf about other stuff that is not here, a good read.

    http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/2001-03-04-7.pdf

  37. leo707


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    69   3:28pm Thu 31 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Nothing cures depression but time, if it's just a case of the blues, if it's more a chronic brain damage. Then not even Pills "Cure" depression.

    Except maybe pot?

    CaptainShuddup says

    at 356 it starts producing antidepressant properties.

  38. Homeboy


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    70   8:46pm Thu 31 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    CaptainShuddup says

    Smoking weed doesn't cure anything.

    How ever Vaporizing it at controlled temperatures, is therapeutic for multiple ailments. Depending on the ailment. At different temps it produces different compounds. at 356 it starts producing antidepressant properties.

    Smoking a joint or bong hits, you never get past THC.

    What's your point?

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