WatchHint the word "Study" was used in every paragraph. Study has become one of those marginalized words, that Libs like to throw around to give their injection indisputable scientific credence.
A new study found that those who drink a fair amount of sweetened sodas and fruit drinks – whether diet or regular – have an increased risk of depression. Java-drinkers, on the other hand, have a slightly lower risk of the blues.
The study was presented at the American Academy of Neurology's annual meeting in San Diego this week.
Previous studies have found that drinking sweetened beverages was associated with a higher prevalence of depression, suicidal thoughts and other mental distress. But this study was the first prospective study, meaning it followed people over a number of years.
From 1995 to 1996, consumption of drinks such as soda, tea, fruit punch and coffee was evaluated in 263,925 adults. About 10 years later, researchers asked the participants whether they had been diagnosed with depression since the year 2000. A total of 11,311 people said yes.
The researchers acknowledge the study does not prove a cause and effect. In other words, it could be that people who are depressed tend to drink more soda.
Though if you take the time to peruse on how many people in the US are depressed you'll get conflicting results depending on the "Study".
http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+percentage+of+the+population+that+are+depressed
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Maybe there is a reason so many Americans are depressed.
Drugs, for the most part relieve symptoms. The underlying cause of much depression (in my opinion) is the helplessness many feel about their day to day situations.
Instead of getting to the root of the problem many doctors just say, "Take a pill".
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I agree.
Most social "studies" don't take into account mitigating factors.
Also "studies" like
"People who eat fast food ....."
"People who exercise ...."
"People from lower incomes ...."
"Those who eat/drink/watch ..."
Almost all of studies have tremendous variation in outliers and inputs.
The only studies that are to be taken serious is where:
Something is added or subtracted
Prior to it being added or subtracted, one two specific values are recorded, and subsequently followed for a period of days/months/years.
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The Professor says
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The most depressed people I've ever met, are people that should have been the world's happiest people.
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I went though a bout of depression.
It was in a time I should have been doing cartwheels 24/7.
I had just realized a 12 year long dream and closed on my house. I had the ideal dream job, I worked from home and made more that I have ever had in my life. I had a music studio in my house bigger than most people's living room. I was living my dream. But I was in this low funk I couldn't shake. I didn't let it drag me down. I kept asking my self, "Why am I so blue?".
Finally my open contract I had been working for two years fell apart, due to internal company changes. Then the person that I was the resource for was let go, then subsequently so was I.
I quickly found another job, making a little less, but it got me out of the house. Then I started coming around. And realized that I had spent a good 97% of my time at home for the last 2 years, and that was why I was depressed. I didn't have much social interaction out side of conference calls, and the internet.
Now I'm just a wonderful beacon of sunshine.
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The Professor says
They don't want us buying drugs they aren't selling, they want us buying drugs big brother wants us to buy.
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CaptainShuddup says
Sometimes the dream is better than the reality.
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The Professor says
The Pharm lobby is even more dangerous than the gun lobby IMO.
Mood altering drugs scare me much more than AK-47s.
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Know or Now that is the question......
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Seems to me that the study was funded by coffee makers.
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elliemae's website
People are always looking for cause & effect - and if they can't find one, they'll make it up. It makes them feel better if they can explain something.
I see this in healthcare all the time - for example, family members that blame medication overdose as the reason that a patient died rather than accepting that the patient was dying and the meds made them more comfortable.
My favorite spoof on cause & effect - do you remember those Karl Malden traveler's checks commercials? Where it would show someone stranded in a foreign country because their money was lost or stolen - then Karl would step in and ask if that had happened to you... and tell you that if you had traveler's checks they would have been replaced and you'd be okay.
So, didn't anyone find it suspicious that, whenever someone's money was stolen, Karl Malden was always there?
CaptainShuddup says
Lol
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The Professor says
Usually it's caused by lack of exercise. Depression is a disease of affluence, i.e. it occurs primarily in populations that have achieved comfortable and mostly sedentary lifestyles. Genuine studies, not funded by PhRMA, have shown that physical exercise outperforms "anti-depressant" pills every time, and it costs nothing. I was sad to read about the suicide of Aaron Swartz, who had been complaining of depression. I don't know what pills he may have been prescribed, but some SSRIs double the risk of suicide, while a daily walk or swim might have saved him.
[UPDATED: On January 17, The Los Angeles Times quoted Aaron's father: "He had never been diagnosed as having depression; he was never on medication for having depression.... So the notion, the narrative that people are going to say -- is that he’s somebody who just has depression -- is just wrong. You’d be depressed too if you were under a 13-count federal indictment and you go see your mother, who’s in a coma." Sometimes parents don't always know the complete medical information of their kids, for example Target reportedly upset a father who didn't know his daughter was pregnant, but in fairness I wanted to update this post.]
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Lack of exercise, bad diet. Might well be that depression is caused, among other things, by a lack of omega 3 fatty acids in the brain. DHA is critical to proper myelination of neurons. Contrary to popular belief, depression is not caused by a prozac deficiency.
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MMR says
B12 is also very important for myelination, and methylcobalamin is the preferred version for supplementation for most (most contain the vastly inferior cyanocobalamin).
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Goran_K says
This is just alarmist bullshit. Tell us exactly which "mood altering drug" is making people "dangerous".
Alternatives are offered: group therapy and classes on dealing with depression. They don't always work. Sometimes depression has a "cause"; sometimes it doesn't. It can be a debilitating illness. Countless lives have been saved with medication. Major depression is not just feeling "down" or "having the blues". If it hasn't happened to you then you can't possibly understand how serious it is. The fact is, we don't know what causes depression; we only know it exists. To say that nobody should use medication if it can help is just ridiculous.
SSRIs increase the level of serotonin in the brain. It's not a cure, and nobody has ever said it was. Just as aspirin doesn't cure a headache, but it relieves suffering. SSRIs have side effects. It's not an exact science. But for someone who can't even get out of bed because of depression, it's worth the trade-off. By the way, Prozac is the worst one. They have come out with much better drugs with fewer side effects since Prozac.
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Homeboy, your comment explains a lot about your behavior. Although SSRIs do affect serotonin levels, nobody has really proved they relieve suffering; to the contrary, their side effects often worsen the situation.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57380893/treating-depression-is-there-a-placebo-effect/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel
Some have been shown to double the risk of suicide. Also, Ambien may cause dangerous behaviors while sleepwalking. I don't owe you any favors Homeboy, but I'm not trying to sell you anything either - unlike the medical industrial complex. A vigorous afternoon walk every day, what the British used to call an afternoon constitutional, is much better for anxiety and depression than any pill. Swimming can be even better, if you have access to a pool. You can stick to your pills if you want to, and shift the cost onto everyone else via Obamacare, but ultimately you pay for them in ways worse than money.
[Oops - I forgot Homeboy is "Ignoring" me, even though he sometimes replies to my comments, so he probably won't see this one. His loss.]
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CaptainShuddup says
That's because your nose is too close to your asshole.
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I guess it's a lot easier for some people to believe there's a massive government conspiracy than to believe that mental illness exists.
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Homeboy says
If you took the time to read the (possible) side-effects section of all mood-altering drugs on the market and count how many have the word 'suicidal' (which can go hand in hand with homicidal) in it, then you would know how dangerous they are.
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Homeboy says
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you."
You might want to read about what's been happening in Florida, with juvies forced onto Rx drugs that can leave them with life-long side effects, for the enrichment of PhRMA and Medicaid prescribers. And you might want to read about the deal between PhRMA and the White House (which the White House initially denied but then admitted) to support Obamacare. And count the ads on the evening news, to see whom it's brought to you by (mostly PhRMA). It isn't about health or illness, it's about money and power.
Or just stick with your Stockholm Syndrome and selective Credulous Personality Disorder, praising the purveyors of disproved treatments and demanding that they must be paid even more ransom. It's only life, after all.
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mell says
I already know that Prozac has been associated with occasional risk of suicidal thoughts. But there are far more people who without a doubt would have killed themselves if they hadn't had medication. SSRIs have saved many, many more lives than they have taken. You need to educate yourself. You are reacting out of ignorance and fear.
Some people are allergic to penicillin. Should we stop allowing anyone to use penicillin?
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Homeboy says
The statistics are exactly opposite. You attempt to refute them with a counterfactual narrative, "without a doubt," which is fundamentalism not science. To the extent some people improve while on pills, it isn't because of the pills; nearly the same number improve on placebo, and without side effects. Even the manufacturers' own paid "studies" admit only 10% "benefit" compared to placebo, and they are notorious for cherry-picking their studies including adjusting the timing so that the "study" ends when the coin-toss is mostly heads. In contrast, a daily walk or swim does produce statistically significant improvement, with only positive side effects. But your comments illustrate the essence of Obamacare: a policy demanded by the mentally ill and delusional, supplied by lobbyists who gain money and power keeping them that way.
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Homeboy says
Why don't you educate yourself and pull up the suicide rates in the US between 1950 and 2005 (or any other period) and you can't see any trend at all. I think the best claim anybody can make is that they saved as many as they have taken, which does not bode well as an argument to take any drug. Here is another link actually partially defending SSRIs, but also coming to the conclusion that they are at best neutral.
http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/05/ssris-and-suicide.html
So I think it should be ok to be skeptical of them. Penicillin has a clear effect on the pathogens it targets and there is also a clear allergy profile. None of this is true for SSRIs.
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mell says
Exactly. A basic problem is PhRMA gets drugs approved based on minimally "significant" effect, which they can simulate by manipulating the "studies". Really effective drugs like aspirin and penicillin have obvious effects, greater than 50% difference compared to placebo. If you insist on at least a 50% difference between the treatment group and the placebo group, it's harder to fake, but the law doesn't require that, because it would cut into revenues and spending. Above 50%, you can say something probably works as described; below 50%, it is more accurate to say that it probably won't help. Nevertheless, Obamacare requires you to pay for it either way, which is the point: paying politicians to require people to buy stuff that a rational person would not buy, at a price that a rational person would not pay.
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mell says
This is absurd on its face. You are claiming a correlation between suicide rates in the 1950s and SSRIs, which weren't developed until the 1970s. Do you even listen to yourself? LOL.
mell says
Totally made up. You have absolutely no evidence to support that statement.
mell says
Studies of SSRIs have shown a clear effect for people with major depression. If you want to ignore reality and believe in your conspiracy theories, go right ahead. I will stick with the truth.
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mell says
No it doesn't. Making stuff up again, I see.
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The Professor says
similar to other depressants used in USSR..
Vodka .. slipping and falling all day long.
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Homeboy says
That shows that whatever was tried during that period didn't have much effect. You don't have to start at 1950, you can start at 1980 if you want. That was a weak attempt to ridicule. Medicine is one area where you cannot lecture me - although I am always looking to broaden my knowledge if you can present any meaningful data, so far you haven't.
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Homeboy says
Here's a good summary on the topic, you don't have to accept it but at least it may get you thinking:
http://www.encognitive.com/node/886
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mell says
I didn't start at 1950, YOU did. Now your argument is what - that ALL medications tried between 1950 and 1980 cause suicides? Certainly you have heard the maxim that correlation does not imply causation.
It would be useless to lecture you on medicine. You don't even understand the rudiments of science or even simple logic, let alone medicine.
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mell says
I'm always thinking. The difference is I don't STOP thinking when I read some alarmist nonsense on the internet. Obviously, you do. See, this is the problem when you get all your information from bogus websites.
Where to begin...? First of all, the warnings on medications are things that could POSSIBLY happen. They are things that have happened in a very tiny number of people in test cases. If bad side effects were occurring in a majority of users of the drug, it would never get approved, or it would be pulled off the market.
Does this Moira Dolan, M.D present any evidence that "suicide and homicide go hand in hand", as you claim? Any evidence at all? Nope. Any statistics, charts, or graphs? Nope.
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mell says
You are the one claiming that antidepressants are the sole cause of an increase in suicide rate between 1950 and now, that antidepressants take more lives than they save, and that suicide is tantamount to homicide. Therefore, the onus is on you to provide the evidence to support your claim.
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Homeboy says
I would agree with that.
That's not to say, that I don't think that there are those that are clinically depressed and anti depressants help them tremendously. Though for most of those people it often takes years of going from one to the next before they find one that in spite the short comings of the pill, makes their life easier to live.
But still how ever, anti depressants are wayyyyy over prescribed, they tried to give that shit to my wife and it made her suicidal and defeated, she just wanted to die. WHY? She wasn't depressed to begin with, she had chronic roving intense muscle pains all over her body, the Doctors couldn't make an acurate diagnosis, so they gave her Ambian and then Cembaltra. In fact Cembaltra is now a common Arthritis remedy prescribed by Doctors. I would follow the statistics of Arthritic suicide rates in this country over the next 5 years.
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Homeboy says
No I didn't, I came in somewhere in between your opinion and what you perceived my opinion is. I'd go with what the Captain said here. I had the same experience after being stuck with a clearly physical condition for a while that was just a bit too complex for the mainstream docs to waste their precious time with, so at the end of the consultation I always saw a bottle of Cymbalta gradually sliding towards my direction. At first I thought it was an outlier, but it was the norm with most docs. I had to research and resolve it myself and with the help of a good functional doc out of my network which I have been paying ever since. Some docs even said "oh wait, it also has pain relieving properties if you don't want to think of it as an anti-depressant" ;) Some SSRIs actually even posses immuno-modulatory / stimulating properties, so by all means keep researching.
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CaptainShuddup says
Most chronic conditions are so tough to figure out and treat that they take the easy way by numbing the patient down with SSRIs. Sometimes they also, prescribe immuno-suppressors, be on the lookout, similar issues as with SSRIs (side-effects). There is a lot of exciting new research going on in the realm of chronic conditions such as arthritis focusing more on pathogens/toxins and assuming the body has a reason to respond like it does instead of just shutting its defenses down with a sledge-hammer. Also there are natural inhibitors of chronic inflammation that are equally potent and have far less side effects such as (concentrated) Turmeric of which you can take a high daily dose without issues. Might not be a total cure, but worth a try. Good luck!
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I finally cured her with Flexeril and Tylenol(the two lesser drugs one could take) two chiropractor visits and 3 deep tissue massages. all out of pocket of course. The doctors kept her in writhing pain for 4 months.
She's been pain free or has manageable shoulder twinges now for three weeks.
I think she over did it on the antioxidants and was overly stressed over her false cancer scare. We thought she would be a goner for about two months. Which that's another rant altogether.
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Homeboy says
If you read the manufacturers' own studies, adverse side effect rates approach 50% vs placebo, while benefit is (at best and according to the manufacturers) around 10%. FDA ordered GSK to stop selling paroxetine to children, because there was no benefit. FDA further required a black box warning, their strongest warning category, regarding the risks of suicidal ideation and possible suicidality. Huge numbers of people have reported adverse effects, but there's also a huge amount of $$$ being made, so they stay on the market. As for the few who claim benefits, it's the placebo effect not the drug; eventually people get better, but they credit whatever drug they happen to be taking at that time. And, contrary to advertisers' and even doctors' assurances, the SSRIs with shorter serum half-lives (e.g. paroxetine) are known to cause physical dependence, more strongly than cocaine. So it's easy to see why Homeboy defends them. Addicts always defend their pushers and rationalize continuing their addiction.
The worst trick is Obamacare, shifting the financial cost of that addiction onto everyone else via mandatory subsidized insurance. And, now that government can make you buy products and submit to involuntary contracts with corporations that bribe the legislators, big PhRMA can gets its hooks into even more people. You don't benefit, but they make $$$ at your expense.
Homeboy calls that a "conspiracy" theory, but the deals were widely reported in plain sight.
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CaptainShuddup says
Saw you mentioned Cymbalta, you have to be careful with that stuff. Dual use, good for arthritis but can have some interesting side affects with the SSRI side.
Since you mentioned your wife had the deep tissue massages... I have arthritis and have taken a bunch of different crap to try and reduce the pain and inflammation. I've dealt with it for decades.
The best thing I found, deep tissue massages. This has made a 180 degree turn around and has worked wonders that drugs would never had fixed. Plus, it treats the source, instead of just covering it up like drugs do. Absolutely amazing results with the deep tissue work.
You might want to send your wife for some more deep tissue work. Be advised, it's not a one or two treatment fix. I found out it takes months to really get the pain under control. If she's found a good therapist who's good with her hands, it might make a world of difference for her.
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She's already getting much better.
What REALLY had her fucked up was the Doctor telling her that she had fibromyalgia then she Googled it, and saw that most that had it, claimed there was no cure, and that she could expect to hurt like that forever.
It seems to me, it's one of those things that if you resign to hurting the rest of your life, while taking the standard prescribed treatment, then that's what you'll get.
I call it the "You're crazy lady" decease or the "it's nothing wrong with you that a good romp in the sack wont cure" but the Doctor can't tell them that. SO they make up absurd names for it.
Like "Restless Leg Syndrome", "Firbromyalgia" and "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome"
And create a revolving door of prescriptions and specialist referrals.
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CaptainShuddup says
That's what I thought my future was, just hurting forever sucking down pain medication till I die.
Not anymore, I feel the best I ever have and don't take all that drug crap...
CaptainShuddup says
I'm done with that too!!