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Now how I can tell this is bullshit?


By Mr Happygoluckofus   Follow   Tue, 8 Jan 2013, 11:37pm PST   3,837 views   72 comments   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (5)  

Hint the word "Study" was used in every paragraph. Study has become one of those marginalized words, that Libs like to throw around to give their injection indisputable scientific credence.

A new study found that those who drink a fair amount of sweetened sodas and fruit drinks – whether diet or regular – have an increased risk of depression. Java-drinkers, on the other hand, have a slightly lower risk of the blues.

The study was presented at the American Academy of Neurology's annual meeting in San Diego this week.

Previous studies have found that drinking sweetened beverages was associated with a higher prevalence of depression, suicidal thoughts and other mental distress. But this study was the first prospective study, meaning it followed people over a number of years.

From 1995 to 1996, consumption of drinks such as soda, tea, fruit punch and coffee was evaluated in 263,925 adults. About 10 years later, researchers asked the participants whether they had been diagnosed with depression since the year 2000. A total of 11,311 people said yes.

The researchers acknowledge the study does not prove a cause and effect. In other words, it could be that people who are depressed tend to drink more soda.

Though if you take the time to peruse on how many people in the US are depressed you'll get conflicting results depending on the "Study".

http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+percentage+of+the+population+that+are+depressed

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The Professor   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 12:07am PST   Share   Quote   Like (4)   Dislike (1)     Comment 1

Maybe there is a reason so many Americans are depressed.

Drugs, for the most part relieve symptoms. The underlying cause of much depression (in my opinion) is the helplessness many feel about their day to day situations.

Instead of getting to the root of the problem many doctors just say, "Take a pill".

Ironman   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 12:27am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (3)     Comment 2

The Professor says

Instead of getting to the root of the problem many doctors just say, "Take a pill".

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 12:39am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 3

The most depressed people I've ever met, are people that should have been the world's happiest people.

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 12:44am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (2)     Comment 4

I went though a bout of depression.
It was in a time I should have been doing cartwheels 24/7.
I had just realized a 12 year long dream and closed on my house. I had the ideal dream job, I worked from home and made more that I have ever had in my life. I had a music studio in my house bigger than most people's living room. I was living my dream. But I was in this low funk I couldn't shake. I didn't let it drag me down. I kept asking my self, "Why am I so blue?".
Finally my open contract I had been working for two years fell apart, due to internal company changes. Then the person that I was the resource for was let go, then subsequently so was I.
I quickly found another job, making a little less, but it got me out of the house. Then I started coming around. And realized that I had spent a good 97% of my time at home for the last 2 years, and that was why I was depressed. I didn't have much social interaction out side of conference calls, and the internet.

Now I'm just a wonderful beacon of sunshine.

FortWayne   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 12:50am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (2)     Comment 5

The Professor says

Maybe there is a reason so many Americans are depressed.

Drugs, for the most part relieve symptoms. The underlying cause of much depression (in my opinion) is the helplessness many feel about their day to day situations.

Instead of getting to the root of the problem many doctors just say, "Take a pill".

They don't want us buying drugs they aren't selling, they want us buying drugs big brother wants us to buy.

New Renter   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 12:50am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 6

CaptainShuddup says

It was in a time I should have been doing cartwheels 24/7.

I had just realized a 12 year long dream and closed on my house. I had the ideal dream job, I worked from home and made more that I have ever had in my life. I had a music studio in my house bigger than most people's living room. I was living my dream. But I was in this low funk I couldn't shake. I didn't let it drag me down. I kept asking my self, "Why am I so blue?".

Sometimes the dream is better than the reality.

Goran_K   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 1:00am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 7

The Professor says

Instead of getting to the root of the problem many doctors just say, "Take a pill".

The Pharm lobby is even more dangerous than the gun lobby IMO.

Mood altering drugs scare me much more than AK-47s.

yup1   befriend   ignore   Wed, 9 Jan 2013, 1:15am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 8

Know or Now that is the question......

zzyzzx   befriend   ignore   Fri, 11 Jan 2013, 11:04am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 9

Seems to me that the study was funded by coffee makers.

elliemae   befriend   ignore   Sat, 12 Jan 2013, 6:07am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (2)     Comment 10

People are always looking for cause & effect - and if they can't find one, they'll make it up. It makes them feel better if they can explain something.

I see this in healthcare all the time - for example, family members that blame medication overdose as the reason that a patient died rather than accepting that the patient was dying and the meds made them more comfortable.

My favorite spoof on cause & effect - do you remember those Karl Malden traveler's checks commercials? Where it would show someone stranded in a foreign country because their money was lost or stolen - then Karl would step in and ask if that had happened to you... and tell you that if you had traveler's checks they would have been replaced and you'd be okay.

So, didn't anyone find it suspicious that, whenever someone's money was stolen, Karl Malden was always there?

CaptainShuddup says

Now I'm just a wonderful beacon of sunshine.

Lol

curious2   befriend   ignore   Sat, 12 Jan 2013, 7:13am PST   Share   Quote   Like (4)   Dislike     Comment 11

The Professor says

The underlying cause of much depression (in my opinion) is the helplessness many feel about their day to day situations.

Usually it's caused by lack of exercise. Depression is a disease of affluence, i.e. it occurs primarily in populations that have achieved comfortable and mostly sedentary lifestyles. Genuine studies, not funded by PhRMA, have shown that physical exercise outperforms "anti-depressant" pills every time, and it costs nothing. I was sad to read about the suicide of Aaron Swartz, who had been complaining of depression. I don't know what pills he may have been prescribed, but some SSRIs double the risk of suicide, while a daily walk or swim might have saved him.

[UPDATED: On January 17, The Los Angeles Times quoted Aaron's father: "He had never been diagnosed as having depression; he was never on medication for having depression.... So the notion, the narrative that people are going to say -- is that he’s somebody who just has depression -- is just wrong. You’d be depressed too if you were under a 13-count federal indictment and you go see your mother, who’s in a coma." Sometimes parents don't always know the complete medical information of their kids, for example Target reportedly upset a father who didn't know his daughter was pregnant, but in fairness I wanted to update this post.]

MMR   befriend   ignore   Sat, 12 Jan 2013, 12:36pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 12

Lack of exercise, bad diet. Might well be that depression is caused, among other things, by a lack of omega 3 fatty acids in the brain. DHA is critical to proper myelination of neurons. Contrary to popular belief, depression is not caused by a prozac deficiency.

mell   befriend   ignore   Sat, 12 Jan 2013, 12:43pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 13

MMR says

Lack of exercise, bad diet. Might well be that depression is caused, among other things, by a lack of omega 3 fatty acids in the brain. DHA is critical to proper myelination of neurons. Contrary to popular belief, depression is not caused by a prozac deficiency.

B12 is also very important for myelination, and methylcobalamin is the preferred version for supplementation for most (most contain the vastly inferior cyanocobalamin).

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 4:51am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 14

Goran_K says

The Pharm lobby is even more dangerous than the gun lobby IMO.

Mood altering drugs scare me much more than AK-47s.

This is just alarmist bullshit. Tell us exactly which "mood altering drug" is making people "dangerous".

Alternatives are offered: group therapy and classes on dealing with depression. They don't always work. Sometimes depression has a "cause"; sometimes it doesn't. It can be a debilitating illness. Countless lives have been saved with medication. Major depression is not just feeling "down" or "having the blues". If it hasn't happened to you then you can't possibly understand how serious it is. The fact is, we don't know what causes depression; we only know it exists. To say that nobody should use medication if it can help is just ridiculous.

SSRIs increase the level of serotonin in the brain. It's not a cure, and nobody has ever said it was. Just as aspirin doesn't cure a headache, but it relieves suffering. SSRIs have side effects. It's not an exact science. But for someone who can't even get out of bed because of depression, it's worth the trade-off. By the way, Prozac is the worst one. They have come out with much better drugs with fewer side effects since Prozac.

Thedaytoday   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 5:06am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike (3)     Comment 15

CaptainShuddup says

Now how I can tell this is bullshit?

That's because your nose is too close to your asshole.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 5:55am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 16

I guess it's a lot easier for some people to believe there's a massive government conspiracy than to believe that mental illness exists.

mell   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 6:02am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike (1)     Comment 17

Homeboy says

This is just alarmist bullshit. Tell us exactly which "mood altering drug" is making people "dangerous".

If you took the time to read the (possible) side-effects section of all mood-altering drugs on the market and count how many have the word 'suicidal' (which can go hand in hand with homicidal) in it, then you would know how dangerous they are.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 6:04am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 18

Homeboy says

I guess it's a lot easier for some people to believe there's a massive government conspiracy than to believe that mental illness exists.

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you."

You might want to read about what's been happening in Florida, with juvies forced onto Rx drugs that can leave them with life-long side effects, for the enrichment of PhRMA and Medicaid prescribers. And you might want to read about the deal between PhRMA and the White House (which the White House initially denied but then admitted) to support Obamacare. And count the ads on the evening news, to see whom it's brought to you by (mostly PhRMA). It isn't about health or illness, it's about money and power.

Or just stick with your Stockholm Syndrome and selective Credulous Personality Disorder, praising the purveyors of disproved treatments and demanding that they must be paid even more ransom. It's only life, after all.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 6:24am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 19

mell says

If you took the time to read the (possible) side-effects section of all mood-altering drugs on the market and count how many have the word 'suicidal' (which can go hand in hand with homicidal) in it, then you would know how dangerous they are.

I already know that Prozac has been associated with occasional risk of suicidal thoughts. But there are far more people who without a doubt would have killed themselves if they hadn't had medication. SSRIs have saved many, many more lives than they have taken. You need to educate yourself. You are reacting out of ignorance and fear.

Some people are allergic to penicillin. Should we stop allowing anyone to use penicillin?

curious2   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 6:25am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 20

Homeboy says

But there are far more people who without a doubt would have killed themselves if they hadn't had medication.

The statistics are exactly opposite. You attempt to refute them with a counterfactual narrative, "without a doubt," which is fundamentalism not science. To the extent some people improve while on pills, it isn't because of the pills; nearly the same number improve on placebo, and without side effects. Even the manufacturers' own paid "studies" admit only 10% "benefit" compared to placebo, and they are notorious for cherry-picking their studies including adjusting the timing so that the "study" ends when the coin-toss is mostly heads. In contrast, a daily walk or swim does produce statistically significant improvement, with only positive side effects. But your comments illustrate the essence of Obamacare: a policy demanded by the mentally ill and delusional, supplied by lobbyists who gain money and power keeping them that way.

mell   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 6:34am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 21

Homeboy says

SSRIs have saved many, many more lives than they have taken.

Why don't you educate yourself and pull up the suicide rates in the US between 1950 and 2005 (or any other period) and you can't see any trend at all. I think the best claim anybody can make is that they saved as many as they have taken, which does not bode well as an argument to take any drug. Here is another link actually partially defending SSRIs, but also coming to the conclusion that they are at best neutral.

http://neuroskeptic.blogspot.com/2010/05/ssris-and-suicide.html

So I think it should be ok to be skeptical of them. Penicillin has a clear effect on the pathogens it targets and there is also a clear allergy profile. None of this is true for SSRIs.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 6:44am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 22

mell says

Penicillin has a clear effect on the pathogens it targets and there is also a clear allergy profile. None of this is true for SSRIs.

Exactly. A basic problem is PhRMA gets drugs approved based on minimally "significant" effect, which they can simulate by manipulating the "studies". Really effective drugs like aspirin and penicillin have obvious effects, greater than 50% difference compared to placebo. If you insist on at least a 50% difference between the treatment group and the placebo group, it's harder to fake, but the law doesn't require that, because it would cut into revenues and spending. Above 50%, you can say something probably works as described; below 50%, it is more accurate to say that it probably won't help. Nevertheless, Obamacare requires you to pay for it either way, which is the point: paying politicians to require people to buy stuff that a rational person would not buy, at a price that a rational person would not pay.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 1:11pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 23

mell says

Why don't you educate yourself and pull up the suicide rates in the US between 1950 and 2005 (or any other period) and you can't see any trend at all.

This is absurd on its face. You are claiming a correlation between suicide rates in the 1950s and SSRIs, which weren't developed until the 1970s. Do you even listen to yourself? LOL.

mell says

I think the best claim anybody can make is that they saved as many as they have taken, which does not bode well as an argument to take any drug.

Totally made up. You have absolutely no evidence to support that statement.

mell says

Penicillin has a clear effect on the pathogens it targets and there is also a clear allergy profile. None of this is true for SSRIs.

Studies of SSRIs have shown a clear effect for people with major depression. If you want to ignore reality and believe in your conspiracy theories, go right ahead. I will stick with the truth.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 1:13pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 24

mell says

count how many have the word 'suicidal' (which can go hand in hand with homicidal)

No it doesn't. Making stuff up again, I see.

thomaswong.1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 1:19pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 25

The Professor says

Drugs, for the most part relieve symptoms. The underlying cause of much depression (in my opinion) is the helplessness many feel about their day to day situations.

similar to other depressants used in USSR..
Vodka .. slipping and falling all day long.

mell   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 1:26pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 26

Homeboy says

This is absurd on its face. You are claiming a correlation between suicide rates in the 1950s and SSRIs, which weren't developed until the 1970s. Do you even listen to yourself? LOL.

That shows that whatever was tried during that period didn't have much effect. You don't have to start at 1950, you can start at 1980 if you want. That was a weak attempt to ridicule. Medicine is one area where you cannot lecture me - although I am always looking to broaden my knowledge if you can present any meaningful data, so far you haven't.

mell   befriend   ignore   Sun, 27 Jan 2013, 1:35pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 27

Homeboy says

mell says

count how many have the word 'suicidal' (which can go hand in hand with homicidal)

No it doesn't. Making stuff up again, I see.

Here's a good summary on the topic, you don't have to accept it but at least it may get you thinking:
http://www.encognitive.com/node/886

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 2:55am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 28

mell says

That shows that whatever was tried during that period didn't have much effect. You don't have to start at 1950, you can start at 1980 if you want. That was a weak attempt to ridicule. Medicine is one area where you cannot lecture me - although I am always looking to broaden my knowledge if you can present any meaningful data, so far you haven't.

I didn't start at 1950, YOU did. Now your argument is what - that ALL medications tried between 1950 and 1980 cause suicides? Certainly you have heard the maxim that correlation does not imply causation.

It would be useless to lecture you on medicine. You don't even understand the rudiments of science or even simple logic, let alone medicine.

Homeboy   befriend   ignore   Mon, 28 Jan 2013, 3:08am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 29

mell says

Here's a good summary on the topic, you don't have to accept it but at least it may get you thinking:

http://www.encognitive.com/node/886

I'm always thinking. The difference is I don't STOP thinking when I read some alarmist nonsense on the internet. Obviously, you do. See, this is the problem when you get all your information from bogus websites.

Where to begin...? First of all, the warnings on medications are things that could POSSIBLY happen. They are things that have happened in a very tiny number of people in test cases. If bad side effects were