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Feces transplant may help relieve severe diarrhea


By zzyzzx   Follow   Thu, 17 Jan 2013, 9:07am   1,686 views   37 comments
In Baltimore MD 21230   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/nm/feces-transplant-may-help-relieve-severe-diarrhea

A small new study has concluded that inserting fecal material from a healthy person into the gut of someone with severe diarrhea may cure their problem more effectively than antibiotics.

One transplant of fecal material from a volunteer - with its mix of healthy bacteria - resolved severe diarrhea in 13 out of 16 volunteers. Standard treatment with an antibiotic, in comparison, worked in four of 13 patients.

"I've done 90 of these now in the last four and a half years. In patient after patient who has failed multiple courses of antibiotic, if you give them a dose of stool, they get better," she told Reuters Health.

Keller and his colleagues compared three treatments in a small trial.

Thirteen volunteers with C. diff received a standard antibiotic, vancomycin, four times a day for 14 days. After 10 weeks, four were free of bacteria-related diarrhea.

Another 13 patients had the same drug therapy after drinking a solution to clean out the bowel, a process known as bowel lavage that is similar to what people go through if they are getting a colonoscopy. That worked in three cases.

The remaining 16 volunteers had a brief treatment with vancomycin, combined with bowel lavage, followed by the infusion of 500 milliliters of diluted donor feces through a tube that went into the nose, down the throat, past the stomach and into the small intestine.

In the three cases where that treatment failed, the doctors re-treated patients with fecal material from a different donor. That worked in all but one case.

Among the volunteers in the non-transplant groups who had a relapse of C. diff, 18 were later given a fecal transplant. It cured 15 of them, although four of the 15 needed two treatments.

When side effects were tallied in the transplant group, 94 percent of patients reported diarrhea, 31 percent had cramping and 19 percent had belching, but all of those symptoms disappeared within three hours. Nineteen percent ultimately reported constipation after treatment.

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  1. CaptainShuddup


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    1   9:33am Thu 17 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    There was a story in the news about a procedure done last year sometime involved this.

  2. Philistine


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    2   9:33am Thu 17 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Zzyzzx, you have to stop. We need more feral cat memes.

  3. mell


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    3   9:52am Thu 17 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    This is actually an important milestone. Fecal transplants will become standard soon to treat all kinds of chronic conditions where the gut may be involved.

  4. leo707


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    4   10:00am Thu 17 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike  

    Yep, this procedure has been around for quite a few years. It is a perfect example of a procedure that is cheaper and more effective than the drugs used to treat the same problems. However, it is little known because there is not much money to be made in selling poop-transplants and a lot of money to be lost in pharmaceutical sales.

  5. zzyzzx


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    5   6:51pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    leo707 says

    However, it is little known because there is not much money to be made in selling poop-transplants and a lot of money to be lost in pharmaceutical sales.

    Plus this poop transplant procedure has DIY potential.

  6. Quigley


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    6   6:54pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    This "movement" (pun intended) has been gaining steam for years. Antibiotics have screwed up so many people who now suffer from IBS, constipation, and diarrhea that a better treatment was becoming obvious. If you have the wrong bacteria in your gut, get the right sort from your friend and start living better. It's kind of a "duh" thing that the medical mafia is no longer able to fully suppress.

  7. curious2


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    7   6:57pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Other animals learned this on their own, long ago, with no medical degrees at all:

    Dogs and monkeys do the same. The dog owners are shocked, but the dogs are following their noses to find what they need. It's a balance of risks - e.g. there might be parasites - but it doesn't cost anything so there's been no $ for studies.

  8. Call it Crazy


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    8   7:15pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    zzyzzx says

    Plus this poop transplant procedure has DIY potential.

    I don't think I'll be volunteering for that clinical trial any time soon...

  9. curious2


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    9   7:31pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Call it Crazy says

    I don't think I'll be volunteering for that clinical trial any time soon

    You'd be surprised how many drugs and other products are derived from urine and other waste. Geishas cover their faces in guano, and Japanese men seem to find it very attractive. It's a wild world.

    Anyway as the article noted, a clinical trial would probably involve a capsule, no taste. Current practice is to mix with water and use a tube to deliver directly to the intestine.

  10. Zlxr


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    10   8:44pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Haven't they heard of probiotics? Or is it they like the idea of a more expensive shitty procedure?

  11. Zlxr


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    11   9:33pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Actually lack of probiotics is the cause of some of the most expensive medical cases ever.

    I know of one case that went from just Crohn's disease to a major yeast infection - person was put on IV drip meds for candidiasis and ended up with IV feeding. I remember that the cost of the IV feeding (which had to be specially prepared by the pharmacist) cost so much that you could hire a couple pharmacists full time just for yourself. (It was over $20,000 per month and that was more than 20 years ago).

    Never once did I ever see anything in a report or on a bill about restoring the gut flora.

    And there is always someone on a transplant list because of too much antibiotics. Usually they give antibiotics until they discover fungal balls in the urine or something like - and the next thing is the anti fungal medicine (which can kill you) and then comes liver or kidney failure.

  12. curious2


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    12   9:43pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Zlxr says

    Haven't they heard of probiotics?

    Elephants, dogs, and monkeys all had to evolve before retailers began selling probiotics, so they seek out natural sources. Probiotics are beginning to get some clinical research, including proven benefits:

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/fhg/updates/update0905c.shtml

    Probiotics are cheap so there isn't a big research budget but there should be. The current system puts research $ into things that can be more lucrative, not cheap things. BTW, there's nothing magic about probiotics - the active ingredient is simply live bacteria, which is what the elephant was reaching for, though the probiotics might not contain all the species needed.

  13. Zlxr


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    13   9:47pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    And generally once you hit the $1,000,000 mark (if you have decent insurance) the insurance company cuts you off.

  14. Zlxr


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    14   9:51pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Regarding dogs, they aren't picky.

    I witnessed a dog eat some dog shit that had a whole lot of worms standing up in the air. It was so gross.

  15. Zlxr


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    15   10:07pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bye the way - that was on my way to school in 2nd grade. Obviously it made a lasting impression.

  16. curious2


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    16   10:12pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Zlxr says

    worms

    Helminthic therapy? We look at dogs and assume that much of their behavior must be terribly unhealthy, but somehow they rarely stay sick for more than a day. They rely on evolution, not advertising. Of course they benefit enormously from vaccines and other new technology, but most of their ancestors had to find a way to survive without all that stuff.

  17. CaptainShuddup


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    17   6:45am Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (4)   Dislike (3)  

    Zlxr says

    I witnessed a dog eat some dog shit that had a whole lot of worms standing up in the air. It was so gross.

    I watched my GF's Yorkie during hurricane Andrew. When the storm came over... well this isn't that story. But while I had the dog, I heard him smacking his lips in a dinky sounding "smack-clack-smack" and I was like "Hey what are you eating?" I stuck my finger in his mouth(because my GF said he was pronged to swallowing house hold items. ) and discovered it was his own crap.

    Now every time I hear that over compression on NPR where the people talking all have this lip smacking cracking when they talk, it reminds me of that stupid poop eating dog.

  18. SoftShell


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    18   6:56am Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (5)   Dislike (5)  

    Can we get 121212/ThedayToday to eat his own crap to see if it cures his terminal GASBAG syndrome??

  19. Thedaytoday


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    19   12:43pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (3)  

    SoftShell says

    Can we get 121212/ThedayToday to eat his own crap to see if it cures his terminal GASBAG syndrome??

    Softshell= RUKI/SHREK/SHRELGRINCH/XRPB11A/kingshit/ KennethCrass

    Wanker

    Your full of Crap!

  20. errc


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    20   1:15pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    May cure their problem more effective then antibiotics

    This stuck out like a sore thumb, of course, relatively speaking, as antibiotics wreak havoc on your gut flora. Was pleased to see fellow posters keen to the good information, bringing up probiotics. The bacteria in your guts is so much more important to ones health, then most all of us can imagine

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gut-flora-healthy-immune-system/

  21. Vaticanus


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    21   3:04pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    What a lod of crap.

    Actually this is old news. Usually they use a spouse as the stool donor. Bring your own blender.

  22. curious2


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    22   3:13pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Zlxr says

    have you heard about the new therapy of giving fat people whip worms so they can lose weight?

    Yes - yet another example of cheap solutions probably safer than Fen-Phen etc. The widespread expansion of obesity in recent decades is mostly due to sugar and subsidized corn (HFCS), but an additional factor may be that fewer people have worms. I would never recommend worms for an otherwise healthy person, but they are probably safer (and certainly cheaper) than stomach staples and many diet drugs.

    Intestinal worms are a bit like leeches: leeches should be avoided normally, but can be useful in some circumstances, e.g. after re-attachment surgery.

  23. errc


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    23   3:33pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I remember when I was young, my cousin got leukemia. Her mother is uber religious and they wanted to take as natural and as homeopathic a route to "cure" her as possible. There's a lot of flim flammery out there with the witch doctors and all, but relative to modern medicine and the crap that the government approves, allows, and licenses, I'm not sure how much worse off you'd be going the alt route for most conditions

    Anywhoo, this aunt came across some treatment for herself that killed off the worms in her own guts, and I remember my mom saying that she pooped out many pounds of worms and some were huge. I don't even know what that means or why I decided to post it, but the memory was activated in my brain because this aunt has been constantly ill over the years since.

    I still feel like you're better off with absolutely zero "healthcare" so long as its the american brand, including the usfedgov nutritional reccomendations, as opposed to having access to more of this dangerous bullshit. Makes me sick

  24. curious2


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    24   3:53pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    errc says

    this aunt has been constantly ill over the years since.

    She might be getting re-infested with worms, which can cause a wide variety of symptoms. She might want to try some food-grade DE, or an anti-helmintic. Also the paleo diet can kill or stun worms - which isn't an endorsement btw, if your diet has become so limited that even worms can't live on it. A lot of alt commenters rave about silica as a dietary supplement; it's the primary component of DE, so I suspect they may have been previously suffering from worms. Possibly the only benefit of routine colonoscopies is, doctors are noticing that otherwise healthy people often have worms. Usually there are no symptoms until the infestation becomes large, but if your aunt had a major infestation before, then she might have that again. Maybe diet - people eat all sorts of things, some literally eat dirt, others eat vegetables without washing the soil off. Whatever caused her to get infested the first time, if she kept doing that, she might be infested again.

    Or conceivably it could be the opposite, the worms may have been protecting her from something worse in her diet. Or it might be a coincidence. I don't know, certainly not medical advice, but DE is cheap and it de-worms the digestive tract as many people including farmers can attest.

  25. Zlxr


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    25   5:42pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Wow - maybe she didn't continue long enough to get the eggs and the ones that wandered out of her gut.

    Something someone could try either with people or cultures regarding funguses would be as follows.

    Find a bunch of guys with athletes foot that also have really stinky feet.

    Have some try the current athletes foot and stinky foot medications and have the rest try the following stuff:

    1. Try soaking feet in a basin of hot water with Apple Cider Vinegar, 20 Mule Team Borax and Hydrogen Peroxide. It will cure stinky feet - not sure how good or how fast it works on athletes foot.

    2. Try soaking in salt and baking soda mixture (twice as much baking soda as salt).

    3. Try putting a probiotic with the right bacteria for athletes foot on it.

    4. Try Cream of Tartar. It's a baking product - that is actually a byproduct of the wine making industry. I guess the wine won't ferment if this is in it.

    I don't see how it could hurt anyone if it's topical or in a culture. Seems to me that even teenage boys (when they decide to become self conscious about such things) would think this is an interesting experiment.

    I'm not sure how to set up the correct double blind experiment - but at least it would be interesting and they could get a lot of laughs out of it.

  26. Zlxr


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    26   5:45pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Oh - also find a bunch of teenage boys who fart alot and have them all try probiotics and find out which ones work the best.

    They'll be happy and so will everyone else.

  27. leo707


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    27   7:05pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Zlxr says

    Then again - have you heard about the new therapy of giving fat people whip worms so they can lose weight?

    Or using hook worms as a treatment for asthma, allergies, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy

  28. marcus


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    28   7:29pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    It makes sense.

    I saw this on reddit about a month ago.

    Maybe easier to just take your probiotics regularly and keep healthy intestinal flora.

    As someone who has had some intestinal issues, especially a few decades ago, it has been fascinating to watch what was accepted in the alternative health care community decades ago, pick up steam (FINALLY) in the established medical world.

    That is, that probiotics really work.

    There is a huge population of good bacteria in your intestines, and if it's out of whack, it can lead to all kinds of problems.

    For those of us with chronic problems, understanding the value of probiotics has been a godsend. I have taken them regularly for decades. Yogurt is great too, but is primarily only acidophilus. The bifuda strains are the ones for your colon.

  29. curious2


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    29   8:16pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    For those of us with chronic problems...

    Wow it's tempting to list yours, but I shall refrain.

    Zlxr says

    Something someone could try....

    You should try suggesting your experiments to a high school science teacher, they might be developed into very interesting additions to the curriculum. A related experiment regarding anti-fungal products would compare Dollar Store clotrimazole to brand name products costing 10x more, and prescription products costing many times more than that. Everybody gets yeast infections, and clotrimazole is equally effective regardless of cost. It's silly to wait for an Rx and spend hundreds of dollars (the Obamacare model) when $1 will solve the problem faster and more easily. Of course, much depends on preventing teenagers from figuring that out, or at least postponing it as long as possible; they must be lured by advertising and hooked by their own government into overpaying for the most expensive products, in order to maximize revenue for the patronage networks of their dear leaders. That's the bottom line really: these cheap things might literally be crap, but the expensive stuff is often worse than that.

  30. Zlxr


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    30   9:04pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I got my grandson to take probiotics when he was about 13 or 14.

    As you know - boys/men have a lifelong love affair with farts - but not at school in front of girls. After he found out it worked he started asking me for them. But you definitely need the probiotics that have lots more than just lacto bacillus. The kind I use comes individually wrapped and doesn't require refrigeration. It would also help if you learn to make your own Sauerkraut and stuff like that. Check out the book "Wild Fermentation".

    You need to take enzymes and check to see if you actually have enough stomach acid if you have major gut problems - but when it comes to taking stomach acid the only one I liked was HCL + 2. I haven't been taking it for awhile, though, since I seem to be much better now. And be really careful with what you eat.

    A couple good colonics can do wonders as well. And even during colonoscopies the doctors can miss parasites because they hide between the placque and the colon lining.

    Curious2 is right about the DE (Diatomaceous Earth - food grade). Just mix it with juice or water. It's not gross. You can also use Clarkia Extra Strong. Just know that according to most of what I have read that parasites are most active at a full moon so the best time to treat is definitely the 3 days before and after the full moon. But many treatments can continue much longer. I also understand that the DE can clean your colon out and help remove heavy metals but I'm not positive that it actually does.

    However, it's also true that if you start treating for parasites that they will start to move up and away from the gut region. At this point in time I am not aware of any treatments for outside of the gut - except for the Salt +Vitamin C regimen.

    Also - Curious2 - does DE work on Giardia? I don't think stool samples always show it and I know of someone who went to a parisitologist and the doctor took a scraping from the colon lining instead of a stool sample. All our water ways are polluted with it - but they hardly ever test people for it.

    Also - another reason to be aware of parasites - is because if they aren't in your gut and you take pharmaceutical meds and a ton of them die and your body can't handle that much dead stuff - you could die. At least that's the gist of what I got when I was reading a veterinarian article. So the best remedy is to kill them slowly or basically keep the load down by using the safest means like DE which you can take daily and don't allow them to grow to the point where it's lethal in the first place.

    And for those of you who think you have never ever eaten a parasite. If you have ever eaten a strawberry or a raw mushroom you have. They're on the list of foods for cancer patients to avoid for that very reason.

    Also, unfortunately, even if you are seriously ill - doctors rarely check for parasites and/or the labs don't recognize parasite eggs. I've read of cases where a patient is deathly ill and the doctors finally decide to check their sputum for parasites (and it came back positive) but that was 2 weeks before the patient died.

    How come they can't understand that we are more likely to get parasites than all other things combined and it's the last thing they check for?

  31. Zlxr


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    31   9:09pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    The original treatment for women's yeast infections was to douche with yogurt.

    If that worked before meds were invented - then it should still work - that or a good lacto bacillus probiotic.

  32. Zlxr


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    32   9:18pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I meant acidophilus.

  33. curious2


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    33   9:52pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Zlxr says

    Curious2 - does DE work on Giardia?

    I doubt it. The usual mechanism of action is, the spiky diatoms poke lethal holes in insect exoskeletons and the thin tissues of worms. It can also work as a desiccant in some environments that aren't too wet, but mammal intestines are much too wet for that. Gardia protozoans are so tiny that they would probably not be affected, unless metabolized silica might affect them. I haven't seen any studies and can't advise specifically, but if I had to bet I'd say no.

    Zlxr says

    How come [doctors] can't understand that we are more likely to get parasites than all other things combined and it's the last thing they check for?

    Easy question. Doctors are trained by a revenue maximizing system to check for the most expensive and urgent things first. The results are often ambiguous, so they proceed based on the availability heuristic, i.e. they "recognize" the most easily recalled memory and they often don't have time to work through the many differential diagnoses. They "recognize" what they have seen before, usually what they have been taught, whether it's there or not. Because they start with the most expensive and most urgent, they tend not to work their way down to differential diagnoses that can be solved cheaply. PhRMA has co-opted doctors into salesmen. You wouldn't expect a Realtor(tm) to tell you that you would be better off with a cheaper house or apartment; they are trained to sell you the product with the highest commission - especially when the cost can be shifted onto others via insurance and subsidies. Patients are also to blame: they see a pill advertised on TV, and then lie to their doctor to get a prescription; if you go into a Ford dealership asking for a Ford, the "successful" salesman will oblige without arguing, even if you might have been better off with a Buick or a bicycle.

  34. justme


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    34   10:48pm Thu 24 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Zlxr says

    I meant acidophilus.

    You can fix the typo by editing the post, just friendly advice.

  35. Zlxr


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    35   3:42am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Info regarding yeast infections and what the meds do to your body.
    It still bears testing and also testing to see which kinds of yeast.
    I think this is the one about Cream of Tartar killing yeast infections.

    http://www.totalityofbeing.com/FramelessPages/Articles/YeastInfections.htm

    Potential remedies for yeast infections - but they bear testing

    http://www.healthcareveda.com/post/Home-Remedies-For-A-Vaginal-Yeast-Infection.aspx

    Potential remedies using 20 Mule Team Borax

    Works on athletes foot, might help with curing baldness, etc. etc.

    http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/borax.html#AF

    http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/borax.html#BORAXBACKGROUND

  36. Zlxr


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    36   3:43am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Info regarding using garlic for a cure - this is one of my favorite OTC antibiotics

    Should test the liquid Allimed and see how well it does on athletes foot

    http://www.allimax.us/products.php

    MMS - another cure for anaerobic bacteria - the cheapest “antibiotic” - actually all it does I think is oxidize anaerobic bacteria - read Jim Humble’s story - it’s actually very interesting. It actually smells like bleach when it is activated and works faster than bleach as well. It can purify dirty water - so you should have it around. It’s what I use to keep from getting sick during the flu season.

    http://jimhumble.org/18-skin-care.html

    http://jimhumble.org/basic-science-of-mms-chlorine-dioxide.html

  37. zzyzzx


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    37   6:22am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    leo707 says

    Zlxr says

    Then again - have you heard about the new therapy of giving fat people whip worms so they can lose weight?

    Or using hook worms as a treatment for asthma, allergies, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy

    Reminds me of a an episode of 1000 Ways to Die.

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