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Innocent man imprisoned for 20 months. Guns do nothing to help him.


By Dan8267   Follow   Sun, 20 Jan 2013, 10:21am PST   1,868 views   47 comments   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (2)  

After 20 months in jail, cleric returns with relief, not bitterness, over flimsy terrorism charges

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-01-19/news/fl-margate-mosque-mayocol-b012013-20130119_1_izhar-khan-jamaat-al-mumineen-mosque-cleric-returns

Now, how exactly would being well-armed with assault rifles and high-capacity magazines have helped Izhar Khan? He'd had been killed by the police and gone down in history as a terrorist if he had guns.

Where are all the militias protecting innocent American citizens like Izhar Khan and his elderly, handicapped father from the tyrants in our government? Why aren't the create protectors of freedom trying to rescue Izhar's father, another innocent man? If guns mean freedom, then prove it.

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thomaswong.1986   befriend   ignore   Sun, 20 Jan 2013, 3:55pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (3)     Comment 8

Vicente says

Thanks for coming out.

certainly would include foreign nationalists..
since the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to non- US citizens.

lostand confused   befriend   ignore   Sun, 20 Jan 2013, 9:29pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 9

thomaswong.1986 says

Vicente says



Thanks for coming out.


certainly would include foreign nationalists..
since the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to non- US citizens.

Maybe I misunderstand, but are you saying any non-white is a not a US citizen?

errc   befriend   ignore   Sun, 20 Jan 2013, 11:07pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (5)   Dislike     Comment 10

Kevin says

I think you misunderstand: The pro-gun crowd isn't in favor of non-white people having guns.

There's some gun control people could get behind

The same fools insist that the police and military be armed to the hilt. They are, after all, here to protect us dontchaknow!

I don't trust any nitwit whose first cry for gon control isn't disarming the peace officers. Nothing I fear more in this world than this out of control police state, and the people that ask for more of it

bob2356   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 1:18am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 11

Vicente says

As a former NRA member, I am appalled by their history now that I read about it.

Back in 1968, they lobbied FOR the Gun Control Act.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/?single_page=true

In 1968 the NRA was funded and populated by people who considered shooting a sport, not gun manufacturers and self defence fanatics.

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 2:22am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (2)     Comment 12

Khaaaaaannnnn!!!!!

Vicente says

Dan's point stands. The "militia" is very selective, only whites are due any outrage.

So you're saying that Black Panthers are only a figment of our imagination?

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 3:18am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 13

Vicente says

Dan's point stands. The "militia" is very selective, only whites are due any outrage.

I'm not sure they even get outraged when whites are victimized by the government. There are plenty of white victims here that got no sympathy, nonetheless action, from the militia people. Christ, what would it take for these militias that allegedly are protecting our liberties to actually act?

FunTime   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 6:57am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 14

Dan8267 says

what would it take for these militias that allegedly are protecting our liberties to actually act?

I suspect it would take an event that unfolds very, very slowly. That would allow them to keep up.

Kevin   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 10:34am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 15

Dan8267 says

Vicente says

Dan's point stands. The "militia" is very selective, only whites are due any outrage.

I'm not sure they even get outraged when whites are victimized by the government. There are plenty of white victims here that got no sympathy, nonetheless action, from the militia people. Christ, what would it take for these militias that allegedly are protecting our liberties to actually act?

Timmy McVeigh largely destroyed the american militia movement. In another 10 years, when conservatives try to re-frame him as a hero, the movement will be renewed.

thomaswong.1986   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:47am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (3)     Comment 16

lostand confused says

Maybe I misunderstand, but are you saying any non-white is a not a US citizen?

since when does the 2nd Amendment or any part of the Constitution apply to
non-US citizens, who are subjects/agents of a foreign government ?

they should not be allowed have arms within the US borders... they have no right to do so.

where do I say white or non-white ?

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:55am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 17

thomaswong.1986 says

since when does the 2nd Amendment or any part of the Constitution apply to

non-US citizens, who are subjects/agents of a foreign government ?

Izhar Khan, the man falsely imprisoned for 20 months, is a U.S. citizen.

HEY YOU   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 1:01pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 18

FunTime says

Dan8267 says

what would it take for these militias that allegedly are protecting our liberties to actually act?

I suspect it would take an event that unfolds very, very slowly. That would allow them to keep up.

Good one -"...very, very slowly." ROFLMAO

thomaswong.1986   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 1:24pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 19

Dan8267 says

Izhar Khan, the man falsely imprisoned for 20 months, is a U.S. citizen.

dont send money to Pakistan and find it going to some terrorist organization.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 1:56pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 20

Looks like the justice system works sometimes.

Kevin   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 2:56pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 21

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

Izhar Khan, the man falsely imprisoned for 20 months, is a U.S. citizen.

dont send money to Pakistan and find it going to some terrorist organization.

You mean "don't be a Muslim", since that's the only thing this guy was guilty of.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 3:02pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 22

Kevin says

You mean "don't be a Muslim",

That's good advice for anyone.

thomaswong.1986   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 3:44pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 23

Kevin says

You mean "don't be a Muslim", since that's the only thing this guy was guilty of.

Suggest you read the article, clearly dont be connected in any way to Terrorist networks.

But It is unlikely a Irish Catholic would be involved in such matters.

Kevin   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 4:12pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 24

thomaswong.1986 says

Kevin says

You mean "don't be a Muslim", since that's the only thing this guy was guilty of.

Suggest you read the article, clearly dont be connected in any way to Terrorist networks.

But It is unlikely a Irish Catholic would be involved in such matters.

I seriously can't tell if thus is supposed to be sarcasm,

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:16pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 25

thomaswong.1986 says

Dan8267 says

Izhar Khan, the man falsely imprisoned for 20 months, is a U.S. citizen.

dont send money to Pakistan and find it going to some terrorist organization.

1. Money is speech according to the Supreme Court and therefore sending money to a political organization, even one hated by our government, is free speech. Perhaps free speech only exists for corporations today.

2. There is no evidence that Izhar Khan sent money to the Taliban. That is why all charges were dropped.

3. This means that a man spent almost two years in prison without trial on mere "suspicion" of doing something that should not even be illegal.

4. By the definition in the USA Patriot Act, every one of our country's founding fathers was a terrorist, especially George Washington. Should we arrest anyone who donates money to a Washington museum? Terrorism is a marketing term, not an objective group. Should we arrest anyone who gives money to a Baptist Church? They certainly are terrorist from my perspective.

5. The government has paid no price, made no compensation, offered no apology for imprisoning a person for almost two years without ever going to trial. If you don't think this is wrong, you are not a real American. This goes against every principle upon which our country was founded.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:16pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 26

Kevin says

thomaswong.1986 says

Kevin says

You mean "don't be a Muslim", since that's the only thing this guy was guilty of.

Suggest you read the article, clearly dont be connected in any way to Terrorist networks.

But It is unlikely a Irish Catholic would be involved in such matters.

I seriously can't tell if thus is supposed to be sarcasm,

Never confuse stupidity with sarcasm.

dodgerfanjohn   befriend   ignore   Mon, 21 Jan 2013, 11:53pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 27

Dan, how do you know all that?

The article wasn't clear or specific on any of those things. Furthermore, the article didn't at all explain the prosecutions actions.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Tue, 22 Jan 2013, 11:42am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 28

dodgerfanjohn says

Dan, how do you know all that?

The article wasn't clear or specific on any of those things. Furthermore, the article didn't at all explain the prosecutions actions.

There are many articles on the Internet going into various details of the case as well as coverage by news outlets like RT News and NPR.

Do you have any specific questions?

FortWayne   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 12:49am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 29

A rifle didn't help that man, don't know if he even had one or simply did not wish to use it. But doesn't this story show you that government can and will use it's force if able to do it's bidding? Not the first time government used police or military force on it's civilians under pretense of it being for common good. Hitler killed a lot of people for common good when he could, and our government will do the same given the opportunity.

I think if we lose our guns the way Diana Nazi Feinstein wants us to. It will be only a matter of time before government starts rounding people up or closing down their businesses who refuse to pay government racket bribes...

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 1:45am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 30

IDDQD says

Now, how exactly would being well-armed with assault rifles and high-capacity magazines have helped Izhar Khan?

It would have rallied all the right wing nutters to round up all the muslims and string them up from trees because it would have proved all muslims are terrorists.

Kevin   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 1:56am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 31

FortWayne says

I think if we lose our guns the way Diana Nazi Feinstein wants us to. It will be only a matter of time before government starts rounding people up or closing down their businesses who refuse to pay government racket bribes...

That damn Jewish Nazi wants to take your guns!

Might as well give up and kill yourself now. Please don't kill anybody else while you're at it.

FortWayne   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:02am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 32

Kevin says

That damn Jewish Nazi wants to take your guns!

Oh come on Kevin, I am not saying she belongs to a Nazi party, she just acts as totalitarian as Nazi's did.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:08am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 33

FortWayne says

Oh come on Kevin, I am not saying she belongs to a Nazi party, she just acts as totalitarian as Nazi's did.

Ok Ronnie, be a good boy and take your calm me down meds now. here's your binky, that's a good boy, mommy loves you. Shh, it's alright, mommy will make the Nazi's go away.

Kevin   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:08am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 34

No. Not even remotely close.

Where are the labor camps? Where is the suppression of basic human Rights? Where is the systematic discrimination against anyone not belonging to a certain group?

Gin control doesn't make her a Nazi. It makes her dutch.

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:22am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 35

FortWayne says

Kevin says

That damn Jewish Nazi wants to take your guns!

Oh come on Kevin, I am not saying she belongs to a Nazi party, she just acts as totalitarian as Nazi's did.

Feinstein as totalitarian as Nazi's? You are joking right? Either that or woefully ignorant on the degree of Nazi totalitarianism.

FortWayne   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:34am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 36

leo707 says

Feinstein as totalitarian as Nazi's? You are joking right? Either that or woefully ignorant on the degree of Nazi totalitarianism.

Her hands are tied now by laws, but she speaks like those limitations to her control over our lives is a problem.

FortWayne   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:37am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 37

Kevin says

No. Not even remotely close.

Where are the labor camps? Where is the suppression of basic human Rights? Where is the systematic discrimination against anyone not belonging to a certain group?

Gin control doesn't make her a Nazi. It makes her dutch.

Her views of big government abridging rights makes her a totalitarist.

And you are talking about suppressing basic human rights? Our government has plenty of examples. We have Guantanamo, occasional incidents that Dan posts about people being falsely imprisoned without trial, how about Japanese Americans during WW2, or any other civil rights discriminations we do in any place we invade?

Our government is only tied down by the constitution and the public support for the rights. Once rights are taken away, I bet you'll see camps on American soil... kind of how prisoners do customer service calls now for $0.01/hour.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:39am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 38

IDDQD says

Moderate Infidel says

IDDQD says

Now, how exactly would being well-armed with assault rifles and high-capacity magazines have helped Izhar Khan?

It would have rallied all the right wing nutters to round up all the muslims and string them up from trees because it would have proved all muslims are terrorists.

Please quote correctly. The question you're answering was Dan's, not mine.

My bad, I meant to quote the original.

Moderate Infidel   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:41am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 39

FortWayne says

Her views of big government abridging rights makes her a totalitarist.

And you are talking about suppressing basic human rights? Our government has plenty of examples. We have Guantanamo, occasional incidents that Dan posts about people being falsely imprisoned without trial, how about Japanese Americans during WW2, or any other civil rights discriminations we do in any place we invade?

Our government is only tied down by the constitution and the public support for the rights. Once rights are taken away, I bet you'll see camps on American soil... kind of how prisoners do customer service calls now for $0.01/hour.

So Dianne Feinstein is the government now? I didn't realize she had absolute power.

FortWayne   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:44am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 40

Kevin says

Where is the suppression of basic human Rights?

Her trying to take guns away is an example, 2nd amendment is a basic human right. No totalitarian types ever came in telling people they'll take their rights away, they always did it under the guise of bettering society or often the children. And generally first thing they always do is disarm the civilians.

Nazi's came into power w/ their sets of rules that were very liberal... take guns away, socialize everything, redistribute everything, bring back pensions, abolish income from interest, etc... and look how that turned out.

Kevin   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:50am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 41

I give up. You're a moron with no sense of scale or perspective.

FortWayne   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 2:58am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 42

Kevin says

I give up. You're a moron with no sense of scale or perspective.

A personal insult, sort of expected and typical, a last refuge of a man who could not refute the argument, unable to accept being wrong.

I'd honestly expect that type of response from 121212, not you Kevin.

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 3:48am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 43

FortWayne says

Kevin says

I give up. You're a moron with no sense of scale or perspective.

A personal insult, sort of expected and typical, a last refuge of a man who could not refute the argument, unable to accept being wrong.

I'd honestly expect that type of response from 121212, not you Kevin.

Yeah, not the response I expect from Kevin.

Fort I don't think you are a moron, but I do think that your scale of perspective is a bit off here. You are talking about possibilities of what may happen. I agree that we seem to be heading down the road to a more totalitarian government, but I would certainly not put that on Feinstein or even the Democrats in general. There are some very totalitarian elements of the Republican party these days, but at this point I think it is very premature to call anyone a Nazi.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 4:13am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike (1)     Comment 44

IDDQD says

Dan8267 says

Now, how exactly would being well-armed with assault rifles and high-capacity magazines have helped Izhar Khan?

Have you heard about Bad Elk v. United States? Google it.

I agree with the conclusion of Bad Elk vs US that a person has the right to use deadly force against police officers engaging in an illegal arrest.

However, just because this court decision is on paper does not mean that it is in practice. The Supreme Court also ruled that any postal mail recipient can ban receiving any mail (read junk mail) from a mailer based on the recipient considering it lewd or obscene, totally at the discretion of the recipient. The Post Office is legally obligated to not deliver mail from that sender to that recepient thereafter. This was decided in Daniel Rowan vs United States Post Office. Nonetheless, try to get junk mailers banned from sending you mail. Local post offices won't follow the law and local courts won't consider cases against mailers who violate the law even repeatedly.

In reality, 99+% of the time a person resisting unlawful arrest will be beaten and/or killed by the police. 99+% of the time, someone shooting a cop making an illegal arrest will be murdered by the police then and there or later at a traffic stop set up for the purpose of killing him.

I would love to see more instances like the case in Bad Elk v. United States where innocent persons kill corrupt cops in self-defense and the state admits that the innocent persons did no wrong. But that's not reality. I'm glad it happened once, but most of the time the innocent person is either murdered or unjustly imprisoned.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 4:15am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 45

Heck, I would support a citizen using force, even deadly force, to defend himself against assault and battery committed during a legal and legitimate arrest. If the police get out of hand and assault a person, they are criminals no different than someone without a badge.

Kevin   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 12:02pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 46

leo707 says

Yeah, not the response I expect from Kevin.

Fort I don't think you are a moron, but I do think that your scale of perspective is a bit off here. You are talking about possibilities of what may happen. I agree that we seem to be heading down the road to a more totalitarian government, but I would certainly not put that on Feinstein or even the Democrats in general. There are some very totalitarian elements of the Republican party these days, but at this point I think it is very premature to call anyone a Nazi.

Anyone who equates even the worst of our currently elected officials with the evils of the Nazi regime isn't an intelligent person.

There's plenty of room to disagree with policies. There's plenty of room to have rational arguments. There's plenty of room to think that somebody is a bad person.

But Nazis? No. Not even close. That's why I say anybody using this line of reasoning is a moron: They don't want to actually debate an issue, they're just lashing out.

The gun control proposals on the table today are extremely mild compared to what we see in the rest of the developed world. If that makes our politicians "Nazis", then I guess the rest of the world is worse than the Nazi regime?

It's such an absurd argument that there's just no point in continuing to engage with people who use it.

I feel the same way every time some fucking idiot on this board compares taxes to slavery or a minor inconvenience to rape. Taking everything to the extreme is such a low form of debate that only an incredibly stupid person would use it as a serious form.

Dan8267 says

Heck, I would support a citizen using force, even deadly force, to defend himself against assault and battery committed during a legal and legitimate arrest. If the police get out of hand and assault a person, they are criminals no different than someone without a badge.

I live in seattle, so excessive force by police officers is something I've seen all too often, but this is really murky territory. Determining what qualifies as "excessive" can be in the eye of the beholder, and the officers definitely are entrusted with a different standard than the suspect (that's something essential to maintain rule of law).

I've heard it argued that the modern US police system is essentially derived from plantation / colony security: It's a model of containment rather than protection. Keep a certain group from harming another group. That's why cops don't really help protect people in bad neighborhoods in many cities, they protect wealthy people FROM the people in bad neighborhoods.

We definitely need a cultural shift to one where the role of a police officer is that primarily of problem solver and mediator.

I think adopting something like the British constable system might help: Have uniformed, minimally armed officers patrolling the streets and responding to situations where danger is minimal. Armed officers only get brought in on an as-needed basis.

Of course, we live so far apart here that this might not be practical. If calling for armed backup requires a 20 minute wait, a lot of things can go badly.

thomaswong.1986   befriend   ignore   Wed, 23 Jan 2013, 12:45pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 47

Kevin says

I've heard it argued that the modern US police system is essentially derived from plantation / colony security: It's a model of containment rather than protection.

like Irish cops maybe ... back as early 1840s

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