Quiet Bath & Kitchen Fans. Pumps. Cool Mechanical Stuff. Engineers Boutique (Advertisement)

Autism and Violence


By thunderlips11   Follow   Tue, 22 Jan 2013, 3:40pm   892 views   18 comments
Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)  

The Media and Interest Groups are, as usual, giving us the ultra-simplified, dumbed-down, pat-on-the-head version of a situation. In the aftermath of Sandy Hook, we get the usual Gun Control and the "Please don't be prejudiced against the Mentally Ill" stories. One thing has been to try and separate violence from Autism.

While it's true that Autism and Violence have not been linked; Autism and Aggression are linked. This aggression doesn't always take the form of physical threats, but pent up aggression can cause flipouts.

I noticed (and parsed) this interesting statement:

"Research suggests that aggression among people with autism spectrum conditions can occur 20 percent to 30 percent more often than compared to the general population," he said. "But, we are not talking about the kind of planned and intentional type of violence we have seen at Newtown.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/12/16/aspergers-autism-not-linked-to-violence-experts

Note the careful emplacement of "planned". A flipout is not a plan.

It is still up in the air that Lanza PLANNED the school shooting. Interestingly, his hard drive was ripped and smashed, rather than separated and then smashed (or demagnetized or immersed in liquid or whatever) - yet he took the time to put in earplugs, possibly a habit from going to the range with his mother.

Viewing Comments 1-18 of 18     Last »     See most liked comments

  1. Thedaytoday


    Follow
    Befriend
    46 threads
    530 comments

    1   3:45pm Tue 22 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Prescription drugs and gun violence have more in common with what you are suggesting.

  2. errc


    Follow
    Befriend (6)
    45 threads
    2,063 comments
    32 male

    2   4:12pm Tue 22 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Sexual repression and violence are more correlated than any connecting of the dots between mental illness or pharmaceuticals.

    The one thing all of these young men have in common that commit these ultra rare mass killings is, a lack of healthy sexual activity with a partner.

  3. Thedaytoday


    Follow
    Befriend
    46 threads
    530 comments

    3   4:13pm Tue 22 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    errc says

    a lack of healthy sexual activity with a partner.

    they have have no empathy!

    how can they have a relationship?

    its the scripts. first it's Ritalin then its Prozac

  4. thunderlips11


    Follow
    Befriend (13)
    114 threads
    3,411 comments
    Premium

    4   4:15pm Tue 22 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike  

    errc says

    The one thing all of these young men have in common that commit these ultra rare mass killings is, a lack of healthy sexual activity with a partner.

    Damn, man, you are right about that. Brevik, Cho, and Lanza were not engaged in any sexual activity, and never had a girlfriend or hookup AFAWK.

    Another reason to legalize prostitution, for fucks sake - not being sarcastic, either.
    There is a very strong link between complete absence of sexual activity and violence.

    I think there is a dark place about being unwanted/low status individual that causes these freakouts.

  5. Thedaytoday


    Follow
    Befriend
    46 threads
    530 comments

    5   4:17pm Tue 22 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    thunderlips11 says

    for fucks sake

    Your BRITISH is showing!

  6. BRE


    Follow
    Befriend
    7 comments

    6   8:50am Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Wow such ignorance is shocking.
    why not look up the facts and research the subject properly before commencing upon a opinionated "essay"? Oh I know, that would be too hard and it is far simpler to be ignorant. Such ignorance perpetuates the myths...

  7. thunderlips11


    Follow
    Befriend (13)
    114 threads
    3,411 comments
    Premium

    7   1:05pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    BRE says

    why not look up the facts and research the subject properly before commencing upon a opinionated "essay"? Oh I know, that would be too hard and it is far simpler to be ignorant. Such ignorance perpetuates the myths...

    What are you talking about? The Professor quoted in the article, who is an expert on Autism, says that Autistic people experience higher rates of aggression than non-autistics.

    Not a surprise, when you consider the basic symptom of autism to be a difficulty in reading or expressing emotions. Many people get frustrated when they can't express themselves, or can't understand the why behind people's actions.

    Aggressive behavior can and does lead to violence - just not necessarily planned and intentional violence. Just because somebody flips out and smacks you out of frustration doesn't make the violence any less violent because it wasn't "Planned" or "Aforethought".

    I think Lanza had his WoW account hacked or something, which caused the flipouts.

    When the Special interest group and "My Kid is still Teh Awesome" Parent Brigade tries to spin the research as to showing that Autistics are rarely violent at all, implying that they are less violent than the "neurotypical" - which is NOT what the research shows.

  8. BRE


    Follow
    Befriend
    7 comments

    8   9:55pm Wed 23 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    "What are you talking about? The Professor quoted in the article, who is an expert on Autism, says that Autistic people experience higher rates of aggression than non-autistics.

    Not a surprise, when you consider the basic symptom of autism to be a difficulty in reading or expressing emotions. Many people get frustrated when they can't express themselves, or can't understand the why behind people's actions."

    I am not doubting the professors findings, as I live with a child on the spectrum and work with children on the spectrum, I am we'll aware of their frustrations and behaviours that can be "seen" as aggressive or my favourite term "challenging behaviour" ( I always ask..really, is it challenging? For the child or challenging for you? )

    "Aggressive behavior can and does lead to violence - just not necessarily planned and intentional violence. Just because somebody flips out and smacks you out of frustration doesn't make the violence any less violent because it wasn't "Planned" or "Aforethought".

    The above statement is why I commented about being ignorant. You assume that all aggressive behaviour leads to violence and I promise you in my years raising my son and working with young people/children on the Spectrum, I have never seen anyone on the Spectrum turn "violent" , aggressive yes, 100%. Have meltdowns, as they are called, not "flip out" yes! and the reasons behind can be varied, but believe me there is always a reason. But violence, towards others?? True violence towards others? No. Towards themselves, yes, yes and yes again. Now I could not be so presumptuous to assume that because I have not experienced it, it does not happen. I'm sure it does. However, to link this horrible crime to Autism is plain and simple wrong because logically it does not make sense. It is not a criteria or tool to gage the behaviour of a person with Autism. There lies, in my opinion, the ignorance.

    Also, you are not taking into account any other conditions that may also be present, eg. ADHD or the mental illness that can also coincide. And what is so sad to me is that Autism is not a new condition, it is not a modern epidemic and has been around as long as man has walked the earth, yet society knows so little, understands so little about the condition that myths/half truths and just plain lies exist and continue to pervade. So we have older people, young people and sadly still even children , though it is rare, that are still going undiagnosed, misunderstood and end up with mental illness, (depression being high on that list) or even worse in prison. Why? Why? Because they literally perceive life, their lives differently then we do and have difficulties in four areas, social and emotional understanding, language and communication, flexible thinking and behaviour as well as sensory issues...

    And on a final note, the reason you say the boy "flipped"- having his WoW account hacked, seriously? I do hope that was meant to be a sick joke or you really have No knowledge of Autism/Aspergers at all. Believe me if, and I mean a big IF the boy does actually have a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum, it was not just having his account hacked, as you so flippantly put it, that led him to such a horrible crime and tragedy.

  9. thunderlips11


    Follow
    Befriend (13)
    114 threads
    3,411 comments
    Premium

    9   9:18am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    thunderlips11 says

    Aggressive behavior can and does lead to violence - just not necessarily planned and intentional violence. Just because somebody flips out and smacks you out of frustration doesn't make the violence any less violent because it wasn't "Planned" or "Aforethought".

    BRE says

    The above statement is why I commented about being ignorant. You assume that all aggressive behaviour leads to violence and I promise you in my years...

    I didn't say "all", I said "can and does". That doesn't mean always, all the time, and inevitably will.

    "Sometimes, heartbreak can and does lead to violence" != "Everybody whoever had a broken heart will commit violence inevitably."

    N=1. Here are some different experiences than yours:

    Fatimahelz
    March 25th, 2009
    Dear Doctors,

    I have an autistic brother who is now 24 years old. He is really kind and friendly but sometimes he gets very aggressive. He would hit me or my sister or anybody around him. We tried taking him to the doctor but all he does is just gives him more and more medication that would basically turn him into a vegetable. I refuse to give him that medication because it gets him to be so exhausted and powerless which makes him even more irritated and more aggressive. And when I dont give it to him he starts hitting everybody around him. I dont know what to do.
    Did you find this post helpful?
    Tell a Friend | Report
    Avatar
    grandma46
    replied October 14th, 2009
    Autisum
    I am a 46 yr old grandmother. Raising my 4 yr old grandson. Who I am trying to get into the Marcus Clinic in Atlanta. But in the meantime it is very frustrating not knowing how to help him. He is in pr-k and is constantly hitting and kicking the other kids and his out burst of anger are so hard to handle. You have to be very gentel with him, and sometimes that don't work. I need more help on how to deal with his anger. Write me if you have any suggestions..Please..

    Follow us: @ehealthforums on Twitter

    http://ehealthforum.com/health/aggressive-autistic-brother-t175689.html#axzz2J0ZRH9vl

    I found the above in the first few links on a google search for "aggressive behavior autistic children".

    And on a final note, the reason you say the boy "flipped"- having his WoW account hacked, seriously? I do hope that was meant to be a sick joke or you really have No knowledge of Autism/Aspergers at all. Believe me if, and I mean a big IF the boy does actually have a diagnosis of Autism Spectrum, it was not just having his account hacked, as you so flippantly put it, that led him to such a horrible crime and tragedy.

    I also found this article, which talks about how aggression can come about when the routine of an autistic person is broken.

    A frequent question from both parents and teachers is how do you discipline children that behave badly — and by that I mean become physically aggressive or start having tantrums and throwing things around physically.

    The first thing to remember is the fact that patients with Autism Syndromes have a brain disorder. This brain disorder is particularly manifested by abnormal neuropathology. These children have hyperfunctioning of local neural microcircuits in the brain which produce hyperreactivity and hyperplasticity.

    If we were to stay with those two concepts, hyperreactivity meaning reacting more to any sensory stimulation, most children will hyperreact to auditory stimulation but it is also on occasions visual stimulation as well. Some of them will react to sensory stimulation such as touching or changes in temperature.

    What this causes is an overabundance of stimuli in an individual who cannot quickly adapt and react appropriately.

    The other piece of the puzzle that most people do not recognize is that all humans are genetically determined to have patterns of reactivity to very basic specific stimulus. We have a reactivity to situations that produce anger, fear, or threat as examples, and most of our instinctive reaction is to protect ourselves physically. Within those patterns of reaction, aggression is a frequent one.

    These hyperfunctioning microcircuits in many of occasions become autonomous and “memory trapped” (similar to “muscle memory” through repetition) leading to hyperperception, hyperattention, and hyperemotionality.

    The basic pathological problems are in the neocortex (the new cortex in the brain) and the amygdala, which is an area of the brain that reacts to threat and anxiety.

    As the children grow older, and they are driven by overtly strong reactions to experiences, the brain is driven by hyperpreferences, meaning overly selective states, which become more extreme with each new experience and may be particularly accelerated by emotionally charged experience and trauma.

    The Autistic child becomes trapped in a limited but highly secure internal world favoring minimal extremes and surprises.

    http://www.brightmindsinstitute.com/blog/2011/08/25/how-to-modify-aggressive-behavior-in-children-with-autism/

    Now if Lanza's normal routine - perhaps playing WoW for a few hours every morning - was prevented somehow, he might have flipped. According to reports, police believe Lanza's mother was shot in bed and may have been asleep, meaning she wasn't able to distract him with reassuring familiar things or otherwise calm him down.

  10. thunderlips11


    Follow
    Befriend (13)
    114 threads
    3,411 comments
    Premium

    10   9:31am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    BRE says

    The above statement is why I commented about being ignorant. You assume that all aggressive behaviour leads to violence and I promise you in my years raising my son and working with young people/children on the Spectrum, I have never seen anyone on the Spectrum turn "violent" , aggressive yes, 100%. Have meltdowns, as they are called, not "flip out" yes! and the reasons behind can be varied, but believe me there is always a reason. But violence, towards others?? True violence towards others? No. Towards themselves, yes, yes and yes again. Now I could not be so presumptuous to assume that because I have not experienced it, it does not happen. I'm sure it does. However, to link this horrible crime to Autism is plain and simple wrong because logically it does not make sense. It is not a criteria or tool to gage the behaviour of a person with Autism. There lies, in my opinion, the ignorance.

    No, my beef is that the Autistic are often represented as being incapable of violence against others (as your mention of your personal experience above seemed to insinuate), and whenever we have a mental flipout resulting in deaths that make the national news, it seems to me that special interest groups and the media start falling all over themselves into misleading the public with over-simplistic statements about violence and autism, or violence and mental health aren't linked.

    Do all or most Autistic people hurt others? No. Do they hurt others at all? Yes, they do.

    I blame a lot of things here. The lack of support for single parents with mentally ill people, the stupidity of having open firearms with a mentally handicapped child in the house.

    But one thing I can't stand is black/white, 0/1 thinking. Sometimes, mentally ill people commit violence, including ones with Autism. There is this fear that if we admit this, somehow everybody will be prejudiced against mentally ill people. Actually, they will be more informed and correct, particularly as to WHY mentally ill people can flip and become dangerous, like having their routine disrupted somehow, and how to possibly intervene properly, by distracting the person with familiar things. This is the opposite of ignorance.

  11. BRE


    Follow
    Befriend
    7 comments

    11   10:52am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Ok, We agree on some points. Definitely, but as you assumed I implied that those on the Autism Spectrum never turn violent, I assumed you implied that aggression in those on the Spectrum will always turn violent. I really dislike generalizations.

    Thank you for the links, while I appreciate it, I'm in the middle of an eventual Masters degree, specifically SEN Autism and have been doing my own research on the prevalence of violence in those on the Spectrum and to be honest there isn't a lot of research published currently. While the blog link you posted was interesting, I'm more interested in proper research done that proves a link to violence resulting from a change in schedule of a person on the Spectrum who has had the correct individualised support and therapy. Thank you also for the "experiences" but again, I never said they Didn't happen. I found it interesting that in each experience was a "cry" for help, so the support and therapy was not in place.

    But I still stand on my point about you calling it "flipping out", believe me it is much more deeper then that and as a professional working with those on the Spectrum as well as a mother of a teen on the spectrum, it offends me. I asked my son as well and he actually agreed! rarely happens :) Also having autism is no refection on intelligence. Autism is diagnosed by behaviours only. It is not biological and like my son, you can be of "higher intelligence" and still be on the Spectrum without a diagnosis of Aspergers Syndrome. My son's diagnosis is High Functioning Autism Spectrum and he is currently studying Japanese at 12. There are those on the Spectrum who are intellectually challenged and they are usually considered "lower functioning". Though what people do not realise is with diagnosis and the proper therapies and support those on the Spectrum can "move through the Spectrum" eg- becoming more "functioning" then first considered. This is particularly true for those who are considered non-verbal. It is also not a mental illness, though those in France still seem to think so. Having no support, intervention therapy or understanding, or just being genetically prone can lead to mental illness but that is separate from Autism.

    As for the gun "laws" in the States, it is one of the reasons as an american I now live in London, UK and have done for over 20 years .

    And again, I'll repeat that having an issue with a game would more likely have resulted in him smashing the console, the room, or possibly hurting his mother, but I also stand by my statement that is rather flippant and I'm sorry with all due respect, ignorant, to say that was the reason he killed his mother, and 26 others. Also on a side note, to imply that his lack of sexual activity could be the reason he killed, is also quite ignorant.
    Unless he specifically also had a co-morbid extremely serious mental illness - which I don't doubt may be the ultimate reason, but again if he was on the Spectrum with no support, it can and often does lead to serious mental illness in those on the Spectrum, specifically as I mentioned before depression, but then it is the mental illness, going untreated that would have led him to kill, not autism/Asperger syndrome.

    What concerns me more, rather then the fear mongering idea that those on the Spectrum may/will turn violent, is the lack of understanding, awareness and support that is continuing and Autism as I've said as been around as long as we have. The only reason people think it is some "modern epidemic" is because we used to put them in Special Schools years ago. Now we are more enlightened ( well most of us, I'd like to believe) and we believe and support and inclusion and hopefully as I do, in Neurodiversity. But with that comes the support that is necessary and that means money and unless it is affecting them personally, most people do not see it as a priority. If there was more awareness and true understanding of what it means to actually have Autism or be on the Spectrum then more support would be available.

    Those on the spectrum Just literally perceive life, their lives and think differently. They are not " less then" and for the support they need they are seen as dis- abled, because they do not Think like us. period. full stop. so I agree there is no black and white in this issue, it is not as simple as that, by any means. Yes, of course those on the Spectrum can and do become violent. And as I explained, I believe there are reasons for that and early diagnosis intervention and support is key. Which is why I will continue to fight the prejudice, the mis-conceptions portrayed, the vilification in linking violence to autism and spread awareness through the facts of what autism actually is ( Not a brain disease! As I've seen it called recently! The brain is not diseased and will not "get better" those on the Spectrum are Not ill. (note- those that are have co-morbid conditions as well as autism) Their brain is, for lack of a better way of putting it , just "wired differently". It is as complex and simple as that.

    I also want to point out again,the misunderstanding, lack of diagnosis, frustration and lack of awareness of Autism can be what leads to aggression in those on the Spectrum To put it bluntly, if you literally thought differently to literally everyone around you, you were constantly put down, mis-treated and misunderstood and possibly experienced aggression and violence towards you due to others not understanding that you think differently again with No support anywhere, How Would You feel??? Now imagine that is happening your Whole Life??? you know what I mean?

    So as far as I know it has not been confirmed definitely that the shooter at Sandy hook is on the Spectrum and if so, what support did he have if any? And if he did not have a diagnosis or have the proper proven therapy ( eg, Speech and language therapy, social skills) Why not? Was he in school? What support was there? Why did no one notice because believe me if this boy was on the Spectrum and going through a particularly bad time in his life someone knew and ignored it. If the boy is on the Spectrum then a hell of a lot of questions need to be asked and many people need to be held responsible as well because if he was on the Spectrum he was Gravely let down with a horrible tragic consequence, to say the least.

    May I suggest a few books to read, if you are interested? . All are readily available on Amazon.
    The Autistic Spectrum- Jill Boucher
    The Autism Spectrum in the 21st Century- exploring Psychology, biology and practice- Ilona Roth
    Autism and the edges of the known world- Olga Bogdashina
    Autism -explaining the enigma- Uta Frith
    Communication issues in Autism and Asperger syndrome- Olga Bogdashina
    People behaving badly- Helping people with AS move on from behavioral and emotional challenges- John Clements

    and for personal accounts- by those on the Spectrum
    anything written by Donna Williams
    Anything written by Temple Grandin
    Born on a Blue Day- Daniel Tammet
    A Real Person - life on the outside- Gunilla Gerland

  12. Nobody


    Follow
    Befriend
    10 threads
    280 comments
    San Jose, CA

    12   11:53am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    It is generally a good idea not to give a gun to an idiot. I don't consider my 8 year old son an idiot, but I definitely don't get him near a gun. Not even a BB gun. He can shoot his eye out, for god sake. So even if a person whom you live with is not a complete idiot, perhaps a moron, it is still a good idea not to have a gun around.

    Maybe, to purchase a gun, you need to take an IQ test, like a driving test.

  13. BRE


    Follow
    Befriend
    7 comments

    13   11:53am Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    to give you a personal view of what a meltdown is like...

    " But certain sounds frightened me- dogs barking. mopeds, tractors and cars, engines of various kinds. they would explode inside of me and make me lose sense of the way my body related to my surroundings. It was like being flung into space. Straight out into space-whoosh- quite without warning. Sometimes I screamed and covered my ears..."
    Gunilla Gerland - A Real Person- life on the inside

    So what you call a "flip out" is literally a "fight or flight" biologically felt, adrenaline charged reaction based on perceiving sound literally differently. she can not help nor stop that reaction without support and therapy. Very little is said about the Sensory Perception issues which are also very much a part of Autism Spectrum, just as Social and emotional understanding is. But I doubt the general public know about sensory issues, like they do about the social ones. But they are a huge issue that every child on the Spectrum faces and most likely could possibly be the reason behind your posted examples of aggressive/violent behaviour in those children on the spectrum.

    So imagine being un-diagnosed with no support? Going through you're whole life that way?

    All I'm trying to say again, is that if the boy in the Sandy Hook case is on the Spectrum he slipped through some massive crack and could not have had the support and therapy he should have had and I personally believe that situation would lead to a pretty seriously extreme mental illness that then went unchecked and untreated.
    So we should be asking the question why.

  14. BRE


    Follow
    Befriend
    7 comments

    14   12:02pm Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nobody says

    It is generally a good idea not to give a gun to an idiot. I don't consider my 8 year old son an idiot, but I definitely don't get him near a gun. Not even a BB gun. He can shoot his eye out, for god sake. So even if a person whom you live with is not a complete idiot, perhaps a moron, it is still a good idea not to have a gun around.

    Maybe, to purchase a gun, you need to take an IQ test, like a driving test.

    What exactly are you implying please with the use of the words idiot and moron? Autism plays no part on IQ, by that I mean you can be on the Spectrum and have an extremely high IQ.

    please educate yourself.

    www.autism.org.uk
    http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/myths-facts-and-statistics/myths-and-facts.aspx

  15. FaithInHim


    Follow
    Befriend
    3 threads
    38 comments

    15   2:28pm Fri 25 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Thedaytoday says

    Prescription drugs and gun violence have more in common with what you are suggesting.

    Hmmm you make a good point. Why isnt anyone looking into Prozac, Zoloft, and others as the link?

    Adam Lanza was on antidepressants such as Prozac,
    so was James Holmes and Jeff Weise.

    heres more
    http://www.hangthebankers.com/list-of-school-shootings-on-antidepressants/

    Zyprexa is being monitored by the FDA right now. Symbyax (Zyprexa and Prozac) is being monitored by the FDA for its risk right now. Prozac is not being monitored at all?
    http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/ucm111350.htm

    Why is that? Considering all the mass shootings it seems like this drug needs to be monitored.

  16. thunderlips11


    Follow
    Befriend (13)
    114 threads
    3,411 comments
    Premium

    16   4:00pm Sat 26 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    BRE says

    And again, I'll repeat that having an issue with a game would more likely have resulted in him smashing the console, the room, or possibly hurting his mother, but I also stand by my statement that is rather flippant and I'm sorry with all due respect, ignorant, to say that was the reason he killed his mother, and 26 others.

    This is where we disagree.

    I don't think it's unheard of. People who are far higher functioning than Lanza
    flip out and kill over much more minor things, like changing the channel from Wrestling.

    I think a bad moment can crystallize somebody's rage and frustration generally. There's no doubt he had negative reactions in school as well, which is why he was drawn there - why else go?

    While we need to wait and see what comes out from the investigation, from what is being reported now, this does not appear to be planned.

    Autism is a broad spectrum, it sounds like your son has a mild case, but Adam Lanza did not.

    One of the common threads of school shootings is that ostracism or bullying happens to the perps, and it's a common thread through all of the recent tragedies worldwide, from VTU to Sandy Hook to Columbine.
    http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/adam-lanza-autism-asperger-rumors-rejection-bullying-are-risk-factors-among-shooters-experts-say

  17. BRE


    Follow
    Befriend
    7 comments

    17   7:38am Sun 27 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    thunderlips11 says

    This is where we disagree.

    I don't think it's unheard of. People who are far higher functioning than Lanza

    flip out and kill over much more minor things, like changing the channel from Wrestling.

    Yes, we definitely disagree.

    Again you are not taking into account what possibly led him to that point! I keep repeating it as it cannot be dismissed. Years of misunderstanding, frustration, lack of support and therapy,( especially if un-diagnosed) leading to extremely serious mental illness, if he is fact on the Autism Spectrum, would have led him to commit the crime, not one meltdown. Honestly, I can not make this any clearer. What I do not understand is how you stand by this idea of "one flip out" lead to the murders when you yourself posted a link about bullying leading to shootings!!! Bullying happens over a long period of time usually right???? So someone is not bullied once one day and then kills a person the next right? I'm afraid that you are contradicting yourself.

    I would really Love to see the research findings published that proves differently and your point of "one flip out leading to violent murder" in those on the Spectrum that have 1- been diagnosed and 2- have the proper therapy and support in place. You won't find it as it doesn't exist. what does exist is research on the institutionalization of those on the Spectrum for years, misdiagnosed and heavily medicated for years and then suddenly released into society, or those un-diagnosed, un-supported, with none of the therapy needed, misunderstood, frustrated as no-one seems to understand them, branded as bad or unworthy, stupid or even the dreaded "r" word ( retarded, an outdated prejudicial word), often incarcerated ( yes, many un-diagnosed prisoners!), developing extreme mental illness again walking around in society.

    This is because Autism spectrum as it is known now ( and so much is still NOT known!) did not come into "being" until the 1990's. The diagnostic criteria of "autism" broadened into autism Spectrum with Aspergers as a separate diagnosis around the late 90's. (Now aspergers is included in the Autism Spectrum Diagnosis as per the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual ( DSMV))...

    So let's think about just how many un-diagnosed, un-supported people there actually may be in society, born before 1990- when the diagnosis came into existence as it is now, but after the 1970's when the institutions and special schools were closing down? To me a more important point to think about.

    thunderlips11 says

    Autism is a broad spectrum, it sounds like your son has a mild case, but Adam Lanza did not.

    Ok, here is where I have to rein in the pure Rage I felt reading that. How dare you. How the hell do you know what "level" of autism my son has? Are you a pediatrician? A psychiatrist even? You do not know my son to make such a sweeping generalisation. I said he was "high functioning", I never said his autism manifested "mildly"!!!! The only reason I am not truly showing my anger is because you again have shown you absolutely and categorically do NOT understand autism. I also do not understand your persistent use of "flip" or "flip out" and wonder considering my previous post your usage is to antagonize? Which makes me think again about my original post and my belief in your ignorance in reference to autism.

    I agree only time will tell with the outcome of Sandy Hook, but in reference to this discussion I really do not see how I have anything more to add as you continue in your, again, forgive me but ill-informed point of view. You have provided no real evidence to back up your opinion.
    I really do suggest strongly that you look into the books I've suggested and maybe then you will understand further exactly what I am trying to point out to you.

    If nothing else this has been informative for me in showing me that Awareness of the Autism Spectrum has a long way to go and again, forgive me but there is still a lot of mis-informed ignorance out there in society. We have a long way to go.

  18. BRE


    Follow
    Befriend
    7 comments

    18   7:52am Sun 27 Jan 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    FaithInHim says

    Why is that? Considering all the mass shootings it seems like this drug needs to be monitored.

    To me the question would be if we are giving these drugs then do the people have a diagnosis of mental illness? And more importantly what support and therapy is in place or are we just giving them the pills and sending them on their way??

    It isn't the pills, it's why they were being used and what else was in place.... but that involves resources, time and money, something the general public will not give unless it directly affects them.

Premium member thunderlips11 is moderator of this thread.

Email

Username

Watch comments by email
Home   Tips and Tricks   Questions or suggestions? Mail p@patrick.net   Thank you for your kind donations

Page took 112 milliseconds to create.