Watchhttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-shootings-newspaper-carriers.html
An attorney representing two women who were delivering newspapers when they were shot by police during a massive manhunt for an ex-LAPD officer called the incident "unacceptable," saying his clients looked nothing like the suspect. Emma Hernandez, 71, was delivering the Los Angeles Times with her daughter, Margie Carranza, 47, in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue in Torrance on Thursday morning when Los Angeles police detectives apparently mistook their pickup for that of Christopher Dorner, the 33-year-old fugitive suspected of killing three people and injuring two others. Hernandez, who attorney Glen T. Jonas said was shot twice in the...
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Dan8267 says
There are no militias, you can't even carry a gun in CA anymore unless you want to get shot by trigger happy LAPD cops, who will gladly plant any evidence on you and claim self defense if necessary.
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Dan8267 says
Take a good look... watch how crazy the LAPD is running around looking for ONE guy.... What do you think they would do with 100+ of your "militia" types scattered round all out to get them??
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Simi Valley, CA
tinted windows. cops panicked because they couldn't see.
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Mark D says
Without knowing who the occupants were.... just start shooting...
Yup, that's the police force I want protecting me.... NOT...
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It's all just harmless fun.
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Need more target practice, most of the shots, were in the tailgate.. lucky ladies.
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This is a perfect example of why the NRA is dead wrong about arming everyone the world would be safer. Sure, one person couldn't perpetrate a mass killing spree as easily. But there were be COUNTLESS accidental, fear, and bad decision making shootings occurring on a daily basis.
If trained policy officers can't control their emotions and not shoot first, ask questions later... How does the NRA expect ordinary men, women and children with very basic how-to gun safety training to react in a stressful situation when they are carrying a gun!?
I would predict this is what would happen...
Man attempts to steal old ladies purse on busy street... Another locked and loaded pedestrian attempts to shoot the suspect as he runs away with the purse.. he misses and hits a child... The child's father turns the corner.. shoots at the man trying to protect the old lady... boom.. man shot dead.. another guy carrying a concealed weapons permit turns the corner sees the father just shot another man in cold blood. Fires at the father...
And so forth...
This would happen on a daily basis if everyone were packing heat in a busy city.
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Bang! Stop! Bang! Or I'll shoot! Bang!
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This guy will end up being some peoples folk hero.
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FortWayne says
Apparently, we do need drones. To watch the police at all times.
I have had a less than favorable view of the behavior and judgement of the police in general, and this is a low on par with the Oscar Grant shooting.
Nobody, and especially not police, should start a shooting match UNLESS you are fired upon OR there is clear (in this case visual) evidence that gunfire is IMMINENT.
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BoomAndBustCycle says
Sorry to burst your bubble, but thousands CCW now everyday. Do you see THEM shooting up innocent people?
Didn't think so....
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IDDQD says
You obviously have never been to LA.
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BoomAndBustCycle says
This is the best argument I've heard on either side of the debate.
It doesn't address exactly what gun laws we should have, but it perfectly addresses the argument that a well-armed society is safer.
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leo707's website
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justme says
Not only was there clearly zero danger for them to see, they did not even get a good look at their target. You should always be able to identify your target.
Police shooting at what they think might be there, and doing so in a city, is the moral equivalent of a gang doing a drive by shooting.
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Dublin, CA
BoomAndBustCycle says
Lol, hilarious.
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leo707's website
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Dan8267 says
I am not sure...
Their is a big difference between an armed civilian who will be held accountable, and a group that has little fear of seeing any consequences for bad calls along with an authority complex and a desire to see others submit.
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Why do minorities keep insisting on acting suspiciously around police officers forcing them to shoot.
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Moderate Infidel says
Nothing they are reported to have done, violated the Chris Rock Rules:
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Simi Valley, CA
if blacks are going to riot again, at least do it right this time and do it in a white community, where it would really matter. after all that's where the tension is, isn't it.
watching them burn down their own "hoods" gets boring after the 10th time.
grow a pair.
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Moderate Infidel says
I think this is why there are more blacks in prison. Many don't get the whole on the DL thing, they handle all their bidness right out on the showroom floor and in the open.
Cop weed with a black guy and your driving down the road and he tells you... "Yo stop right here..." "Right here?!?" "Yeah man right here just stop the car in the street... YO De`de! where's Marry at!" "Hey easy man, keep it on the down low, the cops are right over there." "Man they don't know who the fuck marry is chill Mother fucker I got this..." (Wooooo wup wup car pulls in behind us)
White guys are like Maxwell Smart, have to park three houses down, walk through the back alley, through the gate and a series of doors, vaults, and elevators. Then they have to stay a while like it's a "Visit". But I think that's just so they(the guy you copped from) can get high on your dime.
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BoomAndBustCycle says
Nice speculation but real-life experience of Vermont, Alaska and other free states is quite different. Remember hysteria in the press when Florida become "shall-issue" state? There were predictions of it becoming "Wild West" and people killing each other over parking spaces. Nothing of the kind happened. So you might want to tone down your prediction about COUNTLESS "bad" shooting occurring on daily basis.
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BoomAndBustCycle says
Care to provide any proof of something like this happening in RL? NY is not only busy city in the US: there are big cities in "shall-issue" states where lots of people carry daily.
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IDDQD says
LAPD has had a long standing problem with minorities that goes back over 60 years.
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BoomAndBustCycle says
None of the existing concealed-carry states have this problem that you imagine. The LAPD cops act like thugs because they have a long history of de facto legal immunity from their abuses. Medieval aristocrats used to behave that way too towards the common people precisely because of the same reason: legal immunity from their ill behavior towards the lower caste. The proposal to disarm all common people and let law enforcement only legally have guns is rather similar to medieval laws banning swords and armor ownership outside the aristocratic knight/samurai class.
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Redwood City, CA
leo707 says
That's an accurate description because many police departments are essentially gangs with badges whose internal motto is "to protect and serve ourselves".
If a civilian did the same thing, they would be behind bars charged with at least assault with a deadly weapon and maybe attempted murder. Here the cops are probably on paid administrative leave, and the police union will staunchly defend their actions as being reasonable in view of the circumstances.
Oh yeah, and since they're in California, they will be retiring at age 50 with six-figure pensions and lifetime medical benefits.
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Los Angeles, CA
#1.) I have no idea why the local televised news was reporting the women as being asian.
#2.) Its probably of benefit to let things shake out and see what the investigation shows. I'll agree it does not look good. Appears the cops shot the truck from behind for god knows what reason. IF things are what they appear at face value, I do believe the officers will be fired and charged with a crime.
#3.) Creating a nexus between this incident and what Dorner wrote in his "manifesto" seems a bit ridiculous. Dorner's writtings have been evaluated by several mental health professionals and universally determined to be written by someone who is mentally ill with personality disorders. To simply discard the professional opinion and substitute ones own armchair quarterback opinions...well that seems kinda nuts also.
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Call it Crazy says
Yes. All the time.
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Who's going to arrest those police officers with all the gun control against the peons of society? The risk of attacking cops and having to justify it later is too great a risk. So how can the power of the militia be regulated such that it serves as an effective balance to the power of law enforcement?
Does that mean people shouldn't have guns at all? Or do you just have a problem with the militia argument?
Dan8267 says
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Who can say for sure that they weren't controlling their emotions? Maybe they want to kill the guy and know that they have enough support to be trigger-happy without having to face punishment. Will be interesting to see whether and to what extent these guys will get punished.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't people who carry concealed weapons need to go through extensive training in order to have such a permit.
The NRA represents gun manufacturers and a small percentage of gun owners. I could be wrong on that, but I don't know that the majority of gun owners are 'gun-toting NRA freaks'. Not sure who died and made the NRA universal spokespeople for gun owners.
BoomAndBustCycle says
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MMR says
Just the militia argument and for the exact reasons you stated.
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MMR says
Agreed. This was premeditated. The went out to murder the guy so that he would not stand trial and have a chance to defend himself against the charges. After all, there is a chance he might actually win the trial.
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Simi Valley, CA
this guy should write to wikileaks.org
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L.A. police to reopen probe of firing of fugitive ex-cop. While his rants may have merit, he killed innocent people -not sure it is a good idea.
http://news.yahoo.com/l-police-reopen-probe-firing-fugitive-ex-officer-032712647.html
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Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
lostand confused says
Whistle-blowers are fired every day. They shouldn't be and his firing should be investigated. If indeed he was fired in retaliation for reporting what he truly believed to be an incident of police brutality, those people responsible for firing him should be held accountable for their actions.
However, Dorner will hopefully be found and sent to prison for life (or get the death penalty). Unfortunately, he will probably end this with a suicide by cop or kill himself, so he won't have to face the protracted justice system. He won't have to go to jail and sit in Solitary every day, because he would be in danger if he were to remain in the general population. He should have to suffer every day for his senseless, violent actions. There's no excuse for murdering innocent people in retaliation for being fired.
He is currently holding hostage a bunch of people (listed in his manifesto). I'm sure that they are terrified and, in their own way, may never fully recover from living in fear of being murdered.
But these are two different issues. As I've mentioned numerous times before, I was a whistle-blower and was fired, then the company retaliated against me by getting me fired from my next job and continuing to do their best to create problems in my professional life. It took me three years to even begin to recover professionally.
Until you've endured the retaliation and humiliation suffered by hundreds (or thousands) of whistle-blowers nation-wide, it's difficult to fathom how it can affect a person. And that doesn't even take into account the financial devastation of losing your job and not being able to find another in the field which you excell.
Now it appears that the police are shooting first and asking questions later - and causing harm to innocent bystanders. I understand that they are paranoid, but they should act professionally and follow their protocols.
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This is so funny, I needed to pass it on...
Former LAPD officer with a creative approach to dispute resolution - m4w - 39 (Wooded Areas)
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/stp/3607482957.html
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leo707's website
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MMR says
The training is around 20 hours so I would not call it "extensive", but you do have to pass a shooting competency test to pass the training. So, if at the end of the training you can't shoot, you are not getting a permit. At least that is the way it works in CA.
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robertoaribas's website
leo707 says
az used to be the same, though now I think you are basically allowed to carry concealed even without a permit.
Really, the training is centered on what crimes would justify deadly force, and in AZ they are the death penalty crimes; murder, kidnapping, arson of occupied structure, etc.
AND stressing that you are going to be responsible for each bullet fired; miss the bad guy and hit someone else, expect to be bankrupted.
You can't instigate anything either. You can't start a fight, lose, and then due to your imminent danger shoot the opponent;
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leo707's website
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robertoaribas says
Yeah, that sounds pretty much the same as CA. It was a couple decades ago for me, but I think about half the time is in the class and the other half at the range.
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Here in PA, you got to the courthouse and apply for tghe permit at the sherriffs office. They do a background check, you pay a fee, and that's the extent of your training for carrying concealed
What fucking bizzarro world do people live in where they still refer to this wholly corrupted system of suffering as "the Justice system"? Eyes wide fucking shut-land
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
And we're forced to address these people as "your honor" LOL,,,,sure as shit ain't MY honor
This is a result of the Clintonian leftist wet dream of an out of control police state and privatized prisons. When everythings a crime, everyones a criminal. This rot is festering away at our society
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Mark D says
Tinted windows? Their windows where DOWN. They were delivering news papers !!! What happened to pulling the car over and having the person exit the car if they thought it was him??