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Colorado school bars transgendered 1st-grader from using girls' restroom


By Mr Happygoluckofus   Follow   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 12:01am PST   1,447 views   52 comments   Watch (1)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (2)  

Yeah I remember when I was 6 years old. I had a passion to take on the state and federal laws in every court I could romp in.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/27/us/colorado-transgender-girl-school/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Just like she did during the first half of the school year, first grader Coy Mathis wants to use the girls' restroom at her Colorado elementary school. But school officials won't let her.

The reason? Coy is transgendered, born with male sex organs but a child who identifies herself as female.

She has dressed as a girl for most of last year. And her passport and state-issued identification recognize her as female.

In December, the Fountain-Fort Carson School District informed Coy's parents that Coy would be barred from using the girls' restrooms at Eagleside Elementary in Fountain after winter break.

I identify as a Billionare, I demand the State give me my rightful wad of cash. This is inhumane that I am made to suffer as a commoner lowly worker. Oh the horror!

These parents should be arrested for child abuse and the kid sent to Pat Roberts, or at least a good Child psychologist to undo the year of psychological abuse HIS parents put him through.

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curious2   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 5:19am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 13

Reality says

BTW, curious2, this disagreement between us finally proves that we are not of the same mind. LOL

:) I thought that was obvious to anyone who saw our disagreement about Arkansas' unique criminal penalties for alleged holdover tenants who haven't even been issued a court order to vacate.

Anyway I guess we do disagree here also. Flipping up or down a seat takes hardly any time, most of the time is due to biology. As for confidential conversations, there are plenty of other places for that. And as for sinks, mass production has made commercial ones so cheap that it's insignificant to the cost of the building, you could put one in every stall if you wanted. (The ridiculous "Flip This House" fashion sinks cost more, which is why they need a TV show to sell them, but there is no shortage of basic sinks.)

Ceffer   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 5:21am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 14

Equal rights demands that all boys should be able to wag their weenies in the girl's bathroom. It is only democratic and fair. Why should chicks with dicks have all the freedom?

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 7:41am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 15

Why the hell do we even use multi-user restrooms (i.e. tolietrooms) anyway? Are we so damn primitive that we can't figure out how to build individual self-cleaning unisex single-user restrooms? Does wall technology still elude us? 'Cause you know, the only difference between a room with three toilets and three rooms each with one toilet is a pair of walls and a pair of doors.

Multi-user toilet rooms... Who was the dumb ass that thought of that idea?

With single user rooms you can independently clean them, flush the smell, prevent assholes who don't flush from inflicting their smells on others, and even automate the cleaning as the room layout is greatly simplified and the room can know when it's occupied and when it can self-clean.

Oh, and better quality of service because you're not leaving half the servers idle while the other half is pegged.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 8:06am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 16

"A college fraternity in Boston has raised more than twice the money needed to pay for a new pledge's gender transition surgery."

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 8:38am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 17

Dan8267 says

Does wall technology still elude us? 'Cause you know, the only difference between a room with three toilets and three rooms each with one toilet is a pair of walls and a pair of doors.

Walls? didn't some kid on an air plain in China prove that you don't need walls? or even a toilet for that matter?

Dan8267 says

Multi-user toilet rooms... Who was the dumb ass that thought of that idea?

I am glad you asked.

Humans have a long and illustrious history of communal unisex defecation. It was not until the invention of the modern flush toilet that people began to get it in their heads that they needed privacy to expel. Not only was going to the bathroom not private, but if you were fancy enough you would employ someone as "The Groom of the Stool."

I am not remembering exactly why (smell, space?) flush toilets were first put in a repurposed closet, but I don't think it had anything to do with privacy while crapping.

It is not so much a question of who thought up the multi-user bathroom, but why did we stop using multi-user bathrooms in the first place.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:05am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 18

leo707 says

It is not so much a question of who thought up the multi-user bathroom, but why did we stop using multi-user bathrooms in the first place.

Because private space has value. Not everybody wants to be the Chinese kid in the airplane aisle, even if they were allowed to do that. Not everyone wants to be in public all the time. Extroverts might be happy in cube farms or with a desk in the middle of a bullpen, for example Mike Bloomberg put his desk in the middle of a City Hall lobby and demanded many other city employees do the same, but other people aren't that way at all. I can't understand how some people can work in a cube farm all day, let alone Bloomberg's bullpen. Maybe they're terribly afraid of being alone, like Homefool they might fear slitting their own wrists with no one to rescue them. Anyway as Jerry Seinfeld observed, the human body requires a lot of maintenance; if it were a car you wouldn't buy it. Diabetics inject insulin, women powder their noses or breast feed their babies, parents of either sex change diapers, many elderly people also wear diapers and don't like to advertise that fact, the list goes on and on. Nudists argue that everyone should go naked all the time, but if you notice it's always the wrong ones that go naked, never the people you'd actually want to see naked. In public space, people are actors dressed on a stage, but most can't continue that performance all the time without a break.

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:29am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 19

curious2 says

Because private space has value.

Yes, but a lot of our modern need for privacy is cultural. The high level of privacy that we expect today is certainly not a human need. Even in the past when public/group lavatories were the norm people did have ways of finding privacy, but they did not feel the need to have to defecate in private.

Just to be clear though I am an American and do enjoy my privacy. I don't actually advocate group-pooping, and eliminating privacy. Most of my comment was more or less tongue-in-cheek.

Just to play a little bit of the devil's advocate....

curious2 says

Not everyone wants to be in public all the time. Extroverts might be happy in cube farms or with a desk in the middle of a bullpen, for example Mike Bloomberg put his desk...

Humans are herd animals. Even introverts (I am technically an introvert) need social interaction. I could totally empathize with an introvert that does not want to follow Bloomberg down to the lobby. That move is much more than just a group workspace, but where people were being put on display. Cube farms are different and depressing for other reasons, to extroverts and introverts alike. It is easy for someone to be anonymous in a cube land.

curious2 says

In public space, people are actors dressed on a stage, but most can't continue that performance all the time without a break.

Yes, but our modern industrialized world expectations of what we need a "break" to do and how often we need to break is way more than in any other time in human history.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:37am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 20

leo707 says

our modern industrialized world expectations of what we need a "break" to do and how often we need to break is way more than in any other time in human history.

Part of that is because people can afford more than at any time in human history. Watch Brighton Beach Memoirs for some examples of how at least one writer who grew up in typical conditions of the 1940s wished he could have more privacy. More people can afford it now, and they get used to it. Kids have very little privacy because they are usually in spaces that are designed by adults, partly to supervise them. Kids build forts and treehouses and whatever else they can to get the privacy they want, and that motivation is probably inherent. Humans spread across the planet partly because of an instinct to get away from everybody else.

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:38am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 21

curious2 says

Humans spread across the planet partly because of an instinct to get away from everybody else.

Yeah, but they always end up bringing a bunch of people with them.

;)

curious2   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:41am PST   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 22

Not always.

Personally, I think part of America's appeal has always been the idea of the frontier, even for people who never actually go there. Conversely, part of most Americans' rejection of Obamacare is based on the closing of the frontier, i.e. even Richard Proenneke alone in the wilderness would be pursued by insurance companies demanding he pay for "care" that he can't possibly access anyway, and his government would penalize him now for his "mental activity" of deciding not to buy what the lobbyists are selling. (He'd be exempt if he joined one of certain religions favored by the IRS, it's only thinking for himself that's penalized.)

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:47am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 23

curious2 says

Not always.

Solo, is more the exception rather than the rule. Here is another extreme example of migrating to avoid other humans, but even they had more than 1 person.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/For-40-Years-This-Russian-Family-Was-Cut-Off-From-Human-Contact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html

curious2   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:49am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 24

I had read about that Russian family, they survived Stalin, unlike too many of their contemporaries. Natural selection favors diversity, which requires exceptions and exceptionalism.

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:52am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 25

curious2 says

Personally, I think part of America's appeal has always been the idea of the frontier, even for people who never actually go there.

Yes, but the safety of America's frontier is something that is relatively unique in human history. Almost anywhere else in the world or in time a solo adventurer would have a very high mortality rate, hence the ancient death sentence of banishment.

Even in the US going into the back country alone is not a good idea, and from time-to-time solo adventurers die in situations where a partner would have saved them.

leo707   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:54am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 26

curious2 says

I had read about that Russian family, they survived Stalin, unlike too many of their contemporaries. Natural selection favors diversity, which requires exceptions and exceptionalism.

Yeah, what I found strange with them is that even though they survived Stalin and showed incredible perseverance and exceptionalism, but in the end they never left the mountain and their DNA was selected for extinction.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 9:57am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 27

leo707 says

Yes, but the safety of America's frontier is something that is relatively unique in human history.

True, it reflects relatively recent technological advances enabling humans to prevail against almost any other species. But I wonder if in a sense it was ever thus. When John Glenn went into space, he went alone. Somebody had to have the instinct to see what was beyond the next hill and report back. Even ants, which are famously collective and cooperative, have scouts that go out on their own and leave a trail for others. Genetic instructions, rewarded by natural selection, tell them to do that.

leo707 says

Yeah, what I found strange with them is that even though they survived Stalin and showed incredible perseverance and exceptionalism, but in the end they never left the mountain and their DNA was selected for extinction.

I noticed that too, and thought it sad, but then whole families were also extinguished who stayed put, e.g. Stalin's genocidal starvation of Ukrainians. This is part of how natural selection favors diversity: it's impossible to know in advance which combination of traits will survive unpredictable future events, so the solution is to keep mixing and matching.

Reality   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 10:01am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 28

Multi-user single sex restrooms are used because:

1. There are regulations on minimum bathroom size on fixed buildings. Small fully enclosed bathroom makes many people feel claustrophobic. 55sqft is the minimum for homes, and public buildings with handicap access requirement may be as much as 100sqft as minimum. For a 500sqft available space, you can put in 4 individual rooms (8inch walls taking up the rest) serving 4 people at the same time, or 3 stalls, 2 urinals and 2 sinks in the mens room plus 4 stalls and 2 sinks in the women's bathroom next door, for a total service capacity of 13 people at the same time! 4 vs. 13 on the same square footage is what I was referring to as "economy of scale." In terms of construction cost, nothing going into public (as in tax funded) building is cheap, not after the "prevailing wage" union worker is done with installing.

2. Many women don't like using toilets where stranger male pee into without lifting the seat.

3. Women often help each other out with personal hygiene products and make up's. They don't really want men to hear tampon or pad requests or men to see dispensers or dispensers that any men would be touching or playing with.

4. Larger multiuser bathrooms also makes it possible to dispense with room door (a U shape walkway provides privacy). Frequently used public bathroom doors tend to have very icky door knobs.

Dan8267   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 10:03am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 29

leo707 says

Dan8267 says

Multi-user toilet rooms... Who was the dumb ass that thought of that idea?

I am glad you asked.

lol. Not the response I was expecting.

leo707 says

"The Groom of the Stool."

Yep, learned about that on Worst Jobs in History...

jvolstad   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 10:48am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 30

Colorado? Sure this wasn't California?

marcus   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 11:26am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 31

leo707 says

Humans have a long and illustrious history of communal unisex defecation

I would have to agree that human nature is for privacy while taking care of excretory functions. You go off into the bushes, far away enough probably not only to not be seen, but also not heard. You might have examples from Rome or whatever, but this is not what's deep in our natural instincts and DNA.

About the thread. I find myself in agreement with everyone that the parents are wierdo idiots with no common sense whatsoever. He's six !
So fucking what even if it's all him saying he wants to be a girl. Sorry son, your boy. Most girls that age aren't even THAT much different than boys, so what's the point ?

"You have a penis son,...therefore you're a boy." If you want to play house or tea party with girls or dolls or whatever, no problem. But you're a boy, okay."

marcus   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 11:33am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 32

I wouldn't be surprised if parents are misandrists (like mysogenists, but man haters).

JodyChunder   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 2:55pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 33

marcus says

I would have to agree that human nature is for privacy while taking care of excretory functions.

I think so too, though I did briefly work on a logging camp back in my youth with what you might call a genuine nature boy. He'd squat and squirt in the dirt not but 3 yards from our main site. There wasn't anything savage about the guy other than his weird disinhibition when it came to the lower functions of the anatomy.

elliemae   befriend   ignore   Wed, 27 Feb 2013, 11:32pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 34

I knew that I was a girl since the day that I was born. I'm assuming that ya'll knew you were the sex that you are since you were born.

But what if you had boy parts - and was a girl inside? Not that you were gay, which involves physical attraction - but a girl? You saw yourself in the mirror as a girl, you imagined yourself getting married in long flowing white dress, and did everything "girly."

What if you were born a girl, but inside you were a boy? Your heroes were men, you wanted to do guy things all the time and you saw yourself in the mirror as a boy?

The human body is amazing! We all have needs, wants & desires - but we all see ourselves as a sum of what we are inside, not how others see us. Some people are living a lie, where they aren't able to share who they are with the world.

So this little kid is transgendered... girl's stalls are closed and no one needs to know what his/her genitalia consist of. According to the website (below) 1 in 1500 births are intersex of some type, with some of the signs showing up later in life. It's not a male/female issue any longer in our enlightened society... this poor kid believes himself to be the wrong sex and identifies with himself as female. It's opening him up to bullying and harassment to force him to use the boy's bathroom. That's just plain fucking mean.

http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

&feature=player_detailpage

JodyChunder   befriend   ignore   Thu, 28 Feb 2013, 12:08am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 35

It's true...imagine if Martha Jane Canary's parents had stuffed her in a crinoline and forced her to play with a tea set. We wouldn't have had Calamity Jane!

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Thu, 28 Feb 2013, 12:45am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 36

WWLRD
What Would Lou Reid Do?

leo707   befriend   ignore   Thu, 28 Feb 2013, 1:09am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 37

marcus says

I would have to agree that human nature is for privacy while taking care of excretory functions. You go off into the bushes, far away enough probably not only to not be seen, but also not heard. You might have examples from Rome or whatever, but this is not what's deep in our natural instincts and DNA.

One of the most deep and natural things in our DNA is that if we go off alone too far in the bushes, particularly at night, we may get killed and eaten. That is the majority of human history. It was not just the Romans.

Imagine that you are on day three of a backpacking trip deep in the back country. You run across a group of rangers who tell you to be careful because there have been a few bear attacks, they are also hunting a mountain lion who killed a backpacker in the area, and be careful where you sit because this has been a good year for rattle snakes and scorpions and they are everywhere. At dusk is privacy still important enough in your nature that you trudge off into the forest so that you are out of earshot from the others while you dig your cat-hole?

Ever visited a third world country, or a boy scout camp? In my life time I have seen plenty of adults defecating/urinating in public, and that was when there was not threat of danger.

Mr Happygoluckofus   befriend   ignore   Thu, 28 Feb 2013, 1:22am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 38

I saw a Lawyer piss in the middle of the street in Lima Peru, as he was leaving a family function at the in laws house. My BIL from NYC was also on the roof, we were both like, and he's the educated one in the family.

But really it's no big deal there, you drive down the street, and you'll see many people even in the city, with their back to the traffic and stream running down their leg as the street behind them is in gridlock traffic. Us Ameircans seem to be the only ones phased by it. Nobody else gives it a first look even.

Though I can't really blame them, many of the Men's urinal rooms are nothing more than a tiled wall with a drain on the floor and a lip on the floor only about 3 inches high, and about 12 inches from the wall, it almost looks like a narrow tiled shower stall. There isn't even a flush involved you just walk in and piss on the wall. Stinks to high heaven!

leo707   befriend   ignore   Thu, 28 Feb 2013, 1:32am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 39

curious2 says

This is part of how natural selection favors diversity: it's impos