Federal Spending Per Non-Government Worker


By Mish   Follow   Mon, 25 Mar 2013, 6:22pm   502 views   49 comments
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Federal Spending Per Non-Government Worker
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/03/federal-spending-per-non-government.html
Mish

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  1. Bellingham Bill


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    10   10:37pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    murakami says

    So perhaps someone can suggest where all of this new money is going to come from?

    I already did:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP

    Here's corporate taxation added in red:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gSn

    watch it and learn:

  2. Reality


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    11   10:41pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    marcus says

    But it would mean that our short little run of being the great experiment, or the "shining city on the hill" is basically over.

    The great experiment started as an anti-tax movement: a revolt against a 3% stamp tax on bills and documents, and a revolt against tariffs on tea.

    It's over when the European continental style government-run education managed to convince a substantial cross section of the population that the solution to life's problems is not individuals exercising independent choices and finding new creative solutions but should give way to government taxation and let the government bureaucrats spend as they see fit! That's how a free people give rise to a new aristocracy and enslave themselves.

  3. Bellingham Bill


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    12   10:43pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    marcus says

    Another genius with a deep understanding of what going on.

    It's like the 2001-2009 period is a blank for them.

    NONE - ZERO - NIL understanding of the immense fraud that went on when their boys were running things, especially 2003-2006.

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gSo

    Per-worker consumer debt take-on, 2012 dollars.

    We had a great economy during the 2nd Bush term, floated on a sea of ponzi finance fraud.

    That all ended in 2007, and we would have crashed like Greece if it weren't for all the printing and extend-and-pretend.

    This nation is utterly corrupt and the right wing's bullshit is the root cause.

    Point to a problem, and they've made it worse.

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/FDEFX

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/NETEXP

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gSp

    Morons to the last man.

  4. Bellingham Bill


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    13   10:45pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    Reality says

    The great experiment started

    Captain Rightwing Bullshit rides in!

    Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany are kicking our ass economically and socially.

    Your screwed up worldview is incapable of understanding why.

    It's the bullshit, stupid.

    You have no answer to why 5% of this nation -- one out of twenty -- is collecting over one third the national income.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2012

    You think that's good -- Freedom! -- you want to see 1% own it all.

    Moron.

  5. Reality


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    14   10:47pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    That all ended in 2007, and we would have crashed like Greece if it weren't for all the printing and extend-and-pretend.

    Greece has been the poster child of printing and extend-and-pretend. Iceland is where the game was cut short, and they are already recovering.

  6. marcus


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    15   10:48pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Reality says

    the solution to life's problems is not individuals exercising independent choices and finding new creative solutions but should give way to government taxation and let the government bureaucrats spend as they see fit! That's how a free people give rise to a new aristocracy and enslave themselves.

    Then how do you explain the increase in wealth disparity, and all indications of a new aristocracy on the rise, with an ever diminishing middle class, all occurring while tax rates have been dropping for the past 30 years ?

    Coincidence perhaps ?

  7. Reality


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    16   10:49pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    Reality says

    The great experiment started

    Captain Rightwing Bullshit rides in!

    Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany are kicking our ass economically and socially.

    Since when did the "great experiment" of founding the Unites States as "the shining light on the hill" include Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany?

  8. justme


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    17   10:50pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    marcus says

    Be serious Mish. You have a brain that is capable of independent thought. Don't worry, you might pick up some intelligent clients who respect the truth.

    Mish is otherwise pretty reasonable but he is seriously inflicted with right-wing bullshit. Similar to Karl Denninger. Smart guy, but impaired by right-wing "logic". Denninger is too verbose for me, though. He can't seem to get to the point without a load of roundabout prattle worthy of a daytime talkshow.

  9. Reality


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    18   10:52pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    You have no answer to why 5% of this nation -- one out of twenty -- is collecting over one third the national income.

    http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2012

    You think that's good -- Freedom! -- you want to see 1% own it all.

    Moron.

    The answer is quite simple: the fiat money power rigging the game in favor of the insiders at the expense of the rest of the population.

    Inflation: giving money to the insiders;
    Deflation/austerity: taking money from the rest of the us.

    It doesn't take many cycles to impoverish the middle class, and concentrate wealth into the hands of the few.

  10. marcus


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    19   10:52pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Reality says

    Since when did the "great experiment" of founding the Unites States as "the shining light on the hill" include Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany?

    Reality isn't going to respond to BBill's points which were very clear. He can't. He doesn't want to go there.

    Reality says

    t's over when the European continental style government-run education managed to convince a substantial cross section of the population that the solution to life's problems is not individuals exercising independent choices and finding new creative solutions but should give way to government taxation and let the government bureaucrats spend as they see fit! That's how a free people give rise to a new aristocracy and enslave themselves.

    Bellingham Bill says

    Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany are kicking our ass economically and socially.

    Your screwed up worldview is incapable of understanding why.

  11. justme


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    20   10:55pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    Only when we pay for what we spend will we ever be able to get spending under control. This is not rocket science.

    IT'S CALLED PAYING YOUR BILLS !!!

    Right on!! Increase taxes until the wealthy pay the same effective rate as the middle class. Then, when the debt is paid off and the deficit is zero, people will start understanding the cost of wasteful spending, such as medicare giveaways to big pharma and insane and illegal wars.

    There is a timing problem with doing it now because the private sector is so indebted (is it still circa 3.3X GDP?). They should have done it in 1985 and kept it going.

  12. Reality


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    21   10:55pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    Reality says

    Since when did the "great experiment" of founding the Unites States as "the shining light on the hill" include Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany?

    Reality isn't going to respond to BBill's points which were very clear. He can't. He doesn't want to go there.

    You are wrong again. I already responded in a separate post just before yours showed up.

  13. Bellingham Bill


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    22   10:58pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Reality says

    include Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany?

    Prior to 1900 we had half a continent -- the good half -- free for the taking.

    And we did.

    Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany were all filled in 500 years ago, and actually sent many immigrants our way to build out our economy.

    But since they were more socially developed than us, they also have more experience with The Socialism, and have been developing it for 150+ years.

    We didn't have to have The Socialism since we had all that natural wealth to develop, but once the Wild West was tamed, The Socialism started to catch on here.

    It was Populism first, then Progressivism. You might remember Teddy Roosevelt, he saw the need for The Socialism and finished 2nd, ahead of your boy in the 1912 election.

    The Progressive Party platform of 1912 is good reading, I suggest you find it and learn what bullshit problems caused by unrestrained "free-market" richman corporatism the country was facing then.

    WW I came around, and the rise of electro-mechanical wealth creation gave our system another shot in the arm, until it all crashed in 1929-30 due to too much debt expansion and malinvestment.

    The Socialism came back, and stayed for 30-40 years, until that crook Nixon and then Ronnie Raygun started replacing Socialism with borrow & spend Corporatism.

    Meanwhile, since the eurosocialists recovered from Too Much Socialism (and bubble mentaliity), they've been doing very well for themselves and have a lot to teach us about how to order a society such that everyone has a fair shot to develop and remain productive members of it (without going $100,000+ into debt).

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TCMDODNS

    FAIL

    http://current.com/community/94027080_worlds-happiest-countries-most-are-borderline-socialist-countrys.htm

  14. marcus


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    23   10:59pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Reality says

    You are wrong again. I already responded in a separate post just before yours showed up.

    Yes. And you aren't completely wrong there. But how do you reconcile these ?
    Reality says

    t's over when the European continental style government-run education managed to convince a substantial cross section of the population that the solution to life's problems is not individuals exercising independent choices and finding new creative solutions but should give way to government taxation and let the government bureaucrats spend as they see fit! That's how a free people give rise to a new aristocracy and enslave themselves.

    Bellingham Bill says

    Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Germany are kicking our ass economically and socially.

    Your screwed up worldview is incapable of understanding why.

  15. Reality


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    24   11:07pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill,

    Is this the new Socialist Manifesto?

    It would be just as wrong-headed as every socialist experiment before. At least this time you are recognizing "Too Much Socialism" is a bad thing.

    In any case, Sweden is still enjoying the benefit of market-oriented reforms since they scaled back on socialism (similar to the Eastern bloc).

    Norway is living off oil wealth in the North Sea, for a country that has less population than a single large city in the US, that's a lot of money per head.

    Denmark is enjoying tight economic coupling with Germany, which is benefiting from the liberalization of former East Germany.

    The only benefit of socialism seems to be like a wild fire that burns down everything, so the generation growing up after the disaster can have more rapid economic growth.

  16. Bellingham Bill


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    25   11:08pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    justme says

    There is a timing problem with doing it now because the private sector is so indebted (is it still circa 3.3X GDP

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gSr

    shows we are about halfway through the private deleveraging process.

    Unfortunately:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gSs

    the red line shows we're just replacing gov't debt for private debt take-on.

    We want to have our cake and eat it too, just like the Japanese.

    Unlike the Japanese, we also have a horrendous NIIP and trade deficit.

    (Japan is $3T in the black while we're $3T in the hole, NIIP-wise, and their per-capita trade deficit is tens of dollars a month while ours is hundreds).

    I think we really need to close our trade deficit, and if anyone has a better idea other than outprinting the rest of the world I'm all ears.

  17. Reality


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    26   11:11pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    marcus says

    Yes. And you aren't completely wrong there. But how do you reconcile these ?

    Because the typical socialists praising Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany now are just as silly as those who praised:

    Soviet Union in the 1920's,
    Italian Fascist "third way" in the late 1920's,
    Germany in the 1930's,
    Japan in the 1980's,
    Sweden in the 1980's,
    China more recently

    They just can't pass up an opportunity praising transient central-planning countries burning candle from both ends, and history proves them wrong every single time!

  18. Bellingham Bill


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    27   11:12pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Reality says

    since they scaled back on socialism (similar to the Eastern bloc).

    bullshit.

    Norway could be a shithole like the mideast or Alberta, but it is not. Socialism is working well there, and while their $15k/capita wealth inflow from oil is a nice tailwind, we actually have a similar scale of natural wealth, we just don't "share" the rents from it it like they do.

    Instead, we've let a very long list of rich shitheads privitise the public's wealth, from Rockefeller on down.

    Denmark is enjoying tight economic coupling with Germany, which is benefiting from the liberalization of former East Germany.

    LOL. East Germany was an economic basket case and has held Germany back.

    You do not understand anything other than your pinched worldview.

    Whatever. Arguing on the internet isn't going to change anything, people are going to have to learn the hard way.

  19. Reality


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    28   11:18pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Bellingham Bill says

    while their $15k/capita wealth inflow from oil is a nice tailwind, we actually have a similar scale of natural wealth, we just don't "share" the rents from it it like they do.

    Norwegian oil export account for almost 50% of total export, and more than 20% of total GDP. What natural resource export from the US is comparable to that?

    Bellingham Bill says

    LOL. East Germany was an economic basket case and has held Germany back.

    You do not understand anything other than your pinched worldview.

    Laugh at yourself in the mirror please. The investment opportunity in what used to be East Germany is what has been driving German economy in recent years. It's no different from the rapid economic growth in all those former Eastern Bloc countries that had previously been basket cases. Just look at those brand new VW, Mercedes and BMW factories around Leipzig; it's similar to GM investing in China more than a decade ago.

  20. Vicente


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    29   11:20pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Reality says

    The great experiment started as an anti-tax movement: a revolt against a 3% stamp tax on bills and documents, and a revolt against tariffs on tea.

    Revisionist history.

    The "Boston Tea Party" wasn't about the tax itself, it was about a corporation that had evaded the tax and thus had an unfair advantange over domestic producers. Whose tea were the original Tea Partiers throwing in the harbor? Not random domestic tea, it was specifically product of the British East India Company.

    Generally speaking a lot of American Revolutionaries weren't anti-tax nutters like Rand Paul & Co. They were against being always on the losing end of the bargain as mere "colonists" with no representation meanwhile favored British corporations got all the influence and paid little or nothing.

  21. Reality


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    30   11:28pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Vicente says

    The "Boston Tea Party" wasn't about the tax itself, it was about a corporation that had evaded the tax and thus had an unfair advantange over domestic producers.

    Is this a joke? What domestic tea producer was there?

    Whose Tea were the original Tea Partiers throwing in the harbor? Not random domestic tea, it was specifically product of the British East India Company.

    BEIC had a government license to ship tea from India and China as a government sanctioned monopoly. Their primary competition in the market place were the smugglers who also shipped tea from India and China.

    Generally speaking a lot of American Revolutionaries weren't anti-tax nutters like Rand Paul & Co. They were against being always on the losing end of the bargain as mere "colonists" with no representation meanwhile favored British corporations got all the influence and paid virtually nothing. It was about fairness.

    Talk about revisionism. "No taxation without representation" was used as a slogan, but British offer to let colonials have representation was rejected. The colonials just didn't feel like to be taxed to pay for an empire.

  22. marcus


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    31   11:31pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    When I imagine a future where things are economically and socially as good and as sustainable as they possibly can be, it so obviously includes a fair amount of what often gets labelled as socialism.

    That is substantial government involvement in domains where private profit motive simply don't belong. This includes public safety, regulating business, local public services, the military and coast guard, public education, yes health care, and providing safety nets for those who are simply unable to adequately take care of themselves.

    This isn't really socialism, but if we call it that, then we know that some mix of this with free enterprise market based economics is best.

    Even the right wingers must know that this is true and inevitable. And true conservatives also know that crony capitalism is part of what plagues both political parties, but more so the right wing.

  23. thomaswong.1986


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    32   11:33pm Mon 25 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Vicente says

    Revisionist history.

    The "Boston Tea Party" wasn't about the tax itself, it

    It was a tax to pay for the French Indian War.. the rest of what you said was rubbish anti-corp nonsense. the tax was levied on the US colonist without their say on the matter. The tax was not levied on the British back home.

  24. Reality


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    33   7:47am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    When I imagine a future where things are economically and socially as good and as sustainable as they possibly can be, it so obviously includes a fair amount of what often gets labelled as socialism.

    Then it will never get there to begin with, and socialism will destroy what economic capital the society has accummulated in previous generations. That has happened every time Socialism is attempted. What's that Einstein saying? Insanity is repeatedly attempting that which has failed and hope the next time will be different.

    This topic is not at all new. Fedric Bastiat addressed the issue over a century and half ago, on the technology progress bringing higher standards living to all vs. the government monopolistic rent seekers trying to seize the increased productivity for their own exclusive benefit, in the name of "Socialism." Here is an interesting article on the subject:

    http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/tgif-socializing-wealth/

  25. mell


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    34   8:06am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Germany is less socialistic than the US these days in a couple of areas, the housing market is one of them. No government guaranteed bullshit loans, no Fannie or Freddie or FHA.

  26. david1


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    35   8:33am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    mell says

    Germany is less socialistic than the US

    None that count.

    Germans understand that taxes are a burden on those people whose incomes generate prosperity.

    We all know that. They, however, have less of a problem determining which incomes generate properity and which incomes generate nothing but additional rents.

    The Germans also kick our ass in the understanding that the economic and political goal should be a solid level of social security BALANCED with the highest possible economic prosperity.

    To put it another way, if the economic prosperity we currently have in the US is maximized at our current level of social security, to sacrifice social security for further economic prosperity is not progress.

    One cancels the other.

  27. mell


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    36   8:43am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    david1 says

    To put it another way, if the economic prosperity we currently have in the US is maximized at our current level of social security, to sacrifice social security for further economic prosperity is not progress.

    One cancels the other.

    Sure, but more importantly all these programs are well funded in the sense that everybody understands and agrees to pay in from day one and if costs rise cuts will be made, even for seniors and pension growth is frozen (hence you mentioned BALANCED). So it's a zero sum game and only the money collected can be spent. It matters that you have all these fraudulent get rich quick schemes in the US because here the money will be extracted beforehand by private entities and the resulting losses will be socialized for the public. The housing market is a prime example.

  28. errc


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    37   8:45am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    know that crony capitalism is part of what plagues both political parties, but more so the right wing.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL

  29. mell


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    38   8:49am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    errc says

    know that crony capitalism is part of what plagues both political parties, but more so the right wing.

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL

    Yes and it's no different than socialism except for the money doesn't only go to the one party, but to the two parties plus bankstas and other special interest corporations, so they need more ;)

  30. marcus


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    39   11:02am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    mell says

    money doesn't only go to the one party, but to the two parties plus bankstas and other special interest corporations, so they need more ;)

    But if you looked at the list of top donors to both parties for last years Presidential
    elections, the banks and investment banks were at the top of Romney's list. They wanted him to win bad.

    http://www.altheadlines.com/cartoons-obama-romney-obamney-top-2012-campaign-contributors/

  31. murakami


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    40   11:22am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    marcus says

    murakami says

    Oh wait, the Obama printing presses.

    Another genius with a deep understanding of what's going on.

    Wake up and smell the oil.

  32. marcus


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    41   11:28am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Reality says

    Then it will never get there to begin with, and socialism will destroy what economic capital the society has accummulated in previous generations. That has happened every time Socialism is attempted.

    You're talking about some lame abstraction. Since this is part of what you were responding to, I'll have to assume that this is what you mean by socialism;

    marcus says

    That is substantial government involvement in domains where private profit motive simply don't belong. This includes public safety, regulating business, local public services, the military and coast guard, public education, yes health care, and providing safety nets for those who are simply unable to adequately take care of themselves.

    Your lame excuse for an argument is that every time it's been tried it failed. Actually every empire has failed. Old (big) money survives because it transcends borders and goverments.

    I find the idea that somehow money growing in the cayman islands, to be trust funds for elite future generations of non working rent seekers, is somehow a necessary backbone of our economy to be laughable.

    How is it that when "starve the beast" has been practiced for decades by those who would undo FDRs terrible "socialism" and when taxes are as low as they've been since right after the great depression, rightwing ideologues such as yourself think talk of any tax increase is a slippery slope.

    Any tax increase is going to lead to total theft of everything from the rich, leaving no capital whatsoever to be invested in the future of our economy.

    THis such total BS. There is literally too much money out there looking to be invested. And thet's even if you don't count the so called "carry trade."

    Reality says

    socialism will destroy what economic capital the society has accummulated in previous generations. That has happened every time Socialism is attempted.

  33. Bellingham Bill


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    42   11:32am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    Democrats are (on the whole) a center-right party and Republicans -- of the Rep Ryan and Senator Paul stripes -- are far right.

    Both have been fucking over us since the 1980s to one degree or the other.

    The Dems by mostly failing to oppose the insanity of the Republicans -- NAFTA, MFH with China, the trade deficit, deregulation of 1990s -- Gramm (R) Leach (R) Bliley (R) -- the two mideast wars that have cost us $1.4T in direct costs thus far:

    http://costofwar.com/

    but we have yet to raise any new taxes to pay for.

    DOD budget / personal income has risen from 4% in 1999 to 6% now:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gTg

    but we didn't raise tax rates 2% to pay for that, either.

    I think the trade deficit is the biggest bipartisan failure thus far. Liberals were in no position to block the conservatives' (both R and D) desire to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, so we can't really blame that on liberals.

    I think things here are irreversibly fucked now, since our politics are irreversibly fucked.

    Too much bullshit, nobody understands anything, just people repeating conservative bullshit to each other over and over.

  34. Bellingham Bill


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    43   11:35am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike  

    "Any tax increase is going to lead to total theft of everything from the rich, leaving no capital whatsoever to be invested in the future of our economy."

    LOL. Money is never destroyed. It just changes hands.

    More money on the bottom means more opportunity for the rich to take it back.

    That's why redistribution works, and why the US has been borrowing so much money since the 1980s, to keep our increasingly unbalanced system functioning.

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gTh

    blue is real debt

    red is Gini

    The rich have a million ways to beat money out of the poors.

    The poors only have two ways to beat money out of the rich, and one of them is a felony.

  35. Bellingham Bill


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    44   11:39am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  
  36. marcus


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    45   11:56am Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Bellingham Bill says

    Democrats are (on the whole) a center-right party and Republicans -- of the Rep Ryan and Senator Paul stripes -- are far right.

    Bellingham Bill says

    I think things here are irreversibly fucked now, since our politics are irreversibly fucked.

    I think that being under-taxed and running deficits, supports the right and prevents power from shifting to and being financed by the left.

    If we were to pay for everything we spend, with most of that payment coming directly from the top 15% of incomes, then tough choices would have to be made on where to cut spending. Unpopular choices.

    Since we have a few shreds of democracy left, this would lead to democrats being back in power (controlling congress for a long term again) and it would strengthen the left side in politics. You could call this the ROmney's 47% effect.

    It's an over simplification, but I guess my bottom line is that I agree about how totally fucked our politics is.

    Bellingham Bill says

    More money on the bottom means more opportunity for the rich to take it back.

    Maybe there's a glimmer of hope there, that corporations will push the pendulum back when things have gotten so bad in our domestic economy that even most corporations see the need for redistribution through the tax code. (not the BS tax reform we hear about from the right these days).

  37. Bellingham Bill


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    46   12:26pm Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gTv

    per capita (working-age) defense expense, 2005 dollars

  38. Bellingham Bill


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    47   12:31pm Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    marcus says

    but I guess my bottom line is that I agree about how totally fucked our politics is.

    30-40% of the population buy into the bullshit Captain Liberty here is spewing.

    probably 60% think we can't afford to cut defense spending

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/146114/americans-remain-divided-defense-spending.aspx

    probably nobody can name the current trade deficit within $500 billion dollars -- I didn't hear the topic come up once in the debates last year.

    I don't know what exactly the plutocrats' game here is now. I suspect they're happy with big-ass inflation now. Inflation doesn't hurt them since their hedged against it, and shit like food and energy is minimal in their budgets.

  39. Vicente


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    48   12:46pm Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Reality says

    Is this a joke? What domestic tea producer was there?

    Is this a joke?

    Americans had Labrador Tea as an alternative. Dutch tea was also commonly smuggled in. Some smugglers were among the group tossing things overboard.

    Americans were not loathe to tax tea. One of the acts of the 1st Congress was a 1789 tax of 6c to 20c per pound, although DOUBLE that from foreign flagged vessels. They were not averse to tariffs to protect domestic merchants. Taxes on tea accounted for a significant percentage of Federal revenue for almost a century.

    Only someone with an ADHD grasp of American history would ascribe the Boston Tea Party as being about American revulsion to the entire concept of taxation.

  40. Bellingham Bill


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    49   1:18pm Tue 26 Mar 2013   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (2)   Dislike (1)  

    A large part of the bullshit is not understanding that this is no longer the 18th century, and that the 19th century is not that great a place to return to for that matter.

    I don't think the eurosocialists have all the answers -- I really think they could and should raise more taxes from ground rents and much less from actual entrepreneurial activity -- but the bottom line is minarchists like Mish and Captain Freedom here don't really understand how fucked this country is at all.

    They think we should cut government spending $1T/yr and nobody would feel anything, since all that money is just being wasted or whatever.

    What they don't understand is that all government spending is somebody's paycheck somewhere.

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gTA

    is real (2012 dollars) per-working-age person Fed spending.

    $28,000 per-worker is an insane amount to spend, but note their boy raised it from $20k to $24k, and much of Obama's spending has been stabilizers to soften the post Bush-Boom crash.

    And also note the drop since 2010.

    Zooming in on 1980-now, and adding annual consumer debt takeon (red):

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gTC

    we can really see the dual frauds of the Bush Boom -- the rise in per-capita government spending and also the rise in per-capita borrowing that we all did to get out of the "jobless recovery" of 2002-2003.

    We see in that chart that gov't spending rose $4000/yr per capita while per-capita borrowing fell $16,000/yr!

    We are so fucked.

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