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Generation Poor: Gen X and Millennials losing ground


By Dan8267   Follow   Mon, 25 Mar 2013, 1:50pm PDT   1,802 views   57 comments   Watch (2)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (3)   Dislike (1)  

http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/03/22/generation-poor/

So if Gen X and the Millennials are so poor, how will they buy up all the houses?

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lostand confused   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 8:29am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 18

Bellingham Bill says

the stupid thing is that smokers probably save us all money in the long run by
offing themselves sooner

Well then there is secon hand smoke.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 8:33am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 19

Bellingham Bill says

the stupid thing is that smokers probably save us all money in the long run by offing themselves sooner.

The tobacco companies tried to make that argument in defending against the multi-state litigation. The math didn't support them. Although smokers on average die sooner, they tend to use so much more medical spending that it offsets any pension and Social Security savings.

Regarding California's insurance exchange, it was a regulatory choice in setting up the exchange, I'll try to find a record of it for you.

zzyzzx   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 8:41am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 20

bgamall4 says

While there is a hint of truth there Tony, it isn't the fault of the boomers that we have globalization pushing down wages, while the 1 percent are pushing up the price of houses.

epitaph   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 8:42am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 21

LOL what trades are hiring these days? The skilled labor unions around here have dropped their fees 85% in hopes to get new recruits, but nobody is joining because there is little work to be had and the stuff that is available is taken by the most senior tradesmen.

The problem is that there is little opportunity right now and not everybody can be an entrepreneur.

edvard2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 8:44am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 22

Captain,
I can appreciate your stories. I for one am GLAD I too have had a lot of experiences like those. For example when I was in high school, college, and a few years out of college I did amongst other things:

1: worked as a bus boy at a greasy hole in the wall. Some of the more flattering jobs included using a large wet vac to vacuum out grease collected in the large grease trap connected to the commercial dishwasher, using industrial stainless steel scrubbers to clean burnt-on beans from 5 gallon pots, and wrapping untold 1000's of baked potatoes.

2: Worked at a large lawn and garden shop and the primary job was loading things into people's cars and trucks. Wouldn't you know a top-seller was cow manure? I literally smelled like crap after every single work day. No wonder I had no girlfriends.

3: Working in a huge warehouse that sold commercial cleaning supplies which seemed to be an employer of somewhat scary people.

4: Mixed paint and stain for a contractor supply place. On occasion the lids would come off in the shaker and more than once I got totally soaked in pink, purple, blue, or yellow paint.

5: Mowed people's lawns in 90+ degree heat

6: Loaded Christmas trees when its 15 degrees at night

7: Fixed windows and doors, replacing the glass. I had a huge wall mounted glass pane cutter that was in fairly bad shape. Every once in awhile the glass being cut would shatter. I have scars up and down my arms to prove it.

For the past 10 years or so I've had good jobs that pay well. If I ever have a not so great day, all I think about is that I could still be vacuuming grease from grease traps or mixing paint for a living still. Having those experiences made me REALLY appreciate what I've got now and honestly, I feel those experiences are what made me bust my ass in the first place and learn to appreciate the value of the dollar.

curious2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 8:50am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 23

Bellingham Bill says

AB 2244 was going to strip tobacco rating but that provision was apparently amended out of it.

Apparently AB X1 2 is the bill that's going to implement PPACA here.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billVotesClient.xhtml

Here are two references to "tobacco ratings not being included" in California rating, with a union rep (whose organization styles itself as a consumer group, nothing in this sector is what it claims to be) saying how wonderful it is:

http://www.californiahealthline.org/features/2013/individual-market-reforms-called-historic.aspx

http://blogs.kqed.org/stateofhealth/2013/02/28/health-care-overhauls-consumer-protections-pass-california-legislature/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=health-care-overhauls-consumer-protections-pass-california-legislature

I suppose it ain't over til it's over, but the fix appears to be in. The priority is to maximize spending, and since smokers tend to be heavy users of the medical system, including them is a top priority. It creates jobs; ignore the costs and just focus on the subsidies we'll get via DC. It's the CAFO Matrix economy: inflate and intubate, every patient is a revenue center.

errc   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 8:57am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 24

I'm (HS) class of 99, and I made sure to wack thru my obligations to the state as quick as possible, so that by the time I was a senior, I had all my credits and they let me sign out at lunch, and go work at a pizza shop. I was 18 in 99, making 12$ an hour managing day shifts at a local pizza chain. I was just telling my gf last night, how that would translate to about 30$ an hour today. Seeing as how its all relative, and my 1999 dollars stretched about 4x further then these worthless bubble 2013 dollars

I know when I went bankrupt in 2004, I couldn't discharge student loans, so I made sure to pay them off with personal loans and credit cards first

leo707   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 9:27am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 25

edvard2 says

1: worked as a bus boy at a greasy hole in the wall. Some of the more flattering jobs included using a large wet vac to vacuum out grease collected in the large grease trap connected to the commercial dishwasher, using industrial stainless steel scrubbers to clean burnt-on beans from 5 gallon pots, and wrapping untold 1000's of baked potatoes.

Sounds like you had it easy. At the greasy hole I worked at we had to clean the bathrooms which somehow occasionally got shit sprayed on the walls. Another bus boy I worked with had to clean up after a customer splashed blood all over the table while in the throes of some sort of seizure.

edvard2 says

2: Worked at a large lawn and garden shop...I literally smelled like crap after every single work day. No wonder I had no girlfriends.

You should have stuck with the greasy hole. Nothing like the romance of a young waitress and busboy left to close up together, and a fridge full of beer...

edvard2 says

6: Loaded Christmas trees when its 15 degrees at night

Hey! I worked at a Christmas tree lot also. At least there you spend 6-8 weeks smelling like Christmas. Even after I stopped working there, years late my rain gear still smelled like pine.

errc   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 9:38am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 26

My favorite kind of weed is the piny smelling outdoors that always smells like christmas trees. I miss that stuff

mell   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 9:49am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 27

bgamall4 says

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

Lazy fucks. Don't they know they're supposed to buy the boomers overpriced shacks for 10x what they paid for them so they can retire to live in Caligulan splendor after lifetimes of indolence and half-hearted effort?

While there is a hint of truth there Tony, it isn't the fault of the boomers that we have globalization pushing down wages, while the 1 percent are pushing up the price of houses.

I think they are at least complicit - alas they voted for all those policies and keep piling on debt for the future generations. Don't tell me they don't know about the 1% ?

leo707   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 10:23am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 28

mell says

I think they are at least complicit - alas they voted for all those policies and keep piling on debt for the future generations. Don't tell me they don't know about the 1% ?

During the baby-boomers impressionable years the 1% was not near what it is today. I think that there was a degree of naivete and wishful thinking as they voted to give the lion share of their money to the 1%.

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 10:26am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 29

mell says

and keep piling on debt for the future generations

this is bullshit that sounds good but is not accurate.

The right always complains about the 47% who pay no taxes, so you can't have it both ways. Either half this country doesn't pay any taxes and thus has no future tax burden to pay, or they do.

The rich have all the money now so they can pay all the taxes.

Cutting corporate profits down to 2002 levels would eliminate the deficit completely.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/

Funny we don't talk about doing that . . .

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 10:30am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 30

errc says

and my 1999 dollars stretched about 4x further then these worthless bubble 2013 dollars

bullshit

$1 now is worth $1.40 of 1999 dollars.

What rents for $2000 now didn't rent for $500 in 1999, LOL.

We saw more inflation during the Bush Boom than after, btw.

All that money hitting the middle class boosted prices a lot!

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=gTX

errc   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 10:38am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 31

You're correct, it is bullshit

Bullshit that 1 gallon of pure gasoline cost me .80 cents in 1999, where as 1 gallon of E10 shitty gas costs 4$ in 2013. Adjusting dollars for inflation will sure. Blur your vision

curious2   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 10:45am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (3)   Dislike     Comment 32

Oil went from less than $10/bbl in the 1990s to the current $100/bbl, partly because of policy changes during the Clinton and W administrations.

CPI reflects a mix of goods and services including housing, but your personal CPI depends on what you buy.

Also CPI is manipulated by the Federal government generally to understate inflation, it has been adjusted more than a dozen times in recent years and every adjustment reduces the headline rate. For example, a TV has more scan lines now so it's supposedly worth more and the CPI price is adjusted down to reflect the cost per scan line. Nevermind that most people didn't upgrade to DTV until analog got discontinued, and CPI prices are never adjusted up, for example if your favorite show gets cancelled they don't say the TV is worth less or adjust for the fact you're paying a higher price per show you want to see. Adjustments are always down, to reduce the official inflation rate.

zzyzzx   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 11:00am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 33

edvard2 says

Captain,

I can appreciate your stories. I for one am GLAD I too have had a lot of experiences like those. For example when I was in high school, college, and a few years out of college I did amongst other things:

At one point, I had 3 jobs. One of them was picking up trash at the stadium after events. It actually paid decent, presumably because they had trouble getting people to do it, and it helped if you had a certain mentality.

mell   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 11:02am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 34

Bellingham Bill says

mell says

and keep piling on debt for the future generations

this is bullshit that sounds good but is not accurate.

The right always complains about the 47% who pay no taxes, so you can't have it both ways. Either half this country doesn't pay any taxes and thus has no future tax burden to pay, or they do.

The rich have all the money now so they can pay all the taxes.

Cutting corporate profits down to 2002 levels would eliminate the deficit completely.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CP/

Funny we don't talk about doing that . . .

It's not bullshit, it is very REAL until it's solved until then everything else is bullshit. Who cares how we got there - everybody has their own solution and opinion. But the debt that keeps piling on just IS - simple math you cannot tamper with. Fine, go ahead and implement the grand plan to make the rich pay for all the debt. I'm not ultra rich so I don't care but my bet is you won't find the money you are looking for, at least not in those amounts and the debt will keep ticking away. But it would be great if you could solve it, I'd even vote you in for president ;)

Ceffer   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 11:10am PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 35

curious2 says

Ceffer says

bankrupt on student loans

Check with Iwog about that - I think he'll say bankruptcy doesn't extinguish student loans.

Nothing that a little benign, liberal "Obama legislation" can't fix. They'll all go bankrupt/renegotiate like lemmings if you give them the opportunity.

After all, education should be free, it's only right. Bailing out on loans is good life training for the young 'uns! Along with bashing the boomers brains in with bricks for their crimes, kind of like China's Red Guard.

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 11:16am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 36

mell says

I'm not ultra rich so I don't care but my bet is you won't find the money you are looking for

http://ecolocalizer.com/2011/04/02/top-five-percent-in-u-s-own-nearly-23-of-everything/

errc says

Bullshit that 1 gallon of pure gasoline cost me .80 cents in 1999, where as 1 gallon of E10 shitty gas costs 4$ in 2013.

1999 was the anomaly and it's total BS argumentation to compare then to now.

We hadn't handed over $3T of our money to China then:

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html

shows total trade deficit of the 1990s with China was $342B, just 2012 alone was $315B!

shows China has DOUBLED their oil consumption since 1998.

Asia had just imploded with their financial crises, reducing their demand,

Non-OPEC was flooding the market with production increases:

Nominal incomes haven't gone up 4X since 1999 so of course the price level hasn't expanded 4X since then.

Gasoline is actually a small household expense in the scheme of things. Households pay $4000/yr on gasoline, out of a $50,000 total income.

Housing is much more than that.

you don't want to pay for oil, switch to natgas, LOL

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GASPRICE

so much for your inflation thesis

zzyzzx   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 11:22am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 37

epitaph says

The skilled labor unions around here have dropped their fees 85% in hopes to get new recruits, but nobody is joining because there is little work to be had and the stuff that is available is taken by the most senior tradesmen.

That's because there is little work to be had for unionized labor, and the most senior members get to bump the junior members.

mell   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 11:38am PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 38

Bellingham Bill says

mell says

I'm not ultra rich so I don't care but my bet is you won't find the money you are looking for

http://ecolocalizer.com/2011/04/02/top-five-percent-in-u-s-own-nearly-23-of-everything/

Yeah, I wasn't arguing about that, but will it be enough to plug the deficit? What if they moved a lot of it out of the US, how to collect? Lots of problems that don't get resolved without spending cuts.

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 12:02pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 39

mell says

What if they moved a lot of it out of the US, how to collect?

tax their US operations.

mell says

Lots of problems that don't get resolved without spending cuts.

propose your cuts, LOL

I'd cut $400B from the DOD, but that's a non-starter.

Much easier politically to cut 10% from social security payouts in 2040.

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/25/three-reasons-for-social-security-to-use-chained-cpi/

mell   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 12:08pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 40

Bellingham Bill says

mell says

What if they moved a lot of it out of the US, how to collect?

tax their US operations.

mell says

Lots of problems that don't get resolved without spending cuts.

propose your cuts, LOL

I'd cut $400B from the DOD, but that's a non-starter.

Much easier politically to cut 10% from social security payouts in 2040.

http://blog.heritage.org/2013/03/25/three-reasons-for-social-security-to-use-chained-cpi/

Yeah, I'd start with the DOD as well. I am just not sure that it will be that easy to get to the money with globalized operations. Then you are left with capital controls which will cause a flight to other countries.

Ironman   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 12:37pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (2)     Comment 41

curious2 says

Ceffer says

bankrupt on student loans

Check with Iwog about that - I think he'll say bankruptcy doesn't extinguish student loans.

Student loan write-offs hit $3 billion in first two months of year
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-usa-studentloans-delinquency-idUSBRE92O11K20130325?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews

(Reuters) - Banks wrote off $3 billion of student loan debt in the first two months of 2013, up more than 36 percent from the year-ago period, as many graduates remain jobless, underemployed or cash-strapped in a slow U.S. economic recovery, an Equifax study showed.

"Delinquencies have spiked in the last eight years, with about 17 percent of the nearly 40 million student loan borrowers at least 90 days past due on their repayments, a February report from the New York Federal Reserve Bank showed."

.......I don't think you'll see much house buying by this group for a looonnnggg time.....

Bellingham Bill   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 12:48pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 42

mell says

Then you are left with capital controls which will cause a flight to other countries.

capital is not some magical essence that can be bottled and shipped.

capital is NOT money.

the core problem is that nobody knows what wealth really is -- that which satisfies our needs and wants (what I call 'direct wealth') or that which assists in the production of this wealth (what I call 'indirect wealth' i.e. capital).

Rich people want to leave, fine. They can take all the USDs they want. We'll print more.

The stuff stays here.

Note that in my preferred tax regime I'd tax resource production and ground rents first and most. It's tough hiding those from the taxman, and while global capital can sulk about paying high royalties on resource extraction, I don't see them boycotting Norway all that much.

It helps that StatOil is there to pick up the slack should the multinationals try any funny stuff though.

http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/08/15/Norway-Vs-Canada/

bgamall4   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 2:06pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 43

CaptainShuddup says

Even when I was 18 slinging carpet, with my own van and tools, I knew I was way ahead of my peers,

Carpet laying is one of the most thankless jobs ever conceived. But, they used to pay well. Maybe still do.

bgamall4   befriend   ignore   Tue, 26 Mar 2013, 2:09pm PDT   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 44

zzyzzx says

bgamall4 says

While there is a hint of truth there Tony, it isn't the fault of the boomers that we have globalization pushing down wages, while the 1 percent are pushing up the price of houses.

Hey ZZ, you have fallen for the banksters' game. They want old and young to hate each other. That means they aren't hating the banksters.

And banks