Property Forum
| Date | User | Source (optional) | BR | Asking Price or Rent | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2010 Feb 3rd | Patrick | http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/reb/1585... | 2 | $702,900 | |
| 2010 Mar 12th | Patrick | http://www.redfin.com/CA/Capitola/408-El... | 2 | $702,900 | |
| 2010 Mar 31st | Patrick | http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/reb/1670... | 2 | $702,900 |
45 comments on “408 El Salto Dr, Capitola, CA 95010”
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Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
Posted for reader F:
There’s a two bedroom, one bathroom, single garage, 878 sq ft house on a 3,267 sq ft lot around the corner from me in Capitola, CA that is for sale. Asking price is $899,500. No ocean view or anything remarkable for that matter, but “it’s on Depot Hill, which traditionally supports these valuations” according to the open house dude when I strolled by the other day to sample the Kool Aid. I said to him “That’s $1,000 / sq ft - like Manhattan.” His response “Well, I’m not really up on the New York real estate market.” Here’s the sale history.
MLS: 80904836
10/22/2003 $704,000 Grant Deed Resale Matiasevich, Bradford D Martin, Tina V 1995 Trust 167894135
5/31/2001 $535,000 Grant Deed Resale Gianelli, Joseph W Matiasevich, Bradford D 167894375
11/17/1997 $330,000 Grant Deed Resale Edward Trust Gianelli, Joseph W 167893061
If it’s true that we’re back to 2003 levels, they’re asking almost $200k too much. If it’s true that we’re back to 2001 levels (or will be shortly), they need to drop the price by 40%…
Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 6
The worst kind of person is someone who gained wealth by doing nothing and has convinced themself that what they did was worth all of the money and then had the tap shut off. Realtors have been making way too much for too long for doing essentially nothing. Now that the bottom has dropped out they will do anything to including lie to you to bring back their unsustainable life style. As long as they work on a commision they will do whatever they have to to get you into the house at the highest price possible. Essentially, they will do whatever it takes to seperate you from your money. More is yet to come just sit on your hands while the get rich quick crowd buys up these early crisis homes. A couple years from now buy at an even greater bargain.
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 3
On the surface, it seems overpriced, and it may very well be…
But that is an awfully nice little neighborhood, and I’d expect it to be among the last to crash. So what I’d wonder more about is other recent sales in Depot Hill and if they support 2003, the asking, or an in-between price. I’ld bet the latter myself.
I do agree of course that the bargains are only going to get better for the immediate future.
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 2
One thing is for sure, there is no abundance of six-figure salaries in Capitola. So whoever can choose to live in this home will need to have some independent wealth.
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 1
Comments: 21
Patrick,
That area of Santa Cruz County along with anythign near West Cliff Drive is the pinnacle of fortress areas. Depot Hill is as about as expensive as it gets anywhere in the country. The houses are all old, but in an adorable neighborhood above one of the cutest beach communities on the West Coast.
Check out the sales…
1997 - $330k - expensive for a 2 bedroom, but great area so the price seems reasonable. It is also the bottom of the last down-turn in CA.
2001 -$535k - wow… 200k profit in 4 years! In May of 2001, there were still lots and lots of internet millionaires living off the dot com bubbles teat. How much you wanna bet the new owner cashed in some stock and paid cash?
2003 -$704k - 2 more years and $100k+!! Housing Bubble on its way to the top. I bet if they sold in 2006 they would have got almost a million for this place.
We are heading back down still of course so I bet the price this will ultimately be worth is the ‘97 price, $330k, adjusted for inflation. Probably around $400k… The seller has got to be praying someone that is flush with cash wants to waste $900k on a cute beach home. They are still out there (though I wish they would all go away) and that is why this RE agent thinks they can get it too.
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Comments: 53
Speaking for a diff area that ive been following….seeing prices that once sold for 3x the now asking, and knowing that the greater many of them were indeed NEVER worth the high price paid for them, during the ‘boom’, I am still stunned that anyone would LEND on these places for the boom price.
Its not even the buyer buying them, imo it was more WhoTF was the seller
thinking the place was worth that…..Or the bank who lent that much.
Ive been a GC before…I have some knowledge of land and construction costs. Values.
Im seeing 350-400k boom prices on RE that is worth 250k.
IN A GOOD YEAR.
Now I see why the appraisers were so involved.
Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 2
Disclosure: I’m not a RE agent and I think like the fact that they make 4-6% on the sale of an average home is too much.
Clearly the price is grasping for straws but in reality the agent, in this market would rather price the unit to sell before he starves his family and goes into foreclosure on his own home. There’s many a deluded homeowner out there that just doesn’t quite get it yet and is telling the RE agent what to list at. It’s all part of the slow death process let it happen and wait for the bottom in 2011-12
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 2
Comments: 53
I mentioned the ‘third wave’ looming to a realtor today, asking why some of the silly prices arent lowered for sales before….the next wave.
I was told the banks prefer to wait it out til they get their price.
Ok. You do that.
…tho Im not sure who they will sell to as unemployment rises.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
I am familiar with the area but not with this particular property. Maybe it has been remodeled since the last sale? I notice that it is not on the MLS any more.
On Redfin, I see that in the past 6 months 10 properties sold on Depot Hill. One of them only had an ocean view (100 Oakland Ave #000001, sold for $4mm)
On average these 10 properties sold for $960 / squarefoot. Lowest price was $1.2mm and highest was $5.5mm.
That makes the original listing sound reasonable and actually - in absolute terms - a steal at $900k.
Maybe it’s off the MLS because it sold and it has not recorded yet.
-Peter
Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 0
Comments: 117
330K x 10 years of inflation gets you to 441K.
One should be careful about buying “next to the waters or ocean view” in Santa Cruz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys3_9RG1CIs
If you saw Santa Cruz storms from 1988-1990 you would think twice about paying $1000/sq ft.
But excellent surf spots… i did my share back in the day at steamers and at the hook.
Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 0
Comments: 117
This is too funny! Its been true for decades… I guess you cant say the UCSC is a contributing factor to higher prices.
UCSC named the worst university in the US
http://www.michnews.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/403/18049
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
The original property was 878 sq ft house on a 3,267 sq ft listed for $899,500 (and did not sell).
Right now one around the corner is pending.
202 OAKLAND AV, Capitola, CA 95010 Offered at: $640,000 — Pending W/O Release (Show)
Bedrooms: 2
Bathrooms: 1
Interior: 930 Lot Size: 1306
53 days on MLS. They may not be getting full asking price.
Note that 900k was getting you 3,267 sqft and now 640k gets you 1,300 sqft of land. (!) This supports my original point that, depending on the original subject’s condition, the 900k listing was not unrealistic.
For those, who like BIG price drops, check out this listing:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Capitola/1705-Wharf-Rd-95010/home/2436525
Oct 13, 2009 Price Changed $525,000 — MLSListings #80929720
Sep 09, 2009 Relisted – – MLSListings #80929720
Aug 10, 2009 Price Changed $549,900 – MLSListings #80929720
Jul 14, 2009 Price Changed $594,000 – MLSListings #80929720
Jun 19, 2009 Listed $625,000 – MLSListings #80929720
Apr 30, 2009 Delisted * – Inactive MLSListings #1
Feb 05, 2009 Listed * – Inactive MLSListings #1
Oct 17, 2005 Sold $1,315,000 – Public Records
$1.3mm in 2005 and now offered for $525k. With 500 sqft (1 bed/ 1 bath according to records), this still comes to $1000 / sqft.
I think there was something funny with the sale in 2005. Some tax scheme or so.
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1
Comments: 973
Patrick says
That pretty much nails it. Yeah, the nabe is OK–but I ask this: how can a house with such tiny BRs be over $1K/sqft? That’s some pretty serious Koolaid there, especially since there are nice homes on the MLS at $400-500/sqft.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
Kurt, $1000/ sqft is “ok” for smaller houses because a portion of the price is for the land, right?
By the way, the above mentioned $1.3mm house with 500 sqft living space.. $2600 / sqft
problem is, it is not in a prime location. El Salto Dr and Oakland Ave are Depot Hill. That is the hill south of the old village.
The former $1.33mm house is on the opposite side of the old village- the “other hill”. Not quite as desirable. The former $1.33mm house is across the street from a popular restaurant (not a plus in my book). And I think there is a fourplex with - oh the horror - .. renters .. within ~800 feet.
Disclaimer: I personally also live on the “inferior hill”
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1
Comments: 973
ptiemann says
Of course it’s OK–if it’s worth your while to spend that $.
In this case, the buyer would spend $900K up-front for a tiny 2BR on a lot size that doesn’t have much working room. When I looked around Marin, there were many 2BRs at ~$1K/sqft in Sausalito, Tiburon, etc….but that was 2004 prices, not now. If you can still get that in Santa Cruz/Capitola…I’d say sell!
Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 8
Comments: 183
CRAZY, in the late 1990s my friend bought their gorgeous ocean front home on a HUGE lot right on the point of Pleasure Point for 800k. Now for that price you get a tiny 2 bedroom cottage on a tiny lot without even a view?
Joined: 26 May 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 3
zetabeos says
Horowitz is a hack… Ignore the treehuggers, crossdressers, and lesbian radicals, UCSC is a science mecca… And science and technology is where the money is… I regularly parasitize their most excellent technical libraries…
That said, the lefty PC NIMBYs do use the campus as a rallying point for a plethora of ridiculous crusades and quests that negatively impact the town’s shot at anything but brute force big brick retail in its economic future. But that doesn’t change the fact that Horowitz is a hack. I mean if you think Ralph Nader, Glenn Beck, Alan Dershowitz, and/or Tom Tancredo are maximum supergenius prodigies, you’ll probably disagree, but um, whatev…
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
KurtS says
well, that decision depends on the owner’s idea of future valuation, right? I have 2 properties on the blue collar hill, as I called it above. I believe that top locations will keep value better and Depot Hill definitely is one. Would I pay $600k for 1300 sqft land? Rather not.
You see, I rather buy more than sell
The true high end starts around $2mm in my opinion. Anything between $800k and $2mm is mid-level. People with very well-paying jobs have bought these. However, these are people who have jobs, and need jobs. They may get into a situation where they have to sell. The general expectation is that this mid-level segment will be under price pressure in 2010.
People who have bought a property for more than $2mm probably have so much money that they don’t care if values drop 30%. They may have paid mostly in cash and just a $1mm mortgage as that’s the maximum they can deduct. I don’t expect many distress sales there.
@Tude: if your friend got ocean front for 800k then I hope your friend hangs on to it.
Depends on which year your friend bought. 1997 is ‘late 90s’ and prices were near bottom then.
-Peter
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
Proof that $900k was not reasonable for 878 sq ft 408 El Salto, which is tiny and has no ocean view:
From Zillow:
104 1/2 Oakland Ave, Capitola, CA
Recently Sold: $826,000
3 Beds
2.0 Baths
1,600 sqft
Sold On: 09/30/2009
Credible ocean views, third house from the cliff.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
You left out a critical number - lot size. And the neighbors.
Lot size:
1600 sqft building on 1800 sqft land. Or maybe 2000 sqft land, according to the owner on zillow
Yes, that sold for $826k.
Do you rather have 1600 sqft house on 1800 sqft land (826k),
or 878 sqft house on 3200 sqft land?
Someone owned “104 Oakland” (~ 4000 sqft) and had the great idea to split it into 2 lots. A small cottage of 500 sqft on the front and a big house on the back.
The sale for 826k is for the backyard lot, accessible via an easement.
2) Check out the google street view capture that I attached for you. Do you see the duplexes next to it?
Will you admit that this affects property value?
Would you want to live on 1800 or 2000 sqft land, accessible via easement, next to 2 duplexes?
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
Sorry, I made a mistake with my google picture was not taken. I try it again.
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
Wow, I love the red arrows pointing to the duplex units. What program did you use to make those?
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
In this case proximity to the ocean, partial ocean views, and square footage of the house trump a bigger lot size. And remember, Oakland actually sold for $835 while El Salto didn’t sell for $900k.
And, Oakland is a 3BR/2BA house you could live in, while El Salto is a 2BR/1BA weekend-only cottage. Sure, you could expand on the lot, but how much more are you going to put in over and above the $900k!
I’ve been in both and concluded both were overpriced, but I’d buy Oakland before El Salto. And that’s assuming the prices were equal!
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
@patrick: that’s an old version of PaintShop Pro (v6).
The red arrows don’t point to the ugly duplex. The big one points to what someone paid 835k for (concessions unknown).
@pfdv: I guess we have different preferences. Frankly, I think 835k was too high, given the lot, easement and neighbors. I would not pay more than the equivalent of rent. Maybe 400k or 500k. This property will always be hard to sell, no matter what you do, unless you buy the neighboring parcels
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
Agreed - both places are worth maybe $500k in my book. But ultimately the value is whatever the market will bear and the market spoke and Oakland sold and El Salto didn’t!
Joined: 14 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
Central VA 3300 sq feet 3/3, on 4 acres, built in 2005 on Lake Anna, VA. 2nd largest lake in VA with 250mi of shoreline. Deeded use of covered dock with boat lift, $350K hmmm ok it doesn’t have water frontage or water view it’s a lake access house which means you have to walk or drive a couple of blocks to get to your boat you could of course take your golf cart stored in your 3 car garage. One drawback…HOA fees are over $300 per year, hahahahaha, yeah $30 per month $360 per year, no I’m not missing any zeros! And property taxes are less than $3K per year. They are on their own well and septic so no water or sewer bills.
No doubt about it Californians are crazy!
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
408 El Salto Dr sold today at trustee sale, back to the bank.
The first loan including late fees was $858k and that’s how they probably had arrived at the listing price of $899k. (899k - realtor commission would have covered the first loan; there was no second loan)
In order to sell it, the lender authorized a starting bid of $688k but nobody wanted to buy it. I think given all the comps, the value is right around 730k but why pay 688k cash when you can pay 730k retail with a mortgage?
It’s REO now.
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Posts: 5
Comments: 1371
Bellingham, WA
zetabeos says
And 441K on a 15yr 4% loan pencils out to a carrying cost of under $1700. With amortization that’s $3500 a month for 15 years, after that the monthly expense drops to ~$600/mo. Will rents on Depot Hill be higher than $600/mo in 2025?
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
Troy says
I see that you are from WA
I think a 2-BR apartment in that area rents for 1800 right now, a house as the one on El Salto probably for $2500.
from zilpy:
1-br: $1195
2-br: $1950 (SFR)
3-br: $3800 (SFR)
1-br: $1495 (apartment)
That $441k price was a bubble head’s wet dream, calculating forward from the 1997 sale ($330k), not going to happen.
Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 8
Comments: 322
Troy says
PG&E would be the same after 15 years? Property tax? no inflation?
Any chance of major renovation like roofing at all? water/sewer/trash bill will be the same with that of 15 years ago? Not gonna take care of lawn at all? Pipe, door, cabinet and etc will be the same good condition after 15 years? I woud be surprised when it is lower than $600.
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
Now listed (mls #81005046) as REO owned with an asking price of $703k, which is back to the 2003 price. It’ll be interesting to see what happens now. If Depot Hill is as immune as the realtors and residents (I’m a resident, but a renting resident) say, then this little “charmer” will be snapped up. If not, let’s see how close it gets to the 2001 level. So, if this is sold by the bank, does that sale become a comparable or is it ignored because it wasn’t a “real” sale by a “real” owner?
@ptiemann - if this was a steal at $900k are you going to jump in at $700k?
Joined: 5 Feb 2010
Posts: 0
Comments: 4
Its funny but I couldn’t help but notice the comparable commissions another bunch of highly paid guys make - Investment Bankers. The standard commissions of 7% +/- a few hundred bps on IPOs and M&A deals IBs charge are almost the same as the 6% charged by realtors. With the difference being you get a college degree worth $250K, then work for a number of years, drop another $250K (including opportunity cost) for an MBA then work 24hour days as an IBanker whereas all you need is your high school diploma and pass an easy exam to be a realtor. Only in America
localsavage says
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
pfdv says
well, if you look back, you can see that I also said
“
”
The photos look good, but I cannot.
1) I already own 2 properties in this zip code, one of them being a 5-br, 2100 sqft house on 6300 sqft that I prefer over the tiny one at 408 El Salto Dr.
2) I am already fully
leveraged and cannot get another mortgage. I would have to pay cash.
While I do have the cash (coincidentally, I have enough cashier’s checks right here on my desk today), it would not make sense to pay 700k cash and collect $25k net annual rent or whatever I would get out of it.
I constantly look to buy more property but I always want to have a save exit strategy. I bought a property in San Jose for 200k (cash) a few months ago. Rental income is $2500/month. Now that is a wide open barn door of an exit!
That El Salto home will find a buyer. I am not sure why they priced it at 702,900. Why not 699,000 ?
It was offered at trustee sale for $688,962 (the balance of the first loan + late fees), and I guess they want to pay $14k to the realtor.. yeah, makes sense. 14k = 2% commission.
688 + 14 = 702
Banker = not smart.
Thanks for reminding me of these cashier’s checks. I need to put them away before my dog eats them. He loves all paper
I will post another property now that illustrates that the world has come to an end.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
update: spoke to a realtor last weekend about this property and he said they have already more than half a dozen offers but the bank is a tough negotiator.
It went pending since then.
January 8th 2010, I estimated a retail value of 730k (see above).
Let’s see how close I came.
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
On June 29th, 2009 ptiemann said “in absolute terms - a steal at $900k.” Let’s see how close he came…
Joined: 6 Sep 2009
Posts: 1
Comments: 20
hmmm
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
Back on the market again at $702,900…
I guess the bank being a “tough negotiator” is realtorspeak for “unwilling to accept lowball offers.” Either that or the “more than half a dozen offers” is realtorspeak for “one modest offer on shaky legs…”
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
didn’t take long, pending again
I know one guy from the neighborhood who wanted to put in a 600k cash offer, “for fun”. He already owns 2 properties on Depot Hill.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
Went pending 4/2 and closed escrow 4/16 –> probably cash purchase, 670k
Joined: 9 Nov 2009
Posts: 14
Comments: 542
Milpitas, CA
@ ptiemann,
Estimated for $730k. Sold for $670k. Off by 8%. NOT BAD. Deal closed in 2 weeks; more than likely a cash purchase. I agree.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
Yeah, I talked to an agent today about this transaction.
Here’s a comparable sale:
616 Sunset Dr
Capitola, CA 95010
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Capitola/616-Sunset-Dr-95010/home/2277770
Comparing these 2 properties:
El Salto / Sunset Ave
Location quality: A / B
Living space: 893 sqft / 975 sqft
Rooms: 2-1 / 2-2
Lot size: 3049 sqft / 2787 sqft
Sunset Ave is inferior to El Salto but sold 25k higher. El Salto should’ve sold 40k higher than Sunset Ave, but banks.. that’s what they get for paying tiny commissions, I guess.
Both sales make my own properties look more valuable, so I’m ok with the numbers. (I have a 1550 sqft and a 2100 sqft SFR here)
By the way, the SUNSET AVE closed even faster - in ELEVEN DAYS! - probably cash as well.
Mar 17, 2010 Sold (MLS) $695,000 — Inactive MLSListings #81005826
Mar 06, 2010 Delisted * – Inactive Oodle #1
Mar 06, 2010 Listed
Since probably both sold to a cash buyer, this shows how cheap the bank sold El Salto, by comparison.
Joined: 9 Nov 2009
Posts: 14
Comments: 542
Milpitas, CA
@ ptiemann,
Sounds like you know your territory pretty well
So what did the agent say? I’m interested in what (s)he said to you. I’ve seen a strategy where the buyer came back to the bank after inspections and ask the bank to drop the price by the $$ amount it required to fix/repair per the inspection reports such as termites and etc. In the last case I know of, the inspection reports came back with $65k worth of fixing. the bank dropped $25k just to close the sales. Yeah I know. She got herself really good inspectors.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
The agent to whom I talked was not involved in either one of those 2 transactions.
She knew the El Salto property of course, as probably every agent in the county knew it. At least every good agent. She had expected it to sell for 740k.
Yes, good chance that someone used an inspection report to get that price.
Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
OK, so let’s recap. My original post (reader F) stood for the proposition that asking $900k for this property was ridiculous. ptiemann disagreed, saying that the “original listing sound(s) reasonable and actually - in absolute terms - a steal at $900k.” He (I presume from the “mann”) then justified his at-least-$900k valuation for the 2BR/1BA 878 sq ft El Salto house with no ocean view by comparing it to the 3BR/2BA 1,600 sq ft house with ocean view house at 104 Oakland, that actually sold for $825,750. The basis for this comparison eludes me - real house with ocean view vs. tiny weekend cottage with no ocean view. But I digress - the market spoke and El Salto didn’t sell for $900k nor at auction for $688k. Ptiemann, ever the expert, then predicts a post-auction sale of $730k, which he misses by $60k after crowing “let’s see how close I got!” Wow, only 8%! But he has of course conveniently forgotten about his June, 2009 $900k valuation, which means he is in actual fact off by close to a quarter of a million dollars, or about 35%. As predicted in the first post, El Salto is worth somewhere between the 2001 and 2003 prices, especially adjusting for inflation and considering that El Salto is as neat as a pin and probably had at least $100k dumped into it between 2001 and now. At least $100k! And finally and even more bizarrely, despite his recent and massive overvaluation of El Salto, ptiemann declares himself happy with the final sale price, saying that this sale “make(s) my own properties look more valuable, so I’m ok with the numbers.” Wow. Comparable property sells for 35% less than he thought it was worth and it makes his properties look more valuable? Wow.
Relentless optimism in the face of all evidence to the contrary? He can only be… A REALTOR! You heard it here first folks!
Sorry to rag on you ptiemann, but sometimes you just have to grow a pair and fess up that you got it wrong.
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 399
no worries pfdv.
yes “he” since “Peter”.
I don’t think I need to repeat what I said or? What is your opinion on the house on SUNSET that sold for 695? Is the buyer a fool? Wouldn’t you agree that the SUNSET property is inferior to the EL SALTO one?
One fool and one got a steal, or?
And my 900k number was 9 months earlier, right?
I am not a realtor .. yet.. but will take the test for a sales person soon. So.. your statement is inaccurate or at least too early. I’ll post here once / if I have passed the test
you can submit your next offers through me then 