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Pledge against Socialism


By Patrick   Follow   Sun, 27 Sep 2009, 2:30pm   9,366 views   119 comments
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A relative forwarded this to me. I didn't write it. --Patrick

I, ________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following:

I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:

• Social Security
• Medicare/Medicaid
• State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP)
• Police, Fire, and Emergency Services
• US Postal Service
• Roads and Highways
• Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA)
• The US Railway System
• Public Subways and Metro Systems
• Public Bus and Lightrail Systems
• Rest Areas on Highways
• Sidewalks
• All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009 federal senate appropriations)
• Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!)
• Public and State Universities and Colleges
• Public Primary and Secondary Schools
• Sesame Street
• Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children
• Public Museums
• Libraries
• Public Parks and Beaches
• State and National Parks
• Public Zoos
• Unemployment Insurance
• Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services
• Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, State or Federal Government (pretty much all of them)
• Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)
• Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions)
• Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD's ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking
• Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies
• Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies

If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care

I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C.

I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist locations, including but not limited to:

• Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History
• The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments
• The government-operated Statue of Liberty
• The Grand Canyon
• The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials
• The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery
• All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC

I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare.

I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America.

I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army.

I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees.

Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks.

Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die.

SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF __________ IN THE YEAR ___.
_____________ _________________________
Signed Printed Name/Town and State

Viewing Comments 1-40 of 119     Next »     Last »     See most liked comments

  1. elliemae


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    1   9:30pm Sun 27 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    You forgot to add:

    I will not purchase or use any item or service provided by any corporation that has received corporate welfare in the form of tax incentives.

  2. nosf41


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    2   9:33pm Sun 27 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    You have mixed apples and oranges on the list. Some items on the list represent the constitutional requirement on government. Others are not. Nobody is going to sign this pledge.

    The list is too long to go over every item. Let's try few of them:
    1. No museum should be sponsored by the government funds. There is enough private (charitable) money to support museums/art. In addition, they can always charge admission to support operational costs. The same goes for National Parks.
    2. National defense is one of the roles where government involvement is inevitable. Therefore, I support spending money to ensure the safety of all of us. However, building an empire with hundreds of military basis all over the world should not be part of the deal.
    3. Police, Fire and Emergency servces are common services that should be provided by the government.
    4. Social Security: I pledge to forfeit all money paid into the system so far, and any future claims, if only government would leave me alone and allow me to invest the Social Security witholdings the way I want it. The problem is - government wants my money, they will not let me have the freedom to invest my earnings.
    4. Medicaid: I am not opposed to some sort of help for truly poor people. Currently there is too much waste and abuse in the program.
    5. Public schools: I pledge not to send my kid to any public school if the government would accept to reduce my income tax for the same amount that they spend per pupil in public schools. As an alternative, I'd support a tuition voucher system that would allow parents to direct how education money is being allocated - not some government agency influenced by the teacher unions.
    6. Sesame Street (lets add the NPR here as well): I do not watch it - could care less if both were off the air.
    7. All government subsidies for agriculture should stop.

  3. Kevin


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    3   10:37pm Sun 27 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    If the post office is socialism, and the post office is in the constitution, were we socialists from the beginning? Oh the tangled web we weave!

  4. MarkInSF


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    4   2:10am Mon 28 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nice list, but completely disingenuous.

    Just take the first few lines:

    I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following:

    - Social Security

    In case you are not aware, you are *FORCED* by government to participate in Social Security. You are *FORCED* to pay into the system.

    If you then take money from the system that you paid into are you a hypocrite? That's the argument the left is making, and you seem to be making. You have money taken away from you by force of law, and then if you want some back from that system you were forced to pay into you are called a hypocrite.

    It's disgusting.

    BTW, I'm actually pro-Social Security, and for Universal single payer health insurance. But I'm against ridiculous arguments such as this.

  5. elliemae


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    5   6:42am Mon 28 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    However, people who scream "Socialist!" draw benefits & utilize the products & services subsidized by the gob'ment. Sure, we pay into the Social Security system. But we draw more out than we pay in. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Job-losses-early-retirements-apf-161066651.html?x=0

    Ya'll are missing the point.

  6. Nomograph


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    6   7:01am Mon 28 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    nosf41 says

    You have mixed apples and oranges on the list. Some items on the list represent the constitutional requirement on government. Others are not. Nobody is going to sign this pledge.

    That is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is everything listed is the product of wealth redistribution and Socialism. If you refuse to sign, then you are a Socialist, comrade.

  7. reniam


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    7   8:03am Mon 28 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Informed citizens understand that all governments have social policies. A government with none is an anarchy. Too much, and power is concentrated into fewer hands and devolves into an authoritarian regime of which there are many forms. Some programs are beneficial and some detrimental.

    Having public land is beneficial - without it only the very rich could go to a beach or most lakes because it would all be private land.

    Many are detrimental but, insidiously so. The housing bubble, I believe the impetus for this site, was fostered by socialist housing policy. Socialist transportation policy has helped corporations to push off manufacturing to countries with cheap labor and lax environmental policy - a modern form of gentrification. The only way it works is with cheap transport. Socialist farming policy has benefited large farm corporations and wiped out local farming. Local foods tend to be fresher and greener. Today, the cheapest food is processed high calorie junk that has had a profound effect on the nations health. Medicare and Social Security if left unchecked will bankrupt the country. Tuition rates are set to the amount one can borrow - not how much one can afford made possible by socialist educational loans.

    The argument is that government action is far too often perceived as beneficial, just, and noble when in fact it often creates more problems than it solves.

  8. nolanjj


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    8   6:57pm Mon 28 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick - you and your relative need to try thinking critically for once.

    The country has become extremely socialist. That should be your point.

    You have confused some truly socialist habits of the federal government with some things that are possessed by Americans in common.

    The pledge reveals nothing but your complete misunderstanding of socialism.

    All the best

  9. Kevin


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    9   7:38pm Mon 28 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    nolanjj says

    The country has become extremely socialist.

    nolanjj says

    ...your complete misunderstanding of socialism.

    Sometimes comments speak for themselves.

  10. nolanjj


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    10   7:55pm Mon 28 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Hmm - yes Kevin - comments like yours do speak for themselves.

    To make things a bit more clear for you - The pledge mixes various things some of which are socialist and others which are not. To mix them without any distinction, as has been done, indicates that whomever put the pledge together does not understand what socialism is.

    Also - for you socialists out there:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29socialism.html

  11. dg1j


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    11   5:02am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I agree with nosf41. Your relative is mixing apples and oranges. Actually to be blunt with you, she is not only mixing apples and oranges but she is just plain ignorant. Please go back to school or, wait, stop, please do not go back to school, just do a self study on the different forms of government. As for the United States of America, we were established to be a Constitutional Republic (limited government) that provides liberty and freedom to a self governed people. A Constitutional Republic provides a framework of law and order to the self governed people but it can only work if the self governed people are living within a common moral foundation and standard (such as the 10 commandments). The founding fathers wrote extensively about this. Unfortunately we have sacrificed freedom and liberty for an entitlement; we have sold our birthright for a bowl of soup. We will never get our nation back. We are only living a life of existence. All the tea parties in the world will not change what is going on. On the one hand I am very sorry about this. On the other hand I am very glad because I am seeing Bible prophecy unfold before my very eyes. Obama says gov't is the answer. I say Jesus Christ is the answer. Put your trust in Obama or the Lord Jesus Christ, the way, the truth, the life, the Creator of all good things. As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord. Please do not wait to make a decision because we are living on borrowed time. Just watch the prophecy of Israel unfold. This generation shall not pass before His promised 2nd coming. What generation? The generation that saw the miraculous creation of the state of Israel in 1 day and the capture of Jerusalem. This may be your last warning before Tribulation starts. Be alert, be watchful.

  12. dg1j


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    12   5:25am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    nolanjj, I enjoyed your post. Thanks for the article. Though I have always been optimistic, I can see now that Republicans do not have what it takes to turn back the disaster of the left. Even Reagan, the great communicator, could not stop the march of socialism. He put up a good fight but unfortunately the trough has been opened up and all the pigs are feeding. This is all by design in order that government continue to gain more power and control over our lives. We are nothing but serfs in their eyes. And we can not do anything to turn it back. Like I said, it is all by design in order that we accept the soon coming global government and global currency. We are ripe for a one world system and we have lost our national identity. Just follow what G20 is doing. Here is one of the problems: Sen Lindsey Graham and his boyfriend were in Chas, SC for a town hall mtg recently. He was trying to act tough against the tone of Obama and the healthcare issue. But then he said he wishes the Pres would just meet us half way. Do you see how it works. The left proposes a radical agenda and then the Republicans want to "compromise"and meet half way. We are doomed. Here's another topic to consider: Education. The gov't controlled schools are training up little statists. We will never be a truly free nation ever again. The only true freedom is in Jesus Christ.

  13. dg1j


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    13   5:30am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Thank you elliemae. I was in a hurry and did not look at the options. I haven't seen an edit set-up like this before. Very nice. I love learning something new every day. So thank you!

    I might as well add this. If anyone would like to read a book about the detriments of a powerful, controlling government, then read The Road to Serfdom by F.A. Hayek.

  14. elliemae


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    14   5:37am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    ...or used the "edit" option. Damn leftist options!

  15. racertim23


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    15   6:33am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick,
    Thanks for this. It is informative to help make people aware of current social services many already rely on and take for granted. Not all are as productive or efficient as others and many need reform. I believe the point being made is that so many have jumped on the Anti Socialism movement that they don't even consider the social services they already use and depend on daily.

  16. coolcam


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    16   6:40am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Once again Patrick you have done a good job. Logic is one hell of a weapon. I love it.

  17. bobbyvelvet


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    17   8:13am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I understand having and paying for a strong defense. I think the fact that we have our defensive forces in 135 foreign countries is offensive. (not to mention expensive)

  18. NorCalBear


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    18   8:13am Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    What about:

    Drinking from public water fountains?

    Living in or buying houses built from the timber cut from USDA (US forest service) lands, made possible from federal built logging roads?

    Using any minerals from Dept of Interior managed lands?

    Eating meat grown or otherwise enjoying anything happening on BLM land?

    Using a vaccine from the federal subsidy of vaccine production?

    Benefiting from the control or oversight of the food or drug supply or efficacy qualifications of drugs by the FDA?

    Using any insight into disease, pandemic or monitoring made by the CDC (H1N1, SARS, etc.)

    Using any discovery or invention made from a grant by the NIH, NSF, DARPA, DOE, or other federal agency?

    Benefiting from Sarbanes-Oxley, the SEC, federal standards for accounting and investing of public entities?

    Having any expectation that a bolt or nut produced by one manufacturer will work with the right thread pitch complement from another manufacturer, regulated by the NIST?

    The expectations that vaccines are inexpensive to purchase, but not produce, but also a large social benefit if many people have access to them make the "vaccine" idea, as preventative, the idea that I think is key to socialism that people are discussing. It makes more sense to pool resources to share in the expenses in something that you gain some benefit from, but even more benefit if everyone also has access to these resources. Sure you could afford your own okay fire protection, but its probably less expensive if you pooled your resources with neighbors to get really good fire protection so that together you and your neighbor have better than okay protection, since you would hopefully only rarely need this fire protection.

    The people here that are outraged or need to nitpick on the role of government are missing the point. The only difference between you walking over and borrowing a cup of sugar from your neighbor, a state run unemployment and a mandatory draft for national service is a matter of degree. Sure, your anonymity increases up that chain, but so does the benefit to you for not needing to build, buy or otherwise manage the resources to enable you to pursue your capitalist dream.

    Its the same reason that you trust boards of regulation like the AMA for your physician or state bar for your lawyer. Sure, you're a bright person, but you want to trust that the water coming out of your tap is free of heavy metals and bacteria without needing to be a chemist or microbiologist just like you want your doctor to be capable and board certified as well as your lawyer to be a member of the bar and looking out for your legal best interests. If they aren't, you have some recourse.

    We are all "social" primates, that doesn't mean we want the Marxist idea that the means of production need to be owned by the labor. There is a definition of "socialism" that to me means that I don't need to worry about the things that I'm not good at, or don't care about or don't want to focus on, I leave these things to a society that is regulated to some degree. I don't want to farm the grain to make the bread that I toast for breakfast, but I do want to know that the bread is free of melamine and the butter is not bacterial ridden and the toaster won't likely explode when I plug it into a standard electrical outlet when I find a better place to live across the country because I can now pursue my capitalist interests and not worry about overseeing whether my house will collapse from the construction that I'm not doing myself.

    So between the polar extremes is where we live: somewhere between the unbridled pursuit of wealth without consequence and the complete sharing of all assets equally by every person. Let the language war continue for "socialist", "libertarian", "liberal", "capitalist" or any of the words that hold such charge in these heady days.

  19. stmfreak


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    19   1:04pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I would sign such an agreement if it meant that my level of taxation would go down an appropriate amount.

    But as we all know, signing such a thing is an empty gesture. And by naming all these so-called benefits of socialism, we imply that foregoing socialism's benefits requires living in a world without equivalent benefits. Roads and highways existed long before Eisenhower. It is irresponsible to suggest that without the federal highways project we would never have paved them. Social security replaced support from family and community, allowing us more independence in our later years while keeping us isolated from each other. Defense used to mean every able bodied man had a rifle to repel invaders--now it means we send boys overseas to kill strangers on their own soil. Before the post office, there were commercial services that delivered post by horseback or carriage or teletype.

    The government took over these free market industries, prevented them from improving (much), raised costs, decreased efficiency, and demanded more taxes to keep them running because as we all know, life would be impossible without them.

    And yet, if they all vanished, with all them money we would save, thousands of small business would spring up to
    orrow to fill the need.

  20. mountainsrblue


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    20   1:41pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Most of you people are missing the point. I don't think Patrick nor his relative are being serious. This is satire in response to everyone who refers to Obama as Socialism... who don't even understand the basic principles of socialiam or realize that certain elements of our country is socialist... who use "socialism" as their safe word for the "n" word.

  21. Patrick


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    21   1:45pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Mountainsrblue gets first prize for understanding this post correctly.

  22. moke


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    22   3:23pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Sweet, I'm in.

    BTW, how did they build roads and educate people before Karl Marx delivered his socialism into the world? Our founding fathers must have been terribly uneducated since there were no public schools right?

    Speaking of public schools, it looks like they do a wonderful job of teaching our children not only reading, writing, arithmetic, good citizenship, and moral values, but I even heard about a new program they started in Chicago where they offer several hours of martial arts training after school each day. See for yourself:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyfvhqdtD2o

  23. Patrick


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    23   6:03pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Moke gets no prize at all. He doesn't understand that the post isn't serious, he doesn't understand that Obama is nowhere near being a socialist in the sense of being opposed to capitalism, he doesn't understand that some social programs are necessary for a country to even exist, and he doesn't understand that much of the opposition to "socialism" is actually opposition to having a black president.

    Moke seems to think that Karl Marx invented all publicly provided services. Weird. Marx's main idea was that all the "means of production" (ie, factories) should be owned by the people (ie, the government). That's Communism. Did not work so well in the Soviet Union.

    Every country taxes its people to provide certain necessary services. The only question here is whether health care is one of those necessary services.

  24. reniam


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    24   7:10pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    mountainsrblue says

    Most of you people are missing the point.

    Patrick says

    Mountainsrblue gets first prize for understanding this post correctly.

    That's arrogance. It's back-handedly dismissive to those that don't support the author’s view and a cheap device to disregard their opinions. Read the comments. Many understand the point: It wasn't that deep.

    mountainsrblue says

    I don’t think Patrick nor his relative are being serious. This is satire in response to everyone who refers to Obama as Socialism…

    If it is satire: Then it is serious. Satire is a method of using humor to criticize. The thing about satire is you have to agree with the criticism to appreciate the humor.

    mountainsrblue says

    who use “socialism” as their safe word for the “n” word.

    That’s absurd. The majority of us are genuinely concerned with the spending programs and their long-term consequences. Most of my acquaintances felt the same way under Bush. Sorry, race isn't the issue.

  25. frodo


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    25   7:52pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I think that it is appropriate in a certain context. I.e. it is a joke, that is funny because it lists all of the very important government functions that currently exist, and calls them socialism. It's obvious to many, although not all, that much of the items listed have certain degrees of socialism. The stretching of those degrees is kinda the humor of it. . . LOL Sign that baby!

    It's a dig on those who are screaming socialism.

    The socialist screamers find it incredibly UN-FUNNY. They, in turn, start to get literal, and proceed to tear the joke up.

    It is the very reason it is so funny to others.

    It is very funny to me, but I can see the hyperbole in the joke. Its a bit sensationalist for my taste, and I wouldn't have posted it. But hey, it was funny.

  26. nolanjj


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    26   8:32pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Wait a second Patrick - I got the point exactly. Some smart A** put together the pledge to "try" and make the point that all of us (me included) who call Obama a socialist "dont know what we are talking about" etc etc etc.

    The pledge misses the mark. First Obama is a socialist. Second the "logic" behind the pledge is full of equivocation. A "social" program is not the same thing as a "socialist" program. Just because something is for society doesnt mean it is "socialist" - except in an equivocal sense of the word.

    Highways are not "socialist" in the sense of springing from socialist political philosphy. Welfare IS socialist in the sense of spring from a socialist political philosophy. Police departments are for society but they are not born out of socialist political theory. Much of FDR's great society does spring from Socialism as a political theory. Having so called "public" parks is not.

    So - in a word unless you are equvocating a "publicly provided service" contrary to what Patrick says is not "socialist".

    Socialism at its root is a political theory advocating state ownership of the means of production (i.e business). Those of us who say Obama is a socialist are not without evidence that he advocates such ownership - witness the latest round of bailouts that made the "state" a major shareholder of numerous businesses. The US govt for instance under Obama is now the defacto owner of the worlds largest Insurance agency and by virtue of that the owner of numerous subsidiary businesss.

    The burden of proof I am afraid is on those who claim Obama is not a socialist.

    Aslo - as an aside Patrick and mountainsrblue. Claiming that we who oppose Obama due so on the basis of race cheapens the conversation. When I say Obama is a socialist I am not making a moral judgment on him or any of his supporters. You on the other hand are, by calling us racist, making such a judgement.

    And so Patrick.......... I think according to your own rules you should delete some of your own remarks and those of mountainsrblue. There is no need to interject race into the conversation.

  27. elliemae


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    27   9:20pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    nolanjj says:
    "And so Patrick………. I think according to your own rules you should delete some of your own remarks and those of mountainsrblue."

    Awww, you're just bent out of shape 'cause mountainsrblue got first prize.

    mountainsrblue says

    Most of you people are missing the point. I don’t think Patrick nor his relative are being serious. This is satire in response to everyone who refers to Obama as Socialism… who don’t even understand the basic principles of socialiam or realize that certain elements of our country is socialist… who use “socialism” as their safe word for the “n” word.

    A sense of humor is a wonderful thing to utilize.

  28. jackrusse1l


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    28   9:23pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Simple simple simple. Not even a challenge. Should we who find many, if not most of the list offensive abuses of government, but who are COMPELLED at great personal risk to FINANCE these things, not only send our hard earned money to fund the socialist programs but also swear off of participating in same? That's a simplistic and childish proposal. that's 95%er thinking. That's the problem with Patrick and his socialist mindset. The answer is for the populace to be forced to pay for programs for generations but for any who disagree with the premise to balk at participating. Genius - NOT!!

    Further, because we are up to our ears in redistributive schemes, some, like Patrick, find that justification to pile on more. Our "spend today -pay whenever" mindset has already doomed America to the poorhouse without government maneuvering to usurp all control over medical care in the U.S. This scandalous healthcare bill is floundering and will be dead-on-arrival BECAUSE the bulk of Americans understand the scheme. The ulterior goal is government controlled universal healthcare which is completely outside the realm of viability without dramatically curbing available services. Period. And as the public become increasingly aware of the shell game the liberals are playing, the public sentiment is becoming very plain. Watch this go down in flames as it becomes the torch that illuminates the sea-change in 2010.

    Shout, whine, ridicule if you will. But mark my words. Its going to be a beautiful thing.

  29. Nomograph


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    29   9:23pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    nolanjj says

    Wait a second Patrick . . .

    Even after seeing it explained, you *still* don't get it. I imagine it must be difficult for black-or-white thinkers to grasp the concept of grey.

  30. Kevin


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    30   9:59pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    jackrusse1l says

    The ulterior goal is government controlled universal healthcare which is completely outside the realm of viability without dramatically curbing available services. Period.

    That's just absurd. Please list the services that are not available in any other wealthy country that are available in the US. Have you ever even been to one of those countries?

  31. nolanjj


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    31   10:29pm Tue 29 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nomograph says

    "Even after seeing it explained, you *still* don’t get it. I imagine it must be difficult for black-or-white thinkers to grasp the concept of grey."

    A perfect example of how liberals converse. I get it perfectly but Nomograph like Kevin and others fill some inner compulsion to attack (and here I thought liberals were suppose to be soooo compassionate).

    O well Im glad at least you imply im a "thinker" - black-or-white.

    Anyway, since liberals love read meat Ill throw a little more your way. Lets grant your opinion that the confused mish mash of a pledge is funny. Socialism is decidedly not funny. Socialist as all of the empirical evidence show are deadly. In general terms Socialist in the last century alone account for in excess of 60 million deaths.

    Liberals (i.e socialists) and alcoholic have a lot in common. Their vision of reality is often very blurred and they generally end up killing other people.

  32. frodo


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    32   2:27am Wed 30 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nolanjj,
    "A perfect example of how liberalc converse. . ."

    That's got just a little bit of hyperbole in it, don't you think? I consider myself a liberal, yet I didn't attack you.

    With regard to your comment: "Socialism is decidedly not funny etc."

    Many people don't believe that we are in danger of becoming Socialist with the addition of new programs. And much of the screaming just seems like fear mongering.

    One of the traits I distrust most of all is fear peddling. I have a lot more faith in a message of hope, than fear.

  33. RayAmerica


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    33   7:42am Wed 30 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    mountainsrblue says

    Most of you people are missing the point. I don’t think Patrick nor his relative are being serious. This is satire in response to everyone who refers to Obama as Socialism… who don’t even understand the basic principles of socialiam or realize that certain elements of our country is socialist… who use “socialism” as their safe word for the “n” word.

    Here we go again .... now the word "socialism" is a "safe word" for the "n" word. Funny thing: when conservatives like myself criticized Bush for his expansion of socialistic programs, what was that? Why ... WHY is it any and all opposition to Obama's expansion of government is immediately by so many labeled an attack on his race? By the way, why is it Obama is always referred to as an African American without mentioning the fact that he is half white? I personally don't care what the color of a person's skin is. I do care passionately about the expansion of an all knowing, all powerful government that is projecting its power into our lives and trampeling our indvidual freedoms along the way. WAKE UP PEOPLE .... BOTH PARTIES are maneuvering to take away our precious freedoms through their regulation laden obtrusive programs. Jefferson rightly warned: "A government that has the power to give you something is a government that has the power to take away." This nation was founded on limited government .... not the all powerful statist power structure it has evolved into.

  34. Patrick


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    34   9:25am Wed 30 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    RayAmerica says

    WHY is it any and all opposition to Obama’s expansion of government is immediately by so many labeled an attack on his race?

    No one here said "any and all opposition" is due to Obama's race. Mountainsrblue said "certain elements" and I said "much". And I'm pretty sure that's true.

    We must limit government expenditure, true, but leaving health care as a huge corporate profit center though tens of millions are uninsured, while blowing a trillion on gifts to the banks is not the right way to do it.

    All other rich countries do health care much better than we do, with half the cost per person and universal coverage. Why can't we?

    The answer: it interferes with corporate profits. And some of those profits are used to get people fearful, via Fox and AM radio.

    I just watched this: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/ and it is a good explanation of how health care works in Germany, Japan, England, Switzerland, and Taiwan. They all have problems, but we have much bigger problems.

  35. Bap33


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    35   1:51pm Wed 30 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I have no real comment to add anything new ... there are obviously some areas on that list that are pooled intrests that are not only constitutionaly mandated, but needed for the survival of a nation/state/county/city/neighborhood/tribe/family.

    I did find a bit of tounge-n-cheek humor when I read the part at the end of the contract where you have to use "a" Bible and swear an oath .... "The" Bible and oath only matter to us bitter clingers - right? lol. All in fun and good spirits. We will come back to center or we will not survive. We all agree there, we just disagee where center is from here!! lol

  36. mountainsrblue


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    36   2:09pm Wed 30 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Look, I'm not saying that ALL opposition or self-proclaimed "dissentors" are racist. But if you think for one minute that we are a racist-less society, you are either in denial, or you are perhaps racist. It is a hard thing to transcend, as it is an instinct for all humans to be prejudice. I think that there ARE legitimate reasons to scrutinize the president, we wouldn't be a democracy if we all just went along. How great it is that we can oppose our president! I am just ashamed at the ones who do so in the face of ignorance.
    I pray for the day that all Americans finally realize that it isn't the right nor the left that is the enemy, rather, we all share a common enemy!

  37. RayAmerica


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    37   2:34pm Wed 30 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Of course there are racists in this country. But don't think it only applies to the right. When we're were first married, my wife worked at a place where she was the only white girl amongst about 15 black women. She soon became close friends with one of these black women. One day, her black friend came to work and told her they couldn't be friends anymore because of the pressure she was receiving from the other black women. My wife's "crime"? She was white.

    The Liberal Congressional Black Caucus has as a written policy that only Black members of congress can belong to their caucus. A Liberal Democratic Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee was turned down after he applied for membership. The reason? He is white.

    Racism is a hideous thing .... and it is just as hideous when practiced by Blacks against Whites. As long as there are human beings, there will be racism, and no law can ever change a human heart.

  38. moke


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    38   5:16pm Wed 30 Sep 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Patrick says

    Moke gets no prize at all. He doesn’t understand that the post isn’t serious, he doesn’t understand that Obama is nowhere near being a socialist in the sense of being opposed to capitalism, he doesn’t understand that some social programs are necessary for a country to even exist, and he doesn’t understand that much of the opposition to “socialism” is actually opposition to having a black president.
    Moke seems to think that Karl Marx invented all publicly provided services. Weird. Marx’s main idea was that all the “means of production” (ie, factories) should be owned by the people (ie, the government). That’s Communism. Did not work so well in the Soviet Union.
    Every country taxes its people to provide certain necessary services. The only question here is whether health care is one of those necessary services.

    Patrick,

    Of course I understand the post isn't meant to be serious. I am serious though. If there were a society based on liberty and individualism any place on earth (like pre-20th century US), I would move there in a heartbeat. And don't say "well go to Somalia, they don't have any social programs there". I want to live someplace that respects life, liberty, and property, and also upholds the sanctity of contracts.

    What I don't want is to live among savages like you and our president who intend to organize society by force. I believe all human relationships should be voluntary and mutually beneficial. In short I believe in peaceful civilization and am educated enough to understand what that entails.

    It appears that public "education" has crippled your mind and does not allow you to identify differences outside of simplistic racial terms. There are real philosophical and ethical differences that people have with the president and it is a shame that you don't understand that.

  39. mountainsrblue


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    39   12:53pm Thu 1 Oct 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    That's when one looses their credibility... when they demonize the opposition and cite public education as a facility for racial mongering. The problem with any debate, whether on the doorstep of the White House, the news and in everyday interaction is that there is no respect. Like I said before, we all share a common enemy and it is not each other!
    And furthermore, Socialism was NEVER a bad thing in this country untill WWII, guess they didn't teach you that at your private school.

  40. elvis


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    40   3:06pm Thu 1 Oct 2009   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Millions of Americans who have subsisted on government handouts have an almost militant expectation that society owes them.
    Welfare, the sincere effort to help people, always fails. Dependency replaces self-reliance, self worth suffers making for a large, unhappy, angry segment of society. There are tens of millions of low-income government dependents and many others infected with a sense of entitlement who could be prone to crime and violence...especially when the masses realize there are not enough jobs and handouts to go around.

    STOP GLOBAL WARMING - SAVE THE UNICORN !

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