Cash for Blunders
By Tenouncetrout on Wed, Oct 28th, 2009 at 10:24 am | 1107 views | rss | email this | add commentI’m changing my tactics. We have been waiting for the housing market to stabilize(I’ve resigned to forgo bottoming, just stable will do). Well I have finally realized that it is not going to stabilize any time soon, we’ve got at least 3 more years of this nonsense. Maybe the next president will reenact “Prudence” and “Fundamentals”.
Last month I thought it might be time, I saw a few homes that looked psuedo interesting. So I applied for a loan, and apparently so did a billion other people. Because the NAR saw the mortgage apps as a reason to call the bottom on the market. The lender took almost four weeks to get back to me, and during that time, the houses I was looking at were either sold are now 20 to 50K more than they were when I started the loan app process. So now I’m not willing to buy.
I have decided to change my strategy, I am not buying a house using a bank, or a Realtor. I have decided that I will be paying cash for a house. No I don’t have the cash now, but I realized that in the last two years, if I had saved with the intention to pay cash for a house, instead of just working on a bigger down payment. I would almost be at that point now.
We have just been renting being content saving money in our down payment fund, and enjoying the extra disposable income, and my kids want for nothing. We’ve done more road trips and vacations than we ever did before. I think now at this point we’re amused to the hilt, and we have all of the doo dads and gadgets and aren’t keen on any of the new doodads on the market.
So now we will be in Cambodian save mode, let the Market have its false bottom. Let the suckers fuel the false starts. All of the talk about 8K tax credit, which that 8K has had “0″ effect as for a motivation for wanting to buy. We have a down payment and plenty to put in any minor repairs or remodeling. That 8k seems to mean more to those that don’t even have a legitimate down payment.
Also we have a 20% down payment not a 3.5% or what ever silly requirements for a Mae loan.
The way I see it, if we just start saving all we can now. Some where between march 2010 and December 2012, I think we’ll have enough to scoop up a sweet deal on a house for cash out right. What with the original loans defaulting and the new batch of defaulters they are setting up putting people that can’t afford houses in to houses with a 8,000 dollar carrot.
Somewhere on down the road, the banks are going to be desperate for Cash payers.
I can wait, I don’t have a mortgage hanging over my head. My cars are paid for, and we are all bored with new gadgets and doo dads, so I don’t forsee us as a family spending disposable income as we have the last two years. Besides contrary to what Iwog said, deflation has new Windows 7 Laptops for 350-799 with blueray. Which I’m not terribly motivated to acquire anyway.
I’d rather wait for those houses to deflate, which they will eventually. Even if we have to wait for Lord Palin to take office to undo what Bush and Obama has done. It will happen.
I’ll pay them cash for their blunders.
I suspect 100K “CASH” will buy a lot of house, 3x the house a mortgaged home will afford.
Joined: October 18th, 2007
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I’ve taken a few thousand of the money I was saving for a down payment and bought some high tech start up stocks in web 2.0 and hydrogen technology.
I think that will return me enough money in the short term to pay outright for a house.
My friend Brian bought a two bedroom, mint condition house in rural Oregon for $36,000 (thirty six thousand…not missing any zeroes). I’m looking to do same.
Joined: September 18th, 2009
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I would love to invest in something, putting it in the market is riskier than gambling these days.
Anyone cacth front line last week? “The Warning” it about Brooksley Born the head of the CFTC warning that the derivatives market was a scam. She was silenced in a Congressional hearing on her findings, and six weeks latter the derivatives market collapsed. All of the folks that maliciously silenced her and told her and congress point blank that suckers are suckers and deserved to be robbed, if they can’t see something is too good to be true and invest in those sucker bets. They saw it a great money maker and economy builder, robbing from hard working people investing in complicated markets they don’t understand.
I guess that is why Greenspan sabotaged the Tech market it interfered with the financial market, which they had full control over. The tech market was a force out of their control, just the companies and the day traders investing in them. Banks had to watch billions being made and lost for the sidelines. (Unrelated I know, but I always wondered what was Greenspans motive for bringing down the tech industry as a whole, instead of just policing the scammers that over valued bogus companies. )
My point is there is no way I would invest in this market unless you a great understanding of the Fundamentally Challenged forces that are driving this market. It is not supply nor demand, nor is it fiscal profits.
I would invest in a private venture though, that has a good model and a plan.
Joined: September 1st, 2009
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My husband calls this his “we’re gonna buy for cash” dance. In fact he does a little dance.
We don’t have as much disposable income as you, (evidently) so it would be more like 2018 for us.
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GMAC my mortgage holder (
Joined: August 27th, 2009
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Sorry all, I had a great one. The post (above) didn’t go through. I don’t have the heart to type it again. Have a Good One,
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Dayum, and I had a witty comeback too.
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I’ve taken a few thousand of the money I was saving for a down payment and bought some high tech start up stocks in web 2.0 and hydrogen technology.
I think that will return me enough money in the short term to pay outright for a house.
My friend Brian bought a two bedroom, mint condition house in rural Oregon for $36,000 (thirty six thousand…not missing any zeroes). I’m looking to do same.
Joined: September 17th, 2009
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I’ve been doing the same actually, except it’s been since 1997 when I saw housing starting to bubble
Granted, now I have a few hundred k liquid, but it’s going to take a few more years so save enough to buy outright in the bay area.
Either way, I’m not touching anything. This market is ridiculous and is ripe for a fall.
Joined: September 17th, 2009
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I should add “this housing market and our economy” is ripe for a fall. I really have a bad feeling the next 10 years + are going to suck something fierce.
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Decreasing prices in electronics is not deflation. Prices of electrons have steadily decreased for about 50 years, despite 50 straight years of inflation.
Joined: September 18th, 2009
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Can’t argue with prices and Laptops, PDA’s by top manufacturers as well as HDTV have never been more affordable and for the most recent models.
Joined: August 29th, 2007
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Oh jeez, another soothsayer that knows how EVERYTHING pans out in the next couple of years. who wins the Superbowl in 2012 ? Ok , that is three years but still valuable info regardless. Please say
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theoakman says
LOL! Sarcasm.. thats good.. here is a blast from the past.
It cost $9K back in 89, of course it also paid everyones salary. Now the same product (netbooks) are a tiny fraction. There is no one in SV who can control prices.. not even Google or Oracle.
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“TOKYO (Reuters) — Sony Corp. posted a loss for the fourth consecutive quarter, hit by sluggish cellphone sales and as it cut prices of its PlayStation 3 game gear, but trimmed its full-year loss forecast close to market expectations.
Sony’s mobile phone joint venture with Sweden’s Ericsson saw its sales tumble and losses balloon as it has lacked a strong smartphone offering to rival Apple Inc.’s (AAPL, Fortune 500) iPhone and Research in Motion’s (RIM) Blackberry.” (which are also cheaper than a cup of Starbucks coffee)
So that’s not Deflation, then what is your definition?
Joined: August 12th, 2009
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Tenounce, deflation is the loss of pricing power throughout the economy. Usually happens after a credit bubble as people tighten their belts, buying fewer and fewer goods and services. Firms then lay off people and reduce production, but then there is even less buying, and then firms cut markups down to the bone from the factory to the truck to the warehouse to the point of sale… everybody hoards cash… no spending… no jobs. Company is making so little per product sold at all levels they can barely afford to service their obligations (if at all).
It doesn’t happen to one company or even to one industry. It’s across the entire spectrum of the economy, from Adirondack Chairs to Lattes to Zebra-print Pillow Covers.
Computers falling in price has to do with technological innovation and the increased economy of scale in production costs that comes when manufacturers are increasing supply. It’s not deflation.
If that was the case, then cars are really deflated. A $360 Model A Ford is about $20k in modern dollars. For less than $20k, you can buy a Camry today. The former does not come with power windows, 10-CD changer, airbags, seatbelts, interior heating, etc. etc.
Joined: September 16th, 2009
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What is wrong with not WANTING OR NEEDING to buy crap? Can someone please tell me what is wrong with deflation? I like the fact that my dollars will buy more, even if I don’t NEED what it is they can buy for less. As for houses falling in price, what is wrong with that? Don’t people NEED houses? Why must houses be expensive? We need food, and yet we don’t like it when that costs more; we need gasoline for our cars, and we’re always whining about how expensive it is (it still seems cheap to me, but then again, I don’t drive much). If a nation cannot or will not live within its means, then it gets what it deserves, and from where I sit, this whole deflation thing is a nonstarter.
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thunderlips11 says
You rip those lines off the front news page today and yet talk about it, like it’s another era.
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10oz. I don’t know if we’re facing deflation or inflation or treading water now and the dam busts loose later.
I was just pointing out that loss of pricing power in one industry doesn’t mean deflation. Right now it looks like very mild deflation is taking hold from what I see.
Absent all the crap the government is doing to keep asset prices from dropping like they should, we would be in a severe deflation.
That being said I am very, very bearish about the direction this country is taking. I honestly don’t know if we are going to find ourselves in 1930 again where things are 70% cheaper but nobody is buying, or whether we are going to need a wheelbarrow full of Washingtons to buy a gallon of milk at Shop Rite. The later could happen if the economy actually does recover; think of all those trillions lent to the Banks that the big boys are sitting on. If they lend it out, it’ll start the greatest money creation incident in the history of Mankind. But it is going to break one way or the other.
“Bubbles” Greenspan Jr. can’t stop it, even if he makes the interest rate negative.
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thunderlips11 says
My dear Thunderlips, we didnt scale production, far from it. Silicon Valley did all it could to keep prices high to rack in revenue and keep industries going given there were few players and sky high demand for information products, we certainly had incredible profits and huge demand for labor/skilled labor. Once the Japanese figured on their own to create microprocessors, harddrives, mother boards, mainframes and minis… that was it for our pricing power. The Europeans were not far behind them. You can be as ‘innovative’ as you like but you still have inherit deflation in tech products.
As such Japan/Taiwan/Korean entered the US markets and dropped prices forcing us to exit markets and/or ship jobs creating plenty of deflation.
Look up the last point on Japans deflation on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Major_deflations
“Imported deflation: Japan imports Chinese and other countries’ inexpensive consumable goods, raw materials (due to lower wages and fast growth in those countries). Thus, prices of imported products are decreasing. Domestic producers must match these prices in order to remain competitive. This decreases prices for many things in the economy, and thus is deflationary.”
Not even Moor’s law foresaw deflation. In fact “technological innovation” requires considerable amount of new capital and retooling which is expensive. As such to keep up with innovation requires cheaper labor and materials because pricing pressure still remains. We haven’t had price inflation goods/services in decades.
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“If that was the case, then cars are really deflated. A $360 Model A Ford is about $20k in modern dollars. For less than $20k, you can buy a Camry today. The former does not come with power windows, 10-CD changer, airbags, seatbelts, interior heating, etc. etc.”
And yet, Detroit’s mistake was to increase costs in labor in face of competition with lower prices from Japan.
High Tech product SV produced also had high labor costs, but they have pay limits with limitless layoffs/restructuring over the past decades.
Can you compare pre-war Toyota car prices to Toyota today without add on features?
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thomas.wong87 says
My dear Thomas– Of course you scaled production. Regardless of what you can sell your product for, you still want to produce for as little as possible. So you can reap the “incredible profits” that you mention.
Joined: July 17th, 2009
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thunderlips11 says
No need to be so black-or-white. Try mulling over some in-between scenarios and you will get a more realistic picture of the future.
Generally speaking, the best thing to do is to take the necessary steps to ensure the future of you and your family, *especially* if it means spending less time worrying about: hyperinflation; hyperdeflation; death panels; the downfall of America; Communism; Socialism; islamofascism; regular fascism; “libs”; Nazis; neoconservatism; food riots and gun battles; gold; section 8 housing; brownshirts; Somali pirates; Mexifornia; Chinese drywall; the Fed; womb raiders; how fat, lazy, and stupid your fellow citizens are; the list of diversions goes on and on . . .
Challenge creates opportunity. Those who come out on top are the ones who recognize and capitalize on the opportunity, rather than focusing on the problem.
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chrisborden says
Because you will have less dollars. Deflation slows the velocity of the dollar, stagnates the economy, and lowers wages. Take a look around you since our current deflationary cycle began a year or so ago.
Remember that money is simply an agreed-upon medium that we use to exchange goods and services. Whether we use paper or gold is irrelevant, since it is the goods and services that are of interest, not the exchange medium. Many folks don’t seem to get this, especially the ones who stay up all night worrying about hyperinflation. Just keep in mind that it’s all about goods and services, and if the exchange medium undergoes a hiccup, it will shortly right itself.
“But wait”, you cry. “Inflation punishes savers!” Well, anyone who keeps their long-term savings in an exchange medium (cash) is being very foolish. There are many time-tested investment and savings vehicles that provide safety, growth, and protection from inflation.
“But wait”, you cry. “Investments are risky!” Well, life is risky and there are no guarantees. There will always be winners and losers. Try not to be a loser.
“But wait”, you cry. “I read on Patrick.net that America is toast and that there will be rioting and the economy will never recover, so I’m putting all my savings into gold!” Congratulations, you are well on your way to being a loser.
Joined: September 23rd, 2009
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@nomograph
I agree, however, we can all take steps to reduce our personal risk. Now is the time to reduce debt, increase savings for when those opportunities arise if your not already in a position to do so.
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I’m gonna take a loan against my home and invest in real estate. Real estate ALWAYS goes up.
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4X says
+1
More so than since shortly after the Depression, will there have ever been a greater opportunity for “Two Mules and Goat” stories. I think with in the next year and onward for a few years, those that managed to save. Will be in an extraordinary position to find cheap niche opportunities in almost every Brick and Mortar business, as well as other private investment opportunities, that will make the fantasy Real Estate market look like a suckers bet.
The trick is going to be, having a Mule and Goat to start with. Because the banks aren’t going to be in the business of actually loaning money anymore. They will just have schemes and complex financial investment vehicles that allows banks to prosper and grow, on the ebb and flow of the myriad of Zombie banks siphoning off profits through losses.
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“Regardless of what you can sell your product for, you still want to produce for as little as possible. So you can reap the “incredible profits” that you mention.”
Clearly you don’t have any financial background and haven’t worked in an competitive enterprise.
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I tried to find the Steve Martin line from “let’s get small” (recorded at the boarding house in San Francisco) where he talks about charging thousands of dollars per seat for his show, culiminating in the statement, “One show, I’m out.”
…or some variation thereof. But I couldn’t find it. It would’ve applied here.
Joined: September 18th, 2009
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I remember listening to that album as a kid pretending I got his humor.
I think if he didn’t use props, crude bodily function humor, and played the banjo too, he wouldn’t have had a career out side of doing stand up in the UCLA faculty lounge.
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thomas.wong87 says
lol–yes clearly.
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It does not take 30 years to save the cash for a house. Make a spreadsheet. Some of you can look back upon the last 10 years in which you could have been socking it away — you would have enough by now. Perhaps you can buy a cheaper house in a different city. Anyway, why are you not buying a business that can make money instead? A house can save on rent — I wouldn’t count on gains for a long while. That bubble is gone for good.
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I tried to find the Steve Martin line from “let’s get small”
LOL! how about Robin Williams early line… “Reality, what a concept”.
Lost Cause… no the bubble isn’t gone just yet! As for socking away money, be sure to mention you are buying a house and not retiring the former homeowner, before his/her time. Recent homeowners made a huge gain at someone else’s expense.
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Nomograph says
Hello from a fool. I have been putting my long term cash into bank and credit union CDs for quite some time. I shop and ladder for the highest rates. I still have a few CDs that are paying 5%-6%, although they will be coming up for renewal soon. I do not feel foolish at all compared to those I know that have invested long term in mutual funds or with a portfolio from an investment manager. I made money, and it is insured to boot.
I think it is foolish for common folk to invest any other way but the following:
Live within your means, so you can:
Pay off all credit cards first and then pay in full each month
Pay off car and then pay cash for replacement
Pay off mortgage by age 45
Put you savings into insured CDs, avoiding all the Churn&Burn, commission generating portfolios of stocks, bonds, commodities, and other inventions of the skimmers.
There may be a place for puts, calls, shorts, warrents, futures and other gambling. Just understand these are for fun and you will lose in the long run. Just like Ceaser’s Palace.
I did do rental property, but that is more of a moonlighting part time job than an investment.
Right now I have a paid off residence, one paid off rental property, no car loans or any loans at all, and have over $500k saved up and stashed in various local banks and CUs.
I agree with chrisborden - Deflation, BRING IT ON!
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HeadSet
November 1st, 2009 at 8:40 pm | top | quote | email this
Nomograph says
“I agree with chrisborden - Deflation, BRING IT ON!”
Very similar situation here. Agreed with the above post 100%, Gents. The day is coming fast where we will buy the internet genius posters so-called ‘assets’ for mere pennies on the retail dollar… Some will want pity, they certainly came to the wrong place for that. We tried to help them, they refused to listen. Now suffer. Have children? Too Bad. They will have to suffer too.
Get a Obama flu shot. That will solve all your problems…
The so-called ‘financial’ people who seem to be the most clueless people here. How do they hold on to a job? This recent statement especially amusing: “Clearly you don’t have any financial background and haven’t worked in an competitive enterprise”. Ouch. I guess that means all my paid for hard assets and positive cash flows were mistakes…. Doh.
Joe whentheygonnaputyouout?
Joined: September 22nd, 2009
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javco says
Unless you are retired, I don’t think you will like deflation. Because you will likely lose your job. And even if you have enough savings to live on for the rest of your life, you still probably won’t be happy as your kids lose their jobs and have to move back in with you…
Deflation is ugly. Definitely not something to wish for.
Joined: September 18th, 2009
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Deflation is the great leveler, it will be the Game over financial Reboot that was damn needed over 13 months ago before every Criminal Politician in Washington turned into a Crack addict.
It is now the inevitable unfortunately.
But much like the Flippers didn’t give a Rats ass, about my questions of whether my kids would be able to afford a million plus for a Shit hole slum, in a ghetto in Detroit by the time they were old enough to buy a house; at the rate the bubble was going. I will not lose one second of sleep, at the thought that millions of lil crumb snatchers are going to be dolling out, in the form of a horse pill sized dose of Karma on those very same assholes that were perpetuating the myth real estate only goes up.
My daughters living home with the wife and me for an extra Decade, I say Where do I sign up.
I actually love my kids.
Money in the bank and prudence wins every time.
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Tenouncetrout says
Not every time. During periods of inflation, money in the bank and prudence are big losers…
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tatupu70 says
The only way to stop deflation would have been to stop he runup in the first place. But the gov was more than happy to encourage massive public and private debt on the way up. Since so many spent future earnings to buy stuff today, they will have nothing to make purchases with in the future. Deflation is here whether you wish for it or not, and despite grand efforts by the gov to prevent it.
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Wants 3/2 for $500K in 90630
tatupu70 says
With money earning hardly 1% money in the bank is safe if not as stupid as putting into current real estate and losing it the very next day.
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tatupu70 says
Compared to what? During the Carter inflation era, one could get 14% all day in CDs. Also, using accumulated cash to buy a house beats the tar out of using the then current 20% mortgage. The very high rates kept home prices low enough for cash purchases.
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HeadSet says
Are you really arguing that having cash investments is OK during high inflation times? Yes CD rates will rise during inflationary times, but with most CDs your money is locked for a certain time period. And during inflation, your yield might look good when you invest, but won’t match inflation by the time it matures.
HeadSet says
Not necessarily. For example–right now I can get a 30 year mortgage at 5% (or so). Historically, buying the S&P 500 will get you somewhere in the ballpark of 7-9% annually depending on who compiles the numbers and when exactly they were calculated. Either way, you’re ahead putting down 20% and investing the rest. Especially after you can deduct the interest on the loan. And it’s also a pretty good inflation hedge.
Before all you doomsayers tell me I’m an idiot and that stocks are due to drop 80% in the next year–they may. They may not. Noone knows–not Buffet, not Roubini, especially not anyone on this board. One thing I do know–you don’t make money in the long term by trying to time the market.
Joined: September 18th, 2009
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tatupu70 says
So spend less and charge more.
It only takes one bad day on the stock market to make savers look like the velvet rope crowd.
Saving is parking your money somewhere you can add to it and make it grow by adding more to it.
Interest on it, was just gravy and an incentive to get people to not stash it under your mattress.
Investing is investing that is putting your money to work for you. This is a different motive all together than saving money.
And the smart investor should always go into each day with the idea that today could be the day your investments are gone.
One can save and invest, it is just not smart to consider either, one and the same.
Save money(pay your self), Pay your debts, invest the rest. That is classic prudence, and in that order. That has worked for over 60 years or more.
This neo Keynesian economy is like Windows Me, where the Financial gurus, keep applying patches and service release updates. While not addressing the issue that it don’t work, rather than just going back to operation system worked best last.
Joined: June 30th, 2009
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Nomograph says
This is complete and utter nonsense. Where are these safe vehicles? They do not exist. If this statement had any validity at all we would not see gold at $1060 and rising.
The only way to protect yourself from inflation is to take risks.
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@tenouncetrout
LOL. If you have used that system for 60 years then you are one old dude. What are you, like 80 years old?
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thomas.wong87 says
Yes, IBM tried that and failed. But it wasn’t Japanese who snuck up and out produced them. It was other American companies:
Columbia
Eagle Computer
Compaq
Western Digital
HP
Ensoniq (now known as “Creative”)
and later Dell and Gateway.
with their “Clones”, hard drives, interface, etc. Jack Tamriel’s Commodore, though not an IBM compatible, gave a foreshadowing of what a $400 or less computer could do. Within a decade of these companies’ existence, they got the price of a mid range PC to less than $1000 apiece.
No doubt they did a lot of outsourcing, but it was all to Taiwan, Malaysia, Mainland China. AFAIK, the only clones that were Japanese or used Japanese parts were NIC and Leading Edge, and neither survived the early 90s. Too lazy to google but I bet one won’t come across any names that have been household names in the past 10-15 years.
Out of all the big computer and computer hardware players today, they are fiercely competitive and mostly manufacture in Asia but none of them I can rattle off the top of my head are Japanese. Dell, Acer (Taiwan), Lenovo (mainland China), HP, etc. etc.
I know little about chips used in other products, but in personal and desktop computing the Japanese were never big players.
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thomas.wong87 says
Detroit kept on making Gunboats when more and more customers wanted fuel efficent, reliable cars that you couldn’t hang a chandelier like whathisname in Escape from New York. They had a brief resurgence in the 90s with Big Foot Monster Truck Rally cars, until again fuel efficiency resurged as a prime concern. They spent decades postponing the upgrading factories. Japanese Companies build factories the way Walmart will move a store across the street for a few percentage points in increased revenue. The Big Three never wanted to take a hit to the quarterly earnings.
Also, GM began to think itself a Titanic, and as a Bank that happened to make cars rather than a car company that happens to help finance loans to consumers.
Labor Costs are part of the problem, but compared to French, Italian, German or Swedish Carmakers, with their generous pensions, Detroit workers are far from spoiled. They don’t make much more than Japanese Workers. GM made money managing their worker’s health care costs for many decades. s It’s only now that they’ve quandered the investments that health care is a major cost.
Don’t forget that Auto Workers have been putting up with massive “Give Backs” for 20 years already. The days of making $30/hr + benefit costs are long since over. It’s more like $15/hr or less. When the Big Three whine about the costs of Labor, they’re factoring in all the money they SHOULD have put aside to pay for their retirees.
Who will no doubt end up on the taxpayer’s responsibility list.
You’d see a lot more rescues if that was the case.
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@Thunderlips
Don’t forget that Auto Workers have been putting up with massive “Give Backs” for 20 years already. The days of making $30/hr + benefit costs are long since over. It’s more like $15/hr or less. When the Big Three whine about the costs of Labor, they’re factoring in all the money they SHOULD have put aside to pay for their retirees.
That is interesting, I always thought they were griping about paying HIGH wages. So, it was the pensions that were running up their costs?
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thunderlips11 says
Did you list DRAM dumbing in the 80s and Semiconductor Manufacturing Equipment bundled and sold below cost to capture market share ? Illegal copy infringement on Intel’s CPU Patents (NEC V20, V30)? Do you think they play by the rules?
“Don’t forget that Auto Workers have been putting up with massive “Give Backs” for 20 years already. The days of making $30/hr + benefit costs are long since over. It’s more like $15/hr or less. When the Big Three whine about the costs of Labor, they’re factoring in all the money they SHOULD have put aside to pay for their retirees”
The typical line workers get a lot more in salary and benefits.
Compare that to their Japanese counterpart.
“Represented by the UAW, Detroit’s auto workers have long received wages and health care plus a “30-and-out” retirement plan that provides a full pension and health care for retirees and their spouses after three decades of service. Those benefits have made Detroit’s labor costs the highest in the auto business: The three makers estimate that unionized workers cost them more than $70 an hour, factoring in benefits and retirement, compared with $40 to $45 for Honda and Toyota. Health-care costs alone increase the price of Detroit-brand vehicles by as much as $1,000 to $1,500 compared with a U.S.-made Toyota, they estimate”
At these wages, it would make any Tech worker blush! Benefits for a SV worker runs around 10-15% so Detroit worker gets about the same as here. The outcome for SV may well be the same one day.
Joined: September 19th, 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 211
“Too lazy to google but I bet one won’t come across any names that have been household names in the past 10-15 years”
The same you see today… Toshiba, Sony, Hitachi, Fijitsu… I dare say I actually used some of these back in the day.
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=137
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=326
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=788
http://laptops.toshiba.com/about/about-Toshiba
“The fact is, there are lots of laptops out there. But if you really want a laptop expert; turn to us―Toshiba. We introduced the first laptop personal computer back in 1985″
NEC (1975)
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=405
Seriously, whose Chips were being put into Sony BetaMax and other electronics equipment back in the 70s ?
It wasnt ours.. they did their own and later made a grab for US electronics markets.
“No doubt they did a lot of outsourcing, but it was all to Taiwan, Malaysia, Mainland China.”
No it wasn’t “they” who outsourced to the Asian Tiger nations, it was the US manufacturers in SV, in response to JP price cuts.
By 1991-93 the last few plants were mothballed. That is why we still have a glut of commercial buildings since the past 15+ years.
Joined: August 12th, 2009
Posts: 11
Comments: 158
Right! Forgot about Toshiba and Sony.
I’m not asserting that Japan wasn’t the leader in electronics in general, just in computer parts. I do remember seeing NECs back in the day.
Toshiba is to computers what Hyundai is to the car market though. It’s a major player, but they sell a fraction of what HP, Dell, Lenovo do. I couldn’t find any info on Sony computer sales.
I’d like to know the story behind Acer and the rest of the Taiwanese computer/chip/hardware companies. I’ve never heard it.