Housing Crash Forum
The U.S. Congress will be voting on an amendment this week that would extend the first-time mortgage-slave tax credit.
The NAR is supporting the Dodd-Lieberman-Isakson amendment because they hope to get commissions for ruining more lives with debt.
This amendment would:
–Provide the $8,000 tax credit to ANY buyer (not just first time) so realtors can take more commissions at taxpayer expense.
–Set income limits absurdly high at $150,000/$300,000 for single/married buyers.
–Make the credit available until June 30, 2010, rigging the housing market to postpone affordable house prices.
The NAR is distributing “Legislative talking points” on the Dodd-Lieberman-Isakson Amendment $8,000 “Homebuyer” Tax Credit so realtors know how to spin the issue in public.
Patrick.net is asking for your help in generating phone calls to your senators in Washington, DC.
Please request to speak to each Senator’s Tax Legislative Assistant and ask them to OPPOSE the Dodd-Lieberman-Isakson amendment. We need to generate as many calls as quickly as possible. Here is a list of the phone numbers for our Senators:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Feel free to repost this article anywhere you want.
Thank you!
110 comments on “Please oppose the $8000 debt-slave bait!”
Add a comment about "Please oppose the $8000 debt-slave bait!"
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 13
Done.
And I’ll do it more.
We have to stop this in it’s tracks. By next April, they will be extending it again and increasing the dollar amount.
Joined: 6 Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Comments: 137
dudes,
I am on board.
But this will most likely pass, sad to say!
If by some miracle, if P.net readers can mobilze and stop this… whoa… that would be a COUP!
Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 16
This sucks. I’m going to paste this forum on my Facebook account, we should do whatever we can do.
Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 16
I just left a message.
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
Thanks for leaving a message!
Since the NAR is organizing calls, I assume it helps to organize counter-calls like this.
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2
Comments: 761
BAR the NAR
NAR left a SCAR
NAR WARS
Joined: 9 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 12
Yes, I agree. The debt slave bill is bad for America. Unfortunately though I think it will go through.
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 0
Comments: 175
Cupertino, CA
It passed.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/deal-struck-to-expand-homebuyer-tax-credit-2009-10-28
~Misstrial
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 34
Comments: 106
If they manage to attache it to the unemployment extension bill, then it almost certainly will pass.
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
Misstrial says
No, it didn’t pass! It’s just that some senators reached a pre-vote agreement about it, not completely specified what that deal is.
It has not been voted on! Fight it, at the very least to let them know there are people who will not be buggered by the NAR without objecting.
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 161
Comments: 2818
I submitted my opposition to my reps. Patnet readers, Unite!
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 0
Comments: 9
When will it End?
Anyone see the average Mortgage Rates bumped up from 5% to 5.2% (The Last 2 Days)?
Once interest rate Rise to 6% -7%, House Prices will Drop another 10% - 20%.
Our Foreign Creditors are itching to Bump up the Price we pay to Borrow Money…
So, buy Now, IF you plan on living in that home for a long, long time!
Once Rates go UP, Your Home Value goes DOWN.
Enjoy!!!
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Comments: 186
Sunnyvale, CA
As much as I hate to do this, I called the senators from Cal who will vote yes anyway. Its already agreed upon, now they are just talking about the porks that will go with out.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@zeppelin
When will it End?
Anyone see the average Mortgage Rates bumped up from 5% to 5.2% (The Last 2 Days)?
Once interest rate Rise to 6% -7%, House Prices will Drop another 10% - 20%.
Our Foreign Creditors are itching to Bump up the Price we pay to Borrow Money…
So, buy Now, IF you plan on living in that home for a long, long time!
Once Rates go UP, Your Home Value goes DOWN.
Enjoy!!!
Ok, I am a bit confused with your statement. Are you saying “buy now” in a sarcastic manner or do you actually believe now is the time to buy?
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@patrick
Where do we protest this in CA?
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Comments: 186
Sunnyvale, CA
4X says
Boxer, Barbara - (D - CA) Class III
112 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3553
Web Form: boxer.senate.gov/contact/email/policy.cfm
Feinstein, Dianne - (D - CA) Class I
331 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3841
Web Form: feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactU…
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 2
I don’t think our “rulers” are paying much attention to their constituents, especially not those two from CA. The gov’s only solution to the problem is to make it worse. Just like the great depression, the government policies are going to make this last several more years. We need to collapse now and start over without money lending invading every aspect of our life. I look forward to the reckoning that our congress, senate, president, and czars will face when it becomes apparent that our economy cannot survive on money lending……but I will try anyhow, to contact my senators in WA, as I always do.
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 2
Comments: 665
I’m torn. On the one hand, I think propping up the market is ridiculous, on the other hand I’m going to be buying a house anyway and I’ll gladly reduce my federal taxes by $8k. I was mostly opposed to the bill when I didn’t qualify (because of the income limit), now I’m less opposed because I will qualify.
Bastards.
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1
Comments: 74
At 12% unemployment, I doubt this is anything more than a band-aid wish. They will huff and they’ll puff but they just wont be able to keep the house.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@reid_sutherland
Here is how that conversation went in the Hallways of the whitehouse:
Congressman Republican: Umm, I know….how about we try a new method and bring manufacturing, service industry and engineering jobs back to American soil. Maybe, just maybe, if we reduced the 300B in taxes on businesses they might decide that their operating costs are low enough to bring those jobs back.
Congressman Democrat: Sounds like a great idea, but we also need to offset our support of big business by showing more support for Gay and Abortion rights. You know, if I showed support for your plan then it would make our liberal constituency wonder why we didnt get anything in return. We might lose support from our constituency. You know how that goes right?
Congressman Republican: Yeah, its pretty much the same reason I cannot vote for Universal Healthcare. I mean, I know its a great idea but I am forced to spread lies about how everyone has healthcare now in the form of Medicare, Medicaid. No one wants to hear all that crap about how people are denied coverage on pre-existing coverage when we risk losing our constituency.
Both: You know, if we could just somehow find a way to keep our support and push these programs together….ohh wait, how about a 8,000 home credit? We can keep financing GDP with equity to show a good faith effort by both sides of the house and congress. Everyone wins!
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
When will the tax revolt begin? How can we possibly continue to pay taxes for this insanity?
I used to think I was a moderate, but it’s hard to take all this idiocy much longer.
Why are politicians in favor of taking money form their/our kids to pay off the real estate lobby? It’s like taking candy from a baby to feed a shark.
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 115
I have sent my request to Oregon’s Congress members.
Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 1
Comments: 18
Pathetic.
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 115
Again, the revolt will not occur unless and until incumbents stop being re-elected. These idiots are totally beholden to their banker backers, who are the real strings behind government. Please stop sending the same thieves to Congress, and toss out the ones you have. Never ever vote for an incumbent.
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 475
Ain’t democracy wonderful?
There will be no revolt, and nothing is blowing in the wind except a lot of gas.
As far as I’ve been able to tell from pretty much the moment I was able to tell anything from anything, the widespread sentiment of the American public is “hey, as long as I got mine…I don’t care.”
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 2
Comments: 665
There will be no “revolt” as long as 60+% of the population owns a home and has their financial well-being attached to that home’s value increasing.
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 475
Yeah, that illusion is still fast in the minds of the majority of the American public. In fact, I was sitting across from a guy today who suggested real estate would be rebounding to its previous highs starting 2012 — a number ostensibly produced from straight out of his ass.
I guess housing is still the pit de jour for throwing your money into, but if you’re looking for financial well-being, you’d be better off putting your money in velvet Elvis paintings or comic books. A house is a liability before it’s an investment.
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
Comments: 320
Kevin says
You know you have to pay it back don’t you?
Joined: 13 Aug 2008
Posts: 9
Comments: 14
I wonder how this will affect RE sales in the winter months. It obviously helped during the summer buying season but that is over now. I would not be suprised if there’s no increase at all or sales and prices start falling again, although slower than they would without the tax credit.
Joined: 1 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 16
The non-first timers clause is for $6500, and only open to those who’ve owned over 5 years. This is a pure NAR bill. The concept is to spur sellers into the market to unfreeze the higher tiers. In point of fact, it might actually help bring prices down further as long term owners with equity decide that well if they were planning on selling in the next year or two anyway, they might as well try to do so in the first quarter of 2010 (insanity).
I’m still staunchly against it as a collosal waste of money, but if it happens it could increase supply of listed homes more than it increases demand, especially in high cost areas where sellers can’t possibly qualify for both mortgages.
Increasing the income limits for 1st timers is a nothing burger because then you’re reaching up into the incomes who theoretically are more likely to already have a downpayment saved up and not be incentivized by an amount they could easy save up in another 2 months anyway.
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
I’ll wait until these guys increase the credit up to 25-30K. Do you guys see that happening?
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
Time for *CHANGE*(sarcasm) has come my friends. Get these guys when they come to you asking for a vote in the next election. Obama had a chance for change by not passing the debt to the next generation as his previous administrations did. He has failed. I wasted my VOTE.
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 9
Comments: 161
Beverly Hills, CA
Thanks for providing the link. I wrote them of my support for the continuation of the $8K and that I believe it should be raised to $15K. I think the next go around will apply to all buyers not just ‘first timers’.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@Staynumz
Yep.
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 3
Phoenix, AZ
Does anyone realize that those taking the credit have to pay income tax on the credit?
Joined: 8 Jan 2008
Posts: 5
Comments: 259
steve1 says
Do you have a source for your comment?
Joined: 4 Jul 2009
Posts: 10
Comments: 115
It’s not just the tax credit. There are other programs providing up to 95,000 dollars in
silent loans that are distorting the market a lot more than a measly 8 grand.
I just got into one of these programs just to get an idea how my tax money is really being
used these days. I am even hearing about a program that provides up to 200,000 dollars in
additional 45 year loans at 3 percent interest.
If I can get the whole 303,000 dollars and only need to put 1 percent down I might just try and buy something. It’s cheaper than buying a used car.
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
Have you not heard? The ‘recession’ is over according to CNBC per the 3.5% GDP report. hahahahahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
What this means is that we now have more time to sell our CA property. CA property is going down whether or not this thing passes.
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
oldman_newage says
The tax revolt will begin when the majority finally realize they are paying 28% on money they actually earn by working, while the very rich are paying only 15% on the dividends and capital gains they get for doing nothing. Like Warren Buffett said: “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
It should be exactly opposite, with 15% tax on actual work, and 28% tax on unearned income.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
From Wiki:
In 2003, President George W. Bush proposed to eliminate the U.S. dividend tax saying that “double taxation is bad for our economy and falls especially hard on retired people”. He also argued that while “it’s fair to tax a company’s profits, it’s not fair to double-tax by taxing the shareholder on the same profits.” Soon after, Congress passed the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, which included some of the cuts Bush requested and which he signed into law on May 28, 2003. Under the new law, qualified dividends are taxed at the same rate as long-term capital gains, which is 15 percent for most individual taxpayers. Qualified dividends received by individuals in the 10% and 15% income tax brackets were taxed at a 5% from 2003 to 2007. The qualified dividend tax rate was set to expire December 31, 2008; however, the Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 extended the lower tax rate through 2010 and further cut the tax rate on qualified dividends to 0% for individuals in the 10% and 15% income tax brackets. As sunset provisions take effect in 2011, taxation of dividends and marginal ordinary income tax rates return to pre-2001 levels
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
WillyWanker says
Why just 15K?
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
The government will do whatever it needs in order to stave off the inevitable.
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 56
Comments: 972
All future generations are being mortgaged by these politicians. When it comes to irrational, but politically beneficial, spending, there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties. Bush was a fiscal disaster; Obama is Bush on steroids when it comes to spending. Unless we severely eliminate the size of government, we will face a disaster not seen since the Weimar Republic. The world is already beginning to move away from the dollar because of our devaluation of it through massive printing. If and when the dollar is no longer the world’s reserve currency, the ballgame will be over. It’s already the bottom of the ninth and team America is down by 6 runs. I doubt we’ll be able to pull this one off.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@Willywanker
You really are a wanker arent you…dont you see that housing prices have not normalized or has the point of this site gone past you?…you do realize that 8K does not mean you will get 8K back at tax time right?…it only puts you in a lower tax bracket so this may not equate to but a $500 tax credit for most. Do us all a favor and buy yourself a really expensive home…when you start realizing that you have negative equity dont come back here with your sob story looking for sympathy.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@Patrick
You need to give this wanker some counseling…it sounds like $500 is a lot of money to him.
Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 22
Comrades, the fix is in. The $8000 homedebtor tax credit will pass and the NAR will be making nice campaign contributions.
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 1372
4X says
Are you sure? It is a credit, not a deduction.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
Crap…your right. The government is handing out welfare to homeowners now!!!!!. I thought this was a deduction, now that I have read up I still wont be buying.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/13/real_estate/homebuyer_tax_credit_finalized/index.htm
Scenario 1: Your final tax liability is normally $6,000. You’ve had taxes withheld from every paycheck and at the end of the year you’ve paid Uncle Sam $6,000. Since you’ve already paid him all you owe, you get the entire $8,000 tax credit as a refund check.
Scenario 2: Your final tax liability is $6,000, but you’ve overpaid by $1,000 through your payroll witholding. Normally you would get a $1,000 refund check. In this scenario, you get $9,000, the $8,000 credit plus the $1,000 you overpaid.
Scenario 3: Your final tax liability is $6,000, but you’ve underpaid through your payroll witholding by $1,000. Normally, you would have to write the IRS a $1,000 check. This time, the first $1,000 of the tax credit pays your bill, and you get the remaining $7,000 as a refund.
Well, lets hope this wankers home doesn depreciate more than 8k.
4X Progressive
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@Patrick
You still need to counsel this wanker. 8,000 in cash versus 50,000 negative depreciation. That 8k will be gone in 30 days…
you do the math.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
BobK
What is NAR?…I am just a poor man, these acronyms dont come so quickly
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 115
National Association of Realthieves (Realtors)
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
ohh…you meant the clowns that want to keep high home prices so that their commissions dont drop.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
unfortunately for them, this is a 3 year downslide…you cant prevent the inevitable.
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
4X says
I think the 8K was gone instantly, in the sense that it just made the price go up by 8K.
No tax credt -> lower prices -> REAL savings
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
Damn, I can’t find any news on Google or Yahoo about Dodd-Lieberman-Isakson, except for stories a few days old.
How can I tell what bill this is attached to, and when the vote is?
This is about all I could find:
http://dodd.senate.gov/?q=node/5280
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 40
Comments: 103
For smart financially sound people it’s not a bad incentive to buy… That $8000 could buy a young couple a lot of home supplies to furnish and fix up a home.. without going into credit card debt….
It must be said… low interest home Debt isn’t nearly as bad as high interest credit card debt….
Admit that there is a financial advantage to getting $8000 in cash up front.. rather than a few hundred a month in savings over the course of a 30 year loan. ESPECIALLY in middle america… where home prices are already cheap.
Now in California the $8000 tax credit really doesn’t act as too much of an incentive on a $500K home… it’s just a nice perk to help offset other costs in acquiring a home for young buyers. I factored that my tax incentives to buy in 2010 would be around $20K! That would replenish my FHA 3.5% downpayment in a $500K home!… That’s a pretty big incentive… especially if you assume that $500K home atleast holds its value for 10-15 years.. even if it doesn’t appreciate… You still made $20K in free govt money…
I just wish all the foreclosures and shadow inventory will finally be unleashed on the market… My fear is foreclosures continue to held back.. And the tax credit will stall home price drops.
Could you imagine what a major earthquake would do to the housing market in L.A. and/or San Francisco…
That’s what I’m afraid of more so than $8000 tax credits…. Everone be instantly underwater if we had a 10.0 quake out here…. which odds wise are pretty strong.
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 115
RMM221: If your fear is that “foreclosures continue to held back.. And the tax credit will stall home price drops” then why in the world do you want to get into a house now? And once again, it appears that you have fallen prey to the typical American’s shortsighted “me first, I want mine” thinking. Do you realize the damage this housing “crisis” has caused our economy? Are you that stupid? You will be crushed by your own folly.
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
Done…. This is what I sent:
Greeting Senator,
For years now I have seen a ‘false climate’ in housing prices created by loose lending standards, fake appraisals, and a corrupt real estate industry. Now that the housing bubble has finally burst and prices are decending to be inline with people’s income, why must the government insist on creating a policy to falsly inflate housing prices. The $8000 tax credit simply goes into the pockets of sellers and the real estate industry. Please stop using tax dollars to perpetuate the housing bubble.
Thank you for listening.
Sam
Monrovia, CA
Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
Comments: 78
Danville, CA
rmm221 says
how does that help them if they are buying a house that is 5-10% overpriced, AT LEAST. they will be underwater the second they move in… if they can’t buy a house without the tax credit, then they probably shouldn’t be buying a house to begin with! $8000 doesn’t even cover agent fees in most areas… people should save before making the biggest investment of their lives, and know what they are getting themselves into also…. how many people do you know that have used the $8,000 tax credit that fully understand what they just got themselves into?
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
Ah, this is an ammendment to the “Jobless Bill” which extends unemployment benefits:
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?parm1=1&docID=cqmidday-000003231952
But I still don’t know the bill number for that.
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2
Comments: 761
Patrick .. my best guess is it will be bill #666
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
Calls made. Thanks for the update.
Joined: 7 May 2007
Posts: 27
Comments: 588
Davis, CA
Registered my discontent referred to Dodd-Lieberman-Isakson amendment as since I didn’t see a bill number.
Not that Boxer or Feinstein are likely to listen but there’s always a first time.
Joined: 3 Apr 2005
Posts: 429
Comments: 1230
Menlo Park, CA
It is an ammendment to the unemployment extension bill — they tack on the bad ammendments to popular bills.
I looked on http://thomas.loc.gov and can’t tell which one it is. Several of them mention unemployment.
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 0
Comments: 42
I hate Realtors! I hate Realtors!
I gave up my Real Estate Broker license after 30 years!!
Realtors are so scummy, they are lower than “used car” salespeople.
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 0
Comments: 9
4X, Sorry for the Confusion.
No, I’m NOT Saying Buy Now.
I’m saying that it is Sickening, how so many Politicians ’say’ they want AFFORDABLE HOUSING, but so many want to keep the Prices INFLATED…
I believe the ‘Bottom has Fallen Out’ Scenario has Ended. (The Major Earthquake Hit, but there will be some Tremors Rumbling. lol)
The Cost of Borrowing is going to go UP, since Many People BUY, based on that MONTHLY Payment (Not Price), if the Rates go up, the ones who want to sell will have to LOWER their Prices (For that MONTHLY Payment to be made).
What I am saying is, the Government doesn’t need to keep Worrying about Falling Home Prices.
Everyone has got over the Major Jolt (10% - 60% Crashes), any declines now, will not be of any ‘Crises’ Level.
I think the Country as a Whole, is Still ‘Numb to the CRASH’ of Housing Prices. (Except Patricks Readers, who were Warned Ahead of Time to the Coming Crash. Patrick Rocks :))))
So, Another 10% - 20% decline over the next 6 - 24 Months, wont SHOCK Many People.
That is what I was trying to Convey, holding out for another 8 - 18 Months for the Final Decline to take place, before Buying.
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 475
Or young couples could rent and save their money up to buy. Whatever happened to that model? If they can’t make the grade, they shouldn’t depend on grub staking by the government.
It’s like black Friday at Wal-Mart has become the economic model for our entire nation. Smash ‘n’ grab!
Joined: 3 Apr 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 3
Feinstein is already voting “yes” for the continuation. If you send her an email urging her to vote “no”, she ignores you. If you send her an email with a “please-vote-for-the-tax-credit,” she sends you a “I too hope this program can continue…” email.
She’s paid by NAR, not us.
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 38
“It’s like black Friday at Wal-Mart has become the economic model for our entire nation. Smash ‘n’ grab!”
AND continuing in the analogy mode: Remember what happened to the poor bastard making minumum wage trying to hold back the barbarian Americans pushing, shoving and stampeding to get $19.95 VCR’s and further worship at the altar of Wal-Mart? He was trampled to DEATH over plastic cheap leaded sh*t from China “on sale”. Dead. A greeter, Working at Wal-Mart…
Well, My Fellow Americans/taxpayers/’consumers’ YOU AND I are the poor dead trampled bastards. Forget about that ‘birds and the bees’ conversation, how you going to explain to your children/grandchildren they are debt slaves forever?
Remember: The recession is over. Housing starts (we need more empty houses no one can afford) and autos (cash for clunkers = $ TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND PER CAR COSTS FOR GOV-what agreat deal, more ‘consumers’ trading in good paid for cars for new ones thay cannot afford) have powered usa out of the recession. Hail Heil MaObama and the MSM propoganda team.
Goebbels would blush.
Joined: 2 Jul 2009
Posts: 2
Comments: 37
Protest credit card companies!@ I tore up my credit card this week, yet I am getting applications in the mail for more plastic.
Here’s what you can do. Do what I did. If you get a credit card application, it will show the $35 overdraft fees and other bullshit. Send back the self addressed envelope to them with the outrageous fees circled and then put a quick note, SCREW YOU BASTARDS WITH YOUR BULLSHIT FEES! on it and return it to them in the self addressed postage paid envelope.
Everyone can do this, it doesn’t cost a dime and sends a message to the credit card companies calling their bs. Time to rise up.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
smash n grab!…LOL
Joined: 8 Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Comments: 30
Woodbridge, CA
Senator Feinstein’s husband is Richard C Blum Director of CB Ellis Realty. She should recuse herself for conflict of interest—especially in a community property state like California , where all her husbands profits and wealth from Real estate are shared DIRECTLY with Senator Feinstein. Where is the mainstream media on this?
Joined: 6 Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Comments: 137
boys and girls…
save your breath!
unless CAMPAIGN_FINANCE_REFORM passes (aka all elections are funded by public, and no private money allowed), you can blog/tweeet/facebook all you want…
special interests will win the day
Joined: 23 May 2009
Posts: 2
Comments: 665
Patrick says
Patrick, you’re a smart guy, but I think your logic about the 8K credit making prices go up 8K isn’t very sound.
For one, it’s not like buyers are paying cash, so an 8K tax credit is not anywhere close to the same thing as an 8K rise in prices. You could reasonably make the case that it would lead to a 40k increase (treating the 8K as the difference in down payment requirements), though even that ignores a whole host of factors.
Besides that, prices haven’t gone up since the credit was created. You can argue that prices would have fallen faster without it, but it’s really difficult to gauge where sales would have been without the credit, because as we already know, most buyers who have bought in the last year say that they would have bought even without the credit.
So I do agree with your general sentiment that the tax credit is probably artifically boosting prices, I disagree completely on the basis.
I think that the real impact has been that the $8k credit has allowed a lot of people who have ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS buying a home the means to purchase one.
If you don’t have enough money in the bank for the 3.5% (plus the 1 point up front mortgage insurance) that the FHA requires, you shouldn’t be buying a house. That $8k has allowed people who live paycheck to paycheck already, with absolutely nothing in savings, to have enough money for their down payments, essentially continuing the “no money down” hole that we’ve been in for quite a while.
If you dropped all of those buyers from the market (and by most estimates it’s something like half of all first time buyers these days), you’d see the following cycle:
- Prices on the bottom of the market homes get reduced substantially, since they are no longer competing for low-end buyers, but rather for more well off buyers who are just looking for a really good deal. In order for the $100k fixer to compete with the $250k “starter home” new construction, the fixer is going to need to lower the price.
- The new construction starts to see sales slacking, and they, too, must cut prices
- The upgrade market starts to see fewer people with enough equity to upgrade, so sales go down and they also cut prices.
I’m skeptical that this will happen though. I firmly believe that the government’s current strategy is to let prices fall so gradually that mortgage payments keep principal balances ahead of the home’s value, thereby reducing mortgages. In this way, even though somebody may lose $50k on their home, they’re also unlikely to walk away from the $25-30k of equity that they have in it.
Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 1
Comments: 7
for those who like the inet way, can this be “adapted”?
http://takeaction.realtoractioncenter.com/campaign/hbtc_goo
by the way, i found as an ad link on http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ of all the places, how long before patrick.net will have it
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 475
Whaaaa????
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 6
Comments: 10
Brooklyn, NY
Done — left a message with Congressmen Anthony Weiner and Senator Charles Schumer.
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 310
Congressional ethics report leaked, reveals names
WASHINGTON – Internal investigations into the conduct of over two dozen House members have been exposed in an extraordinary, Internet-era breach of security involving the secretive process by which Congress polices lawmaker ethics.
Revelations of the mostly preliminary inquiries by the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct — also known as the Ethics committee — and a panel that refers cases to it shook the chamber as lawmakers were immersed in a series of scheduled votes Thursday.
The panel announced that it was investigating two California Democrats — Reps. Maxine Waters and Laura Richardson — even as its embarrassed leaders took pains to explain that several other lawmakers also were identified in the leaked confidential committee memo but may have done nothing wrong.
The committee said it was investigating whether Waters used her influence to help a bank in which her husband owned stock, and whether the couple benefited as a result. Separately, the panel is looking into whether Richardson failed to disclose required information on her financial disclosure forms and received special treatment from a lender.
LOL! Maxine Waters is investing money into Banks! those evil banks she wanted to nationalize…
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 38
“Congressional ethics report leaked, reveals names”
None of them named has a worry or care in the world as this latest scandal relates to them. Der Fuherer Benito MaObama has suspened the rules of law and has appointed a ineffective useless punk to be his puppet AG. Never in history have so many felons roamed free in Washington. There ARE NO ethics or laws for these people. PUNISH THE GUILTY.
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 1372
Patrick says
It is worse than that, Patrick.
The price will go up more than the $8k. Remember, we are talking about Joe Howmuchamonth. Money that Joe will get back next April will not affect what he will spend now. The issue is when the $8k can be applied to the down payment that will have Joe overspending again. Since the Goldman-Gov Financial Complex is aware of the Downpayment Effect, you can bet your last dime than any “credits” will be allowed to apply to the down payment.
Do you think “Cash for Clunkers” would have been as popular if the car buyer received his “credit” next April, rather than right away at the dealership?
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 38
HeadSet: I salute you. Now THAT is an accurate moniker: ‘Joe Howmuchamonth’
I also like ‘Joewhenaretheygonaputusout’ . Have a Great (Depression) weekend all and keep the pitchforks Ready.
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 1372
javco says
Thanks, but I didn’t coin that moniker. I read it long ago on this blog, maybe from HARM.
I tried to push “MPM” or “Monthly Payment Man,” to refer to that joker who sees affordability only in terms of whether his monthly income can support the minimum payments on his accumulated debt. Never caught on.
Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 5
“…it’s just a nice perk to help offset other costs in acquiring a home for young buyers. I factored that my tax incentives to buy in 2010 would be around $20K! That would replenish my FHA 3.5% downpayment in a $500K home!… That’s a pretty big incentive… especially if you assume that $500K home atleast holds its value for 10-15 years.. even if it doesn’t appreciate… You still made $20K in free govt money…”
That was from an earlier post and that is exactly my concern about this. Is this not just another attempt to help stabalize banks. We all know these banks are about to see a flood of foreclosures in the higher end areas and they have just taken a major hit with Subprime. So isn’t this just an attempt to get the toxic loans off the banks books and shift them to an FHA loan. The banks takes a smaller mark down and then when the incentive is gone and the other shoe drops the taxpayer is left holding the bag.
Am I crazy or do I smell big time scam here.
Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 4
Comments: 475
Bingo. This has actually be pointed out elsewhere, but I forget where.
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 0
Comments: 16
I will write the following people, and ask them to oppose this bill:
President
Vice President
Both NJ Senators
My Congressman
Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
Ugh.
People in the USA have been asleep at the wheel for so long, the corruption and graft is so complete, that short of a pitchfork campaign to unseat all incumbents (except for Ron Paul) is the ONLY possible way that we have to try to turn around this sinking ship.
If you have children (I do not) and you sit fat and dumb thinking other people will do the heavy lifting for you, you deserve what you get and you can take pathetic pride that you turned your kids into serfs as Obama is the first post-American president (do not count on him to help) and federal-state-local pols are 95+% criminal.
Go back to the Constitution. It is the ONLY thing that got us this far. We are losing it and, therefore, our way of life going forward.
People who bite on this $8K - after they have just witnessed what has transpired over the last 2 years - are complete fools and deserve to be debt-slaves.
If no real change? Answer: don’t work. Suck off the nanny state and “get by”. How sad.
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
Just a side note. Add more misery to US govt. CIT files for chapter 11. Taxpayers are out of 2.3 billion that govt. pumped in to help them.
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091101/ap_on_bi_ge/us_cit_group_bankruptcy
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 1372
dadab says
Not to mention the stockholders who will lose all they had invested. Wonder how the executives fared. Any bonuses?
And if Goldman Sachs is a creditor, I would bet they will get 100% of their money back, even as other creditors get only a fraction. Just like with AIG.
That $2.3 billion obviously could have been better spent creating jobs by improving infrastructure.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@Kevin
Yes he is…he has saved me 300K and a lot of hard work that would have been invested should I have purchased during this downturn. Personally, I believe that the 8K credit has played a major part in the upswing in sales therby stabilizing home prices for the time being. Everyone around me is in disbelief when I tell them home prices are still dropping…until I show them this chart depicting home prices in my neighborhood. Recently, there has been a slight stabilization.
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 310
“That $2.3 billion obviously could have been better spent creating jobs by improving infrastructure.”
Fixing pot holes and roads lasts a few weeks. One trick pony… What than ?
Should we not be giving out incentives to our industries and corporations to hire more people ?
Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Comments: 1372
thomas.wong87 says
And when the incentives end, they lay off the new hires?
Joined: 3 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
I sent both Senators an email. It got this too late in the evening for a call. Hopefully the Texas senators aren’t too interested in creating a bubble in Texas housing since we had a housing depression here in the 1980’s. But, there are probably 500,000 realtors in this state along with half as many mortgage officers. I am really getting tired of whores throwing money the way of other whores if you know what I mean.
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 38
Here’s an article about a longtime local pol that has been in Washington as a
‘lobbyist” . Maybe you can contact him and he can help you? poster wrote “I am really getting tired of whores throwing money the way of other whores if you know what I mean.” Hmmm. Good Point. Me Too. Read On:
Dellums could owe $239,000 in taxes
Mark Costantini, The Chronicle
Ron Dellums, who earns about $184,000 as Oakland mayor on top of a congressional pension, appears to owe the Internal Revenue Service at least $66,554. A lien has been placed against his property for failing to pay taxes for 2006. According to the East Bay Express, which broke the story, Mayor Dellums and his wife, who file jointly, may owe more than $239,000 in taxes, mostly for the years he worked as a lobbyist in Washington, DC.
Though there has been some speculation that Mayor Dellums would run for reelection, this confirms long-standing rumors that he has financial problems that are exacerbated by his job as mayor. The failure to pay taxes on what is undoubtedly a comfortable income is also an embarrassment to the mayor. It is unclear how the tax dispute arose or will be resolved; normally, taxes are a private matter, but the filing of the lien created a public record discovered by the Express.
Read more at EastBayExpress.com.
Posted By: Jonathan Bair (Email) | November 03 2009 at 09:20 AM
Listed Under: News
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/inoakland/detail?entry_id=50876&tsp=1#ixzz0Voww3wEZ
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
Keep all the 8K…15K…future house buying hand outs coming until all of our social security is wiped out(with the support of Iraq,Afghanistan and future wars). Let’s do that. Let’s buy houses because that is the most important thing do as of now. All I need is a house(sorry a HOME) I don’t care if I have money for my health care,grocery,gas etc. once I retire.
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@DADAB
You will like this one.
The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.
Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.
Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.
The “War on Poverty” started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to “the poor”; it hasn’t worked and our entire country is broke.
Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you’ve had 44 years to get it right; they are broke.
Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 9
Comments: 52
It looks like this thing is going through. I went to look at an open house the other day in the Chicagoland area. The realtor told me the house would probably rent for $1600/mth.
And with 20% down mortgage the PITI would be $1779 with the 369 grand asking price. So there is clearly still a bubble in Chicagoland. If one were to buy a house here and rent it out, they would have serious negative cash flow. Hopefully by next May, the government will be forced to retreat from their insane subsidies to homeowners and let the housing market return to some semblance of sanity.
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 0
Comments: 3
Here the mail I wrote
Dear Senator,
“Please vote against the Dodd-Liberman_Isakon Amendment” Here is why:
Tax dollars can be spent only when it works towards creating jobs. The cash for clunkers is a great program as it restarted manufacturing. It was success because of giving credit for buying NEW fuel efficient cars but not USED fuel efficient cars.
Dodd-Lieberman-Isakson Amendment does the exact opposite in housing. Tax dollars should not be spent on buying used homes. It will not create jobs. It will only fill pockets of Realtors, mortgage brokers and Banks “who are axis of evil” for the past bubble.
No real economic activity will be there unless you give the credit to buy new homes. Even you can increase the credit and extend it for two years, but do it only for NEW homes
“LET US GIVE MONEY TO CREATE NEW JOBS NOT TO FILL the pockets of the axis of evils”
Regards,
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
While Obama was campaigning I did not understand that the change he’s talking about is this $8K credit. He has kept his campaign promise. Go grab the change guys.
Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
Comments: 78
Danville, CA
passed in the senate….here we go again!!!!
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 2
STOP trying to keep housing EXPENSIVE!!!!! Let free markets be FREE!
Joined: 4 Jul 2009
Posts: 10
Comments: 115
The senate has also extended the unemployment to 99 weeks.
Who is going to want to hire someone who has been out of work for two years and has lost most of the job skills they once had?
They took my credit card away and I have had the same job for the past seven years so I don’t see how all these long term unemployed people will ever re-establish their credit let alone be able to buy real estate.
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 102
Cypress, CA
pinnacle says
Don’t need to re-establish credit. Taxpayers picks up the Tab!
Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Posts: 30
Comments: 762
@pinnacle
Send us links to these programs where we can research them?
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 8
Comments: 186
Sunnyvale, CA
As we all know, our voices are worthless:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125745002293831629.html
Congress Extends Jobless Benefits, Home-Buyer Credit
Joined: 7 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
Comments: 78
Danville, CA
to obamas desk… will he stop it? never in a million years …. sad, sad, sad
Joined: 6 Nov 2009
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
Sounds good to me http://www.realtor.org/press_room/news_releases/2009/11/extension_positive
why not. Any of you in the construction business? Cause if you were you would totally want this to pass.
Joined: 4 Jul 2009
Posts: 10
Comments: 115
So today we have “official” unemployment at 10.2 percent and “underemployment” at 17.5 percent.
This obviously takes a lot of people out the market for buying houses for a long time.
What may be more significant is the the average work week for those who still have
supposedly “full time” employment is only 33 hours which is another 17.5 percent reduction in labor utilization.
All of these currently employed people will get those 7 work hours back before any new full time
workers are hired so the idea of a fast upturn in employment does not make much sense.
Last month 61,000 more construction workers were laid off even with the 8000 tax credit so
that does not seem to be “saving” any jobs either.
Joined: 2 Feb 2010
Posts: 0
Comments: 1
I’ve been renting and saving up 3K a month over the past 4 years. I will continue to save for the next 3 years and have about $250K cash then I’ll buy a home without getting raped by the brokers and real estate agents. People need to change how they buy things now a days.
One lesson learned that we should all take from this
Don’t buy it till you have the cash. That goes for anything.
Just like our grandparents use to do it… It’s time to go back to the old skool way of doing things….