Adults learn to swim in 6 Day phoenix Vacation - End of Fear! (Advertisement)

I don't even know what to think.


By surfer-x   Follow   Tue, 11 Apr 2006, 11:31pm   5,048 views   175 comments
Watch (0)   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

Bubble Conspiracists Unite!

Ok, so a friend I've know since grade school forwarded me this jibber jabber bull$hit email. At first read it is just pure crap, but as I read on I realized that this embodies current Amerika; I believe this thinking to be the origins of the real estate bubble.

We deserve it. It being many things. We as Amerikans deserve cheap gas, big massive asses and cars, and the ability to borrow Chuck, borrow.

Let it rip.

Trolls need not apply.

Copyright Surfer-X
All rights reserved, all wrongs denied.

"GAS WAR - an idea that WILL work

This was originally sent by a retired Coca Cola executive It came from one of his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. It's worth your consideration.

Join the resistance!!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $ 4.00 a gallon by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent, united action. Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea. This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day" campaign that was going around last April or May!

The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt" ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work. Please read on and join with us!

By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $2.79 for regular unleaded in my town. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the marketplace..not sellers With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

How?

Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price war.

Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out on me at this point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000)..and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers. If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all! (If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do is send this to 10 people.... Well, let's face it, you just aren't a mathematician. But I am . so trust me on this one.) :-)

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you! Acting together we can make a difference.

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK"

« First     « Previous     Viewing Comments 136-175 of 175     Last »     See most liked comments

  1. requiem


    Follow
    Befriend
    337 comments

    136   1:58pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    My work comes with a free gym membership, but I prefer to get my exercise outside of the gym (play with the local soccer club, etc.).

    A friend told me about the state of things in Kansas. Apparently the only thing to do there is go to the local Hometown Buffet and eat. Then, they go play softball. (Which, you have to admit, isn't overly energetic.) the end result? Almost every block has a Hometown Buffet and a sports medicine clinic, and the people are still.. well... "cornfed".

  2. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    137   1:59pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    What kills me is that until very recently, people bought foods with partially hydrogenate oil in the belief that they’re healthier than butter.

  3. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    138   2:01pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)  

    What kills me is that until very recently, people bought foods with partially hydrogenate oil in the belief that they’re healthier than butter.

    LARD!

  4. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    139   2:07pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    maybe we should invest in lard in anticipation of new FDA guidelines

  5. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    140   2:12pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Are the fat kids just living on fast food?

    Probably. As a kid, I ate 4 meals a day and I was not fat. I never had a sweet tooth though.

  6. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    141   2:14pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I got fatter only after I started driving everywhere. :(

  7. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    142   2:19pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    SoftestLanding,

    Oh, I don’t know. But I bet a lot of realtors will be happy to help you.
    (not investment advice)

  8. Randy H


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    44 threads
    4,602 comments
    Los Altos, CA

    143   2:21pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    SoftestLanding,

    Download this, study it, show it to your realtor(tm) and ask him/her why you should listen to them instead.

  9. HARM


    Follow
    Befriend (1)
    119 threads
    4,785 comments
    HARM's website

    144   2:26pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    SQT, why is being debt free so special? We still have to buy food and pay for other necessities. These are all streams of negative cashflow, just like debt repayment.

    SQT answered:

    I think it’s psychological. To be able to allocate funds where we want to vs. where we have to. Obviously there will always be necessities, but as long as we can budget ourselves an keep our purchases well within our means, we don’t have to pay interest on them. Debt free to me means that we can save and make cash purchases rather than put everything on credit.

    I agree and would go one further: it's not just psychological. Being debt-free gives you much more power over your life and the freedom to make life/career choices you otherwise could not.

    If you're $100K in hock thanks to B-school student loans, plus another $600K in hock thanks to your San Diego 2Bdm condo, are you going to take a job sabbatical and join the Peace Corps for a couple of years? I don't think so. For that matter, are you going to quit and retrain with the long-term aim of getting a better job/career, which has the potential to make you happier or materially better off in the future (but much poorer in the short run)? Not likely. And as a result of your artificially limited choices, both you and society suffers.

    You're a slave to your debt, plain and simple. Either you pay down your debts or otherwise get rid of them and voluntarily downsize your lifestyle, or you stay where you are --enslaved to your creditors. And that's just the way the Fed/Pols/lenders want it.

  10. LILLL


    Follow
    Befriend
    472 comments
    Idyllwild, CA

    145   2:28pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Don't worry ...all the FBs will be on the 'grief diet' soon enough!

  11. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    146   2:30pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    "all the FBs will be on the ‘grief diet’ soon enough!"

    is that the all Yoshinoya diet?

  12. HARM


    Follow
    Befriend (1)
    119 threads
    4,785 comments
    HARM's website

    147   2:33pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Partially hydrogenated fats and HF corn syrup will be dealt with only when the food industry sees them as unprofitable to use. Unfortunately, they are still seome of the cheapest ways to produce foods with long shelf life. The one glimmer of hope is a groundswell against these two by consumers.

    Excellent point, Skibum.

    Unfortunately, there aren't really any good substitutes for hydrogenated fats in terms of it's ability to provide long-shelf life for packaged foods (yet). Of course, resistance to decay on the shelf is one of the reasons why it is so bad for you --it takes forever to break down in the body, and easily converts to artery spackle. I'm not so sure about HF corn syrup --I see no reason why it cannot easily be replaced right now with Splenda or Stevia.

  13. Randy H


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    44 threads
    4,602 comments
    Los Altos, CA

    148   2:37pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Just a counter-point to being "debt free":

    I agree with what HARM and SQT say, except for circumstances when you:

    * have all or most of the cash (rather liquidity) to pay the debts should something unexpected come up

    * are fairly optimistic about your ability to service the debt, and your optimism is reasonable (for example a new grad can expect their salary to go up by inflation or faster for the first few years of employment)

    * the interest rates are low, probably fixed, and you can earn equal or greater amount with low or similar risk by putting your money to work elsewhere

    Example, when we bought my wife's new car recently, I found that the cost difference between a new car with factory financing (0.9% fixed 3year loan) and buying the car outright, even assuming we'd buy a used model in that case, we still come out slightly ahead by using the debt. If we get in trouble, we'll just pay off the loan, but using the loan we purchased a brand new car for slightly cheaper (total net present value) than buying a used one outright.

  14. FormerAptBroker


    Follow
    Befriend
    1,378 comments

    149   2:38pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    SF Woman wrote:
    "Does anyone have suggestions? Batteries? Tie to grid and just put in an automatic propane back-up generator?"

    Stay away from batteries (big PITA)... Propane or diesel generators are nice, but if you just want to run a fridge and some pumps the best bang for the buck comes from a couple little Honda gas generators (that's what all my friends with homes in the mountains use)...

  15. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    150   2:41pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I agree with Randy. I definitely take advantage of good financing deals.

  16. HARM


    Follow
    Befriend (1)
    119 threads
    4,785 comments
    HARM's website

    151   2:43pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    @Randy H,

    Points taken. Some debt at different points in our lives is unavoidable, or even beneficial, per your interest rate-ROI arbitrage scenario. This however assumes that your average schmo is:

    1. Financially literate enough to understand the above.
    2. Intelligent/self-restrained enough not to get into debt beyond reason, or take excessive risks to buy frivolous crap.

  17. HARM


    Follow
    Befriend (1)
    119 threads
    4,785 comments
    HARM's website

    152   2:43pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Randy H & Peter P do NOT = typical American debtor

  18. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    153   2:54pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    The new SUVs have backup cameras that show what is behind you on the GPS screen.

    This is a good feature. GPS should become standard.

  19. Randy H


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    44 threads
    4,602 comments
    Los Altos, CA

    154   2:59pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Randy H & Peter P do NOT = typical American debtor

    I'm the sort that gets more excited about a good arbitrage opportunity than the superbowl. That isn't typical?

  20. HARM


    Follow
    Befriend (1)
    119 threads
    4,785 comments
    HARM's website

    155   3:06pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I’m the sort that gets more excited about a good arbitrage opportunity than the superbowl. That isn’t typical?

    Umm... suuuure. :roll:

  21. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    156   3:07pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Two points regarding debt:

    1. Never use long-term debt to facilitate short-term consumption
    2. Understand the risks involved in leveraged investments

  22. Randy H


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    44 threads
    4,602 comments
    Los Altos, CA

    157   3:15pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    1. Never use long-term debt to facilitate short-term consumption

    It's just a real good idea to try to match durations wherever possible. Don't get a 5 year loan on a car you'll want to sell in 3 years, etc. If you need to to afford it, you can't.

    This raises an interesting issue that has come up as I've been scenario-stress testing "the Bubblizer". I believe I've quantitatively (re)proven the credit-bubble cause for rising house prices. (I say that sarcastically...I should have known better).

    I can demonstrate that, because of tax benefits (both interest deduction and no cap gains), you are better off as a home debtor paying off minimal principal, owning minimal equity, and staying in your house for the fewest number of years. What!?! That is crazy talk, you say.

    Well, the problem is that there is no priced-in risk adjustment for "what about if/when the music stops?" I tried to do this in the last version, but it's tough to do without Fewlesh-style (Fewlesh is an uber-quant semi-regular poster here) full simulation. In my model, you still are always better using crappy financing because taxes favor you being irresponsible.

    I'm going to uninstall Excel.

  23. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    158   3:19pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    It’s just a real good idea to try to match durations wherever possible. Don’t get a 5 year loan on a car you’ll want to sell in 3 years, etc. If you need to to afford it, you can’t.

    I agree.

  24. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    159   3:22pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I’m going to uninstall Excel.

    Well, I am the kind of person who will optimize a model until it is useless.

  25. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    160   4:13pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    "I’m the sort that gets more excited about a good arbitrage opportunity than the superbowl. That isn’t typical?"

    Of course that's typical, most Americans find football boring, obscure and incomprehensible.

  26. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    161   4:20pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I'd say a person have to take on some debt (in the form of low fixed interest rates and good 0% balance transfer deals) to stay ahead in this so called low inflation economy. The borrowed amount gives me some liquidity to play with if things get ugly.

  27. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    162   4:36pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    If you are externally motivated, you may just as well take on more financial obligations or you may get stuck in complacency.

    Not financial advice

  28. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    163   4:40pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    Consumer credit is still incredibly easy to get and very very cheap. From my fairly unsophisticated perspective, that is the big arbitrage opportunity.

    Unfortunately for the economy, tons of specuvestors knows too, without ever learning the definition of arbitrage.

    (not financial advice)

  29. HARM


    Follow
    Befriend (1)
    119 threads
    4,785 comments
    HARM's website

    164   5:15pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  
  30. Peter P


    Follow
    Befriend (4)
    117 threads
    17,701 comments

    165   5:25pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    coming out of Calistoga and going onto the Petrified Forest Road my GPS shows me driving through the trees for about 1/2 mile

    GPS cannot obtain a good signal in the forest.

    You will discover more glitch. Mine shows that I am on a frontage road when I am on the freeway from time to time.

  31. OO


    Follow
    Befriend
    1 threads
    3,248 comments

    166   5:35pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Duration match is an old technique at banks before the popularization of derivatives, my first summer job was to sit at a Japanese bank's treasury dept of a local regional operation tallying all commercial loans and sorting them by duration, of course that was almost 20 years ago.

    Nowadays, I heard no more commercial banks do that, you can always derivitatize or securitize the hell out of your loan portfolio.

  32. HARM


    Follow
    Befriend (1)
    119 threads
    4,785 comments
    HARM's website

    167   5:37pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    @o.t.,

    No way one oddball sale is going to make a difference and know way you'd ever talk anyone else into buying into this idea. The market will correct of its own accord, so there's no reason to worry about it.

    Personally, if I lived in a bubble area, I'd sell it pronto before values come down any further. I'd sell it for market price and feel *no guilt whatsoever*. The specuvestor a$$holes who drove prices through the roof on me & millions of other working class people felt ZERO guilt about maximizing their return, so why should I?

  33. OO


    Follow
    Befriend
    1 threads
    3,248 comments

    168   5:39pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I am a bit surprised that no one has ventured to securitize student loans. Ivy Leauge student loans bundled with AA rating, UC system A...Then of course 10 years down the road, we have enough statistics to tell if the Ivy graduates are living up to their reputation, at least in the loan-repayment aspect.

  34. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    169   5:40pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    o.t.,

    Nah, you're just risk adversed. However, be careful about holding bonds because while you're almost certainly assured of a nominal dollar yield, that amount may be less valuable due to inflation.

    I wouldn't sell below market clearing price to pop the bubble. But if I was owning in this bubble, I would sell a little below current market clearing price just so I'd sell to realize a tidy sum from the sale that I can take to the bank. The security of knowing I won't be stuck in a down market makes me a little less greedy about asking price.

    Given the big number of houses on the market and their ever lengthening DOM, I think a lot of current RE sellers are thinking just the same thing as I am in this hypothetical.

  35. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    170   5:46pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Owneroccupier,

    I doubt it. UC students would have lower loan amounts. They're also more likely to have a low key life style. I think that would make UC students a better bet than the Ivies.

    Student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy anyways, so the only way they wouldn't be paid is if someone becomes severely disabled or dead before the loan is up. That's a pretty good risk profile, unless a particular school is full of Sylvia Plaths.

  36. OO


    Follow
    Befriend
    1 threads
    3,248 comments

    171   6:01pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    astrid,

    OK, I buy your arguement. See, one more revenue stream for the ibanking industry. I was half joking there.

    However, I do have an idea for securitization, and I hope someone will do it. Lots of international students come to this country to do law school and business school, in the hope of getting into high paid jobs and staying here permanently. Now, some of them will succeed, some will not. In any case, they usually have a problem accessing the traditional student loan pool, for example, only international students admitted to top business schools can get financing from a commerical bank, those who are shunned from the top schools can get no financing here. I understand perfectly why the commercial banks deny them loan access, because those who graduate from mediocre professional schools with hefty student loans are more likely to default, if they cannot find a job in the US and have to go back to their native country where the pay is significantly lower.

    However, if one can pass on that risk back to, say, international investors, there is money to be made in that bucket for international student school loan. As long as these student loans can be packaged up and sold to a third party, preferably overseas, who cares if they can pay back or not.

    However, the MBS shit that may blow up any time seriously dampen the possibility that such a securitized loan can be launched into the market.

  37. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    172   6:17pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Owneroccupier,

    That is an interesting idea. It would be a valuable service for highly able international students without deep family backing. As you pointed out, this is primarily a problem for professional schools. I can see some value on such contracts. Essentially, an investor is betting that a large enough proportion of them become successful and stay in America, to pay them the principle and a good return...there might be a moral hazard there to encourage more students to go home rather than tough it out in America, but it is an interesting idea.

    I fear too MBS and MBS equivalents will soon be a ugly word on Wall St. This is quite unfortunate, since these securitized loans can be highly valuable tool in the right hands.

    Funny, as I was writing the earlier reply to your first post, I was thinking about how colleges and universities essentially accept candidates as calculated gambles. Starving poets = $ 0, Bill Gates = $1 Billion. Pool them together and you have an endownment. That's actually not so different from what you're proposing, except the potential generosity of an appreciative and wealthy alumni is potentially limitless.

  38. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    173   6:42pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    grrrr, I posted twice. Surfer X or anyone else with editing powers, please erase one of the duplicated and also this post.

  39. astrid


    Follow
    Befriend
    15 threads
    5,071 comments
    astrid's website

    174   6:44pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    o.t.,

    Yeah, it feels like we're standing on quiksand, doesn't it?

  40. Different Sean


    Follow
    Befriend
    2 threads
    2,944 comments
    Different Sean's website

    175   11:11pm Wed 12 Apr 2006   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Bill Gates = $1 Billion

    except bill gates dropped out of college in 1st year in order to exploit the whole PC thing...

    however, he single-handedly makes huge endowments to oxford/cambridge and where ever else, now has a knighthood from the queen, and several hundred honorary doctorates, probably...

    not bad for an early college drop-out...

    i did a computing/electronics degree, and i'd be struggling to start my own lawn-mowing business, let alone do a gatesy...

« First     « Previous comments    

surfer-x is moderator of this thread.

Email

Username

Watch comments by email
Home   Tips and Tricks   Questions or suggestions? Mail p@patrick.net   Thank you for your kind donations

Page took 208 milliseconds to create.