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Have you noticed the number of "For Sale By Owner" listings in your neighborhood? Chances are, they're popping up more and more. Websites like FSBO.com and salebyownercalifornia.com are becoming as common as condoflip websites were less than a year ago.
Why is everyone so quick to sell on their own? Is it because they're greedy and don't want to pay the realtor™ commission fee? Or have the realt-whores finally pi$$ed everyone off?
What's your opinion on the whole thing?
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San Francisco, CA
I personally think a lot of people are getting smart. It's not a greed thing or even a "fed up" thing. Why would you pay someone tens of thousands or dollars for something you could do yourself? It's not like craigslist doesn't work. It's proven to work in the SF Bay area. The only reason a person would give up on FSBO is if they had no buyers and they were really desperate and willing to take a loss. You could put an add in the open homes section of the sunday paper with the same wording that realt-whores do.
3% of 700k is 21k, and 6% is 42k... that's just insane!
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Wow! Where do we start on this one?
Obviously when appreciation is "Fat City" and sellers are already working with their landscaper on the next dream home who has the time to bother with the low lifes that are buying that "dump" they used to live in? Let the realtor orchestrate the bidding war!
Well, I think that time has come and gone and I believe there are two basic "types" that go FSBO.
The brazenly over confident that "know" that hiring a realtor, tax accountant or doctor is just a waste of money. They're a HS grad. and they've gotten this far in life. Besides they can use the "extra" money to take that well earned vacation.
The trembling that are pretty sure they should have sold in______ and are now furiously scrambling to get out from under something they KNOW they can't afford.
A third potential category is the older empty nester couple that don't care when, if or for how much their place sells for. They've always wanted to live in_______. If it takes longer then so be it.
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Oh, btw I think most everyone "should" go FSBO if they at all can. Scott J is right but my comments were more based on why all the interest in FSBO "now".
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astrid's website
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I think FSBO are all greedy, or at least frugal. However, only a small portion of them are smart. To do FSBO properly require figuring out the right price and figuring a way to crack the MLS monopoly. It also means being familar with the process. A lot of FSBO on C/L and elsewhere think they can stick a sign in the front yard and ask for above market prices.
On top of that, I think a good RE agent can have a lot of pull in a RE office, and direct undiscriminating buyers towards a listing. This isn't a huge deal in a hot market, but will be important in a cold market.
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nomadtoons's website
I've noticed quite a few people in my neighborhood doing this. In every single case, the owners are usually poor, and asking way, way way more than the house is worth. We're talking 1.2 million, 960k, 875k respectivly on smaller 2 and 3 bedroom houses. Two of them are always open. They sit with signs up around the block 24 hours a day. This has been going on for months now and none are selling. The stupidity is that these are most likely less monied long time residents who would pocket most of the sale price, yet it's taken over 4 months for one of them to "lower" the price by a mere 7k. I would call them both greedy and stupid.
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SHE'S BACK! ASTRID IS BACK EVERYBODY!
Had me worried ther for a little bit but she's back, and in a big way!
"However, only a small portion of them are smart"
SQT had C/L figured out some time ago. Home of the desperate........ and the delusional.
That's not to say it can't work but so many of the listings I've seen come under "courting a lottery winner" b/c there is no way the seller's asking price can be met with a loan!
Good to have ya' back astrid!
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nomadtoons's website
To add more to my previous post, I just find it so stupid that a long time resident simply can't accept the case of selling at or possibly below market. I mean- cmon.. $650k for a piece if shit overated prefab? You can STILL buy a very, very nice home in a very nice area somewhere other than CA. I'd do it in a heartbeat. I hope these greedy SOB's get screwed.
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O.K. willywhopper2 is back!
"greedy AND stupid"
I like it.
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astrid's website
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DinOR,
My ISP went on the blinker for most of this week.
I won't be here long though. My together-together time with the ole boyfriend is coming up. I'll be out of action for the next couple weeks as we go see more of God's glorious Roadrunner and Coyote country.
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SQT,
I'd have to agree. It would have to be one sweet deal for me as a buyer to contemplate that. More of a "one of a kind" type of deal. And yes FSBO's in Oregon seem to be priced above broker listed homes. Weird huh?
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nomadtoons's website
I think the whole opinion of people who might have owned their property pre-boom is very diffrent than those that bought during or post. It would be like if you owned a 93 Chevy Lumina. Big deal. gets you point A and B. Suddenly, people will pay you 60k for it. Holy crap! So it's like magical money from heaven. Doesn't matter who has the money or if it's overpriced. The neighbors got "X" for theirs, so you'd better get more for yours. They very likely view the people paying this kind of money for a house totally stupid or insane, so if they price it into the stratosphere, then there's just surely got to be a bigger idiot out there. The fact that people were willing to pay more than anyone ever expected for a stucco and wooden box is a mystery enough, so logic doesn't seem to apply. As a result they ignore basic economic fundementals and the changing selling atmosphere.
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astrid,
Bummer. But at least you'll be able to provide us with some "on-sight" intel from CO. I mean have some together-together time w/your boyfriend!
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Los Altos, CA
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I tend to agree that most FSBOers are either too greedy, too delusional, or too ignorant (or uninformed). There should be enough alternatives to full-commission agents and brokers now to satisfy the frugal. For the smart, they realize that selling in a sinking market is EXACTLY WHEN you need one of those few good agents on your side. FSBO in 1999 or 2002, sure you could probably have pulled it off with just a sign in your yard. But that was an aberration, not the norm.
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astrid's website
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When my parents were selling, we got probably the top agent for their home area and she asked 2% for herself and gave us 6 hours (which came up to be more like 10 hours) of handyman service. She still made money, but my parent s would not have sold for nearly so much and so quickly if she wasn't involved.
If I was an experienced seller and didn't mind the hassle, I may go FSBO and offer 4% to buyer's agents or as concession to walk-in buyers. But I sense most FSBO are greedy pennypinchers with little awareness of the market. As WWII said, very few of those types of FSBO seller can sell - and then 6 months later they call in an agent to sell and still no nibbles (because the prices are still too high). Two years later, the 5th agent used finally gets some fools to buy, for way below the original posted price but still above the market price.
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Robert Cote'
Sounds like quite an occasion! I must admit, I'm not altogether suprised by the "listing differential" when we stop to figure in the FSBO's. Can't say that Wrightwood is a typical community but if your assesment is reasonably accurate the inventory could be much greater than any of us can imagine. Perhaps the NAR should start to put a disclaimer* on their reports.
*Our data reflects as accurately as possible the number of single family homes for sale at the time of this report. However; scumbag, greedy and stupid FSBO's are beyond our scope of responsibility to quantify. NAR TM
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tsusiat's website
There are discount services now that will list a house on the MLS for less than $1,000.00, so I don't buy the argument that FSBO lacks exposure.
How many people now use the MLS as a starting point? A lot.
You can easily hire all the necessary attorneys/accountants for a fraction of the cost.
I see web-sites sprouting up to list nationwide soon, I believe the MLS monopoly is soon to be a thing of the past.
RE Agents are in a similar position to travel agents a few years ago. When large numbers of sellers are underwater, alternative means of advertising and closing sales will proliferate.
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tsusiat,
I know it seems like I'm jumping all around on this topic but I do feel somewhat conflicted? I suppose there will always be those that prefer to go full service. Enough to support 500,000 realtors in CA alone? Doubt it. Will realtors cease to exist altogether with widowed grandmothers running their add on Craigslist? I doubt that too. What will likely happen is that just as the brokerage houses have done they will offer different levels of service on a sliding matrix. You're willing to only spend X amount? Great! Love to have your business! When will you be stopping down to pick up your sign? Money is no object? When will you be available to have our "moving coordinator" stop by? And everything in between. Me? I think most folks will elect a "hybrid" between those two extremes but if as George suggests, and the banks get involved....... nobody's gonna be happy.
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tsusiat's website
What is really needed is the equivalent of MLS that can be browsed by cellphone as you drive through a neighbourhood you like. Now that could really take off.
*not dot.com advice* ;)
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tsusiat's website
Sorry this is off topic, but can anybody here who knows coding explain the mechanism by which sites like housing tracker are pulling together their stats?
http://www.benengebreth.org/housingtracker/
Is it likely to be proprietary? If so, how could the site access the data out of the MLS without problems?
The reason I ask is I was mulling trying to do something similar for my local market, but I don't even know where to start.
Thanks.
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Hampton, VA
BuffPilot,
Great technique, and it sounds like you were lucky to be in an up market. Did you sell to an incoming AF member at a small base? Did your network include Housing Referal? As an AF member, do you have experience from several PCS moves in home buying.?
Back in the mid 90's, when we were in a slow market, I bought from a guy going PCS (transfered to a new base, for you non-military types). I caught him before he listed with a Realtor and offered to assume his VA Loan and cover all closing costs. He accepted, and the closing went well. He got to stay in the house until the movers came.
I had made this offer to another fellow, but he turned it down. He listed and his house sat unsold for months after he moved. When it finally sold, it was for slightly less than he paid for it originally. He was also out the commission along with the mortgage payments on his empty home.
I do not understand the "greedy" tag used in several posts. I've often noticed that "greed" is when the other guy wants to keep his money.