WatchEveryone,
I recently offered a banked owned duplex for $330k all cash. The listing agent told my realtor that if he's having action, don't bother. If not, he'll make it ours. I found out that the duplex was sold for $306k all cash to one of his clients. Apparently, he made commission on both ends. The listing agent is well-known to be crooked by a lot of realtors since he double-ended on 90% of all his sales. I told my realtor I am considering suing the listing agent since he likely did not present our offer to the bank. My realtor, which is a good friend of mine, didn't want to do that. The listing agent works for Coldwell Banker. My friend/realtor works for Intero. My friend used to work for Coldwell Banker, and he was in the same office as the listing agent. Basically, he didn't want to burn any bridge. What do you guys think? If you think I should sue, do you know of a good attorney that you can recommend?
Thanks.
E-man
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Glad to hear you are taking some action. It is surprising how many stories like yours you hear out there. With the amount of money involved in real estate transactions there should be more regulation. Good luck setting things straight. Keep us posted.
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Manchester, NH
E-man says
That would be my decision. Don't sue, just let him know once in a while he's going to get caught.
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Sunnyvale, CA
totallyscrewed123 says
Agreed. You shouldnt let this scumbag do what he was doing it. Its at least unethical if not illegal. If I were you, I would write it to the bank VP(you can find it from the web), DRE, Attorney General and to CAR(I know, but sometimes it can work wonders) with all the documentation that you have given an offer and never got a reply while it was closed for 10% lower, not to mention both of them are cash offers. If you want, you can as well send a letter to Milpitas Police crime prevention division. This is grand theft and it needs to be stopped.
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Redwood City, CA
Nice to see you taking some decent action. I was only commenting on a possible solution for you, not one that I would personally take, but it sometimes takes thinking outside the box on how to overcome these issues.
Even if you get nothing from this, just keeping those letters around and letting other realtors know you fully intend to push a matter if you find out you've been cheated and/or the banks have been cheated, you might put yourself into a better position!
Without getting too dramatic a simple verbal mention of your past experience and what you did to help clean up the system, might push a realtor to give your offer preference, just to avoid the possible litigation you could cause for them. Without defending your position or getting into an argument you can simply state that it's been left with banks and authorities to sort out. If there was something fishy done, they will find it. But you won't let that happen to you again. Most people, even if they are clean, don't want the hassle of any authoritative body coming and investigating them.
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Did anything happen?
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E-man says
You go with your True American self, it's something most here wouldn't understand.
Most Patneters are only pissed that THEY missed the boat, rather than they are fed up with the current mode of operation.
Give 'em hell and tell them your Grand Dad sent ya!
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Advice is free so consult with a lawyer. Most lawyers will not charge you anything upfront and only charge % of the judgement.
If there is money involved, your "friend" and a lawyer would not mind a commission, especially if it could be large enough. People don't burn bridges out of ethics, they usually burn bridges when the money is right. If you can get a class action settlement going, even better.
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This same situation just happened to me as well. They accepted a $442k cash offer over our $470k cash offer. Both offers (mine and the winning one) were dual agency. At the same time I know there were offers of $500k+ with financing. Apparently someone else had more pull in the brokerage than the other.
Edit: I just realized this thread is from November 2009. Nice! LOL
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elliemae says
The seller would know what offers they have received and which ones they have not, if being shown a confirmation after the fact. This really doesn't surprise me at all, and at the very least the seller (bank) ought to know that the realtor they hired is a crook (I know, realtor and crook is sort of redundant) cheating them. IMO anything that makes that scumbag agent's life more difficult is worth your time and effort. As for your agent friend, he could be pushing this if he cared about your interests over his own, so don't cave to his personal priorities.
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pkennedy says
Sadly, it's people like you that are why this shit happens. Zero principle, zero integrity, and motivated by ill-gotten wealth and greed.
(yes I know this thread is older than hell, but I'm just going to play along)
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elliemae's website
Mr.Fantastic says
...and here is the place that I can insert a masturbation joke, huh? That's my NY resolution, to keep it up. Pun intended.
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robertoaribas's website
failure to present an offer to an owner absolutely will lose an agent his/her license. So, send your documentation to the DRE. In Phoenix, this would be career ending if solidly documented.
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pkennedy says
So you are advising someone to take an unethical position to result into fraudulent deals by using blackmail? What gives man, this is not right.
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robertoaribas says
What I have found is the REO system does not allow a buyer to make sure the agent is not just sitting on the offers they do not like/want to foreward to the bank. And nobody has any way to track the offer. We ned some daylight in the REO system. On a side note, REwhores get really upset when you question their honesty and ask for proof ... just .. EXACTLY .. like all liars do.
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Campbell, CA
Just do what you think is right.
Well, actually, what is probably right is this guy loses his license and spends a few days in the ER.
Removing the assault aspect, I would personally make some phone calls and raise some royal hell.
Long ago I pushed Pac Bell to the point of having one of their attorneys, their CS exec, the FCC and myself all in a conference call over their standard policy of taxing labor. I was pissed. So pissed.
You'll notice they don't tax labor anymore.
Do what you have the balls to do and what you can sleep with at night.
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@E-man,
Are there any updates on this? I hope he is sued by someone....
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CrazyMan says
Wow. I would totally buy you a beer. Well said.
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Saint George, UT
elliemae's website
klarek says
His pseudonym is "crazy man," and now we know why. Not that he's nucking futs, but he says those things we think but don't say out loud - at least here.
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Mr.Fantastic says
Same here and I lost all my fingers in a grenade accident.
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Arsonist, pederast, wife beater, serial killer, cannibal, attorney, rapist, Zyklon B chemist, neonazi propagandist and Realtor are all types operating at about the same level of trustworthiness. You'd be hard pressed to find a court or jury that would sympathize with someone actually trusting one of these creatures.
I can just see the judge, intoning in grave tones: "To trust one of these criminal psychopaths is the financial equivalent of running into a cage filled with starving hyenas covered in pork gravy. A civil justice system can not be expected to look out for the interests of the dementedly incompetent."
Then again, if you can get a lawyer to take it on contingency and it will tear some meat off of the perp's face, sure, for fun, why not? The world world would be a better place if everyone was suing banksters and dirt merchants every day and demanding the disbandment of the MLS scam.
In fact, given how little money there really is at stake, ask the judge to just rule that the dirt merchant be thrown from a helicopter out over the Pacific somewhere past the 12 mile limit. For the lawyer's commission, just give him the first shot from a Gatling Gun to chase the perpetrator on the way down. Who could say no?
Trust me. You'll get far more satisfaction seeing this criminal freak exploding into bloody shreds, shrieking in mind-melting agony and terror on his way to a watery grave.
Then again, ESPN might bid on the rights to the video.
And if the judge says no to your reasonable request for just compensation, hey, you tried your best to make things right.
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Los Angeles, CA
I have found the crooked agents will do these things which im not sure are legal but are games to 'not get offers' on purpose.
----
1. not return phone calls to realtors who plan to submit offers thus stalling them so they can find/slam thru thier own buyer. (i suppose you could send the offer certified mail but to who/where? its an REO and you dont have that contact info the listing agent does!)
2. instructions say fax offers to a phone#... which go unaknowledged... they simply never get back to you despite multiple follow ups - when you finally get them on the phone 'its already sold! sorry!'
3. home is supposedly for sale and vacant but is locked up tight with chains - no way to see - no lockbox on house even though MLS says there is! -
4. Do not show home allowing them to find own buyer here are some ways I have seen:
a. Do not put home in MLS.
b. stall by a week putting in MLS.
c. put in MLS but put the wrong address (gives you time to find buyer until found out and corrected)
d. put in MLS but at a high price and tell your own buyers the 'real price the bank will accept'.
e. put in MLS but with instructions home not available to show - all offers must be site unseen (except your own buyers get access! haha out of country seller ur fuct !)
5. Discourage agents calling that 'there are already 6 offers - 3 over list' etc. even though its not true. this again gives agent time to find own buyer.
It seems like in order to have a case you have to PROVE IN COURT the listing agent RECEIVED THE OFFER and DID NOT SUBMIT IT to the seller. good luck. I bet the DRE in CA will only pull a license if there is a federal conviction. The fines they impose are a joke -a few thousand$! - haha.
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"full price cash offer already accepted -- you'll have to offer higher than asking."
"all sales have been 110% of asking in this area"
"there is another off $XX,000 more than yours, if you want the house you will have to offer more."
"the bank countered at full price" (buyer says - let me see the documentation of that) "it's all verbal from here on out" ( - ok, call the person that countered and lets get to talking) "what I meant is, it's just email between him and me" ( - ok, give me the email address and we can CC this deal right now) "um ... well ... that's not how it's done ..."
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Pocky, Bap,
Realtard fucks with you like this you hang up and go straight to the office with an 8 gal can of gasoline in one of those outboard can configurations for a motor boat.
Drop it front of the desk and pull out the phukking zippo.
Instruct him that God will make you toss it through the phukking window of the property in question, followed by the lighter if he even breaths before accepting your generous offer.
When dealing with organized crime, you need to speak their language.
You're dealing with a class of people who'd rip their own mother's kidneys with a pitch fork for the right price, probably not too far beyond the cost of a used Toyota.
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APOCALYPSEFUCK says
This one's pretty good. If you are recruiting more friends, this will do it.
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The links may not be around but I came across this....
Headline that i found on the net.. but not able to find details to the article...
"An Ohio court affirmed revocation of license for not disclosing to a client that she could purchase a home for a third less than she planned to offer"
digging deeper found this...
http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/10/2010/2010-ohio-2558.pdf
Appellant showed the property to Myrick and, on April 14, 2005, she made an offer to
purchase the East 22nd property for $64,000. Myrick signed a Disclosure of Investor Fee/Real
Estate Bonus ("Disclosure"), which included the following language: Seller hereby agrees to
pay an investor fee of $18,400 to Randolph & Associates Real Estate, Inc. at closing on
subject property. * * * (Exhibit Q.) {¶7} Myrick apparently signed the Disclosure, but she has
no recollection of doing so, and she testified before the agency that, had she known about
the bonus, she would have offered less based on the fact that the seller was obviously willing
to take less for the property. Indeed, Ellis stated in his affidavit that he would have sold the
property for $35,000 to $45,000.
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Paragraph 17 page 8...
It is true that appellant provided a disclosure form to his client identifying the
bonus, however, Myrick testified that he never told her about the bonus, and that she did
not recall signing the disclosure form. Needless to say, appellant did not have a
meaningful discussion with his client regarding the fact that he was keeping roughly onethird
of the $64,000 purchase price. On a typical transaction of this nature, the real estate
broker would keep six percent or $3,840. Given the substantial discrepancy between the
ordinary broker's commission and the amount appellant received from this transaction, it
was incumbent upon him to do more than to simply include the bonus amount on some
disclosure form and get his client to sign off on it without fully explaining what it means
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COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH: * * * did you explain to her
that [the seller] was willing to take $18,400 less for the
property basically by paying [you] a bonus?
[APPELLANT]: I didn't know he was willing to take $18,400
less.
COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH. If he's paying a $18,400
[APPELLANT]: Obviously, he's netting less but I didn't know
he was willing to take less. He have [sic] never told me that.
COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH: He told you he was going to
[pay you a bonus of] $18,400 on [a] $64,000 sale.
[APPELLANT]: Yes sir. The only thing --
COMMISSIONER FROEHLICH: Does that mean he would
net less?
[APPELLANT]: That means he would net less, yes.
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Beverly Hills, CA
Quote " Crooked Realtor", should I sue" Crooked Realtor? Thats is an oxymoron! I have run into obvious fraud over 30-40 times. But why write a book about it? Thats what they do and thats who they are. Most I have met are poorly educated malcontents who can't hold down a real job and love to have power over honest people. My most recent Example ...Yesterday. I was looking at a HUD house on their official list. The list referred me to a REALTOR in a local office, and I asked two questions about the property. I immediatley got a diatribe about how NOW is the best time to buy and that exact house was the best house at that price and that I should bid more. I told them that HUD had informed me I could bid the asking price they told me I was wrong. So far, just an opinion. Here comes the good stuff. The Realtor immediately added the comment " I am a flipper...do you know what that is " I told her I did not know Realtor jargon. She told me that she has "plenty of houses" that she buys below current market, rents them out and resells HER HOUSES when she finds a buyer. Still not illegal...watch this one. I told her that this was a fantastic story...and if true meant that SHE was competing against ME for the "best deals:, and that she had me at a disadvantage. She knew all legal and other important data about the house that would indicate if this house was a candidate for an offer. She said it was legal..if she waited two weeks. The issue I see...is that I have not received the answers to my two questions...and she was using the HUD and FHA to run a side busi ness for HER convenience and could NEVER legally repersent me like she claimes...because SHE is a legal advocate for herself NOT ME. In private employment she would be fired for conflict of interest. She then tried to find out if I would rent from her!!! Is the REALTOR there for ME...as HUD and SHE led me to believe? Or is she using the trust of a government agency for her own scam? I told her I lived across the street from the house and knew many details of the neighborhood AND was potential cash buyer...if the price was right. She got very upset with me...implying that how dare you know about my scam AND are also a cash buyer---you are ony a renter. She never answered my simple questions about HOW to make a bid. I complained directly to the Office of Inspector General of HUD in Washington DC. I spoke with a very nice investigator who advised me that he receives calls like this about Realtor fraud "ALL DAY LONG"...he took my complaint said technically she had to wait 14 days. I told him that "technically" she was not fulfilling her obligation to HUD or me...as a potential bidder becasue she refused to answer my questions about the property and only spoke about her "side" business...which is the REAL business of Real estate. Side deals for Realtors. IT IS EXACTLY the same as insider trading on a stock issue. She has INSIDE information about the reasons for sale, the motivations, the details that are not on the listing sheet. Last comment. The last comemnt I made to her was..." If you have so many houses and rent to so many people so you can flip for quick money, if the house were a good deal...YOU would make an offer. She replied..."you are correct". This is proof that she is not a BUYERS agent...to legally reprsent me...but she represents ONLY her own self interest. It should be a CLASS A federal offense with 10 years to life...for any Realtor to buy any property designed for the lower socio economic rungs of society. The ONLY REASON FOR HUD...helping indigent and low income people with rent and housing. Instead we have thieves liars and sharks with "credentials" who say they "represent us". Why did she tell me her story? ask me if I wanted to rent from her? Refuse to give me details on the house?
The Inspectors General office referred me to FHA because of her obvious attempt at fraud (adveristing as a "HUD buyers agent"---when NOT true) against FHA rules. HUD now controls the FHA. They transferred me to PIMCO who was handling this house in question. The PIMCO consultant was very upset. He advised me that virtually EVERY TIME he got involved with a REALTOR they made errors on the documents, usually against the buyers..and that many times they were afraid to tell the buyers about their mistakes becasue they didn't want to look bad, and that they usually estimated costs that were much lower than required. He did not LIKE the antics of Realtors. He did give me some food advice...read it here! I think its something that REALTORS already know. He believes that after June 2011...HUD will be discounting prices even more because of the huge inventory. He also advised me he has heard my complaints about fraud waste and abuse by REALTORS specifically, over and over. He said that personally he AGREED that Realtors were stealing opportunities that were supposed to be reserved for those who were trying to buy a house honestly. But he said government policy had to change to stop the Realtors from "abusing the system" for their own use. Good luck...perhaps waiting is the best weapon. Let the market prices drop more and wait and listen for the sounds of Realtors jumping off the roof tops as mortgage interest rates increase and house prices drop more....listen SPLAT! I won't shed one tear for the pain that these GREED-Meisters have subjected us to.
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APOCALYPSEFUCK says
I am going to do that on Dec 12,2012.
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Los Angeles, CA
The 'housing market' has morphed into a CCCP nightmare of corruption, greed, moral hazard and systemic ineffciencies. For gods sake the feds fund/guarantee over 96% of all mortgages.
The best strategy to be an agent I suppose. Or better yet get a job at HUD/BofA/Wells and give sweet deals to your agent friends for $! I know this must be going on!@
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PockyClipsNow says
Joining the dark side will not help defeat the dark side.
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APOCALYPSEFUCK says
I think I love you.
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Vero Beach, FL
There are many factors included in an offer. It's not uncommon for a seller to take less money if the closing was to be earlier and the buyer wasn't asking for inspections.
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Dublin, CA
Cvoc13's website
Ignore can't work when we all quote the Adam Henry (A.H.) aka A$$ O. I have tried to avoid the waste land of some posts that are how shall I say, the last big war! LOL
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Hey, man, I am here for you.
I like the part about the Realtor being torn to shreds on the way down with the fire from a Gatling Gun.
Fucking Justice.
Realors? I heard they're great with mint jelly!
Bwa! Bwahahahahahaha! Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
JimAtLaw says
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San Jose, CA
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avxnj says
Thanks for the reminder. Haha, a blast from the past. Here is the scoop on this transaction.
I talked to an attorney & he wrote a letter to the listing agent. Amazing what you kind of information you could get when the letter came from an attorney. The listing agent sent us a copy of the buyer's offer, termite, home and roof inspection reports.
The original offer was $340k.
Termite, home and roof inspection reports had almost $70k worth of repair. I remember reading the termite report and thought the home was on its last leg. LOL!! It was almost $40k of termite repairs. A lot of repairs reported on the home and roof inspection reports are redundant from the termite damage. Long story short, the buyer went back to the bank & asked for $70k of credit. They apparently settled for $34k, which resulted in a sale price of $306k at the end.
I have to give credit to the buyer and the listing agent. They knew how to tie up the property and went back to the bank to get price adjustment/re-negotiation after the fact. Also, they hired really good inspectors to work in their favor. Based on the information provided to us, the buyer was a woman, who resides in Palo Alto. According to Zillow, her home in PA is worth $2.1M. She bought her home in the 1990's.
Shortly after this, I ran across another similar situation for a home in north San Jose. The housing market was hot in December 2009. A buyer intentionally over-offered for a SFH by $100k. The offer was $600k all cash. However, the property was only appraised at $450k according to an appraiser hired by the buyer. The bank sent out their own appraiser and it came back at $500k, which was a fair market value. Since the market was hot, other buyers were offering between $525k and $540k with financing. With some creative termite, roof and home inspection reports produced by the buyer's inpsectors, the bank agreed to sell it for $460k rather than put it back on the market.
So yes. It can be done. I have to give credit to these buyers because they know how to work the system. Hope patnet readers find this useful.
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San Jose, CA
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CrazyMan says
Crazyman, I like your style. I just want to let this listing agent know that he messed with the wrong guy. I got a phone call from my (former) buddy agent shortly after the listing agent received a letter from my attorney. He was like "you're planning on suing this guy?" Haha. Long story short, the listing agent played his card right because they accepted the highest offer, and the information he provided to us satisfied my attorney and I. Therefore, no lawsuit was filed, but I was out $250 for the attorney to write the letter. A small business transaction cost to get some closure :)
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San Jose, CA
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Cvoc13 says
Wow, you don't give people the benefits of the doubt. You should know that there is life outside of Patrick.net :)
pkennedy and SF ace know how busy I'm for the past several weeks. There are a lot of posts that I have to reply to but I just don't have the time for it. Looks like I will not have much time for Patnet when I go back to work next month. The past 1.5 years of honeymoon is about to be over for me :(
Hope 2011 will be a good year for everyone and the economy.
Cheers.
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Dublin, CA
Cvoc13's website
I would let the attorney decide if it is worth it, how could you calculate your losses, I think you will be able to but the building in three years for 220K so maybe he did you a favor, but that aside, I think you have have damages correct?
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APOCALYPSEFUCK says
I haven't heard that one. Please share.