WatchAll right, my agenda is really Tort Reform, but that is not a realistic goal until we can assume that every human being walking within the bounds of this country has access to health care.
Of course, hard choices must be made, but there are only a few ways to stop the uncontrolled ascend in health care costs:-
1. limiting lawsuits
2. higher deductibles (e.g. first $2500 - $5000 of costs should be paid by the patient every year)
3. reasonable end-of-life decisions (heirs of the estate should make such decision)
4. deregulating medical professionals (we should be able to import cheap sous-doctors from other parts of the world.)
It is unacceptable that American families face financial ruin over unexpected illnesses. It is unacceptable for the health care system to be used as a cash cow for trial lawyers. It is unacceptable for a ponzi scheme health care system, namely Medicare, to exist.
It is also unacceptable for people to be discriminated against based on their income. Any plan to subsidize health care costs of low-income earners amounts to excessive social engineering.
Furthermore, companies should not be given tax-breaks for providing health care benefits because individuals should be incentivized to make health care choices themselves.
I am confident that a well-run universal health care system will cost less to the taxpayers.
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Yacht ownership, on the other hand, is more about opulence.
Most large yachts (longer than 300 feet) are NOT owned by Americans. They usually have Middle-Eastern or European owners.
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What if my religion involves materialism and greed? :-)
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Peter P says
Was anyone arguing that Corporate America doesn't waste money on extravagances? Because I think America is definitely #1 in corporate malfeasance...
How does that help your point though?
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Corporate jet is not an extravagance. I will get back to you on this. I am hungry. Need to get lunch.
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Peter P says
Then you're in business... ;-)
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If the Constitution is the underlying document of conservatives, independents, libertarians, Republicans and other freedom loving, patriotic Americans, what is the underlying document of liberals, free-loaders, Democrats, socialists, and elitists? Anyone?
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elvis says
I'm so tired of this canard.
We liberals, patriots, Democrats, free-thinkers, leftists, independents, progressives, freedom loving Americans, and moral human beings operate from the same US Constitution that the conservatives, Corporate Overlords, fascists, fundamentalists, Republicans, and racists pretend to hold in such high regard whilst pissing all over it.
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No, your kind are the freedom haters and rights destroyers. Moral human beings don't kill their own offspring. Capitalism has created the highest standard of living in the world. How many countries in the world have become prosperous through Socialism? (Hint: NONE). Its your kind, the liberal, democratic, socialistic politicians that completely reject the Constitution...through action, and continue the march toward socialism.
"The real destroyer of liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits." (Translation: he who spreads the wealth).
Ronald Reagan, Oct 27, 1964 (probably said before Owebama was born).
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@Elvis
"your kind"?? nice try. Generalizations are a standard tool of AM radio. Glad you've been listening so well...
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elvis says
Which party passed the Patriot Act? The largest destroyer of rights in US history...
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elvis says
Nice try dude. Keep trying to paint all "liberals" as socialists. But alas, that label doesn't work at all. American Liberals are vehement capitalists. We just want a level playing field. American Conservative Orthodoxy (now that there's a "purity test") wants to give massive "gubmint" subsidies (read "corporate welfare"), tax cuts, and massive controls over labor to their Corporate Masters and the very rich at the expense of the middle classes and poor. Ronnie Raygun wouldn't even meet today's "purity test" for American Conservative Orthodoxy in the Republican party.
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tatupu70 says
I can't wait to read this answer if he ever decides to answer it directly instead of using his usual insults, generalizations, and evasions.
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Oh, I forgot - many are now "Progressives." I'll remember to include that in any future lists of freedom haters and rights destroyers.
Liberals are vehement capitalists? Hahaha, right... and forks cause obesity. "We just want to level the playing field" - spoken like a true socialist. What, the opportunity here in America, that's available to everyone, isn't enough?
And whats hurting the middle class and the poor more than anything is theft by inflation, brought to everyone by the FED, approved by congress.
Purity test? What are you on?
The patriot act does restrict a lot of freedom. The LARGEST destroyer of rights in US History? Based on what? Source please. BTW the act was supported by members of both the Republican and Democratic parties in both houses of Congress, and even though a really terrible Republican president signed it into law - it wouldn't have made it that far without the support of Democrats.
I couldn't help but notice that you attacked the person, Ronald Reagan, but not the message (The real destroyer of liberty is he who "spreads the wealth" - paraphrased, and spoken before anyone knew who B. Obama was, therefore not a "slap" at him).
Would anyone dare to quote a liberal, socialist, free-loader, or "Progressive," with a statement that SUPPORTS individual freedom or liberty for all? You know, something like this: "Who ever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech" (Did I hear someone say "Fairness Doctrine?") Benjamin Franklin, 1706 - 1790.
With the pretense of "helping people" liberal democrats author all kind of stupid laws, all with the seeds of negative unintended consequences, so when things go wrong they scream: "SEE, WE NEED EVEN MORE REGULATION" (Translation: everyone will be getting: less liberty, more taxes, more unintended consequences, less freedom, etc).
The vast majority of job killing Assembly and Senate bills in California are proposed by liberal Democrats. They contain the seeds of: fewer jobs, barriers to affordable housing, higher consumer costs, business development barriers, regulatory burdens, costly workplace mandates, higher taxes, increased employer liability...all of which make businesses less competitive in the world market. All with the pretense of "helping".
"You people" may say that you support freedom and liberty, but your actions say otherwise.
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Elvis--
Anyone who continues to use "you people" loses all credibility with me. If blaming everything on liberals or Democrats helps you sleep at night, then by all means, keep believing it. But if you would like to grow up and understand how the world really works, try broadening your horizons and opening your mind.
As you may have noticed from the health care debate, Democrats are quite a diverse group with many differing views. Painting them all with the same brush is just small minded.
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elvis says
You must be a big fan of orwell. As the FCC opinion killing the "Fairness Doctrine" managed to say, offering opposing viewpoints is actually a restriction on free speech. Perfect orwellspeak. Obedience is freedom, freedom is obedience.
Reagan killed the fairness doctrine because it required users of public airwaves to air opinions on both sides if a broadcaster wanted to air opinions, forcing the right wing broadcasters to include other viewpoints. The key word there is IF. Broadcasters were FREE to not broadcast opinion at all. Broadcaster were FREE to broadcast all the opinion they wanted, as long as they allowed dissenting opinions to be aired. Simple as that. One might note the "Fairness Doctrine" only applied to public airwaves regulated by the FCC. That would be the public airwaves belonging to liberals as well as conservatives.
Some people seem to be very selective in how they apply the word FREE.
Oddly enough if you go to the ACLU website (the institution that is probably the most hated by conservatives) you will find lots of statements by the liberal, socialist, free-loader, “Progressive,” elements that SUPPORTS individual freedom or liberty for all. They just don't always support the selective parts of freedom that Elvis believes in.
Some people seem to be very selective in how they apply the word FREE.
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tatupu70 said:
then:
Somehow it is alright to paint conservatives all with the same brush. But doing so to democrats is just small mind.
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tatupu70 says
Ever think maybe your two year old is on to something? Nah. Just go back to your koolade.
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AdHominem says
You agree that your critical thinking skills are at the level of a two year old and that's fine with you?
elvis says
Anyone who finished middle school should be able to instantly recognize and dismiss this kind of rhetorical fallacy. Elvis must have skipped that day, and consistently falls for these arguments, especially number 4 (i.e. the evil yet ficticious "lib").
Wikipedia says
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Nomograph, thanks for showing us what I was trying to say to "elvis" in plain English.
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Ever think maybe your two year old is on to something? Nah. Just go back to your koolade.
We were all born highly intuitive. But we unlearned all such abilities and started demanding "scientific" data and statistics.
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I'm mentally challenged says
When the two year old is right and his wacked out liberal daddy is wrong yes. FOR SURE YES.
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Peter P says
Incorrect. We are all born with instinct, not intuition. Instincts are pre-programmed behaviors, such as suckling, withdrawal from heat or pain, and crying to garner attention. Intuition is the ability to make complex decisions in a seemingly unconscious manner. This ability comes only when knowledge and experience have been deeply integrated into one's thought process, and thus the decisions appear effortless.
For example, an experienced engineer may look at a canyon and intuitively know where the best place to build a bridge is. He doesn't necessarily need to sit down and deeply analyze every aspect because he has already done that unconsciously.
A two year old has only instinct, not intuition. A two year old still believes that he is the center of the universe, and is just beginning to understand the existence of others beyond himself. A two year old has not yet learned the concept of right and wrong, and only responds to reward and punishment. Anyone who has ever parented a child will tell you that a two year old child is one of the most selfish entities known to the universe, and he feels victimized by anyone or anything that prevents him from getting what he wants. This is why young children bawl helplessly when an adult takes away a toy, and why we describe such behavior as childish. So in that respect, it's clear to see how folks like AdHominem are very akin to a two year old child in his view of himself, others, and the world around him.
Back to your original statement: in order to defend your point, you are forced to take that stand that “scientific data" are somehow bad (only if it disproves your point of course), and therefore if someone uses "data" to bolster an argument then they are somehow wrong. It this juncture it is probably better to concede the point rather than discredit yourself entirely.
AdHominem says
My observation is that, with people like AdHominem, elvis, and their kind, the anger toward "libs" actually results from their inability to compete successfully for limited resources such as admittance to good schools, high-paying jobs, desirable spouses, etc. For example, consider the blue collar worker who barely finished high school and lives in the Bay Area. He or she may look around at all the successful, highly educated, well-paid, and well-married people, and out of anger and jealousy label them as "liberal elitists" or something similar. AM talk radio tells the disgruntled worker that he can blame his or her inability to succeed on these freedom-hating, America-destroying "libs", and that they are being victimized for their conservative beliefs. How many self-described "Conservatives" on this board waste their time ranting and raving about how "liberals are destroying America" rather that focusing on improving their lives through education, training, and hard work? Answer: pretty much all of them. It's the adult version of throwing a temper tantrum and calling someone a poopyhead.
The absolute last thing that this country needs right now is an AM talk radio ideology that allows people to blame their problems on other people.
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Here's a quote from Tatupu: "painting them all with the same brush is just small minded." And from Nomograph: "people like AdHominem, elvis, AND THEIR KIND..." (painting them all with the same brush).
Conclusion? Nomo, despite his lavish and rich retoric, is just small minded.
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Here's a quote from Tatupu: "painting them all with the same brush is just small minded." And from Nomograph: "people like AdHominem, elvis, AND THEIR KIND..." (painting them all with the same brush).
Conclusion? Nomo, despite his lavish and rich retoric, is just small minded.
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Intuition was born with the soul. Life experiences only made it weaker.
I do not expect someone who worships Scientism to understand.
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Nomograph says
Your observation and 10 cents will buy you a dixie cup full of koolade.
Oh, and I think it is funny that anyone who doesn't drink the koolade is now a poor down trodden blue collar worker with no spouse, or at least an "undesirable" wife or husband (undesirable to you I would assume). That doesn't sound the least bit elitest does it? We probably cling to guns an religion too right? (rather than clinging to obama, socialized medicine and your supply of koolade). Painting with a very broad brush there smart guy. NO GENERALIZATIONS OR PROFILING THERE. Funny how with you and many others here when push comes to shove and your ideas have proven themselves wrong again and again you begin to attack those who disagree with you. I am all you have left, Ad Hominem. And Ad Hominem you can do well. So you have that going for you, which is nice. But just because your head comes to a point, please don't think you are sharp.
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And liberals look up and see all the "rich" people... out of anger and jealously they label them as evil profiteer.
Many of them are just full of themselves. They believe blue-collar workers "should get more education" and "work harder," yet they think rich people have "unearned" income.
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The thing is that if you have a well-paid job, you are not making enough money.
Remember, education will only make you a good employee. Success requires out-of-the-box thinking. Fancy boxes do not help much.
What is being well-married? Can you provide "statistics" showing that liberals are less prone to divorces?
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AdHominem says
Nomo has consistently shown himself to have an intellectual Napoleonic complex.
He accuses anyone arguing against the vanilla liberal way of thinking as being some bad conservative stereotype. He truly believes that anyone that doesn't agree with him is a brainwashed AM talk radio junkie. His other go-to criticism is to accuse someone of having a victim mentality, blame this mentality on the "conservative" mindset, all under the guise of trying to give advice.
In the old forum, he used the phrase "AM talk radio" in a full 30% of his posts. He seems like an average to moderately intelligent dude with a good education, trying desperately (and failing) to be seen as a top notch intellectual. I think I just threw up in my mouth.
On the plus side, he is sometimes kinda funny.
Nomo, take this as constructive criticism. Your intellectual arrogance is your heroic flaw.
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CBOEtrader says
Kinda funny? I find myself to be hilarious. My specialty, which CBO is trying to imitate in his post, is talking about someone as if they aren't there. It's just like the way a parent talks to another adult about their child who is standing right there: "Oh, little Johnny is going through a masturbatory phase right now, but we're sure it will pass."
So here we go:
AdHominem, elvis, Honest Abe, and Peter P simply repeat what they hear on AM talk radio. When confronted with this fact, their only recourse is to another AM talk radio staple, which is to accuse everyone of "hating America" and "destroying freedom." This is primarily borne from intellectual frustration and an inability to understand the actual issues at hand.
This is when CBO trader steps in. He sees himself as a defender of the weak-minded, and attempts to beat back the perceived intellectual bully. Unfortunately, he is saddled with the same faulted ideological mindset as those he tries to defend, and in the end he becomes equally frustrated as his charges.
All kidding aside, the absolute last thing that this country needs right now is an AM talk radio ideology that allows people to blame their problems on other people.
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Honest Abe says
pontiscjohn says
That's interesting . . . "Honest Abe" posts under multiple screen names, presumably so he can give his own posts a hand job. Perhaps "Honest Abe" is not as honest as he would have you believe, which is typical of the AM talk radio crowd :)
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This is primarily borne from intellectual frustration and an inability to understand the actual issues at hand.
Intellectual frustration, a form of conscious Incompetence, beats intellectual masturbation, the lethal combination of unconscious incompetence and SMUG.
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Nomograph says
Who then is to blame for our problems. NOMO? health care? War? national debt. No one to blame huh? It is our damn fault I guess. I spent everybodys money, drove up prices of health care to the breaking point and started the war on terror. WHoops! My bad.
By the way, the last time I listened to AM radio was 1997.
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Nomograph says
Thanks doc have you got a pill for that or do you just recommend the koolade?Nomograph says
Thanks CBO for defending the "weak minded."
Nomo you have a rapist wit.
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Since my response to Nomo is in "moderation" why don't we conduct a quick poll of the accused, shall we?
AdHominem, elvis, Honest Abe, and Peter P...please openly and honestly admit to the forum how often you listen to AM talk radio. While we're at it, please also admit how often you watch (and agree with) fox news.
AdHominem says
Ok. What about the rest of you?
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Nomograph says
blockquote>
“AdHominem, elvis, Honest Abe, and Peter P simply repeat what they hear on AM talk radio. “
I personally don’t see it, but I have never listened to AM radio…except for the time I was on a road trip and needed to catch the Dallas Stars win the Stanley Cup. It would probably be more accurate to accuse them of getting their info from youtube conspiracy videos, but that is besides the point. It seems to me that you are pulling out your liberal version of the “AM talk radio staple” by accusing others of being AM talk radio junkies rather than defend the actions of the democrats.
“When confronted with this fact, their only recourse is to another AM talk radio staple, which is to accuse everyone of “hating America” and “destroying freedom.” “
You are doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING when you accuse someone of being an “AM talk radio junkie” for being an advocate of free market capitalism.
“This is when CBO trader steps in. He sees himself as a defender of the weak-minded, and attempts to beat back the perceived intellectual bully.”
I am a partner in a trading company, and thus have worked with a lot of quants, techies, and traders. All three groups are generally quite intelligent. I have noticed that MANY intelligent people have a chronic problem of not knowing what they don’t know. It’s what I call negative IQ. This problem is inescapable in the business world. Mostly this problem plagues individuals that base their identity on their intelligence (most “nerds“, and quasi-intellectuals are great examples). Someone that is good at financial engineering might falsely assume that he is an expert at economics, for instance. Like I said, this seems to be your heroic flaw.
I find your “AM talk radio” criticism of others to be unwarranted, while at the same time horribly hypocritical in that you are showing THE EXACT SAME TENDENCIES THAT YOU CRITICIZE. From a person that is obviously educated, frankly, I expect better. That is why I call you out. If I thought you were an OTS style jerk/idiot I would say nothing.
In the end, this thought process is downright dangerous. If the "conservatives" (whatever that means) had the political self-awareness allowing them to see through the "free-market" lies of reagan and all the other neocons, the republicans would never have been able to rape and pillage for 25 years. This time around, the democratic supporters are the enablers of the raping and pillaging. Take note that the vast majority of conservatives, DO NOT SUPPORT THE REPUBLICANS outright, but instead call themselves independants. However the vast majority of "liberals" still have faith in the democratic party. And therein lies my issue. THE DEMOCRATS ARE JUST AS HORRIBLE AS THE REPUBLICANS. The only difference is that they are early in their power cycle and thus, the "liberals" of america still blindly support them. I truly hope it doesn't take 30 years of theft and lies for the liberals to come to their senses.
“Unfortunately, he is saddled with the same faulted ideological mindset as those he tries to defend, and in the end he becomes equally frustrated as his charges.”
Which ideology do you speak of exactly?…and when have I ever expressed frustration in this forum? To be clear: I am most closely aligned with the libertarians. I feel that both Republicans and Democrats are horrible for our country--and besides a few social issues are basically identical. I find it absurd for a democratic supporter to accuse the republicans of using misinformation, of being corporate puppets, or of being self interested A-holes, as the democrats ARE ALL OF THESE THINGS. I find it equally absurd that the republican supporters accuse the democrats of being fiscally irresponsible (particularly in regards to health care when the republitards passed a multi trillion dollar free-drugs-for-the-elderly bill, for the sole purpose of buying senior citizens’ votes in FL), or of lacking family values when they get off on bombing brown people the world over.
Furthermore, the libertarian/Austrian economists, using Mises’ business cycle theory, are THE ONLY group to accurately predict this economic mess. How exactly is my mindset “faulted”?
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CBOEtrader says
My posts, while sarcastic, are in jest. In my last post, I was mocking myself. Everything following "so here we go:" was to make fun of myself and the rhetorical style I described in the preceding paragraph.
My sense of humor is not appreciated by everyone. I apologize to anyone who I offended.
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**CBOEtrader bows and walks away...**
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AdHominem, elvis, Honest Abe, and Peter P…please openly and honestly admit to the forum how often you listen to AM talk radio. While we’re at it, please also admit how often you watch (and agree with) fox news.
I listen to AM 740, which is mostly traffic and news. I occasionally listen to Rush on Internet Radio mostly for entertainment. My TV is only hooked up to DVD and Netflix streaming. I do not watch broadcast or cable TV.
Rush is amazing because he was able to afford a Gulfstream G550 by talking on the radio. That is an example of what America can provide.
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Someone said that the only difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is the mascot.
However, the Republicans did not choose an Ass. ;-)