Patrick.net

Why do you hate the gov?

By kentm   Follow   Sat, 30 Jan 2010, 1:19am   16,639 views   502 comments
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Those of you who do.

I don't understand this.

Please post a quick note, whatever you care to express. I don't mind if you're sarcastic or derisive, its just that I'd just like to hear some thoughts and this seems like a good place to ask, people on this list are articulate and seem to have a lot of personal experience.

I actually kind of don't expect much of a response, its a touchy subject to come right out and ask about, but I hope so.

Its healthy to be skeptical and all, but I see so much hate of "gov" here in the US, so much unfocused rage. What exactly is the issue/s?

I appreciate anything anyone cares to offer.

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1. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   463   6:41pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says So do you hate any government that forcibly takes money from you? (all taxes) Are you an anarchist too? That's the thanks I get for clarifying, in simple terms, what Shrek was attempting to point out to you. You really are one daffy duck.

2. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   464   6:49pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says That’s the thanks I get for clarifying, in simple terms, what Shrek was attempting to point out to you. You really are one daffy duck. Is that a "Yes I agree with Shrek that all taxes are bad and I'm an anarchist since governments don't run for free" or...... "No of course we need government and Shrek has got a screw loose" So which one is it?

3. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   465   7:01pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Well Duck, it's like this, not all taxes are bad. But, when the government grows like really, really big and spends like billions and billions that turn into trillions on worthless endeavors, it might be time for the government's citizens to do their duty and question their government, or worse, hold them accountable for what they are doing with the PEOPLE'S MONEY. In your little, trusting, obedient world, that may not be a good thing to question your government. But in my world, I somehow was led to believe we have a government for the people and made up by the people that is answerable to the people. If you want to define that as "anarchy," be my guest. The problem with people like you is that you actually believe the best government is one that governs most; the antithesis of what Jefferson declared. I guess that makes Jefferson an anarchist too. LOL

4. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   466   7:05pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says Well Duck, it’s like this, not all taxes are bad. If you disagree with Shrek, why not say so? I always question my government. My government has been drinking Reagan Kool aid for over 30 years now and has almost destroyed the country.

5. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   467   7:15pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says My government has been drinking Reagan Kool aid for over 30 years now and has almost destroyed the country. Are you saying Obama is drinking Reagan flavored Kool-Aid? Please don't tell me Dear Leader has fallen under the influence of the devious Kool-Aid too? I don't know how much more of this I can take.

6. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   468   7:18pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says Are you saying Obama is drinking Reagan flavored Kool-Aid? Of course he is. He had a chance to pay hardball and return taxes to 1993. He actually signed a tax cut for estate taxes. He hasn't introduced any tariffs or quotas to speak of. He's very much drinking the Reagan Kool Aid.

7. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   469   7:23pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I'm shocked beyond all description. Here all along I thought Obama was a radical lefty and now you're telling me he's actually Ronald Reagan in sheep's clothing. I did read somewhere Obama was reading up on Reagan ... this plot is beginning to thicken. And you know something else? Nancy Reagan was telling the dope heads to "just say no" and Michelle Obama is telling the fatsos to "just say no" and the more you think about it, the Obamas are acting like the Reagans, etc. Thanks for pointing all this out Ducky.

8. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,763 comments

   470   7:38pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Patrick says I just can’t believe anyone really pays 45% in the USA. I don’t see how it’s possible, even in California. I'm in that very annoying spot where I paid out 42% last year in taxes. I guess it's a cost of doing business, in CA there is an added tax for certain corp entities.

9. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   471   7:39pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says Here all along I thought Obama was a radical lefty Obviously you thought he was a radical lefty because truth has no meaning to you. Newscorp has you so brainwashed you don't even know what socialism is.

10. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,763 comments

    472   7:42pm Thu 28 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Because our "representative" government is very corrupt and one sided. They skim money off the taxpayers and only represent those closest colleagues who provide them large donations. CA union thugs are the most disgusting political bribery ever. All while under pretense of helping the poor. Every time in CA there is a talk about cutting some union benefits, unions spend millions of our tax dollars on attack ads defeating the measure. It's really disgusting. Lately government went out all socialism for the hedge funds managers and financial tycoons, started picking winners and losers. BofA and GS - too big to fail. WAMU and Lehman - not in that club.

11. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    473   11:13am Fri 29 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   shrekgrinch says Yet, when you are called on the carpet to give away your rental properties to your tenants in order to help with the ‘concentration of wealth problem’ I thought I was the only one that noticed that. Iwoggy loves redistribution of wealth, as long as it doesn't affect him and his rental properties.

12. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    474   11:28am Fri 29 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   shrekgrinch says No, because you just proved my point. You ARROGANTLY believe you know better how my money should be allocated than I do, so you have no problem using the power of government to use force to take that money from me. Absolutely correct. I have NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER paying taxes. I think it's a requirement in a civilized society while the alternative is anarchy. shrekgrinch says Yet, when you are called on the carpet to give away your rental properties to your tenants in order to help with the ‘concentration of wealth problem’ that you constantly bitch about as good enough reasons to tax ME I'll pay the same taxes everyone else does. Other than that, you're totally confused. Overpaying my personal taxes doesn't solve anything.

13. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,763 comments

    475   11:33am Fri 29 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RayAmerica says I thought I was the only one that noticed that. Iwoggy loves redistribution of wealth, as long as it doesn’t affect him and his rental properties. I kind of noticed that too. A lot of folks have an attitude that wealth of others should be redistributed, but not theirs.

14. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    476   11:46am Fri 29 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   ChrisLA says I kind of noticed that too. A lot of folks have an attitude that wealth of others should be redistributed, but not theirs. Right. I've argued endlessly that I should be exempted from paying the same taxes I would levy on everyone else. Do you people hold a meeting to decide what level of absurdity you'll support next?

15. Bitcoins arent the future? Follow Befriend (1) 20 threads 174 comments Beverly Hills, CA

    477   3:15pm Fri 29 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   well, i hadn't read this before and 99% of it is a waste of time. To save you the time, here are the highlights errc says I hate the government because of marijuana prohibition. iwog says It’s the result of a 30 year propaganda campaign by the right to convince working people that a new entrenched aristocracy is better than our representative government. ErikK says America was born because the colonists got pissed off with an uncaring, distant government. Figuratively I believe the majority of Americans today believe our current government is the same. iwog says when taxes are cut, they are primarily for the rich. theoakman says All these problems could be solved with a government that is 1/20th the size tatupu70 says we spend 50% of our budget on the military freebrd1961 says 85%OF US HAVE NO PENSIONS WE GET A PALTRY SOC.SEC CHECK AT 68-70 YEARS Tenouncetrout says “Seriously the message gets lost in the flowery crap and personal attacks.” tatupu70 says it was caused by poor oversight and regulation Honest Abe says The government and the FED are causing social instability by practicing unwise monetary policy…ie: creating money to spend (inflation)… allowing them to spend beyond their budget. A government which steals from its citizens is a government fully engaged in tyranny. Vaticanus says war and poverty seems to be our main export Vaticanus says Where are the cries for regulation? Vaticanus says all of us contribute too much of our labor to a growing Federal bureaucracy that is trashing freedom in favor of government control and corporate interests. twelc says Liberty must be preserved in times of crisis and the rights of the individual should not be subverted by the will of the masses. 4X says I dont hate the government, I am dissappointed

16. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    478   3:45pm Fri 29 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   shrekgrinch says You don’t get that when folks like you arrogantly decide it is best to take the wealth of others against their will We call this a tax. shrekgrinch says then other people will get it in their heads to take yours against your will That's also called a tax. shrekgrinch says they won’t give a damn about whether you think it is ‘fair’ or not, either…just like you don’t give a damn about them. You mean I won't agree 100% on how the representative government spends my money? Really??????? How come you go to great lengths just to pompously declare what most people learn in grade school about how government works? You think using using extremist rhetoric is going to create some kind of point out of thin air? That a system that functioned IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY 200 years ago is now corrupt and worthy of your anarchist revolution??? Really pathetic Shrek. If you don't like people taking money against your will, you're in the wrong country. Somalia or Haiti would be much more suitable.

17. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    479   8:27am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Iwog .... please have the decency to confess here and now that you favor the redistribution of wealth, as long as it does not affect you. You have repeatedly stated on this site that you own over "$1 Million in rental properties," and, aghast, you continue to look to expand your real estate empire. I find this shocking, sir. Don't you think you should redistribute the properties you own to the homeless, the poor and unfortunate of society (both Democrats & Republicans) that are in need of a nice place to call home? I heard a saying once and I think it applies to you: "Your actions speak so loudly I can't hear what you are saying."

18. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,763 comments

    480   8:44am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says We call this a tax no, that would be called expropriation. they practiced it in the soviet union under a slogan of "From each according to his ability to each according to his need." This version of liberalism is a religion with government being god. And as you know, it ends up where soviets ended, total collapse and poverty. Those people out there are living in regret for not jumping onto the capitalism train sooner, yet some here for some reason want to go and repeat their mistakes.

19. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    481   8:56am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   ChrisLA says no, that would be called expropriation. they practiced it in the soviet union under a slogan of “From each according to his ability to each according to his need.” This version of liberalism is a religion with government being god. And as you know, it ends up where soviets ended, total collapse and poverty. Those people out there are living in regret for not jumping onto the capitalism train sooner, yet some here for some reason want to go and repeat their mistakes. Because taxes and communism are exactly the same right? I don't know what to say other than you should move to Somalia or Haiti where there are no taxes and pure capitalism is the rule.

20. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    482   8:58am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says Iwog …. please have the decency to confess here and now that you favor the redistribution of wealth, as long as it does not affect you. Why should I confess something that isn't true? I favor the redistribution of wealth and I favor my own economic participation. What I do not favor is throwing myself under the bus when it would accomplish nothing.

21. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,763 comments

    483   8:58am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Because taxes and communism are exactly the same right? Another strawman fallacy. iwog says I don’t know what to say other than you should move to Somalia or Haiti where there are no taxes and pure capitalism is the rule. Another exaggeration fallacy.

22. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    484   9:08am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   ChrisLA says Another strawman fallacy. Really? Shrek: "You don’t get that when folks like you arrogantly decide it is best to take the wealth of others against their will" (he just defined taxes) Iwog: "We call that a tax" Chris: No that's communism ("no, that would be called expropriation. they practiced it in the soviet union under a slogan of “From each according to his ability to each according to his need.") Iwog: So taxes and communism are exactly the same? Chris: That's a strawman!!! Nice try Chris, but it's not a strawman. It's simply a clarification of what you already stated. Would you like to argue the point with yourself now? ChrisLA says iwog says I don’t know what to say other than you should move to Somalia or Haiti where there are no taxes and pure capitalism is the rule. Another exaggeration fallacy. Well you've already established that you think taxes are communism, so you really don't have any other choice. What other nations do you know of that don't levy taxes? Teach me.

23. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    485   9:45am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says I favor the redistribution of wealth and I favor my own economic participation. Thank you for being so honest. So how exactly are you planning on redistributing your rental properties?

24. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    486   9:54am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says Thank you for being so honest. So how exactly are you planning on redistributing your rental properties? Funny how you zealots are all the same. Taxes = complete forfeiture of all assets right? Redistribution of wealth MUST mean communism or it means nothing right? If that's not right, why are you being so disingenuous and suggesting something so stupid?

25. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    487   10:29am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Iwog ... you're sending out confusing signals; first you say you "favor redistribution" and your own "economic participation," then you call the idea "stupid." Which is it? Are you going to give away your excessively capitalistic rental properties or not?

26. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,497 comments

    488   10:54am Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RayAmerica says Iwog … you’re sending out confusing signals; first you say you “favor redistribution” and your own “economic participation,” then you call the idea “stupid.” Which is it? Are you going to give away your excessively capitalistic rental properties or not? You really don't grasp the concept of middle ground do you. IWOG supports redistribution of wealth through higher and more progressive taxes. That really isn't hard to understand. I'm assuming he would gladly pay the higher taxes or else he is just a hypocrite. Why do you insist that giving away his business is the only way wealth could be redistributed. Typical right wingnut tactics. Do you have any actual idea's to contribute?

27. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

    489   3:05pm Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says Why do you insist that giving away his business is the only way wealth could be redistributed. Typical right wingnut tactics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma fallacy.

28. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    490   4:00pm Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says I favor the redistribution of wealth and I favor my own economic participation. What I do not favor is throwing myself under the bus when it would accomplish nothing. Why would you think providing free housing (from your rental properties) would be accomplishing "nothing?" Just imagine how thrilled the homeless will be living in your "redistribute the wealth" properties? Afterall, the question begs to be asked; why should Iwog have multiple properties (excessive capitalist wealth) when so many have so little?

29. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,497 comments

    491   4:09pm Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Troy says bob2356 says Why do you insist that giving away his business is the only way wealth could be redistributed. Typical right wingnut tactics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma fallacy. “Nessuna soluzione . . . nessun problema!„ So what's the fallacy? That there is more than one way to redistribute wealth (ie higher taxes vs confiscation vs philanthropy) or that the right wingnuts usually insist on phrasing everything in ridiculous terms without ever providing any type of response to direct questions.

30. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,534 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    492   5:13pm Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says Why would you think providing free housing (from your rental properties) would be accomplishing “nothing?” Just imagine how thrilled the homeless will be living in your “redistribute the wealth” properties? Afterall, the question begs to be asked; why should Iwog have multiple properties (excessive capitalist wealth) when so many have so little? My goal is not thrilling the homeless. I am not a communist. I do not subscribe to Marx. I'm in favor of a class society where some people have more than others. I'm pro-capitalism. Your absolute failure, and this has been pointed out to you numerous times, is that you are totally incapable of comprehending or even discussing shades of gray. It's the same thing that makes you an irrational extremist.

31. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

    493   10:27pm Sat 30 Apr 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   bob2356 says So what’s the fallacy? I wanted to quote "fallacy of the excluded middle" but wikipedia didn't have it. This nation needs mild redistribution to keep capital from collecting into fewer and fewer hands -- that's the excluded middle between iwog volunteering to pay and nationalizing his assets) (and it needs to tax the shit out of rent-seekers like iwog, but that's a somewhat separate issue) (though I'd like to think the more people like iwog are "incentivized" to put their capital in actual productive enterprise and not just the vampiric rent-seeking of real estate empires, the less actual redistribution we'd need, since this alternative would result in more jobs and lower housing costs)

32. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    494   9:39am Sun 1 May 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says I’m in favor of a class society where some people have more than others. I’m pro-capitalism. I get it now. Thanks for clarifying your position. You favor "redistribution of wealth" for people other than you, and as long as you personally are numbered in the class "where some people have more than others" everything is fine. Thank you. You've made your point very, very clear. No "redistribution of wealth" for Iwog ... only for everyone else (like people that have real money, I guess).

33. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,628 comments

    495   11:23am Sun 1 May 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RayAmerica says iwog says I’m in favor of a class society where some people have more than others. I’m pro-capitalism. I get it now. Thanks for clarifying your position. You favor “redistribution of wealth” for people other than you, and as long as you personally are numbered in the class “where some people have more than others” everything is fine. Thank you. You’ve made your point very, very clear. No “redistribution of wealth” for Iwog … only for everyone else (like people that have real money, I guess). You can't be this stupid. Iwog's point is crystal clear. He plays by whatever rules are in place at the time. He'd like the rules changed though. If and when they are, he will play by the new rules.

34. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,074 comments

    496   12:03pm Sun 1 May 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   RayAmerica is actually a left wing extremist, planted on this forum to make the right wing (extremities) look even more stupid than they are. This is no small task, and we should all be grateful.

35. bob2356 Follow Befriend 2 threads 2,497 comments

    497   12:21pm Sun 1 May 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   tatupu70 says You can’t be this stupid. Why can't he be?

36. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,763 comments

    498   4:45pm Sun 1 May 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Funny how you zealots are all the same. Taxes = complete forfeiture of all assets right? Redistribution of wealth MUST mean communism or it means nothing right? your version of taxation involves taking from those who make more than you and distributing it. it's easy to be for taking other peoples money when you are not affected by it. It's an equivalent to Nike supporting stricter emission controls in US because their factories are in China, it was the same concept.

37. FortWayne Follow Befriend (13) 102 threads 3,763 comments

    499   4:56pm Sun 1 May 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   marcus says RayAmerica is actually a left wing extremist, planted on this forum to make the right wing (extremities) look even more stupid than they are. This is no small task, and we should all be grateful. Marcus as a taxpayers employee (since I pay your salary through taxes) you should be a bit more grateful to those who work hard so that you can have a job with a salary. If people like Ray move to another state and stop paying taxes here, you'll be begging for hand outs again. When money dries up, its you on the chopping block not your glorious union leadership sitting cozily on top.

38. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,628 comments

    500   5:18pm Sun 1 May 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   ChrisLA says iwog says Funny how you zealots are all the same. Taxes = complete forfeiture of all assets right? Redistribution of wealth MUST mean communism or it means nothing right? your version of taxation involves taking from those who make more than you and distributing it. it’s easy to be for taking other peoples money when you are not affected by it. It’s an equivalent to Nike supporting stricter emission controls in US because their factories are in China, it was the same concept. It is actually nothing like that. It is someone who understands that the economy grinds to a halt when wealth distribution gets too extreme and is willing to pay his fair share. fyi--Warren Buffet agrees that US tax code needs to get much more progressive too. Is he just trying to shirk his responsibility? Progressive taxes have nothing to do with wealth distribution. Taxes fund the government. How the government spends that money is an entirely different subject.

39. Patrick Follow Befriend (54) 5,188 threads 6,157 comments 46 male Menlo Park, CA

    501   6:25pm Sat 3 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Hey, I must say it is way the heck faster to load only the 40 latest comments than to load 517 comments. I'm thinking that my new comment pagination scheme is definitely worth the Sunday I spend on it.

40. TMAC54 Follow Befriend (9) 70 threads 930 comments San Leandro, CA

    502   8:18am Sun 4 Mar 2012   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   kentm says Why do you hate the gov? GUBMINT did not ASK for the money to stop declining home prices. (as if they could set home prices) They stole it, Wagged the Dog, smiled confidently, and said, " RE-ELECT ME " . I have worked at Auto Repair Shops that take advantage of customers ignorance. I Spoke to an Engineer working on "Devil's Slide" last week.. I quote, "Talk about ripping off the taxpayer" ! Gubmint waste is beyond comprehension.

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