Conservatives vs. Liberals


By Jeremy   Follow   Sat, 30 Jan 2010, 6:26pm   1,963 views   37 comments
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  1. ¥


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    1   7:49pm Sat 30 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Liberals believe guns are tools not toys and the public interest is served in controlling access and requiring education and other regulations of their ownership and use, depending on the locality.

    Liberals respect the right of free speech more than conservatives. Conservatives want to limit the free speech of doctors to inform their pregnant patients about legal abortions, establish "first amendment zones" to put public protest out of the way, and of course want to ban flag burning and god knows what other forms of demonstration that hurt their tender feelings.

    >If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned.

    wut?

    Conservatives want to ban all consensual sex acts that they do not engage in and/or feel harms the public morals, like sex toys in Texas, and of course want to prevent homosexual partnerships from having the same blessing of the state, since they idiotically believe their imaginary sky god will remove his protection from us if we follow in the pattern of unknown middle eastern states as recorded in the prehistorical myths of the Jewish Five Books of Moses.

    Conservatives wish to deny, dispute, and ignore the historical and generational effects of rampant racism of living memory.

    Conservatives believe in welfare for themselves but not for people who don't look or act like them.

    Conservatives want to inject their religion in every public space, from baseball games to the United States Airforce Academy, under the mistaken but widespread belief that this nation was, is and should be a Protestant Christian nation intolerant of other beliefs.

    Conservatives fail to understand that their is no rational free market in health care given adverse selection, inelastic demand, asymmetric information, and the guildlike limitations healthcare providers have erected to limit competition, not to mention the generous 18+ years of patent protection the USPTO hands out to pharmaceutical "inventions" or minor additions thereto. They further fail to learn from other, more successful State interventions to fix the market failures inherent in any system with such significant faults.

    >If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, screams in pain, then sues.

    wut?

    Nice troll, btw.

  2. iwog


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    2   7:59pm Sat 30 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    What a complete load of crap. There are liberals who have no interest in making guns illegal and there are conservatives who would KILL every doctor in America who ever performed an abortion.

    Many things on this list are outright lies. There are no liberals in America who want the mention of god to be illegal.

    This is exactly the same scapegoat-seeking propaganda that Hitler used so effectively against the Jews. It's part of the fascist movement and anyone using this list is a member.

  3. elliemae


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    3   9:14pm Sat 30 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    The OP says: "In my opinion..." yet he spouts something he found on the interweb - and been posted on patnet over & over. If you were saying something original, it would be your opinion. It seems that you don't have any of your own opinions, only a hatred for people who think on their own and hold a different value system.

    Anyone can copy & paste, from such sites as:
    http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-139404.html

    This isn't a forum of thought provoking opinions - it has become a forum for people to regurgitate propaganda they read and have heard on am radio. If they're nasty enough, they think this endears them to others - but it only endears them to others who are angry & bitter like themselves. It really would be nice for a change if ya'll could present your point of view in your own words. That's not likely to happen, because you don't appear to have your own thought processes.

  4. Jeremy


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    4   9:39pm Sat 30 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Of course the initial post is found all over the internet. However, everything after the words 'In my opinion' are my opinion, written on the fly, with thoughts that are my own. I think hatred is a very strong word, but I do believe that both of the primary political parties in our country are lost, and unsure of what they are actually fighting for. I was just trying to start a discussion. As for me - I want freedom, I want liberty, and I want the government out of my business. It's that simple.
    elliemae says

    The OP says: “In my opinion…” yet he spouts something he found on the interweb -

  5. elliemae


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    5   9:57pm Sat 30 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Jeremy says

    I was just trying to start a discussion.

    No, you weren't. This "discussion" has been had, over & over & over & over. A discussion is an exchange of thoughts & ideas. Not the spouting of the same old shit, over & over, by people who get these ideas from others. You lose your message, if you actually have one, when you do this.

    This forum used to be fun. Not any more.

  6. Vaticanus


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    6   10:13pm Sat 30 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    This forum used to be fun. Not any more.

    Another victim of the free market. We need gubmint regulation making this a more fun place for ellie.

    As for me, I find it mildly entertaining that Ellie is so upset over nothing.

  7. elliemae


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    7   11:23pm Sat 30 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   Protected  

    AdHominem says

    As for me, I find it mildly entertaining that Ellie is so upset over nothing.

    And yet, I don't find you entertaining at all. Most of the originals are gone... I wouldn't call it free market as much as people with lives who don't blame the government for everything that's wrong in their lives. It must be difficult, thinking that you speak for all the other victims too.

  8. Vaticanus


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    8   1:53am Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    elliemae says

    And yet, I don’t find you entertaining at all.

    And yet you find the time to waste on me. Funny how that works.

    Guess I'm not the victim after all.

  9. iwog


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    9   10:29am Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (3)   Protected  

    AdHominem says

    elliemae says


    And yet, I don’t find you entertaining at all.

    And yet you find the time to waste on me. Funny how that works.
    Guess I’m not the victim after all.

    Almost everything you post includes a scapegoat. For someone claiming he's not the victim, you certainly do claim to be the victim a lot.

  10. Vaticanus


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    10   11:11am Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    iwog (I WORSHIP OMNIPOTENT GOVERNMENT) says

    Almost everything you post

    Really, so what am I claiming to be a victim of today? I can't keep track of what you are accusing me of.

    iwog says

    For someone claiming he’s not the victim

    And there you have it. Lest you forget, I am "claiming" you and everyone else who doesn't realize that you are being controlled, bought and paid for by sophisticated propaganda (orwellian style) are the real victims. It is sad that you don't know who the real enemy is. That is why you are a victim. If you ever wake up, you can cease to be a victim and begin to reclaim what is rightfully yours, starting with your own mind.

    Until then enjoy the koolade.

  11. tatupu70


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    11   11:45am Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    AdHominem says

    It is sad that you don’t know who the real enemy is

    So who is the real enemy then?

  12. Vaticanus


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    12   3:55pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    tatupu70 says

    So who is the real enemy then?

    Anyone who uses force to deprive another man of his life, liberty and property.

    For example US legal tender laws combined with FED's inflationary monetary policy. It is robbery plain and simple. In this case the congress and federal reserve system are the culprit (or enemy if you wish to be more dramatic). They have legalized theft for their own personal gain. But make no mistake it was the large banking institutions who lobbied to get a central bank so that they can use it as a lender of last resort and so that they can privatize gains while socializing risk. Congress goes along too because using FIAT money allows them to spend more than they have and send more money back home to constituents who eat it up not knowing the true cost. So we see large banks, using government to fleece the sheeple. This is how it will always be unless the sheeple become people who are smart enough to limit government power so that it not used against them.

    The Declaration of Independence illustrated this as eloquently as anything else I have ever heard.

    But I say this not for your benefit tatu, for I fear all you want to do is have some fun in a pointless argument that strokes your own ego. If you cannot or will not see when your government is enabling the enemy.... I wish you all the best. Enjoy the ride.

  13. tatupu70


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    13   4:04pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    AdHominem says

    Enjoy the ride

    Thank you. I most cetainly will

    PS--I think there is a sale on tinfoil at Walmart

  14. iwog


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    14   7:07pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    AdHominem says

    tatupu70 says


    So who is the real enemy then?

    Anyone who uses force to deprive another man of his life, liberty and property.
    For example US legal tender laws combined with FED’s inflationary monetary policy. It is robbery plain and simple. In this case the congress and federal reserve system are the culprit (or enemy if you wish to be more dramatic). They have legalized theft for their own personal gain. But make no mistake it was the large banking institutions who lobbied to get a central bank so that they can use it as a lender of last resort and so that they can privatize gains while socializing risk. Congress goes along too because using FIAT money allows them to spend more than they have and send more money back home to constituents who eat it up not knowing the true cost. So we see large banks, using government to fleece the sheeple. This is how it will always be unless the sheeple become people who are smart enough to limit government power so that it not used against them.
    The Declaration of Independence illustrated this as eloquently as anything else I have ever heard.
    But I say this not for your benefit tatu, for I fear all you want to do is have some fun in a pointless argument that strokes your own ego. If you cannot or will not see when your government is enabling the enemy…. I wish you all the best. Enjoy the ride.

    This person has an absurd definition of "another man's property".

    You see folks to a rabbid free-market zealot, a CEO stealing a $100 million from a corporation (because all his golf buddies are on the board of directors) is EARNING his property. Therefore once he's banked his $100 million, then any attempt by the U.S. government to take it away is a violation of the constution. According to Ad and Ray, stealing money from our little CEO is "fleecing the sheeple".

    It's all a pack of lies and misdirection. Corporations steal money from the consumer classes, not the government. Inflation steals money from billionaires and foreign nationals, not WalMart employees and fast food workers. Unfortunately inflation also steals money from retired folk, and that's a crisis that needs to be dealt with. However when some dolt says "The government is fleecing you" because of deficit spending, what they are really talking about is a weak attempt at enforcing progressive tax policy. An attempt to redistribute wealth back to the people who actually use it instead of those who send it to Dubai.

    Do you know when workers in this country had a high standard of living and could afford a family on one income? When the top tax rate was 90% and corporate power was tightly controlled by the "evil" government. Quite a contrast between then and now.

  15. iwog


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    15   7:11pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    AdHominem says

    Really, so what am I claiming to be a victim of today? I can’t keep track of what you are accusing me of.

    This is a joke right??? In the very next post you whine and cry about the government fleecing you because of deficit spending. Unbelievable. You're the ULTIMATE victim. The government cheats you, liberals cheat you, and terrorists cheat you. It's amazing you can even get up in the morning.

  16. ErikK


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    16   8:29pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I don't think you can find a self-identified "conservative" who believes everything listed in the OP as " If a conservative". I don't think you can find a self-identified "Liberal" who believes everything posted above either.

    Most people I believe are in the middle. It's the electoral 2-party system where ultra right/lefters pick the most polarized candidate in the primary who are causing the symbolic polarization noted in the OP.

    Reform elections to have a ranked-choice voting and we could all turn out once and vote our conscience and get a true representative of the electorate sent to office. Oops, that's not the interest of our established political parties and their lobbyists..., never mind.

  17. Bap33


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    17   8:58pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    that would work ... circ 1950

    now-a-days we have a populous made up of drunks, dopeheads, pornstars, and liars. And they get to match your vote.

    Here is my thoughts on fixing the vote-to-power issue:
    1) Vote on the back of your tax return, not on a special paper on some other day. Vote with the stink of taxes fresh on your mind.
    2) I.Q. test and American History test and a current state of America test (every year) to gain an American Voter License that goes with your yearly tax-voter number (SSN). This helps have a little smarter voter, and less voter cheating.
    3) Drug testing required to gain Voters License

    I dont know, but maybe a better voter will result in a better votee

    Lobbiest suck

  18. Vaticanus


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    18   9:06pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    WINSTON says

    It’s all a pack of lies and misdirection.

    Got that right Winston.

    iwog says

    Corporations steal money from the consumer classes, not the government. Inflation steals money from billionaires and foreign nationals, not WalMart employees and fast food workers.

    This is a joke right??? What part of the ministry of truth do you work for Winston?

    That is why you are the ultimate victim. You've been raped so much you can't even feel it anymore. Hope you enjoy your daily rations.

    They won't need to reprogram you. The propaganda spews out of your mouth better than the elites can write it themselves Winston.

    What Iwog/Winston doesn’t realize is that he is fighting a phantom. He thinks the enemy is brainwashed “right wingers” and the corporations who control them. He doesn’t realize that the same corporations and bankers who fund the “right wing propaganda” also fund the left wing propaganda. The authors of these alternate but complimentary propaganda streams want us to fight amongst ourselves. They want us to believe that the perpetual battle between Republicans and Democrats is like the ultimate battle between good and evil. But in reality, it matters little who wins elections. We steadily march toward a new world order. An order where freedom is sacrificed for “security”. Indeed freedom itself is a foreign and scary idea to people under the influence of this propaganda. If you believe the propaganda freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

    The question is are you afraid of freedom?

  19. Honest Abe


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    19   9:43pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    AdH, Bap, why argue with idiots (Iwog, ellie, Tappupu)? Don't bother trying to educate them. For them "ignorance is bliss". They are freedom haters and feel it is their right to control others. They hate the constitution and everything it represents...though they argue otherwise. They have not yet learned: "A slave who votes for a new master every four years is still a slave".

  20. Bap33


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    20   10:15pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    From a bitter gun toter bible glinger's point of view, I must say:
    I do not feel Iwog or Ellie or Tatuou are idiots.
    Iwog has shown to be really smart about alot of money and market stuff
    Ellie is kind and friendly and seems bright
    Tatupu can defend an idea pretty well
    Doc Nomo .... well, he's just petty ... but not stupid. Doc is smart.

    I do not agree with most liberal/leftist thought, but I also do not allow them to frustrate me to the point you are at HA. Just relax. God has a plan.

  21. Nomograph


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    21   10:16pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Honest Abe says

    They are freedom haters

    What about me? I hate freedom too!

  22. Nomograph


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    22   10:20pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Jeremy says

    If a conservative is homosexual

    I suppose that explains Jeremy's angst.

  23. iwog


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    23   10:30pm Sun 31 Jan 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    Honest Abe says

    AdH, Bap, why argue with idiots (Iwog, ellie, Tappupu)? Don’t bother trying to educate them. For them “ignorance is bliss”. They are freedom haters and feel it is their right to control others. They hate the constitution and everything it represents…though they argue otherwise. They have not yet learned: “A slave who votes for a new master every four years is still a slave”.

    Now we have a legitimate totalitarian warcry!! Ray? Ad? You taking notes?

  24. ErikK


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    24   8:49am Mon 1 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Please learn to spell if you want to be taken seriously by me. I guess I'm too "stoopid" to read past the typos for your intended message.

  25. tatupu70


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    25   12:40pm Mon 1 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    staynumz says

    Yes, you might be.

    Another in the long list of insightful posts from staynumz. Keep up the good work!

  26. Done!


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    26   3:59pm Tue 2 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Conservatives will always wield power over the Democrat and Liberals as they are so easily distracted, and aren't sure which BALL is important.

    The Libs were hard at work shoving a Insurance industry Boone screw job on us, and what did the Conservatives do. Took the Campaign reform ball out of their pocket, and said, "Where's the ball?" "Where's the Ball?" "Who's a good boy...." then threw it, a bevy of Democrats chased it down a rabbit hole and we haven't heard crap about the "Healthcare reform" since.

  27. iwog


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    27   4:22pm Tue 2 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    Tenouncetrout says

    Conservatives will always wield power over the Democrat and Liberals as they are so easily distracted, and aren’t sure which BALL is important.
    The Libs were hard at work shoving a Insurance industry Boone screw job on us, and what did the Conservatives do. Took the Campaign reform ball out of their pocket, and said, “Where’s the ball?” “Where’s the Ball?” “Who’s a good boy….” then threw it, a bevy of Democrats chased it down a rabbit hole and we haven’t heard crap about the “Healthcare reform” since.

    Media propaganda is very dangerous. It will result in dictatorship if something doesn't change.

  28. Done!


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    28   5:32pm Tue 2 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    It did!

  29. Bap33


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    29   7:48pm Tue 2 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    great point TOT

  30. iwog


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    30   9:28pm Tue 2 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    Seriously??? Two of you are going to call 2010 USA a dictatorship?

    How can this be a serious discussion then?

  31. Done!


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    31   6:49am Wed 3 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    "Media propaganda is very dangerous."

    Media propaganda elected President Obama from the very start, if you can't admit that, then How can there be serious discussion?

    With a Democrat Washington he and they Hijacked democracy, and have reneged on all campaign promises, with the propensity of blaming the republicans and called it a stale mate.

  32. Bap33


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    32   7:48am Wed 3 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike  

    all I know is we conservos in central mexifornia passed Prop 187 and libs killed our vote.

    we passed Prop 22 and libs blocked our vote again.

    we passed Prop 8 and libs killed our vote.

    we blocked legal dope and libs skirt our vote.

    we want murderers to be put to a swift death.

    we want babies to be allowed life.

    we want to allow non-felons to carry a loaded weapon on their person at all times in public or private if they wish, libs refuse to follow the constitution on this issue.

    SO, please show me where conservatives have done such things to liberal votes or the liberals bill of rights.

    It is from this view I see liberalism as a cancer to America, and humanity as a whole. It is a type of perversion, that leads to other perversions. Mind, body, soul, family, society, the perverted cancer of liberal thought/action/or deed attacks them all.

  33. CBOEtrader


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    33   8:56am Wed 3 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Bap33 says

    all I know is we conservos in central mexifornia passed Prop 187 and libs killed our vote.
    we passed Prop 22 and libs blocked our vote again.
    we passed Prop 8 and libs killed our vote.
    we blocked legal dope and libs skirt our vote.
    we want murderers to be put to a swift death.
    we want babies to be allowed life.
    we want to allow non-felons to carry a loaded weapon on their person at all times in public or private if they wish, libs refuse to follow the constitution on this issue.
    SO, please show me where conservatives have done such things to liberal votes or the liberals bill of rights.
    It is from this view I see liberalism as a cancer to America, and humanity as a whole. It is a type of perversion, that leads to other perversions. Mind, body, soul, family, society, the perverted cancer of liberal thought/action/or deed attacks them all.

    Bap, I like you. But...

    It might be easier to accept your opinion as worthy of a discussion if you first explained how you define "liberal". As is, liberal and conservative are very vague, almost nonsensical terms. Second, explain WHY you think your definition of liberalism is a "cancer."

    As is, your post comes across as a flame, and will only attract attention as such, rather than anything resembling a discussion.

  34. iwog


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    34   9:08am Wed 3 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    Tenouncetrout says

    “Media propaganda is very dangerous.”
    Media propaganda elected President Obama from the very start, if you can’t admit that, then How can there be serious discussion?
    With a Democrat Washington he and they Hijacked democracy, and have reneged on all campaign promises, with the propensity of blaming the republicans and called it a stale mate.

    Absolutely false. There was no organized and directed media campaign to elect Obama, in fact the capmpaign was DOMINATED by discussions of citizenship, Ayers, Acorn, marxism, Joe the Plumber, and "The Obamas hate white people". How the hell can you dispute this?? Fox set the agenda for the entire election. It He was elected in spite of all this because he was a popular grass roots candidate promoted and funded largely by individual voters.

    Please explain how the Democrats hijacked democracy. (breaking campaign promises and blaming Republicans has nothing to do with it) Your rhetoric is growing increasingly hard to follow.

  35. iwog


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    35   9:12am Wed 3 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    Bap33 says

    all I know is we conservos in central mexifornia passed Prop 187 and libs killed our vote.
    we passed Prop 22 and libs blocked our vote again.
    we passed Prop 8 and libs killed our vote.
    we blocked legal dope and libs skirt our vote.
    we want murderers to be put to a swift death.
    we want babies to be allowed life.
    we want to allow non-felons to carry a loaded weapon on their person at all times in public or private if they wish, libs refuse to follow the constitution on this issue.
    SO, please show me where conservatives have done such things to liberal votes or the liberals bill of rights.
    It is from this view I see liberalism as a cancer to America, and humanity as a whole. It is a type of perversion, that leads to other perversions. Mind, body, soul, family, society, the perverted cancer of liberal thought/action/or deed attacks them all.

    I don't know who you consider "we", but the majority of Californians are pro-choice and favor the legalization of medical marijuana. You might have an argument that the courts are overstepping their mandate, but this works both ways as evidenced by the recent court decision giving corporations constitutional rights and the clearly unconstitutional Bush v. Gore.

  36. ErikK


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    36   9:35am Wed 3 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)  

    Yea, I don't remember hearing "conservatives" screaming about "activist judges" regarding the recent SCUS ruling on corporate campaign finance. LOL. Little hypocritical in my view.

    I think prop 187 ought to be proposed again, or at least parts of it. Might make it this time giving the state's financial situation.

    BTW, you didn't block legal dope. It's blocked at a federal lvl. The state's voters passes a medicinal marijuana law, if you don't like it don't smoke it. It's not that you personally are being forced to smoke it, cigarettes, or drink alcohol. A lot of opposition to "conservative" values is that "conservatives" want to forcible impose their values on other people's lives. How "conservatives" reconcile that attitude with a professed belief in personal values/freedom is what gives others headaches. You want to go to church, thump your bible, and ban alcohol and anything flammable in your home go ahead. Why do you believe you have the right to dictate what other people do in their own homes?

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    37   9:58am Wed 3 Feb 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Baps argument, is why I don't claim any party.
    How can you have a stance on an issue before you even heard the facts?

    The Irony of all of Baps imaginary issues are from the Democrats using the "Where's the Ball? Where's the Ball?" to distract the Right, though the Regan through Clinton and Bush.
    Where we've had a Republican Majority.

    Most of these weren't issues at all, until the Left took them to the head, where the Right galvanized creating this Righteous cause to take on these distracting issues.

    Abortion, if a woman can live with her self, for indiscriminately having an abortion, and the Father(being the baby's daddy) doesn't want any part of it. Then it up to the Woman. That's one instance of the issue. Now if the Father wants the baby, then he and he alone, has the right, to contest the mothers decision, not some Church group. Next issue, rape definitely up to the woman.

    Maria Sherivo or what ever her name was,(the vegetable) If the parents, or any immediate family member, were willing to take care of her, then I don't think anyone else in the family or courts, has the right to court order pulling the plug.

    What gay people do is their own business as well, the problem I have. Is they don't have respect for people with Heterosexual "Lifestyles", which by the very nature, isn't comfortable being privy with too much detail on how the other "Lifestyle" lives or what and how they do it. Gays have plenty of rights, if they would just make a list of what in the Hell it is they actually want or expect. Life for everyone would be a hell of a lot easier.
    They don't want rights, or anything else, they want Daddies blessing for being who they are, and if wont give then they want to display in full regalia to the world who they are, and they demand an audience.

    It's all distraction to detract from what "ALL" parties and politicians are doing, regardless the regurgitated campaign crap spew out to get elected. In the end they are all lying scumbag politicians. Yes and especially the ones from Chicago home of the Original corruption.

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