Private Insurance Companies and the Government


By jvolstad   Follow   Wed, 3 Mar 2010, 11:14am   2,362 views   58 comments
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A number of years ago, I was involved in a very serious car accident. I was hit head on by a drunk driver. I almost died. The drunk walked away with no injuries.

Anyway, my insurance company knew that I was in the military (Army Reserve) and refused to pay under the thought that the VA should take care of me. Millions of dollars later, they are still going the same thing.

I wonder what is going to happen when we have Obama Care?

http://www.jvolstad.com/later.htm

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  1. Paralithodes


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    19   3:56am Sat 6 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    4X, Your "point" is based on a completely false premise.

  2. jvolstad


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    20   10:11am Sat 6 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Paralithodes says

    As an active reservist or gray-area retiree, you wouldn’t normally be qualified for care other than service-related injuries/conditions. Title 10 is pretty clear that it covers you from portal-to-portal on drill weekends and the VA wouldn’t be taking care of you if the service wasn’t responsible for your injury. What law states that your private insurance is primary? How does State Farm have anything to do with this? Are they refusing you coverage under some type of “pre-existing condition” type of thing, or something else? If you need a hip replacement and the VA is not providing, and legal services are telling you they can’t help you, then maybe you should contact your Congressman? Have you checked out Military.com (www.military.com) discussion boards? Maybe there will be some JAGs, Medical Corps (or “Corpse” in Obama-speak), or others who can give you some good input. Good luck! BZ on your recovery and ability to finish up 26 years!

    I am going to look into this some more based on my read of Title 10. I was not familiar with that info but I assume the JAG back at Fort Sam Houston was/is. Thanks for the info.

    I may stop by Moffett Field here in the Bay Area this afternoon on the off chance that the JAG is drilling this weekend.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffett_Federal_Airfield

  3. 4X


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    21   11:24pm Sat 6 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Paralithodes says

    4X, Your “point” is based on a completely false premise.

    Are you saying that arch-conservatives have not been calling Obama a SOCIALIST in attempt to discredit his efforts?

  4. theoakman


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    22   5:57am Sun 7 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    The reason most of the insurance industry is a train wreck is because the government forces people to purchase insurance. They do it for motor vehichles and they force most companies to purchase it for their employees. When the customer doesn't have the option of walking away, where's the incentive to provide a decent service? There is none.

  5. Nomograph


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    23   7:42am Sun 7 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    theoakman says

    When the customer doesn’t have the option of walking away,

    When you say "walking away" from health insurance, what you mean is "becoming a ward of the state". Think for a moment about what happens to sick people with no health insurance. They become wards of the state. Don't you understand this?

  6. elliemae


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    24   8:32am Sun 7 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Nomograph says

    theoakman says


    When the customer doesn’t have the option of walking away,

    When you say “walking away” from health insurance, what you mean is “becoming a ward of the state”. Think for a moment about what happens to sick people with no health insurance. They become wards of the state. Don’t you understand this?

    Actually, the Medicaid system (MediCal in California-speak) is hard to qualify for. If you can't meet the narrow financial qualifying criteria, you don't have payment for services. So you go thru the ER and hope that you'll be admitted with your emergent condition. If you're not determined to be emergent, you'll go home with a prescription for which you'll be unable to pay.

    There are no "wards of the state" any longer. States don't offer healthcare, they offer federal match programs or state-funded programs that help to pay for their healthcare. If they don't qualify (and many don't), their care won't be paid for. The hospital or nursing home is stuck with a non-paying patient.

    There are thousands of elderly in nursing homes across the country who have no money to pay for room & board, don't qualify for Medicaid, and can't be discharged because of anti-dumping laws. Nursing homes have to continue providing service for these patients regardless of their ability to pay. The cost of their care is absorbed by the nursing home, which translates into higher costs for all. There have been cases of patients remaining in the hospital for over a year because they had nowhere to go, yet didn't qualify for Medicaid or any other financial programs.

    Qualifying for Medicaid isn't easy, especially in this recession. For instance, if mom 2nd mortgaged her home for $100k to help her kids with a down payment in 2007, she won't qualify for Medicaid now for about 2 years from the date she applies. And if the kids try to pay it back, they're probably upside down in their house and can't afford to do so.

    It didn't use to be this way, but unfortunately that's the way it is now. And it's just getting worse.

  7. ¥


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    25   11:50pm Sun 7 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nomograph says

    They become wards of the state. Don’t you understand this?

    No, they're FREE MEN. With a 50% of going BK when the next medical crisis hits.

    Just saw this on the web tonight:

    "Anthem Blue Cross's parent company, Wellpoint Inc., earned a record $2.7 billion in profits for the last quarter of 2009. Its quarterly sales grew to $19 billion, up 26 percent from $15.1 billion in the comparable 2008 period, Sebelius pointed out."

    14% pure profit. Plus jacking up the cost of billing 30% or more, AND all the make-work jobs, ~50,000 in WellPoint. WLP takes in $60B in premiums and spends $45B on care, a 25% skim. All hail the efficiency of the private sector.

  8. jvolstad


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    26   9:59am Mon 8 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Troy says

    Nomograph says

    They become wards of the state. Don’t you understand this?

    No, they’re FREE MEN. With a 50% of going BK when the next medical crisis hits.
    Just saw this on the web tonight:
    “Anthem Blue Cross’s parent company, Wellpoint Inc., earned a record $2.7 billion in profits for the last quarter of 2009. Its quarterly sales grew to $19 billion, up 26 percent from $15.1 billion in the comparable 2008 period, Sebelius pointed out.”
    14% pure profit. Plus jacking up the cost of billing 30% or more, AND all the make-work jobs, ~50,000 in WellPoint. WLP takes in $60B in premiums and spends $45B on care, a 25% skim. All hail the efficiency of the private sector.

    I work in Healthcare IT. One of the reasons that healthcare is so expensive is that the hospitals typically only get half or so of what they bill the insurance companies for. If a patient pays cash however, they will give you at least a 20% discount. You have to pay in full when you are discharged.

  9. Paralithodes


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    27   5:13pm Tue 9 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    4X says

    Paralithodes says


    4X, Your “point” is based on a completely false premise.

    Are you saying that arch-conservatives have not been calling Obama a SOCIALIST in attempt to discredit his efforts?

    No, I'm saying that your "point," for which what you write above has nothing to do with, is based on a false premise. Get it together, son.

  10. Paralithodes


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    28   5:17pm Tue 9 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    jvolstad says

    Paralithodes says


    As an active reservist or gray-area retiree, you wouldn’t normally be qualified for care other than service-related injuries/conditions. Title 10 is pretty clear that it covers you from portal-to-portal on drill weekends and the VA wouldn’t be taking care of you if the service wasn’t responsible for your injury. What law states that your private insurance is primary? How does State Farm have anything to do with this? Are they refusing you coverage under some type of “pre-existing condition” type of thing, or something else? If you need a hip replacement and the VA is not providing, and legal services are telling you they can’t help you, then maybe you should contact your Congressman? Have you checked out Military.com (www.military.com) discussion boards? Maybe there will be some JAGs, Medical Corps (or “Corpse” in Obama-speak), or others who can give you some good input. Good luck! BZ on your recovery and ability to finish up 26 years!

    I am going to look into this some more based on my read of Title 10. I was not familiar with that info but I assume the JAG back at Fort Sam Houston was/is. Thanks for the info.
    I may stop by Moffett Field here in the Bay Area this afternoon on the off chance that the JAG is drilling this weekend.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moffett_Federal_Airfield

    It's possible that the JAG you spoke to is simply not that familiar with reserve-related issues because this might not happen often enough to where most JAGs would have experience, if they were involved in the first place. I'd also suggest you contact ROA (www.roa.org) and see if they can recommend some type of ombudsman who can help you with this. I know little more than what I've researched for this thread (which generally just confirmed what I've been taught over the years), but if you want, I can e-mail you if I find more.

  11. Paralithodes


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    29   5:29pm Tue 9 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Troy says

    Nomograph says


    They become wards of the state. Don’t you understand this?

    No, they’re FREE MEN. With a 50% of going BK when the next medical crisis hits.
    Just saw this on the web tonight:
    “Anthem Blue Cross’s parent company, Wellpoint Inc., earned a record $2.7 billion in profits for the last quarter of 2009. Its quarterly sales grew to $19 billion, up 26 percent from $15.1 billion in the comparable 2008 period, Sebelius pointed out.”
    14% pure profit. Plus jacking up the cost of billing 30% or more, AND all the make-work jobs, ~50,000 in WellPoint. WLP takes in $60B in premiums and spends $45B on care, a 25% skim. All hail the efficiency of the private sector.

    All hail the ignorance (in some cases willful) of leftists, including those who believe every black and white talking point the Administration feeds them.

    WellPoint, Inc. (NYSE: WLP) today announced that fourth quarter 2009 net income was $2.7 billion, or $5.95 per share. The results included net after-tax income of approximately $2.2 billion, or $4.79 per share, resulting from a gain on the sale of the NextRx pharmacy benefit management subsidiaries ("NextRx"), partially offset by costs for restructuring activities and intangible asset impairments. Excluding these items, adjusted net income for the quarter totaled
    $536.0 million
    , or $1.16 per share (see page 14).

    Your comments regarding their quarterly sales, etc. are irrelevant. As far as "make-work jobs," ROFL LOL ROFL, you really think the goverment will be different? Oh, maybe this time, with this program, despite that they are no different than their current programs, they can change: yes they can!

    Excluding the sale of NextRx, what was their profit margin, Troy? Let's see if you are even willing to give an honest answer to that!

  12. ¥


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    30   5:54pm Tue 9 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Excluding the sale of NextRx, what was their profit margin, Troy?

    Point taken on the subsidiary sale, but I already listed their overhead. 75% of premiums go to care. 25% overhead. It's right on the 10-K.

  13. Paralithodes


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    31   7:30pm Tue 9 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Troy says

    Excluding the sale of NextRx, what was their profit margin, Troy?
    Point taken on the subsidiary sale, but I already listed their overhead. 75% of premiums go to care. 25% overhead. It’s right on the 10-K.

    That is irrelevant. Despite any strawman argument that those opposing the Democrats' plans must think all is OK with the system and health insurance companies, no one does.

    The real point here is that you just parrotted (in this case please try not to take my use of that term personally) administration talking points that are little more than propaganda, because they attempt to portray the insurance industry - Wellpoint in this particular case - as much more profitable than they are, to politically incite people against them. You accepted the point about the sale, presumably because you understand how that works. The majority of people do not have any idea. Therefore they are easy pray to this type of propaganda. How is it ANY different from what you may think comes from Fox, Rush, or Beck, other than it is from the actual government that you want us to trust? Ask yourself, why does the administration have to lie by omission? Or are they incompetent?

  14. Paralithodes


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    32   11:24am Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Wow, responses to this thread seemed to dry up quick.... It must be just too much for some to acknowledge that the issue here just may not be private industry and may be government management, or that some of the liberals here are victims of government administration propaganda....

  15. elliemae


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    33   12:26pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    The same people post the same threads every time. It's boring, libs vs. conservatives. I'm waiting for Mikey to return, he's fun.

  16. iwog


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    34   12:32pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Paralithodes says

    That is irrelevant. Despite any strawman argument that those opposing the Democrats’ plans must think all is OK with the system and health insurance companies, no one does.

    It MIGHT be a straw man argument if anyone was bothering to make it, however the only one who keeps bringing up this false issue is you.

    Those opposing the health care bill but lacking any alternative ideas (you're the poster boy for this) are a complete waste of time and shouldn't be involved in the dialog.

    Obama: The ship is sinking, lets get into lifeboats.
    Paralithodes: You can't use lifeboats!!! They are defective!
    Obama: So what do we do?
    Paralithodes: Huh? I have no ideas. I suppose we'll just have to drown.

  17. elliemae


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    35   12:38pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    iwog says

    Obama: The ship is sinking, lets get into lifeboats.
    Paralithodes: You can’t use lifeboats!!! They are defective!
    Obama: So what do we do?
    Paralithodes: Huh? I have no ideas. I suppose we’ll just have to drown.

    You quack me up!

  18. iwog


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    36   12:39pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Paralithodes says

    Wow, responses to this thread seemed to dry up quick…. It must be just too much for some to acknowledge that the issue here just may not be private industry and may be government management, or that some of the liberals here are victims of government administration propaganda….

    The thread dried up because people like yourself have no solutions. You just bitch and whine at what everyone else says.

    In fact just to be sure, I scanned the entire thread and another thread too. You have NOT ONCE proposed anything of substance. You have NOT ONCE introduced a hypothesis or a solution or any ideas whatsoever. In fact you appear to only have three reasons for being here:

    1. To attack anyone with a liberal idea or who is writing in defense of a liberal idea.
    2. To play semantics games that are devoid of any greater meaning.

    Of course I may be wrong, therefore please point me to the thread where you present a logical solution to anything.

  19. Vaticanus


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    37   12:43pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    iwog says

    Obama: The ship is sinking, lets get into lifeboats.

    Actually it is more like:

    the ship is sinking!
    Obama (and PtB) "quick, shoot a hole in the bottom of the boat to let the water out!"

  20. Paralithodes


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    38   2:38pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    "Those opposing the health care bill but lacking any alternative ideas (you’re the poster boy for this) are a complete waste of time and shouldn’t be involved in the dialog. "

    Of course, if I did offer any alternatives that happened to coincide with what Republicans are already proposing for some fixes, those would also be simply dismissed as "talking points," so clearly, ANYTHING anyone proposes that is not specifically an increased-government-control solution appears to be a waste of time in your opinion.

    Meanwhile, In order to make the point that the ship is actually sinking, and sinking fast, the White House itself is engaging in PROPAGANDA. The Wellpoint profit is the perfect example. If everything was exactly as they say regarding both the problem and the solution, why not just present things honestly?

    Perhaps dishonesty from the White House itself in order to incite people doesn't bother you.

  21. tatupu70


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    39   3:26pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Paralithodes--

    Let me ask this then--

    1. Do you agree that the US outspends every other country in the world in health care costs/person?
    2. Do you agree that the US is somewhere in the middle of health care rankings? Based on outcomes?
    3. Do you think that there is some reason why the US couldn't adopt the best of other countries' plans?

  22. Paralithodes


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    40   8:22pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Tatupu, all good, valid questions. I will have to go back to my original question.... If things are as they say, why did the Administration engage in propaganda regarding Wellpoint, by misrepresenting its profits to the people in order to incite anger against insurance companies? If the issue is so clear, why engage in this? Why should someone who recognizes this type of dishonesty have any trust that - referring to your questions (1) this is relevant since the focus is on the middle man, (2) this is true without carefully examining the validity individual component comparisons and the weightings of each in the "ranking" (weightings are usually subjective), and (3) you already agree that the current plan does nothing of the sort?

  23. iwog


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    41   11:13pm Sun 14 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected  

    Paralithodes says

    Tatupu, all good, valid questions. I will have to go back to my original question…. If things are as they say, why did the Administration engage in propaganda regarding Wellpoint, by misrepresenting its profits to the people in order to incite anger against insurance companies? If the issue is so clear, why engage in this? Why should someone who recognizes this type of dishonesty have any trust that - referring to your questions (1) this is relevant since the focus is on the middle man, (2) this is true without carefully examining the validity individual component comparisons and the weightings of each in the “ranking” (weightings are usually subjective), and (3) you already agree that the current plan does nothing of the sort?

    Three valid questions. No valid answers.

    Par.

  24. tatupu70


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    42   4:02am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Paralithodes says

    Tatupu, all good, valid questions. I will have to go back to my original question…. If things are as they say, why did the Administration engage in propaganda regarding Wellpoint, by misrepresenting its profits to the people in order to incite anger against insurance companies? If the issue is so clear, why engage in this? Why should someone who recognizes this type of dishonesty have any trust that - referring to your questions (1) this is relevant since the focus is on the middle man, (2) this is true without carefully examining the validity individual component comparisons and the weightings of each in the “ranking” (weightings are usually subjective), and (3) you already agree that the current plan does nothing of the sort?

    So, do I understand this to be a very long way to say no? To all three questions? If you'll answer those, then I'll tackle your questions.

  25. Paralithodes


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    43   6:10am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    iwog says

    Three valid questions. No valid answers.

    Odd... So you don't think that questioning Administration propaganda is a valid question, and that is your excuse for not providing a valid answer? I guess that if the Democrats and their talking point outlets tell you something, it is always unquestionably true, or if it is not true, it is always excusable?

    Tatupu: You can consider it to be a very long way of saying that I'm not willing to play diversionary games. Your questions are all good, but they are not directly related to my question/point to which you were responding. I should have just been as direct as you: "If you'll answer [my questions], then I'll tackle your questions."

  26. tatupu70


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    44   6:28am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Paralithodes says

    Tatupu: You can consider it to be a very long way of saying that I’m not willing to play diversionary games. Your questions are all good, but they are not directly related to my question/point to which you were responding. I should have just been as direct as you: “If you’ll answer [my questions], then I’ll tackle your questions.”

    I wasn't responding to any of your points. I was asking you 3 questions. I was trying elevate the discussion away from partisan BS into something useful. But if you'd like to get back into the same old liberal/conservative rehashing, then by all means continue with your usual postings.

  27. Nomograph


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    45   6:43am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    tatupu70 says

    1. Do you agree that the US outspends every other country in the world in health care costs/person?
    2. Do you agree that the US is somewhere in the middle of health care rankings? Based on outcomes?
    3. Do you think that there is some reason why the US couldn’t adopt the best of other countries’ plans?

    Paratesticles says

    Administration propaganda

    How odd . . . the answers to those three questions were the same during the Bush II administration, and the Clinton administration, and the Bush I administration. . .etc. Are you now advocating an mulitadministrative conspiracy theory?

    Paratesticles says

    Wow, responses to this thread seemed to dry up quick….

    Ain't that the truth. You were on better footing when you simply blames "libs" for your problems. Your arguments rapidly fall apart when facts become introduced.

  28. Paralithodes


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    46   7:14am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nomograph says

    Your arguments rapidly fall apart when facts become introduced.

    Yet someone else who doesn't want to address why the Administration was putting forth propaganda regarding Wellpoint's profits....

    And wow, you made a clever take-off of my screen name to throw out a personal attack! I take it that is one of the "facts" that you have introduced that make my arguments fall apart...

  29. Paralithodes


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    47   7:22am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    tatupu70 says

    Paralithodes says


    Tatupu: You can consider it to be a very long way of saying that I’m not willing to play diversionary games. Your questions are all good, but they are not directly related to my question/point to which you were responding. I should have just been as direct as you: “If you’ll answer [my questions], then I’ll tackle your questions.”

    I wasn’t responding to any of your points. I was asking you 3 questions. I was trying elevate the discussion away from partisan BS into something useful. But if you’d like to get back into the same old liberal/conservative rehashing, then by all means continue with your usual postings.

    So it is partisan BS to point out that the Administration engaged in partisan BS by twisting and misrepresenting Wellpoints profits for the purpose of getting people even more angry at insurance companies, and to ask what valid reason they would have to do so?

  30. tatupu70


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    48   7:23am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    My lord--you're that surprised that politicos try to spin a story to support their agenda? Are you kidding me? This is the lead story on th 10 O'Clock news in your world?

    Now--can we try to get somewhere?

  31. Paralithodes


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    49   7:33am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    tatupu70 says

    My lord–you’re that surprised that politicos try to spin a story to support their agenda? Are you kidding me? This is the lead story on th 10 O’Clock news in your world?
    Now–can we try to get somewhere?

    I take it that your way of "elevating the discussion away from partisan BS" is to simply ignore/refuse to address the question while similtaneously exagerating its personal importance to the person asking it, and downplaying the actual behavior being questioned?

    The Democrats are making the insurance companies out to be the central villian in the health care debate. If they in fact are, then present the facts. If they need to "spin a story" by misrepresenting facts, then they deserved to be called upon it. I will take your response above as an indirect, though possibly unintentional acknowledgement of one of the reasons *why* many people may be skeptical of the Democrats' plans: because the core leaders are "spin[ing] a story to support their agenda.

  32. tatupu70


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    50   7:51am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Paralithodes says

    I take it that your way of “elevating the discussion away from partisan BS” is to simply ignore/refuse to address the question while similtaneously exagerating its personal importance to the person asking it, and downplaying the actual behavior being questioned?

    No--my way was to try to rise above the Democrat/Republican or liberal/conservative nonsense. That's why I ignored your obviously partisan question. We can argue about whether insurance companies make lots of money or lots and lots and lots of money, but what's the point? I don't think I'm downplaying anything--I think I'm playing it about right. Spinning foreign intelligence to show that Iraq has WMDs-now that's a story. Highlighting an insurance companies profit statement without pointing out the fine print? That doesn't make my blood boil.
    Paralithodes says

    The Democrats are making the insurance companies out to be the central villian in the health care debate. If they in fact are, then present the facts. If they need to “spin a story” by misrepresenting facts, then they deserved to be called upon it. I will take your response above as an indirect, though possibly unintentional acknowledgement of one of the reasons *why* many people may be skeptical of the Democrats’ plans: because the core leaders are “spin[ing] a story to support their agenda.

    I don't accept your premise. And don't take my statement as an acknoledgement of any such thing, please. IMO, if people are skeptical of the Democrats' plans, it's because of the misinformation being broadcast by the various groups that are so happy with the status quo. (Now why do you think that might be?)
    Finally--are you going to respond to my questions? I've answered yours. If not--you shouldn't post here anymore. You're just a shill.

  33. Honest Abe


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    51   8:23am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    There were some posts a week ago about "medical vacations" where U.S. citizens go to Costa Rica for low cost, good quality medical procedures and surgeries. It turns out there is socialized health care there. The head honcho, chief medical director of the country was asked why the costs were so much lower in Costa Rica compared to America and his response was two things: "Lower salaries and virtually no medical malpractice lawsuits".

  34. tatupu70


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    52   8:28am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Honest Abe says

    There were some posts a week ago about “medical vacations” where U.S. citizens go to Costa Rica for low cost, good quality medical procedures and surgeries. It turns out there is socialized health care there. The head honcho, chief medical director of the country was asked why the costs were so much lower in Costa Rica compared to America and his response was two things: “Lower salaries and virtually no medical malpractice lawsuits”.

    Do you have a link to that?

  35. Paralithodes


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    53   8:59am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    if people are skeptical of the Democrats’ plans, it’s because of the misinformation being broadcast by the various groups that are so happy with the status quo.

    Roger that! The misinformation is all from those against the Democrats plans.... Misrepresenting a specific insurance company's profits to make them out to look like they are fleecing the people and further anger people about the insurance companies is not really "misinformation." It was simply not pointing out the "fine print" though that "fine print" completely invalidates the point of using a specific company as a specific example. Therefore, doing such things as this should not give anyone any valid skepticism of the Democrats' claims about the problems and the roots of the problems: You deny my premise and point simply because it is politically expedient for you to do so, and I am the shill?...... LOL!!!!!!!!

    1. Do you agree that the US outspends every other country in the world in health care costs/person?

    Yes.

    2. Do you agree that the US is somewhere in the middle of health care rankings? Based on outcomes?

    I can neither agree nor disagree because I have not done enough research. I can only go by general articles and headlines stating as such. But without understanding how these specific rankings were created - how the individual components were measured to ensure reliability across countries, and how the actual weightings were developed, I cannot answer. The former is more technical, the latter can be very subjective and easily manipulated whether intentionally or not. I have read conflicting information regarding these rankings from various sources and of course the political leanings of each source come to different conclusions. But more importantly, I have some background in research methods and statistics and generally do not trust the competence of anyone in the media - on either side - to report on the validity of such rankings. So again, I neither agree nor disagree simply because I have not researched it enough and will not rely on headlines or "talking points." There are likely areas where we excel and areas where we fail in comparison.

    3. Do you think that there is some reason why the US couldn’t adopt the best of other countries’ plans?

    No. Now the argument is... which components are the best of other countries plans, and how do we get such components to play nicely together without further blowing up the system? As you have already said, you don't believe the current plans really address the fundamental problems.

  36. tatupu70


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    54   9:28am Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Paralithodes says

    No. Now the argument is… which components are the best of other countries plans, and how do we get such components to play nicely together without further blowing up the system? As you have already said, you don’t believe the current plans really address the fundamental problems.

    Yes, I agree. I like the idea that someone else posted here--a commission. Similar to the way we determine which military bases to close. Has to be above politics to allow everyone to pass the buck when the results are announced.

  37. Honest Abe


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    55   1:05pm Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Tatu - I'll try to find the link. It was an out of context post about Rush Limbaugh saying he would "leave the country" if health care passed in America. What he really said was he would leave the country to seek major medical care elsewhere, (Costa Rica), if HC passed in America. I'll do what I can to find it. Abe

  38. Nomograph


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    56   1:56pm Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)  

    Paratesticles says

    Wellpoint’s profits….

    Not sure what you're talking about, but Wellpoint's profits are not relevant. Let's repeat it again:

    tatupu70 says

    1. Do you agree that the US outspends every other country in the world in health care costs/person?
    2. Do you agree that the US is somewhere in the middle of health care rankings? Based on outcomes?
    3. Do you think that there is some reason why the US couldn’t adopt the best of other countries’ plans?

    You suddenly became strangely silent on the issue.

    Paratesticles says

    you made a clever take-off of my screen name

    Thanks. I thought it was quite clever myself. In your case it would seem that crabs and genitalia go hand in hand.

  39. Paralithodes


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    57   2:37pm Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nomograph says

    You suddenly became strangely silent on the issue.

    Weird, do you even read three posts back in the threads you post in????? You're pretty sloppy, even for someone who seems to have to resort to name calling....

  40. Paralithodes


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    58   2:39pm Mon 15 Mar 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Nomograph says

    Not sure what you’re talking about, but Wellpoint’s profits are not relevant.

    So then why did the Administration use Wellpoint as a specific example in the first place? Not sure what I'm talking about? Maybe you should read the threads in which you post....

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