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September 12, 2037


By e   Follow   Tue, 3 Apr 2007, 12:37pm   5,311 views   333 comments
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http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,915445,00.html

Unleashing their pent-up demands and taking advantage of fairly easy mortgage money, millions of people are shopping for houses. In Santa Rosa, Calif., a 90-minute commute north of San Francisco, buyers in June began camping out in sleeping bags on a Thursday night to be first in line Saturday morning when 27 houses in a new subdevelopment went on sale. In the Kendall neighborhood of southwestern Dade County, the last open area reasonably close to Miami, prospective buyers on weekends parade caravan-like in cars and campers through flag-festooned developments.

Sound familiar? Yet another story from 2005? Nope... the publication date of this article was September 12, 1977 - nearly 30 years ago.

Let's look at some other snippets from this time capsule:

Rachelle Resnick, 27, a San Francisco school-bus driver, counts herself fortunate to have bought—with much help from her father—a two-bedroom house that she candidly describes as "a little nothing." It cost $48,500, and she will have to spend $5,000 or so to repair termite damage. But had she waited, it almost surely would have gone higher. The house sold in June 1976 for $28,000, and has since been resold four times by four separate speculators, none of whom lived in it.

Such speculation is common in California and is beginning to appear in other states. Indeed, California is a housing Oz unto itself; its population is still growing faster than that of any other large state except Texas; the recession bit especially deep in California, creating a huge backlog of demand, and strict environmental requirements severely limit the land available for housing. Prices are starting to level off, but the level is in the stratosphere. In platinum-plated Beverly Hills, one cynical real estate broker exclaims: "Oh, I have such a dog on the market right now! Come to my Sunday open house and see what I'm offering for $185,000. I can tell you, for $185,000 you get a piece of nothing." Tom Lorch, a high school principal who is looking for a house in San Francisco, adds, "When we talk about houses, it's money, money, money—not how we're going to live, which seems wrong. And these absurd numbers, $100,000. It's some kind of fantasy world."

Does anyone know what happened to the housing market in California after 1977? Or was the impact of Prop 13 too influential in the resulting statistics?

And finally, the social impact:

Like all inflations, housing inflation has serious social effects. Some wives feel forced to go to work, not because they want to have careers or earn their own spending money, but because buying that dream house nowadays usually requires two incomes. Six out often first-time buyers are families in which both husband and wife hold jobs. Couples who want to have children sometimes face the brutal choice of a house or a child—and, more often than in past years, select the house. In the early postwar period, sociologists and merchants suggested that Americans spent too little on shelter, too much on less basic needs. If so, the market has more than corrected that tendency. In order to buy a house, couples are scrimping drastically on other spending—for cars, food and even furniture; not a few fancy new houses are almost bare inside. Young people have always asked parents for help in scraping up the down payment on a home; mortgage bankers call the payoff from papa a "gift letter." Now the pool of cash required to spend the first night in a new house—frequently $20,000 to $30,000—has made this sacrifice of independence a matter of necessity rather than choice.

So... this was in 9/1977. Now, it's hard enough predicting what 9/2007 will be like - but what do you think September 12, 2037 will be like?

Already, both parents are working, realtors are spinning the Bay Area as a place so great that you don't need to take vacations - what's next? Will child labor make a come back? ("Monta Vista High School and Fireworks Factory #88"?) How much more special can it get here?

(Bonus points for including Peak Oil in your prediction...)

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  1. FormerAptBroker


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    254   9:02pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    SFBubbleBuyer Says:

    > I qualify myself as a liberal republican
    > or a conservative democrat.
    > I’m all for :
    > A monkey in every garage, and an elephant
    > in every pot. Or was that the other way around?

    How about a monkey in every trunk?

    http://www.trunkmonkey.com/content/view/28/1/

  2. Peter P


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    255   9:02pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    And getting into a top college means nothing either.

  3. skibum


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    256   9:08pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    It’s all about facing the facts. If the market was so weak, which it is clearly not for anybody actually bidding on, and looking for a house to buy, how could this house go pending in under 2 weeks at $3.5 million asking? I was going to see this last Sunday, and it was already in contract!

    Yeah baby, MarinaPrime/FaceReality/ConfusedRenter is BACK! Troll on, dude!

  4. Peter P


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    257   9:09pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Was the house sold for 250K over asking? :)

  5. Malcolm


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    258   9:18pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Jon Says:
    April 4th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
    Here’s a philosophical question.
    Let’s say one concludes that the housing market or a stock is disconnected from funadmentals and that prices are mostly speculative. Let’s say you expected the speculative mania to continue so you purchased the home or stock with the intention of selling it to a greater fool down the road at a profit. You know at some point someone will get left holding the bag.
    Outside of risk factors, would you have any problems with that, moral or otherwise?

    Why would you feel guilty that someone's selfishness harms them? First, everybody puts a different value on things so to try to determine if they are overpaying is irrelevant. Secondly, even if you think so this is a competitive free market, you won't get anywhere if you can't stomache making a profit.

  6. Malcolm


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    259   9:19pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Would you feel guilty getting a bargain on something?

  7. Peter P


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    260   9:23pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Let’s get the government out of the “marriage” and “civil union” business.

    There are many legal consequences (e.g. gift tax, estate, etc) of a marriage. If the government is to uphold the legal system it must uphold the integrity of marriage.

  8. Malcolm


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    261   9:24pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I can tell you not getting married is the way to go. Everyone I know who is married wishes they weren't.

  9. DaBoss


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    262   9:24pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    "1- The 30 year fixed mortgage rate in 1977 was not 18%"

    My parents home was at around 7-8% fixed 30 year.

  10. Peter P


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    263   9:25pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    What matters is what kind of friends you make at schools before college.

    Absolutely. This is why I think golf is a very good investment.

  11. Peter P


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    264   9:25pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Everyone I know who is married wishes they weren’t.

    I am happily married. You should un-know me now. :)

  12. Malcolm


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    265   9:26pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    lol, let's talk in 5 years.

  13. Malcolm


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    266   9:27pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    God I hate golf.

  14. DaBoss


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    267   9:27pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    pending in under 2 weeks at $3.5 million asking?

    Someone I knew well bought for 3.4 in Saratoga in 2000 but then had to sell in 2001... took a 800K loss.

  15. Peter P


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    268   9:29pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Would you feel guilty getting a bargain on something?

    Guilt is a useless emotion. It will drag you down. It is best not to feel it at all.

    Let’s say you expected the speculative mania to continue so you purchased the home or stock with the intention of selling it to a greater fool down the road at a profit. You know at some point someone will get left holding the bag.
    Outside of risk factors, would you have any problems with that, moral or otherwise?

    No problem whatsoever. The bag holder should have known better. It is morally justifiable that his money be put into better uses.

  16. Malcolm


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    269   9:29pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Seriously, even with my girlfriend sharing a bank account and the house, it seems so simple to be able to undo everything if we wanted to.

  17. DaBoss


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    270   9:30pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    , which gets their money from hedge funds (or private equity)---

    no its millionairs who invest into VCs ... many are in tech themself.. CEO/CFOs
    no hedge funds invest into startups... no return .. its all a lost for several years.

  18. Peter P


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    271   9:30pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    lol, let’s talk in 5 years.

    I am happily married for 5+ years already.

  19. Peter P


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    272   9:32pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    God I hate golf.

    I hate golf too. It is a silly game but I met most of my friends directly or indirectly through golf.

  20. Malcolm


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    273   9:32pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Now I know you're lying.

  21. Peter P


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    274   9:34pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Seriously, even with my girlfriend sharing a bank account and the house, it seems so simple to be able to undo everything if we wanted to.

    Be careful, that can be considered a common-law marriage in some states.

    I am not a lawyer.

  22. Malcolm


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    275   9:35pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I always make friends where I work, and when people talk about golf I know right then we won't be hanging out. That was one thing about grad school, that's all these guys could talk about. That and getting drunk.

  23. Peter P


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    276   9:35pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Now I know you’re lying.

    How?

    This statement is false.

    Now you know I must have lied.

  24. Malcolm


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    277   9:36pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Yup, but not in Cali

  25. Malcolm


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    278   9:37pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    ha ha ha

  26. Peter P


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    279   9:37pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    I always make friends where I work, and when people talk about golf I know right then we won’t be hanging out.

    I never really made friends at work. I like to be as detached as possible.

  27. Malcolm


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    280   9:38pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    I thought about our conversation earlier when the waitress said they were out of chocolate cream pie, but they did have a slice of French Silk.

  28. FormerAptBroker


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    281   9:39pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Peter P Says:

    > And getting into a top college means nothing either.

    Some of the smartest (and most successful) guys I know are Kauffman Fellows:
    http://www.kauffmanfellows.org/
    It must be some kind of fluke that since “getting in to a top college means nothing” that so many Kauffman Fellows went to top schools…

    If I am at a party at the home of anyone that works in VC or PE there is a 50% chance that anyone I talk to will have a degree from Harvard, Stanford, or Wharton…

  29. Peter P


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    282   9:42pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Some of the smartest (and most successful) guys I know have opposable thumbs... ;)

  30. Malcolm


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    283   9:44pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Just another way to look down at someone else. I used to hate some engineers at an old job because all they could do is complain out of jealousy that the HR manager (who made more than them) had received a BBA degree from National University.

  31. Malcolm


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    284   9:47pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    That's the thing with engineers, they just don't get it. It wasn't the school (for those out of CA National is a bit of a joke) they should be knocking, it's the fact that she F'd the right guy who took her along with him throughout his career.

  32. Peter P


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    285   9:48pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Just another way to look down at someone else. I used to hate some engineers at an old job because all they could do is complain out of jealousy that the HR manager (who made more than them) had received a BBA degree from National University.

    Very true.

    Another way to look at it: the manager made more than they did with just a BBA degree. I think they need to wake up. One cannot find truth in a degree. One must go make some truth.

  33. Peter P


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    286   9:49pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Hey Malcolm, whatever works. :)

  34. Peter P


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    287   9:53pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    The reason I posed this question is, would you therefore have no moral qualms about investing in a ponzi scheme? A ponzi is purely speculative, based on greater fool thinking.

    Nothing wrong if it is legal.

  35. Malcolm


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    288   9:56pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    That's what I said. :)

    But really, engineers are like that. They are so worried about what someone else has going on that their morale goes to crap and they end up getting canned. Engineers remind me of migrant workers in the fact that they continuously make themselves disposable. They are absolutely appalling when it comes to money, I know some that are hating the housing market. You know, the trend pointed up so that is where prices are heading.

  36. Peter P


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    289   10:01pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    Engineers also try to be logical and rational. However, they are frequently emotionally immature. As a result, they keep wondering why they are not making the right decisions.

  37. Malcolm


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    290   10:04pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    First ripping someone off (lying or not delivering value) is wrong in my book. Anytime you are defrauding someone it is unethical/immoral To be clear a ponzi is merely a hopeless mess requiring increasing infusion to keep it afloat. Legitimate models can find themselves in this situation.

    I think you mean pyramid schemes, and they are not becoming anymore popular than they have always been. No I would not participate in one, and I don't see a similarity between a pyramid scheme and putting an asset out on the open market for sale.

  38. Peter P


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    291   10:04pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    BTW, I am an engineer.

    Is it ethical to profit from the demise of others?

    I would say yes. Doing so will release resources from the less-competent, which is a good thing.

    What to short next?

  39. Peter P


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    292   10:06pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected  

    First ripping someone off (lying or not delivering value) is wrong in my book. Anytime you are defrauding someone it is unethical/immoral To be clear a ponzi is merely a hopeless mess requiring increasing infusion to keep it afloat. Legitimate models can find themselves in this situation.

    Fraud is wrong and illegal. But profiting from the delusional is perfectly fine.

  40. Malcolm


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    293   10:07pm Wed 4 Apr 2007   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike  

    Peter, it was like watching an infant. They haven't got a clue how the world works. They try to approach everything with logic and then get frustrated because they can't cope with the fact that their logic is a little different than how the masses think. They are always Johnny come latelys and have no concept of first mover advantages, or establishing a competitive advantage. Duh, the trend is this, or they sold it for....I should be able to....

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