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Sadistic, Greedy Buyers Toying with Sellers Like Cats with Prey*
Copyright © 2007 UnReality Times®. All Rights Reserved.
by David Lereah, Leslie Appleton-Young and John Karevoll
As the alleged real estate bear market enters its second year of hitting bottom, some buyers out there are clearly enjoying this one-time market aberration --perhaps a little too much. Is deriving sadistic glee from other peoples' suffering a nice thing to do? The Germans have a word for this: schadenfreude (and we all know what cruelty the Germans are capable of!).
According to Donald Parisi, president of the Realtor Association of the Fox Valley (IL), buyer cruelty is reaching grotesque proportions:
"Parisi said he believes ‘doom and gloom’ media coverage has hurt the market. 'We’ve seen some very ridiculous offers,' Parisi said. 'People shouldn’t be desperate … The problem is some buyers are out there just to take advantage of the marketplace.'"
This view is further clarified by Jim Fox, manager of Realty One in Canton, Ohio:
“As unrealistic, said Fox, are some would-be buyers; they expect sellers to practically give their homes away. ‘Some people, … they want us to help them steal a home,’ Fox said.”
Even more to the point than Mr. Parisi, Florida Realtor™ Becky Troutt gets right to the heart of the matter:
"I think some of the buyers are out for blood! ...There is a difference from 'getting a deal' and 'trying to get something for nothing'! Just because the market is slow right now and homes take longer to sell.....doesn't mean that sellers are going to give their homes away and it doesn't give you the right to go for the jugular vein! How insulted would you be if you were that seller and someone asked you to come down off your price $90,000? Do you think you would say...ok sure no problem. I'm not spinning my heels in mud with an unrealistic buyer who only wants to try and rip a seller off!"
A note to home buyers: If you only want to pay $200,000 for a home......don't look at homes that are $90,000 more than you want to spend or can afford just because it's a slow market, and you think you can get a seller down that much.....because....IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!!"
Now, that's telling 'em like it is, Becky!
While the unbridled greed and glee exhibited by these sadistic buyers (and the American Dream™-hating press) are stomach-turning awful, they are not the primary causes of this upside-down market. The real culprit for this most unnatural and unhealthy market condition, is well understood in the industry:
"What appears to be driving the increase in foreclosures is that home values are not rising, DataQuick analyst Andrew LePage said. 'Take away home-price appreciation, or ratchet it down or even make prices negative, and all of those forms of (economic) distress start to result in increased foreclosure activity,' LePage said."
Clearly what's needed here is massive government intervention to protect homeowners and rekindle the normal 20%/year appreciation. This might take the form of a distressed homeowner mortgage buy-down, or federal underwriting for all the kindhearted subprime lenders who generously enabled low-income Americans participate in the American Dream™ (often mischaracterized by Gloom'n'Doomers as a "bailout").
To proactively tackle this looming crisis, the NAR and CAR have teamed up with the MBAA (Mortgage Bankers Association of America) to sponsor the Save the American Dream™ Act of 2007. Says NAR Chief Economist, David Lereah, "We are urging people to sign our online petition, and write, call, email and beg their Senators and Congresspersons to support this badly needed piece of mercy legislation. Home ownership is as American as apple pie --only you (and Uncle Sam) have the power to save it! Please do your patriotic duty and support the SADA. God bless."
[*Note: while the offset quotes and links are real, this 'article' is a parody]
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Redwood City, CA
Why does everyone hate our Freedom(tm) to pass on bad investments and inflated paper money to suckers? Why must you lowball? WHY?
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"A note to home buyers: If you only want to pay $200,000 for a home……don’t look at homes that are $90,000 more than you want to spend or can afford just because it’s a slow market, and you think you can get a seller down that much…..because….IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN!!!”
Or to really drive the point ...
Bring you BMW, find on of Becky's open houses...
And be sure to offer 100K less than asking.
Just to freaking insult her...
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surfer-x's website
Continued from prior thread
Prices in his area are likely higher than when I first started posting here or are only down slightly from 05’s highs.
Ventura has taken quite a sch-lacking lately and it is within our budget now. I just don’t know, way back when, in the mid 90’s, just out of grad school 1, I was making decent coin but had no down, it just wouldn’t work. I do have doubts in that if you don’t have the down maybe you shouldn’t sign the forms and make the payments. Mrs-X and I have no deductions, I think our only option to avoid the Uncle Sam man love each year is to go into debt. Either than or do the “my business loses money” thing but the stress might not be worth it. I figure if prices drop to 400K or so, this brings it into reach for those making about 80K, which is two earning 40K, which you can do at Trader Joes. It’s the TJ metric. Just don’t know. With the tax thingy it costs us about 300 more a month to “buy” in Ventura Vs. rent in $anta Barbara. Just don’t know. DinOR, can I contact you offline?
SuCkIt
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Redwood City, CA
It'd be interesting to see the data on Ventura. Watching the carnage in some of the CA towns, I can almost believe that there are areas heading back towards historic norms, especially given all the spin the NAR would like to heap on the numbers.
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surfer-x's website
SFBB, Ventura is dangerously close to historic norms. I just take the 10 year graph off of Zillow and fit it with a line and thats what it "should" be now. I then offered ~10% below that. If it goes through seller makes about 100K after holding for 8 years or so.
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Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to the rescue!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_bi_ge/risky_mortgages;_ylt=AmQ1WrwTaBuYfzryDac8PhIDW7oF
Fannie Mae, in a new program called "HomeStay," is offering new options so that lenders can help subprime borrowers refinance out of high-interest adjustable-rate mortgages or other difficult loans, said President and CEO Daniel Mudd. He said the company plans to stretch the term on subprime loans to 40 years from the current maximum 30 years — which will reduce monthly payments for borrowers by around 5 percent.
Will they offer 50 year loans for the special Bay Area?
Sheila Bair, chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., exhorted mortgage lenders to show flexibility toward borrowers to help staunch a flood of defaults among homeowners with subprime loans.
Many of those borrowers "could avoid foreclosure if they were offered (loans) that allow for affordable mortgage payments," Bair testified. "Restructuring their loans into more affordable products, especially 30-year fixed-rate mortgages, would bring them back to good standing, allow them to repair their credit histories and dampen the impact that foreclosures may have on the broader housing market."
Huh? Didn't these people go away from 30 year loans because they weren't affordable?
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"which will reduce monthly payments for borrowers by around 5 percent."
They need a 30 - 50 percent reduction to stay afloat. and if they did take the deal, it just takes one unfortunate event to take them back to foreclosure or they eat Cup-O-Noodles for the next 40 years. WOW! Slow death....
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Redwood City, CA
These sorts of programs will have a limited impact. The absolute best they can do is put the FB into a fixed rate 40 year mortgage. This might slow the foreclosure rate, but people who couldn't sell out of their ARM aren't going to be able to sell out of their 40 year FRM either. Either they stay put and pay a 5% reduced payment on a loan they couldn't 'afford' at 5% higher... and get foreclosed on... or they try and short sale.
The only people this will REALLY benifit are the people who bought a home they COULD afford, but had a reaaaaly toxic loan sold to them by a MB who was in it only for the cash. And I suspect these people could get the refi on themselves.
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Hampton, VA
Savers now get the chance to be evil.
I'm going to lowball big time, and of course be turned down.
Then when the house is still unsold months later, I will get a call seeing if I'm still interested.
Then I knock another 20% off the price and do the "evil dance"
It will be the revenge of the "too stupid to take advantage of leverage" crowd.
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"How insulted would you be if you were that seller and someone asked you to come down off your price $90,000? Do you think you would say…ok sure no problem. I’m not spinning my heels in mud with an unrealistic buyer who only wants to try and rip a seller off!”
Sellers already ripped themselves off for buying overpriced investment properties. :)
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The only people this will REALLY benifit are the people who bought a home they COULD afford, but had a reaaaaly toxic loan sold to them by a MB who was in it only for the cash. And I suspect these people could get the refi on themselves.
Maybe this not very useful PLAN is the one where everyone wins.
Politicians can take credit for "saving" housing.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac can take credit for "saving" housing - justifying their existence.
Some FB's will be "saved" - but most won't be.
Savers won't be completely screwed over.
Sounds like a win-win.
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Davis, CA
What exactly does "spinning my heels in mud" mean?
Sounds kinda dirty....
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"“Restructuring their loans into more affordable products, especially 30-year fixed-rate mortgages, would bring them back to good standing, allow them to repair their credit histories and dampen the impact that foreclosures may have on the broader housing market.”
At what end do you restructure...
(1) Reduce the principle ... stings the bond holder
(2) Reduce the payment ....stings the bond holder
(3) Increase the term dates... stings the bond holder
(4) Decrease the Interest Rates... Cant do that!
There is no real solution for this. These guys are just hoping to avoid
any regulation or goverment medling.
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I love the thread graphics. My wife always some real mice for our cats as toys. But that would be too cruel. And too messy.
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HARM's website
@austingal,
Congratulations!
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Redwood City, CA
Congrats, Austingal!
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Probably will be lurking more than writing, for quite some time. Baby boy is fine. 8 pounds 3 oz.
Congrats. Did you buy him a house yet? Otherwise, he'll be priced out forever!
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Congrats! New life!
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HARM's website
James,
Take a look at the "source" for your answer:
Copyright © 2007 UnReality Times®
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HARM, I trust that you have fictionalized the persons?
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Forget pocket listing, you can buy a pocket house...
http://tinyurl.com/2qq8ht
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@Peter P,
The offset blockquotes (with sources cited) are real. The rest is geniune parody.
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I see.
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austingal,
Congrats! Hopefully, the market will "correct" while you're at home nesting, and by the time the little one is old enough to deal with a move, it'll be the right time to buy.
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CB,
Is that what they mean when they say "So small you have to go outside to change your mind"? Chicago had a lot of "coach houses" that faced the alley left over from the horse and buggy days but this is ridiculous!
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Redwood City, CA
You never saw Realtors saying :
“Parisi said he believes ‘boom and bloom’ media coverage has hurt the market. ‘We’ve seen some very ridiculous asking prices,’ Parisi said. ‘People shouldn’t be desperate to buy a home… The problem is some sellers are out there just to take advantage of the marketplace.’”
Even more to the point than Mr. Parisi, Florida Realtor™ Becky Troutt gets right to the heart of the matter:
“I think some of the sellers are out for blood! …There is a difference from ‘making a buck’ and ‘trying to get something for nothing’! Just because the market is hot right now and homes take less than 3 months to flip…..doesn’t mean that buyers should have to give their financial futures away and it doesn’t give you the right to go for the jugular vein! How insulted would you be if you were that buyer and someone asked you to $90,000 over they had paid for a house 5 months ago? Do you think you would say…ok sure no problem. I’m not spinning my wheels in mud with an unrealistic seller who only wants to try and rip a buyer off!”
A note to home sellers: If you want to make $90,000 flipping a home……don’t look at homes that are $200,000 when you buy it and gouging idiots with too much access to credit hoping they will spend more than they want to spend or can afford just because it’s a hot market, and you think you can get a buyer up that much…..because….IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN!!!”
Never saw that, did you? Realtors' as a group (with individuals dissenting, I'm sure) wet their pants with glee as their commissions shot up. Never once did you hear them bitching about greedy sellers robbing the buyers. Now that their commission checks are coming down, nothing but bitching and moaning.
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@SFBB,
Amen. You nailed it! The quotes so readily lent themselves to this they almost parody on their own don't they?
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I think many readers here are missing the sarcasm here. Read the thread post more carefully!
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Redwood City, CA
Posted to her blog.
How long before it's deleted?
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Too funny!
Another great example of creative writing! ...but you know they really feel like this.
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@austingal Congratulations!
@Space Ace
You forgot the universe of options that opens up when taxpayers are soaked for bail out bucks to make the bond holders whole. This Reddit discussion thread on bail outs tells me Congress will enact such legislation in one form or another. The mainstream population simply does not grasp that turning to the government means giving more taxes.
@SFBubbleBuyer
What will be even more interesting to watch is the one-two punch the Realtor industry will be taking. The first punch is the commissions dropping as you mentioned. The second is the trend of information control is going against their favor. They are beginning to lose their control on pricing data, and will have to show business value elsewhere in the transaction.
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Lets do the time warp dance...
http://www.dqnews.com/AA1996BAY12.shtm
Resale houses back in 1996
# Sold # Sold Pct. Med($K) Med($K) Pct.
Nov-95 Nov-96 Chng. Nov-95 Nov-96 Chng.
Alameda 807 863 6.9 $198 $207 4.5
Contra Costa 683 756 10.7 $190 $197 3.7
Marin 185 199 7.6 $337 $343 1.8
Napa 80 70 -12.5 $170 $175 2.9
San Francisco 260 283 8.8 $265 $269 1.5
San Mateo 456 528 15.8 $290 $284 -2.1
Santa Clara 1,108 1,031 -6.9 $257 $258 0.4
Solano 295 300 1.7 $147 $137 -6.8
Sonoma 383 395 3.1 $185 $185 0
Bay Area 4,257 4,425 3.9 $227 $229 0.9
Does anyone see prices around even 300K in Bay Area...
Any reason for the inflated prices... what changed??
(Maybe people got stupid)
Oh grasshoppers ... yea shall see...
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Space Ace,
Nice find! That helps put things in perspective. Given that things really started to "ramp up" from there doesn't mean prices like that haven't existed for a "long, long time". Sellers like to gloss over that too.
Now those are median prices in Minnesota.
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HARM's website
Posted my own 2 centavos on Becky Troutt's blog.
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Redwood City, CA
The sheer hypocrisy of that lady is astounding.
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surfer-x's website
My wife always some real mice for our cats as toys. But that would be too cruel. And too messy.
As Georgie says "that's not food, if it were it would be in my bowl"
Georgie has no desire to catch mice, Georgie is a very lazy cat.
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Brandon rulez!
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Redwood City, CA
SP,
I meant to imply that checks got smaller as well as less frequent in the "commission checks coming down" remarks. :)
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If buyers sense that prices will start falling, they will wait for lower prices. Which means n_o_b_o_d_y g_e_t_s p_a_i_d. This is the real reason that realtwhores and everyone else who benefits from the transaction (at the buyers’ expense) will do ANYTHING to hide the fact that prices are going down.
This is the buyer-seller standoff problem that's been brought up before. At some point, if buyers do not capitulate, the Realtors (TM) will turn to the sellers and ask, nay, beg them to lower their prices in order to get a sale.
I don't think we're close to that point in the "prime" Bay Area yet.
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Foreclosures in California up 800% y-o-y.