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Iwog says: We CAN tax the rich! The New American Dream! Amerca's fruitless quest: getting other people to pay for your broken nanny state.

By Vaticanus   Follow   Sun, 12 Sep 2010, 10:43pm   3,617 views   94 comments
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iwog says

" How would you like to go to work on November 1st and know that 50% of whatever you earned that day was going to the government while your CEO was only paying 15%? If that was me, it would really suck. "

iwog says

" There is literally no way to tax the bottom 50%* because they just don’t have any money. " *(of American laborers)

iwog says

" Increasing taxes on the 2nd and 3rd quintile (bottom 80%) to the point where we have a balanced budget will likely force them into poverty along with the 4th and 5th quintile.

So what are you left with? You can’t increase taxes on most of the country because they can’t even make it NOW without extensive consumer debt. "

iwog says

" How do you suggest we pay the nation’s bills? "

iwog says

" We CAN tax the rich. "

Yes, we can! I’m sure that they won’t be any more upset than you would be if you learned half your income* was taken by the government because you reached some arbitrary level that determined how much of your own money and income Uncle Sam will let you keep. I am sure none of the rich would move their money/business offshore. I am sure even fewer would find a loophole on how not to be found liable for taxes. And I am sure even less of them will use their vast wealth and power to find a way to pass all their liabilities on to the working class. Great plan!!!!!!!! Mr. Never Worked, ever, and Mrs. Never Will. If you can find a way to force the rich to pay for your big government wet dream then more power to you.

*(half was chosen as an example for illustrative purposes only and in acknowledgment of iwog's assertion that the marginal return on work above a certain level for a nurse was 50% as quoted above)

Me I think it more reasonable to reduce the size of government before it topples under its own weight. Don’t blame the rich for our problems. Blame the government for serving the rich at the expense of the working class.

It is by and large the big government that made the rich wealthy and gives and continues to build their enormous power.

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1. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

   55   9:08pm Tue 14 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Honest Abe says Nomo, time will tell which of us is right. I stand by my statements. You always seem retaliate with your little negative barbs. Haha, so be it. We’ll see who is right. Sounds good. I'll continue to plan for my family's future, and you can continue to plan for riots and famine. I hope it works out for you. Sort of.

2. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   56   9:08pm Tue 14 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Protected   Honest Abe says Nomo, time will tell which of us is right. I stand by my statements. You always seem retaliate with your little negative barbs. Haha, so be it. We’ll see who is right. During the last deflationary depression, we had too much food rather than too little. There was plenty of money to buy the food, but the people who HAD the money saw no reason to buy a bunch of food they couldn't eat, so they just locked their gold in a vault somewhere. The result was people starving in cities while farmers let their crops rot in the fields. Printing up 10 billion and dividing it among all citizens would have solved the crisis in a day.

3. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

   57   11:33pm Tue 14 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I am the opposite of an expert in 1930s history, but I think the record of FDR's intervention is a little more mixed than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Adjustment_Act The problem with just "printing" is that it is a bandaid on a bigger problem.

4. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   58   12:16pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (2)   iwog says Printing up 10 billion and dividing it among all citizens would have solved the crisis in a day. Taking your line of thought and applying it to today’s problem …. How much would you think is needed? I’m sure a paltry $10 billion wouldn’t do the trick. Maybe $10 trillion? What do you think? That’s a lot of dough to shovel ready out that helicopter, don’t you think Ben, I mean Iwog? And raising the minimum wage to say .... $50 an hour would help too. Fantasy Land is so much fun, but then that pesky thingy reality sets in to ruin it all. Too bad hyperinflation and all that laziness it would create in those people that would see no reason to work when the government would AGAIN give them money in order to jump start the slow economy (moral hazard).

5. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   59   12:19pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says There was plenty of money to buy the food, but the people who HAD the money saw no reason to buy a bunch of food they couldn’t eat, so they just locked their gold in a vault somewhere. The result was people starving in cities while farmers let their crops rot in the fields. What a bunch of bunk. The reason crops were rotting in the fields was because FDR paid the farmers NOT to bring their crops to market in order to artificially control the market prices. Honestly, where do you get this garbage from Duckie?

6. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   60   12:22pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says What a bunch of bunk. The reason crops were rotting in the fields was because FDR paid the farmers NOT to bring their crops to market in order to artificially control the market prices. Honestly, where do you get this garbage from Duckie? Why did FDR pay farmers not to bring their crops to market? Do you even know?

7. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   61   12:36pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   In order to artificially inflate the prices which theoretically raised the profits for farmers. My point being, YOUR reason the crops were “rotting in the fields while people in the cities starved” isn’t even close as to WHY they were rotting in the fields. But don’t let the facts interfere with your silly nonsense. Incidentally, did you know the Agricultural Adjustment Act was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court? Interesting, don't you think?

8. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

   62   12:39pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says In order to artificially inflate the prices which theoretically raised the profits for farmers. My point being, YOUR reason the crops were “rotting in the fields while people in the cities starved” isn’t even close as to WHY they were rotting in the fields. But don’t let the facts interfere with your silly nonsense. Incidentally, did you know the Agricultural Adjustment Act was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court? Interesting, don’t you think? Why was it necessary to artificially inflate prices?

9. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

   63   12:40pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Why was it necessary to artificially inflate prices? Wy do you insist on changing the subject. You made a completely false statement as to WHY the crops were rotting in the fields. Why don't you defend your statement? LOL

10. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    64   12:43pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says iwog says Why was it necessary to artificially inflate prices? Wy do you insist on changing the subject. You made a completely false statement as to WHY the crops were rotting in the fields. Why don’t you defend your statement? LOL I'm not changing the subject. I'm trying to teach you something. Why was it necessary to artificially inflate prices?

11. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    65   12:44pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Read my post Duckie Dude, I already stated the why. And thanks for the offer to "teach" me "something," but based on your past performances, I'll skip that class. LOL!

12. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    66   12:46pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   RayAmerica says Read my post Duckie Dude, I already stated the why. And thanks for the offer to “teach” me “something,” but based on your past performances, I’ll skip that class. LOL! No, I don't think you stated why. You said to increase profit but you never explained why that was necessary. Well?

13. GaryA Follow Befriend 14 threads 147 comments Reno, NV

    67   3:26pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   The socialist bashers who defend the corporations are Tea Party John Birchers. Koch was a John Birch founder and he is the biggest Tea Party supporter. So, you guys who yell about socialism, and make social security a part of it, can take a long walk off a short pier. Or you can wise up and realize you have been had by one of the more radical political groups in the history of the United States.

14. Ptipking222 Follow Befriend 11 threads 144 comments Ptipking222's website

    68   10:57pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Troy says Honest Abe says Government interventionism ultimately leads to socialism. Socialism leads to tyranny. What about Norway? Most socialized economy I’m aware of, per-capita GDP tops for an actual non tax-haven nation: 1 Liechtenstein $122,100 2 Qatar $119,500 3 Luxembourg $79,600 4 Bermuda $69,900 5 Norway $57,400 6 Jersey $57,000 7 Kuwait $52,800 8 Singapore $52,200 9 Brunei $51,200 10 Faroe Islands $48,200 11 United States $46,000 How does this fact not penetrate your ideological defense barriers? Why do you avoid it? Are the Norwegians not free? Does their socialized systems work well for them? Are they not happy? Norway is a homogenous, small, oil-rich nation with hardly any crime or military expense. Hardly a comparison to the US.

15. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 272 threads 12,462 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    69   11:01pm Wed 15 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Protected   Ptipking222 says Norway is a homogenous, small, oil-rich nation with hardly any crime or military expense. Hardly a comparison to the US. So does that mean that socialism works sometimes?

16. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    70   6:53am Thu 16 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Ptipking222 says Norway is a homogenous, small, oil-rich nation with hardly any crime or military expense. Hardly a comparison to the US. So does that mean that socialism works sometimes? Norway isn't Socialist. They have a three-branch parliamentary government, just like the US. People don't seem to understand what Socialism is, especially the ones that accuse everyone of being Socialist. Socialism is complete government ownership of business. Haven't the wingnuts ever heard of these companies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_companies_of_Norway What is does prove is that somewhere between abject, free-market anarchy and complete government control lies effective government.

17. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

    71   8:58am Thu 16 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Nomograph says Norway isn’t Socialist. They have a three-branch parliamentary government, just like the US. Socialism is an economic system and the government power structure is orthogonal to that. Socialism is the public/government "owning" and operating capital and Norway's socialism has historically extended across a broad swath of the economy, from Statoil (hello???) to the government-run banking and telecom (Telenor is still majority-owned by the state AFAIK) companies, to the oil-funded pension plans, to hydroelectric development and aluminum production (Norsk Hydro is 40+% owned by the state).

18. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

    72   9:01am Thu 16 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Ptipking222 says Norway is a homogenous, small, oil-rich nation with hardly any crime or military expense. Hardly a comparison to the US. We were once an oil-rich nation with hardly any crime or military expense. We took a different course, and it fucked us up but good. The homogeneity of Norway and the other Scandinavian examples of state Socialism is an important point but if that's why socialism can't work here then it's a pretty damning indictment of the American experiment and our humanity. Maybe it's our size? 5M people may be the limit as to how large an effective government can become.

19. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,062 comments

    73   5:44pm Thu 16 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   The US has always had a steady influx of immigrants, making it heterogeneous, not just ethnically but also socioeconomically. So we adapted to having a poor working class, and basically incorporated that in to our economic model. At this point it has been that way for so long that many consider it an axiom that without a huge undereducated underclass our economy won't function. I believe that this is far from correct, as evidenced by the Norway example. It makes sense to me that transitioning to a different model would be challenging and painful but the idea that ethnic diversity is an obstacle is absurd.

20. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    74   4:19pm Fri 17 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Troy says Nomograph says Norway isn’t Socialist. They have a three-branch parliamentary government, just like the US. Socialism is an economic system and the government power structure is orthogonal to that. I understand that, I just didn't spell it out. My point was that Socialism and Communism rapidly fall apart under parliamentary governments; historically it requires unelected dictators running the show (Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Mao, Kim Jong Il, etc.). That's why I'm not really afraid of TEH SOCIALISM.

21. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,094 comments

    75   4:32pm Fri 17 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   good point ... but, not being afraid of something because it is very unlikely doesn't make it less dangerous. I could see Barry, and those who think like Pelosi and B.Frank, having the balls (sic) to try to remove term limits for Prez. All it takes is "a good crisis". Right? Then we be having some of those unelected dic-taters too. lol it could happen

22. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    76   5:01pm Fri 17 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Bap33 says I could see Barry, and those who think like Pelosi and B.Frank, having the balls (sic) to try to remove term limits for Prez. All it takes is “a good crisis”. Right? Not from where I stand. I think that would be a non-starter. The left said the same think about Bush declaring himself dictator. BTW, your post are very thoughtful and content-rich these days. It's like a whole different Bap33!

23. Kevin Follow Befriend 40 threads 2,652 comments

    77   8:52pm Fri 17 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bap33 says good point … but, not being afraid of something because it is very unlikely doesn’t make it less dangerous. I could see Barry, and those who think like Pelosi and B.Frank, having the balls (sic) to try to remove term limits for Prez. All it takes is “a good crisis”. Right? Then we be having some of those unelected dic-taters too. lol it could happen While were at it, everyone be very afraid of a meteor crashing into earth and destroying everthing. There's actually a real chance of that happening in 2015, unlike the bizarre socialist hysteria.

24. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,094 comments

    78   8:55pm Fri 17 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   good point I'm kinda seeing the Mayan 12/21/12 thing looking like a good time to end this poop.

25. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,094 comments

    79   8:58pm Fri 17 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   @Nomo, Could be you trust me to be respectful, and vice versa (?). lol Could be some of the newer conservos are better adversaries for you? lol Dude ... we could sit and sip coffee and talk about houses any time. Or other stuff.

26. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    80   6:54am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Bap33 says Dude … we could sit and sip coffee and talk about houses any time. Or other stuff. You and I have had some pretty fierce knock-down drag-outs over the years, but the truth is I think you are one of the most clever and insightful people on this forum. I enjoy reading your posts, and I respect your opinion a great deal. I'm usually only a ass to people I think are worthy intellectual adversaries. I love you, man.

27. RayAmerica Follow Befriend (9) 120 threads 2,591 comments Burbank, CA

    81   7:20am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike (1)   Important announcement: Bap & Nomo have won the 1st. Annual Rodney King "Why can't we ... why can't we ... all ... just .... get along?" Award. I'm going to have to sign off for now. I'm afraid tears are going to short circuit my keyboard.

28. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,977 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    82   11:19am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Nomograph says Bap33 says Dude … we could sit and sip coffee and talk about houses any time. Or other stuff. You and I have had some pretty fierce knock-down drag-outs over the years, but the truth is I think you are one of the most clever and insightful people on this forum. I enjoy reading your posts, and I respect your opinion a great deal. I’m usually only a ass to people I think are worthy intellectual adversaries. I love you, man. How sweet, you two. But, having read rayray's post, you coulda done it a lot sooner. :)

29. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,977 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    83   11:20am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Nomograph says I’m usually only a ass to people I think are worthy intellectual adversaries. Ouch.

30. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,062 comments

    84   11:25am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Logic: A ---> B does not imply ~A--->~B, but it does imply contrapositive ~B--->~A That is you can only conclude that if you are not intellectually worthy, he would not be an ass. But Nomo, you know how Ellie feels about you. Maybe you need to be get a little rude with her.

31. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    85   11:51am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   marcus says Maybe you need to be get a little rude with her. OK, here goes: elliemae says How sweet, you two. I'm actually just trying to get down Bap's pants. Jealous much?

32. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,977 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    86   11:52am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Or he could just talk dirty. :) He said he's an ass to worthy intellectual adversaries... It appears to me that I meet 2/3 of his criteria. Since I'm not an adversary for the most part, I know in my heart that he likes me (blush). But I've sneezed a lot of liquids from his snarky comments that came out of left field.

33. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,977 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    87   11:53am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Nomograph says I’m actually just trying to get down Bap’s pants. Jealous much? No, I'm over it. But it was touch & go for a second there.

34. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    88   11:57am Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   elliemae says touch & go That's my specialty. Hit it and quit it, don't babysit it.

35. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,977 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    89   12:06pm Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   elliemae says Or he could just talk dirty. Nomograph says That’s my specialty. Hit it and quit it, don’t babysit it. Thanks. I'm gonna need a shower, tho. :)

36. Bap33 Follow Befriend (3) 12 threads 3,094 comments

    90   12:07pm Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   get down my pants ..... an interesting undertaking. Caution: I'm commando at all times. Except for when I'm wearing my wedding/funeral/Christmas dockers - my wife demands that I wear chones under those. I respect anyone who can defend their position sans personal attacks. That's why Clarence13 is such a dueche bag.

37. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,977 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    91   5:45pm Sat 18 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I like you both, especially when you talk dirty this way. Bap33 says Caution: I’m commando at all times. I once worked with a woman who refuses to go naked at all. Not to bed (she lives alone) and certainly not after she gets out of the shower, she grabs a towel. Ugh.

38. Nomograph Follow Befriend (1) 104 threads 2,851 comments

    92   5:46am Sun 19 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   elliemae says refuses to go naked at all. She is a Nevernude. It's not as uncommon as you might think: I should know; I've spent many years as an Analyst / Therapist, or AnalRapist for short.

39. elliemae Follow Befriend (25) 413 threads 6,977 comments Saint George, UT elliemae's website

    93   11:06am Sun 19 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I shoulda guessed that you were a fan of Analrapists. They be's more hily edumakated than me. What am I a fan of, you ask? "I’m a janitor- um, I’m a full-on rapist. Y’know? Um, Africans, dyslexics, children, that sort of thing...I help people, you know what I mean? I’m a philan- philan- philan-...It gets blocked in my mouth, I don’t say it no good." - Charlie

40. thomas.wong1986 Follow Befriend 16 threads 4,426 comments

    94   11:19am Sun 19 Sep 2010   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says The problem in this country is that it’s not the owners of a new business or idea that are getting rich. Often a CEO is some idiot aristocrat who spends his days having high level meetings at the golf club. HE is getting rich. The people who actually own the company and the workers who create the wealth get screwed. This is true, unlike early founders of business in SV many business are run by fast trackers looking to make the next leap.

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