WatchI have a good friend who is totally over her head on her home. She is totally over values owning a home. In fact, it is a criteria for the man she wants to date - "must own his own home". She has about 2 months in emergency savings. She has no equity in her home. I suspect she is pretty far underwater, but she seems to have insulated herself from this reality. She has no retirement savings and a huge student loan. Her Honda has 200K miles on it. To her credit, she has closed all her credit cards. I think she is very close to paying those off. Did I mention that she is 42 yrs old and has no health insurance?
I don't think there is anything I can say that might gently help her appreciate her situation. She is hoping to refinance to get a better "monthly payment". I don't really see a lower payment as "better". She has been talking to a "friend who is a realtor" who has been inflating the stated value of her home.
It breaks my heart to see the mess she is in. She wouldn't consider walking away from her home as this might prevent her from buying another one. She is stuck on this. I think she should rent and start piling money into retirement. Screw this home ownership myth that has her hypnotized. I think the best thing she has gonig is that she is very, very beautiful. I am sad to say that marrying someone who is less lost may be her best way out. THat is a very value inconsistent for me to say. The big problem with that is that I fear she wouldn't recognize someone in good financial shape if they slapped her in the face with their savings portfolio. Of course, I want her to see her situation differently and start taking aggressive steps to change the pickle she is in. She seems to be so far in denial that she is unlikely to make any changes. I am feeling very sad for her and pretty helpless to get her to see her situation from a different perspective.
FWIW, she isn't looking for someone to rescue her. She doesn't seem to see that she is in trouble.
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Knightsen, CA
Lectrician's website
The lust for real estate has been hard-wired into our value system. This is not surprising since throughout most of lives, acquiring real estate countered inflation and increased in value. I'm sure each of us on this forum, myself included, find themselves struggling internally with those"hard-wired" concepts and today's reality. Wait 6-8 years, markets will begin to recover.
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Monterey, CA
PW - there are a lot of people in her position.
If you can't operate within a budget, good luck.... either that, or you have to much $$ than you know what to do with.
Today, if you can pay cash for a car, people are shocked.
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Baltimore, MD
Post pics of her so we can better asses the situation.
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Monterey, CA
Mr.Fantastic says
That about sums it up.
I'm consistently amazed at the debt level of some of the people. Strapped families with 2 car payments (because they think they need them), crazy mortgage, high end everything (yes, even the washed and dryer) super deluxe cable package, fiber internet, high end cell phone, mac everything, new clothes every week.. etc...
Even people I know who are broke, are always out shopping.
Most of these people end up becoming slaves to material possessions.
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Alexandria, VA
Looks like she just doesn't get it. Sorry to hear that though, you just can't do anything about two type of people, the idiots and the eggheads.
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"She"
She walks by moonlight
No one really knows
Enchanted starlight
Never goin' home
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joshuatrio says
Depends on the car you buy. A new one, sure. I paid $700 cash for the last car I bought - 18 months of driving and I've only had to buy a battery and change the oil. When it kicks the bucket I'll find another granny-only-drove-it-on-Sundays special. Unfortunately, Cash for Clunkers probably ruined my next favorite vehicle - and for what purpose?
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Monterey, CA
EightBall says
I'd say any car over $5-6k is typically financed (not a fact, just an opinion). My last supervisor had to finance a $6,500 Taurus.
My current ride ran me around $1200 + $126.00 in dmv fees. I'm in the same camp as you - when it dies, pick up another beater. I've already got my eye on a 240DL. The other Honda I bought was $8k which was paid up front as well.
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Bellingham, WA
EightBall says
In 2009, the U.S. imported over $253 billion in petroleum-related products, two-thirds of the total 2009 trade deficit of $380.7 billion.
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Murrieta, CA
she is not alone
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What I told someone dear to me when she was going through the same mental anguish... "it's just money... let it go and move on with your life. I've been in business for a long time, I've made plenty of poor investments in my time and some good once. No point to stress over it, just let it go and move on to the next thing."
That worked for me, but she was also ready to move on as well. In reality there isn't a thing you can say that will make her change her mind. She'll change her mind once she is ready to move on. Until than just be sympathetic to her plight which arose from her poor decision(s). At some point she'll let it go, she won't be able to hold on to it much longer I'd assume anyway.
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South Pasadena, CA
Loads of us can't afford health insurance or don't have much savings, be gentle with her...
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Mr.Fantastic says
I make my wife switch the channel every time that show comes up. It's like a bible on how to make poor financial decisions.
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Mr.Fantastic says
sometimes its fun to compare the episodes done in different times. Before the bubble, during the bubble, and post bubble.
I can certainly see the humor there. The premise is that there is a random clueless couple that needs their hand held every step of the way... and this selfless and completely professional real estate agent (who is not thinking of the profit) rides in to the rescue of these poor souls to help them find the place they like by showing them exactly 3 places allowing them to pick the one they dislike the least.
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Ptipking222's website
There's millions of people like your friend.
If they don't have a clue by age 40, they'll never have a clue. It's better to just let them live in their dream world since they'll be more happy that way. Trying to shake them out of their dream world will cause cognitive dissonance, which is more unpleasant than any upside from changing their ways.
Plus it's not like she's THAT bad...hey, at least she has some emergency savings and not 40k in credit card debt.
It's kinda like someone who is super religious and thinks Jesus affects every minor thing in their life. It's dumb, but it makes them happy, so who cares as long as it doesn't affect you.
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Oakland, CA
you should encourage her to hold onto her house.
From the way it sounds it's pretty much all she's got.
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Wholly crap! At least she has a house.
She's paying down her debt, Good for her. I hope she's learned cash is king.
No health insurance. Have you done the math?
It's freaking cheaper to be sick, uninsured and paying out of pocket, than it is to be healthy and insured.
Where have you been?
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no
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Hope she doesn't dump her debt on the taxpayer (via the banks), but I daresay she will eventually.
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Lectrician says
so, she wouldn't consider Mark Zuckerberg, eh? his loss...
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Mr.Fantastic says
I swear I have observed that phenomena before on that show.
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she must be chinese
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Murrieta, CA
is there one man on this site that actually 100percent owns there own home? anyone here holding the note for your own home?
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Pasadena, CA
Katy Perry says
I hold the note on a few of my paid in full homes here in L.A. County, although on the official paperwork it's titled "Substitution of Trustee and Full Reconveyance" and was mailed to me by the County of Los Angeles after recording. After the final payoff, the mortgage company in Santa Rosa, Sonoma County has it notorized there and then they send it to L.A. County for recording at the Recorders Office.
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Monterey, CA
Katy Perry says
Probably not many on this site - but I'm certain there are plenty with enough cash in the bank to do so.
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PW. SOUNDS LIKENYOURN JEALOUS OF HER CAUSE SHE IS HOT AND YOUR NOT
POST PICTS OF HER
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Murrieta, CA
just always miffed by the confusion in terms. "Home owner" or "I own my home." is often used incorrectly in the circles I run in. It's one of the major issue with many people actually understanding their situation correctly IMO. The Bank thinks they own something also by the way.
I like to believe you don't own your home until it's paid off. I must sound like an ass to many but this needs to be taught in schools!,... not the banker friendly debt slave fantasy BS.
Rent to own is not owning. it's just a way to convince one to take on a shitload of liability IMO.
This 30 year loan BS is a scam. I like to think about how much a home would cost if we lived without the funny money. i know complete fantasy land.
California dream'n
AHHHHHHHH!
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Katy Perry says
Thanks for asking. Almost paid for. I am ready to pay my home off. But, we realized that would make FICO go down because the only active debt on our file would be one credit card. We have no car payments and would have no mortgage. So, we have decided to get one more credit card, replace husband's vehicle and THEN make the payoff. We're going used truck shopping tomorrow.
Also, my sister's home is paid for, and one brother's home. Midwesterners. Baby boomers. Hmm. buy a home, don't heloc it to death, stay in it for many years. PAY for it.
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Murrieta, CA
Payoff2011 says
HA HA Awsome! I guess I should have said CA. or at least the west coast Ha ha Yeah in Cali with a home paid for. only my Grandmother for me.
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Oh, almost forgot. Husband's brother's home is paid for. So a couple of years ago they bought a small rental house.
But you are right, most people have mortgages. It's just that I never looked at a home as a place to get money from. I looked at is as something that cost me money. So, I couldn't understand people wanting to borrow more and increase their payment. My goal was always to eliminate that payment. Almost there, except for all the other expenses in owning. Houses eat money.
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Murrieta, CA
Payoff2011 says
I like your style Payoff2011 And you should be held up as an example.
my boomer parents have 10 years left on theirs. no savings i think? dependent on state and federal pensions nobody they know really holds A "note" not even sure if it's done that way now.
seems everyone here in So Cal played the HELOC game to buy the F$ck#ng granite counter tops and glass shower doors and the mini tile. and the hot tub, oh and the stainless what ever the hell you can have in stainless you bleeping keep up with the Jones sheople. AHHHHHHH!
I need a beer.
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I paid 12k cash (after taxes and everything) for 06 ford after only working one year out of college at 23. My girlfriend bought an 09 Nissan last year, again after working only one year out of college. It's really not difficult to save enough money to buy a car. But it seems Americans are in a culture now where it's just spend spend spend even if you don't have anything to spend.
joshuatrio says
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Payoff2011 says
A lot of people got suckered into stupid financial decisions. I remember when realtors ran around trying to convince people that it was an "investment in their future". Total bullshit, but I guess it worked on quite a large scale.
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ChrisLA says
i still hear this from a lot of people. especially in higher priced neighborhoods. and sometimes it is true, some houses are good investments today although most are not.
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pw says
If that's the case, why don't you mind your own business? You seem to be the one with the problem, not her.
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Syphilis says
Not gonna hear from home owners in San Diego... 1989-1996... painful declines despite the good weather and nice neighborhoods.
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ChrisLA says
That is very sweet and very insightful. I have tried to be super sympathetic. I pay for dinner when we go out. I listen when she is distressed. I explain my approach to my finances, but never preach about hers.
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PasadenaNative says
I will be gentle. That is very good advice!
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Ptipking222 says
I fear you are right about the light never coming on. I think she is certainly happier seeing it the way she sees it rather than the way I see it. I am alarmed.
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toothfairy says
I have thought about this. THe thing is that her monthly payment is way more than renting in that area. I keep thinking about if she took the difference and applied it to her loans or retirement. Her concern is that if she walked away, she would be hard pressed to get another home. I am not sure that having walked away will be so rare in the future.