Patrick.net

Proving the Teabaggers are full of crap in a single graph

By iwog   Follow   Tue, 1 Mar 2011, 7:55am   13,302 views   239 comments
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Total US Tax Revenue as a Percentage of GDP

Graph source: http://www.deptofnumbers.com/blog/2010/08/tax-revenue-as-a-fraction-of-gdp/
Data source: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/past_years.html

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1. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

   120   4:40pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   duxbury001 says http://seoblackhat.com/2008/12/09/4th-illinois-governor-in-35-years-headed-to-prison/ with blago… 4 out of 5. an illinios republican is a de facto democrat. illinois, like new york, detroit, cali… is just a progressive gangster state. Government spending is just a criminal enterprise that cannot be contained and voters want their free lunch. Our only hope is the tea party against the big spending corrupt politicians. Politicians get payola back on every dollar of gov’t spending and handouts are a narcotic. The intellectuals are psychotic and self-destructive. We are finished and breakfast for China barring a tea party revolution. OK.. Here are the last 5 governors of Illinois: Pat Quinn---currently in office. Rod Blagojevich--convicted on 1 count, not currently in jail George Ryan-- currently in jail Jim Edgar-- Never on trial "Big" Jim Thompson-- Never on trial. Not sure how you get 4 of 5. Even if you don't include Quinn, you've still got Edgar and Thompson...

2. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

   121   4:45pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   socal2 says Dude - did you see the GAO report I linked? The fraud and incompetence in government run Medicare is 4 times higher than the top 10 biggest insurance company’s profits alone Dude, it looks an awful lot like you're intentionally cooking up some numbers to make it sound worse than it is. Funny how you chose to compare to a small slice of total health care spending - insurance company profits are just 3% of private health insurance costs. BTW, the fraud is just as rampant with private insurers, and exceeds the profits of the insurers. Still, it is bad. Thankfully the Obama Justice Department has made this a priority. A health-care crime sweep Thursday netted 114 defendants on charges related to Medicare fraud, in what Attorney General Eric Holder called the largest such takedown in U.S. history. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704657704576150293189313156.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird

3. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

   122   6:18pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Vicente says Seems a lot of “low comment” number posters popping up these days, delivering broadsides of Fox News talking points. Yes, and one of them the other day was accusing me (and also Patrick) of being on the payroll of some, I don't know, liberal cabal. Hmmmm. I think the exact accusation was that I was being payed to shoot down fine logical objective "conservative" opinions of RayAmerica.

4. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

   123   7:11pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   I would like to complement Iwog on this interesting and provocative post, and especially the second graph. I gained some new insights from that graph about what's really going on. Specifically regarding the way our government is funded increasingly by social security (which is not put in a "lock box") and the unbelievable degree to which SS is being used to pay for tax breaks for the rich and corporations. W.C. Varones says How sad. Iwog’s a run-of-the-mill leftist. Where’s the spending line? How convenient that you leave that out. The Tea Party is about spending and deficits, not taxes. And even if you took taxes back to all-time highs as % of GDP, it’s not close to covering today’s spending levels. We are running serial deficits of 10% of GDP to keep this Ponzi economy going, and Iwog would rather make a dishonest partisan point than have a serious discussion. Liberals, who are now the true conservatives, don't deny the need to cut spending. But the degree to which wealth is concentrated at the top, and the questions of how we should tax is an equally serious question. You think we should continue spending with borrowed money until we can bring spending down. I say we raise taxes too, and that when we are out of recession we should always pay for our spending with taxes. The decision makers (and those who control them) make the big bucks, and pay the high taxes. They would have to make the tough choices. I guess that would be too much democracy. duxbury001 says the union thugs in wisconsin are shutting down the state because teachers are furious over making 100k, an annuity pension worth 1,000,000, part time job, full benefits… you can have sex with the students and probably won’t get fired (in NYC teachers do not get fired period)… and the state running a huge deficit while hemorrhaging jobs? I ask… in an environment so fanatically psychotic with braindead leftists… do you think it is possible to hold a reasonable debate over lowering transfers to the unproductive elderly? No, such reforms are impossible in a union thugocracy Ahh, good times. I say that I and other liberals or liberal libertarians around here are the new true conservative. The republicanss are far too influenced by extremist loons. I am not kidding. I consider myself a conservative. I would like to see the America I have known and loved, preserved. Yo, dimwitted republitards (like Duxbury); read everything this guy posts if you wish to better yourself. Troy says The people running Washington Mutual, Countrywide, Wachovia, and other private corps into the ground didn’t need to have a gun pointed at their heads to make their shitty loans, they were making tons of money doing so. Blaming it on “subprime” minority borrowers is just an attempt to obfuscate the total failure of government to police the mortgage industry, from top to bottom — appraisers, mortgage brokers, loan underwriters, ratings agencies, Wall Street financial engineers — the whole thing was entirely crimonogenic thanks to the ideologues and industry players the Republicans put in place to oversee the industry, 2001-2006. Minority borrowers didn’t double the asset value of real estate from $12T in 2000 to $24T at the peak in 2005: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/REABSHNO that was an economy-wide debt bubble prompted by the tax cuts, lower interest rates, liberalized lending to prime borrowers (no-down, negative-am, stated-income), and defacto deregulation. To blame it all on the poor people is quite comical actually. This was purely a failure of government. This was an amusing twist today. Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche says Looks like IWOG is doing a little ASTROTURFING here; i.e., a political group hired a PR firm to send writers to blog forums such as this one to dominate the comments section with anti-freedom, pro-communitarian propaganda. Then a few other writers (Tatapu, Marcus, etc.) from the same PR firm support these statements to create the appearance of a majority consensus. Patrick should be checking the IP addresses of these obviously pro-Fabian Socialist commentors here. He may find that there are a few IP domains owned by PR firms that conduct astroturfing. Guess what ? I'm a Math teacher in LA. The main thing I know about IWOG is that he's an attorney and a Real Estate investor (and that he is a smart guy). Tatapu, Kevin, Kent, Simcha, Vicente, Troy and many other regulars on here like to share their opinions. Some have a slightly more liberal bent than others, but they aren't trolls and it's obvious that the views they share are their own. Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche says For you people who are paid to be here who are reading this — what kind of world are you creating, for your own children to live in? You ever read about Karma and the after-life experience, the three Bardos documented in the Tibetan Bardo Thodol and such? This same exact information was documented by the Egyptians, as well. The weight of all of your actions stay with you even after you are gone and your awareness still remains. In the afterlife, you create your reality at will depending on your Karmic actions while you were alive. You will, in effect, be creating your own Hell in the afterlife, when that time arrives for you (old age). I would agree that if there are PR people espousing views that they don't even hold, for money, that is unethical and somewhat evil. But if you are an (intelligent) objective nonpartisan reader, you would never think that these long time regulars, with very coherent and liberal (to varying degrees) views are paid bullshitters. Not even close.

5. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

   124   8:21pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   shrekgrinch says I am not saying you don’t deserve an intelligent response….just that it appears highly unlikely you can understand one, at this rate. Well that will definitely be easier than trying to understand what I was saying. Right on target, as expected. shrekgrinch says First of all, I am not getting emotional. I don't know... shrekgrinch says It’s not my fault that you are sloppy as hell. Tell us, iwog. You this sloppy with how you communicated with your wife’s clients at the bankruptcy firm? ‘Cuz I wonder… That sounds more like emotion than intelligent discourse. shrekgrinch says Unfricking believable. The data speaks for itself yet you don’t get it. At all. Instead, you cling to this total fallacy that total tax revenue is tied directly to income tax rates — when your own graph proves that wrong [because your own graph is what Hauser observed originally]. I make the correlation that you believe said fantasy due to the other graph in your latest post you gave in your reply to me. You know, the one that shows the top 0.01% income earners? Are you that dense, iwog? Again, that was before, but again, far less interesting or compelling than Iwog's graphs. I am willing to hear a decent logical argument, and yes I really can comprehend one when I see it. shrekgrinch says Totally different subjects. Hey! The total number of abortions nationally per year isn’t high enough: Let’s make it mandatory that every woman should at least have one abortion, ok? think think the women impacted by that policy five a crap about ‘total national numbers’ of this or that? No. They only care about how it impacts them and how extreme. So people’s reactions to negative signals has nothing to do with total negative signals being only 13%-20% of all signals people received in a year, doesn’t it? So making some lambrained comparison between the two to create a false justification for some bogus, reality-impaired belief you want to push doesn’t jive either. That is my main issue with your posting. Okay, this was just weird. First time it occurred to me that you might be a serious pot smoker. Not kidding. But otherwise, again far more emotion than reason.

6. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

   125   8:30pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   By Shrek's reasoning, the reason why increasing income taxes on the 3rd, 4th, 5th (etc and >) hundred thousand in income can not add to total tax revenues is because we are taxing the first hundred K more than we ever have (in social security taxes (FICA)). See Iwog's second chart above - far more of Shrek's magical 19% is now social security taxes, and far less is income tax and corporate tax. According to him, the higher part of that 19% that comes from middle class tax payers in the form of Social security taxes, will mean that raising the income tax on the 3rd, 4th, 5th etc hundred K that rich make can not possibly increase tax revenues. Magical thinking. Oh, I almost forgot. It's because it's a law !

7. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,416 comments Davis, CA

   126   9:13pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   marcus says Yes, and one of them the other day was accusing me (and also Patrick) of being on the payroll of some, I don’t know, liberal cabal. Hmmmm. I think the exact accusation was that I was being payed to shoot down fine logical objective “conservative” opinions of RayAmerica. I should join me one of them "liberal cabals". Does it pay well? I could be down with the whole evil empire thing. I always like "mirror Spock" better, he had the cool goatee going, and he knew how to use an agonizer on underlings who didn't perform. Astonishing that the few minutes spent here and there on a forum over.... hmmm too many years can get that idea in someone's head. Guess this has turned into Cheers hasn't it. Shrek has adopted the role of Cliff Claven. Patrick is either Coach or Sam, I can't decide.

8. ska Follow Befriend 5 comments Cardiff By The Sea, CA ska's website

   127   9:23pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   I believe government spending is counted as part of GDP. So even if the government takes all your money, as long as they turn around and buy pencils for bureaucrats and new cars and such, the tax/GDP representation will not reflect the full effect. In fact wouldn't the graph be the same if 25% of the population were enslaved to the government by 100% taxation and the government comprised the remaining part of the economy, buying and selling w/o taxation? Not entirely sure on this, but its a reasonable hypothesis to explain the flat line on the graph in light of the massive role the govt is playing in the economy. Or perhaps its the deficit financing that's keeping it flat and the trillion the chinese haven't asked us to pay back yet.

9. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,416 comments Davis, CA

   128   9:45pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Y'all Teabaggers need to just chill the fark out. Have a Cheeto.

10. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    129   10:54pm Thu 3 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   FalconMaster says Iwog - you know this graph, and the headline which you gave to it are a bunch of total BS. I’m surprised that that guy named “Patrick” let you post such garbage. What a bunch of mindless, immature generalization and name calling. On second thought, I’m not surprised. Patrick is your ideological twin. I call it like I see it. I didn't target any specific individuals, in fact I think there are plenty of smart teabaggers who are just misguided and don't realize the damage they are doing. Are you really insulted that I called an organization a bunch of names? Really? FalconMaster says p.s. Iwog: the housing market has bottomed. haha…… How much underwater are you on your real estate investments Iwog? $0.00 I wish I had the means to buy more in 2009. Not kidding in the least.

11. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    130   1:11am Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   duxbury001 says The primary challenge confronting the West is thugocracy. I think people like you are much bigger challenge. People that called themselves Conservatives used to include honesty among their virtues. But now sadly a huge swath of them, clearly including you given your posts here, are completely comfortable with listening to and repeating lies.

12. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    131   1:25am Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   FalconMaster says The tea party movement is a diverse group who care about liberty.... Iwog died after being attacked by hundreds of tea party protestors after he verbally abused them and took part in a name calling attack campaign against them. Yeah, that speaks real well of the Tea Party that that you would even suggest such a thing. I have to admit I LOL'ed at the pictures though.

13. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    132   5:21am Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   shrekgrinch says Uh, yes it is. Just because you refuse to acknowledge reality as it truly is doesn’t change the fact that it is real. OK--rather than keep up the childish back and froth--how about you address my point? Everyone in the US doesn't pay the same tax rate. When the top rate gets lowered, other rates get raised to compensate. Do you see how this could lead to total tax revenues being the same even when the top rate is lowered? Thus, Iwog's graph most definitely does NOT prove Hauser's hypothesis.

14. duxbury001 Follow Befriend 44 comments

    133   7:12am Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Ahh, good times. I say that I and other liberals or liberal libertarians around here are the new true conservative. The republicanss are far too influenced by extremist loons. I am not kidding. I consider myself a conservative. I would like to see the America I have known and loved, preserved. Yo, dimwitted republitards (like Duxbury); read everything this guy posts if you wish to better yourself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Y'okay... america is not from the 1950's where we lead the world. Today we hold the honor of being the most corrupt western nation... more similar to southern italy (dominated by the mafioso). We are 21st in the world in corruption... like a piss ant african dictatorship. More corrupt states like illinois, cali, new york (thugocracies run by an alliance of trial lawyers / public sector unions) trump Egypt. You can't compare Denmark to the USA because we are a kleptocracy in comparison. So the whole country is embroiled in a labor racket / kickback scam where grossly overpaid public employees give money back to their union, who funnels it back to the democracts. That's the racket that's driving so many unionized states to bankruptcy. Then you've got the trial lawyers (#1 contributors to the dems)... basically a shakedown racket where lawyers get 30%++ of settled cases. Then they kick back to the dems like "giving back to pauly" in goodfellas.. where the dems pick judges that give the most to lawyers. The trial bar is so powerful the republicans don't even bother taking them on.... like entitlemants.. you can only do so much with a psychotic liberal elite / media and a narcisstic population on their somma of easy sex, entitlements, public school indocrination.. they don't even realize that the government just saddled them with $15 trillion in debt (stolen from future generations) and don't even care.

15. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    134   7:27am Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   duxbury001 says So the whole country is embroiled in a labor racket / kickback scam where grossly overpaid public employees give money back to their union, who funnels it back to the democracts. That’s the racket that’s driving so many unionized states to bankruptcy Keen insights. We need to get to where workers are totally unrepresented by politicians. Even though corporations are now "citizens" who can totally rig any election with their vast resources that dwarf any union, you say that the workers need less political representation. MAybe you're right. Let's give the corporatocracy complete 100% control. Because after all none of the corruption you speak of comes from there. You say total outright fascism is the only answer, and you support that with extreme trollish exaggeration. Hard to argue with that.

16. Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq Follow Befriend 53 threads 658 comments

    135   10:58am Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Vicente says Who’s the Tea Party idol? The sort of clown who thinks it’s perfectly reasonable to espouse voting rights be restricted to property owners only. I'm fairly certain I went to high school with that guy. Classroom conversations amongst my fellow students consisted of such great topics as: Best Way To Lynch A N---- Best Way To Truck Drag A N---- I'm Drunk, Let's Go Find A N---- and they loved the ever popular school sponsored event: Beat A N---- Day Our PE teachers and coaches were enthusiastic promotors as it was rumored one of the schools in our league had a black student. Never confirmed, though.

17. Done! Follow Befriend (4) 159 threads 2,826 comments

    136   12:52pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   You said they were full of crap, though your graph clearly never goes over 20%. 20% full of shit is pretty good. Obama has never been lower than 65% on the FOS scale. If you can proof "Full of Shit" on a scale, good enough to make an accurate chart. Then it would make politics obsolete.

18. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    137   2:11pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   marcus says Let’s give the corporatocracy complete 100% control. .... You say total outright fascism is the only answer, I can't believe I'm defending duxbury, but you're presenting a false choice. Corporations and public employee unions can and do both have inappropriate influence that goes against the interests of the public at large.

19. duxbury001 Follow Befriend 44 comments

    138   2:55pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Were do I start.... Stalin would smile at how america employs indoctrination to make socialists. You make him proud. >> If you want to blame US government housing policy for the housing bubble, you MUST explain how that also caused a bubble in commercial real estate, and a housing bubble in many other countries. All at exactly the same time. >>> The housing bubble is worse here other than countries like Ireland and the CRE bubble hasn't imploded consumers in the same way. Many other countries have similar braindead policies that encourage home ownership and thereby inflate housing prices. Other idiot I can’t believe I’m defending duxbury, but you’re presenting a false choice. Corporations and public employee unions can and do both have inappropriate influence that goes against the interests of the public at large. >>>> The reason we are a commerical republic, set forth by Ben Franklin, is that companies have competing interests. So safe to put power in the hands of individuals and private sector. Putting power in the hands of gov't and extortionist unions just turns a commercial republic into a gangster state dominated by crony companies (GE, goldman), unions, trial lawyers. "progressive" politics is just running interference to rationalize thugocracy. "liberal" politicians care amout millionaire gov't employees with absurd pensions and trial lawyers. The common citizen liberal is just what lenin called a "useful idiot"... supporting tyranny with his silly political fantasies about a benighted progressive elite.

20. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    139   3:30pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   duxbury001 says The reason we are a commerical republic, set forth by Ben Franklin, is that companies have competing interests. So safe to put power in the hands of individuals and private sector. Putting power in the hands of gov’t and extortionist unions just turns a commercial republic into a gangster state dominated by crony companies (GE, goldman), unions, trial lawyers. “progressive” politics is just running interference to rationalize thugocracy. “liberal” politicians care amout millionaire gov’t employees with absurd pensions and trial lawyers. The common citizen liberal is just what lenin called a “useful idiot”… supporting tyranny with his silly political fantasies about a benighted progressive elite. You've got it exactly wrong and backwards. Strong government intervention in corporate affairs combined with strong unions is what we had from 1946 until Reagan wrecked the country. It's considered the golden age of American prestige and power. Standard of living was the highest for the most Americans. Jobs were everywhere and our international trade was balanced. Americans during that period hated communists and wanted nothing to do with socialism. What we have now is a bunch of propagandists trying to convince everyone that everything that worked 50 years ago is socialism and bad, while everything that has occurred since Reagan (deregulation, tax cuts for the rich, union busting) is good. So how has that worked out for you? Savings and Loans failed. California's power utilities were held hostage and forced to have blackouts by a rogue criminal company called Enron. (right after deregulation) Wages have dropped for working people and WalMart employees need public assistance just to eat. A Nasdaq bubble made people rich then wiped out retirees. A housing bubble made people rich then wiped out retirees. Banks loaned money to people without jobs because the unregulated free market let Wall Street steal money. So liberals are useful idiots? Abraham Lincoln was a liberal. Herbert Hoover was a conservative. FDR was a liberal. Richard Nixon was a conservative. The federal budget got balanced by a liberal. The federal budget got destroyed by a conservative. Everything you write might sound good to an alien unfamiliar with American history, but to anyone who has actually WATCHED what really happens to the world, to anyone who actually CARES about what the facts are, your political ideology is an unqualified failure. Socialism my ass. Travel to Germany and find out how successful "socialism" (not real socialism just your fantasy of it) can be. They put our government and our economy to shame.

21. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    140   3:35pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   duxbury001 says The reason we are a commerical republic, set forth by Ben Franklin, is that companies have competing interests. So safe to put power in the hands of individuals and private sector. Have you ever seen a corporation put an 8 year old child in a coal mine? Probably not. Let me remind you what "Safe to put power in the hands of the private sector" REALLY MEANS. This picture is your world. I suggest you copy it, frame it, and write "Perfect society" in the caption. It's from Pennsylvania in the 19th century.

22. duxbury001 Follow Befriend 44 comments

    141   3:50pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   I know how much you like your liberal fantasies... but kids really aren't in coal mines anymore. The issue isn't "kids in coal mines"... the issue is should teachers cost $100/hour and never be fired even if they sleep with students or should they be paid $25/hour. Lots of states and countries don't have unions (japan and nazi germany). what both countries have in common is that their economic growth was so strong that they imploded (nazi's starting wwII because they rightfully viewed western powers as idiotic with crippled economies and japan had such growth it created a property bubble). So if we abolished unions we would have huge prosperity because a large criminal element in society would be eliminated. Strong government intervention in corporate affairs combined with strong unions is what we had from 1946 until Reagan wrecked the country. It’s considered the golden age of American prestige and power. >>>> yea well half the world's industrial capacity was destroyed in WWII. Also, unions weren't strong enough to obliterate industries for fun as they do now. Factories shut down all over the place because unions will not budge on extortionist wages. GM lawnmowers were getting $70/hour. Unions hadn't yet destroyed the steel industries and the airlines. Janitors in NY get 100k+pension+ they can sleep and watch porn all day and will never get fired. We just have differing views of thugocracy. You support a series of extortion rackets and schemes with a progressive veneer. I think it is bankrupting the country. you sound like a victim of brainwashing. sorry.

23. duxbury001 Follow Befriend 44 comments

    142   3:56pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   Funny you mention Germany... go Angela!!! They are confronting thugocracy and multiculturalism... imagine that? They are cutting the budgets and not letting people pour into the country who hate it. What Bastards!! Don't they know the modern West is about sanctimonious suicidal behavior! How dare they care about being responsible. Thankfully people like you can encourage them into reckless and self-destructive behavior. >>> ssistance just to eat. A Nasdaq bubble made people rich then wiped out retirees. A housing bubble made people rich then wiped out retirees. Banks loaned money to people without jobs because the unregulated free market let Wall Street steal money. >>>> The repeated bubbles are caused by easy money policies by the Fed. The fed has been giving money away for 20 some odd years at reduced rates and it creates asset bubbles. Plus deficit spending. Thanks gov't.

24. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    143   4:04pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   duxbury001 says I know how much you like your liberal fantasies… but kids really aren’t in coal mines anymore. Because people like yourself haven't completely won yet. We're headed in that direction. The fact is that there is a historical example to disprove every assertion you make. Every wonder why you don't have the same luxury? Do you ever wonder why you can't simply reach into a history book and show that a liberal pro-union policy will make American a miserable place to live? duxbury001 says yea well half the world’s industrial capacity was destroyed in WWII. Also, unions weren’t strong enough to obliterate industries for fun as they do now. Anyone on the fence about you can simply read the above paragraph. So unions obliterate industries for fun now eh? They didn't have the power in 1950? Who knew unions were so strong in 2011! Must be yet another conspiracy to convince people that unions are weaker now than ever before. Damn liberal media........ duxbury001 says Factories shut down all over the place because unions will not budge on extortionist wages. Oh is that why? Decimating our trade barriers from 1981 onward had nothing to do with it? Funny how GM did just fine with extortionist wages for decades until the tariff on a car fell from 25% to 2.5%. Once again history is an excellent source to prove how insane your assertions are.

25. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    144   4:08pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   duxbury001 says The repeated bubbles are caused by easy money policies by the Fed. The fed has been giving money away for 20 some odd years at reduced rates and it creates asset bubbles. Plus deficit spending. Thanks gov’t. Bullshit. Repeated bubbles are symptom of a large wealth disparity. That's why bubbles happened prior to 1930, that's why bubbles STOPPED HAPPENING from 1946 until the mid 1970s, and that's why bubbles RESUMED HAPPENING once taxes were removed from the aristocracy and they had enough spare cash to start gambling again. Once again I can easily pick a historical context. Your posts are utterly devoid of historical context. It's obvious why. And you call ME brainwashed. ROFLOL

26. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    145   4:12pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   duxbury001 says I know how much you like your liberal fantasies… but kids really aren’t in coal mines anymore. You ran away from this issue. Any reason why? 1890 was your ideal world. Government interference was non-existent and taxes were extremely low. Yet life was utterly horrible for working people and robber barons literally slashed and burned entire markets to increase their bottom line. Union organizers were actually murdered with no one ever going to prison for it. Why don't you be honest and just tell people you want to go back?

27. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

    146   4:45pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   iwog says Funny how GM did just fine with extortionist wages for decades until the tariff on a car fell from 25% to 2.5% "Extortionist" wages is anything over China's $1.25/hr that Honda factory workers are making apparently. heh, the idiot is even laying his position out plainly: duxbury001 says nd keep an economy going shackled with mind numbing regulation from powermad politicians and superior foreign competition (by countries like China that focus on competitiveness while we care more about class envy, stupid regs, transfer payments, bloated unions) duxbury is just your typical maximal freedom glibertarian cheap-labor conservative. The internet is packed with them, you can hardly go anywhere anymore without them and their stupid arguments monopolizing the discussion.

28. tatupu70 Follow Befriend (3) 15 threads 5,652 comments

    147   5:00pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Troy says The internet is packed with them, you can hardly go anywhere anymore without them and their stupid arguments monopolizing the discussion. Exhibit A: Kanda Bongo Man says Funny that Troy, from Bellingham WA, is such a devout Marxist. You realize, Mr. Troy, that if you shared your Marxist fantasies with your neighbors in Bellingham, you’d end up with a shotgun sticking straight up your ass? Better stick to Seattle if you want a place that’s safe for your anti-freedom views. If you’re feeling like you don’t have any room to share your Marxist bullshit online, that’s good. It’s about time something good began happening in the world, for a change.

29. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

    148   5:11pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Marxist, moi? Is this guy for real? Then again, the name might give away the game. Part of the problem with trying to actually engage with internet glibertarians is that they just make no sense. Honest Abe and the rest, all just jingo-slinging morons with authoritarian streaks a mile wide. They couch their "freedom" jive in economics terms, but with the wealth divide the way it is now, there'd be precious little freedom for anyone should libertopia start breaking out here. http://sethf.com/essays/major/libstupid.php

30. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    149   5:29pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   Troy says duxbury is just your typical maximal freedom glibertarian cheap-labor conservative. Ray or Ray's clone. duxbury001 says I know how much you like your liberal fantasies… but kids really aren’t in coal mines anymore. The issue isn’t “kids in coal mines”… the issue is should teachers cost $100/hour and never be fired even if they sleep with students or should they be paid $25/hour. duxbury001 says Unions hadn’t yet destroyed the steel industries and the airlines. Janitors in NY get 100k+pension+ they can sleep and watch porn all day and will never get fired. Hyperbolic trolling if I've ever heard it. Sure unions go too far sometimes, and then the pendulum swings back. There are hardly any unions left now, and the big ones that are still there are nearly impotent. But criminal ? wtf is this loon talking about. Teachers sleeping with students gets them prison. But yes the rumor of it might be hard to get fired for. Then again it's nice to know that some seriously dysfunctional child can't get you fired just for an accusation. Hey, that protection is nice considering I might even have to fail some students. If teachers make 100K/per hour it's pretty amazing that they haven't been able to fill all the teaching jobs, until recently. You want teachers to be pad $25/hr. Okay, right. As it is, most quit before they get to 5 years, because they can't handle it, and they aren't doing well. I don't have to tell everyone that this troll has absolutely no idea what is involved in teaching.

31. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    150   5:43pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   duxbury001 says The housing bubble is worse here other than countries like Ireland and the CRE bubble hasn’t imploded consumers in the same way. Many other countries have similar braindead policies that encourage home ownership and thereby inflate housing prices. Other idiot Did you even look at the chart? The bubbles happened at exactly the same time! And it's not even true that these other countries had policies promoting home ownership. You just made that up! Not surprising given all the other stuff you've simply made up.

32. ¥ Follow Befriend 35 threads 5,700 comments Bellingham, WA

    151   6:08pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   MarkInSF says countries had policies promoting home ownership the bubble had nothing to do with "policies promoting home ownership" and everything to do with ideologues and industry insiders in government working to make the housing market "free" of government policing and enforcement and/or tightening up of regulations, 2002-2005: "In the summer of 2003, leaders of the four federal agencies that oversee the banking industry gathered to highlight the Bush administration's commitment to reducing regulation." http://dorkmonger.blogspot.com/2008/11/cutting-red-tape.html In late 2009 California finally banned negative-amortization and loans with greater than 2% prepayment penalties, both of which were abused as "affordability" mechanisms that only served to temporarily increase a borrower's buying power, either with very low "pay option" or "teaser" rates that reset in 2 or 5 years. The housing bubble utterly destroyed the myths that "free enterprise" when left to its own devices is anything but a vast collection of crimogenic forces. Same shit happened with the S&L crisis, but we as a nation apparently have the memory of gnats.

33. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    152   6:36pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   FalconMaster says I was thinking that Patrick is a 3-Headed Marxist Monster, and that Iwog is one of those heads, if you know what I mean. In other words, Iwog may be an alter-ego of Patrick. Ideologically they are the same. One monster, 3 heads. Think about it. What a pussy sucker punch. A stupid graph about tax revenue & GDP with the headline “Proving the Teabaggers are full of crap in a single graph.” And Patrick lets this garbage into his daily news lineup? What juvenile, non-intelligent discourse. Think “3-headed monster” and it all makes sense. I will say one thing. - The board progressives generally talk about ideas and issues. - The board neocons, primarily our new arrivals, seem absolutely totally obsessed with attacking individual people and deflecting ideas and issues. Character assassination is the last resort of cowards who have nothing else to say. If you can't dispute what someone is saying, if you can't present an argument because all the facts are against you, at LEAST you can throw out random accusations and tin foil hat conspiracy theories.

34. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    153   6:41pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   MarkInSF says I can’t believe I’m defending duxbury, but you’re presenting a false choice. Corporations and public employee unions can and do both have inappropriate influence that goes against the interests of the public at large. You're right, it is a false choice, because at this point unions are so beaten down and powerless (and have been for decades), that they are no longer a check against corporate exploitation of workers. I was being a little hyperbolic in making the point about corporate power, not that my teachers union affects corporations one way or the other the slightest. But you are wrong about unions working against the interests of the people.

35. Vicente Follow Befriend (8) 204 threads 4,416 comments Davis, CA

    154   7:21pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   FalconMaster says I was thinking that Patrick is a 3-Headed Marxist Monster, and that Iwog is one of those heads, if you know what I mean. In other words, Iwog may be an alter-ego of Patrick. Ideologically they are the same. One monster, 3 heads. I think you don't have enough heads there. 3 doesn't seem nearly enough to contain Patrick. Oh yeah, your dragon needs to be riding a FEMA chopper.

36. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    155   9:02pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like (1)   Dislike   marcus says MarkInSF says I can’t believe I’m defending duxbury, but you’re presenting a false choice. Corporations and public employee unions can and do both have inappropriate influence that goes against the interests of the public at large. You’re right, it is a false choice, because at this point unions are so beaten down and powerless (and have been for decades), that they are no longer a check against corporate exploitation of workers. I was being a little hyperbolic in making the point about corporate power, not that my teachers union affects corporations one way or the other the slightest. But you are wrong about unions working against the interests of the people. Sorry, I was talking specifically about public employee unions. Those unions are still going strong, much stronger that 50 years ago, and they are hardly powerless.

37. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    156   9:04pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   FalconMaster says Iwog - give me a break, dude If he had posted the same graphs, which are interesting, you can't deny it, that is if he had just used a different headline, then you wouldn't have gotten your panties into such a bunch, right ? Who's the birdbrain ? All this over a fricken title ? You might want to look in to that.

38. marcus Follow Befriend (5) 168 threads 5,100 comments

    157   9:12pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   MarkInSF says orry, I was talking specifically about public employee unions. Those unions are still going strong, much stronger that 50 years ago, and they are hardly powerless. I am in one of them, and you are wrong. They only have a small amount of power right now, and that is to negotiate exactly what the decreases in pay and or benefits will be. And for the most part, we are not talking from crazy high levels. Trust me, you have NO clue what you are talking about. Yes, I guess you could say there is some power there. But it is a power that is so much in the interest of the public. You would not want providers of important services to be without such representation. It is very much related to quality. I am a very good Math teacher with a Masters degree in Math, but I am also a person with good "street" skills dealing with teens. Guess what, take away the union, and I am out of here, or off to a private school, but probably out of teaching. You alerted me to some questions about California contributions to pensions, but I can tell you, that on the subject of the value of public unions, you have no idea how far your head is up your **s.

39. MarkInSF Follow Befriend 14 threads 1,118 comments

    158   9:41pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike   marcus says MarkInSF says orry, I was talking specifically about public employee unions. Those unions are still going strong, much stronger that 50 years ago, and they are hardly powerless. I am in one of them, and you are wrong. They only have a small amount of power right now, and that is to negotiate exactly what the decreases in pay and or benefits will be. And for the most part, we are not talking from crazy high levels. Trust me, you have NO clue what you are talking about. Cuts will mostly be by layoffs. Unions will not make large concessions on pay, retirement age, or benefits. You know that. They would rather do what "best for the kids" and let younger teachers go, no matter how stellar they are. It is extremely unlikely this seniority system will change, and all efforts to implement some kind of merit based system will likely successfully be resisted, and it's 100% because of the power of the teachers union. I know I sound like I'm bashing teachers and I don't mean to. The are hardly where the most abuse of the system lies. In fact I'd argue the abuse elsewhere is keeping good teachers from getting what they deserve.

40. iwog Follow Befriend (48) 274 threads 12,576 comments 47 male Lafayette, CA Premium

    159   9:58pm Fri 4 Mar 2011   Share   Quote   Permalink   Like   Dislike (1)   FalconMaster says Iwog - give me a break, dude, I mean duck. Give me a break! You attacked an entire group with a single cowardly headline. With that headline, you generalize and lump an entire, diverse group into one, calling them “full of crap.” Where was your argument or facts?????????????????????????? Just an idiotic graph, that has nothing to do with the tea party movement. And guess what Iwog (3 Headed Marxist Monster) I am NOT a tea party “member.” I just think you are full of crap for attacking them and throwing out SUCH A SUCKER PUNCH. If you were a boxer, this story and headline would be a total KICK TO THE GROIN. See what I mean? Liberals target ideas, "conservatives" target people. I'll let the individual decide which one is more cowardly. Anyway back to the main subject. Taxes are now lower per GDP than any time since the 1950s, yet the teabaggers insist taxes are too high. (the original tea party was a tax revolt) The graph I posted clearly demonstrates the corruption in that position. Since taxes have been heavily reduced for rich people since the 1980s, and taxes are pretty much the same now as they have been for the last 50 years, WHY has the tax burden been shifted to the working class?

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