Total US Tax Revenue as a Percentage of GDP
Graph source: http://www.deptofnumbers.com/blog/2010/08/tax-revenue-as-a-fraction-of-gdp/
Data source: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/past_years.html
Proving the Teabaggers are full of crap in a single graph
By iwog Follow Tue, 1 Mar 2011, 7:55am 13,330 views 239 comments
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I am in one of them, and you are wrong. They only have a small amount of power right now, and that is to negotiate exactly what the decreases in pay and or benefits will be. And for the most part, we are not talking from crazy high levels. Trust me, you have NO clue what you are talking about.
>>>
the issue with thugocracy in 2010 vs. 1960 is that there are other countries. So the union extortion rackets, collusion with criminal democrat politicians for jobs rackets/kickback schemes is much more damaging.
The error of margin companies (and countries) have is very small vs. 1950 when half the world's factories were destroyed.
So the baby boomer delusion that we can't run out of money and the rich and corporate america can be milked ad infinitum doesn't work. So you may have to give up a bratty entitlement mentality and understand that we now live in a competitive global marketplace where $70/hour to work and lifetime benefits went out with the 60's. You actually have to carry your weight and can't reply on criminal extortion rackets.
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duxbury001 says
The US fed was giving away money back in the 1950s also. Where were the bubbles?
Lending was strictly regulated until the 1980s and the Reagan revolution. Most loans written during the bubble would have been ILLEGAL prior to 1980, in fact most would have probably been illegal until lending was deregulated in 1993. During that same time fed policy was pretty much unchanged.
How can you totally dismiss MASSIVE BANK AND SECURITIES DEREGULATION as a cause while blaming fed policy which AT MOST manipulated markets by a few percentage points?? How did you end up with such a huge blind spot?
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duxbury001 says
This is a lie that I've destroyed before, and as usual I can destroy it with a simple graph.
The small bump you see during World War II and then continuing to about 1950 is the FULL EXTENT OF UNITED STATES DOMINATION OF WORLD PRODUCTION.
By around 1950, our exports had returned to normal. (it's far more obvious in an inflation adjusted graph) By the 1960s both Japanese and German industrial might was asserting itself on the world.
The large spike in the 1970s and the early 1980s was caused by United States domination of computer technology. The slide into oblivion after 1983 is almost all Reagan and the elimination of our economic borders.
Strong unions + strong economic borders = strong economy.
Weak unions + free trade and globalism = economic oblivion.
Our future will much more resemble Mexico than post World War II USA if people like Dux retain control. He doesn't see it, but anyone who can read a graph should be able to understand the truth.
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iwog says
Not to mention, why were bubbles and busts far more common in the 19th century, before the Fed?
Point these facts out a hundred times, and they will just completely ignore it, and then likely be posting the same thing a few weeks later.
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duxbury001 says
Ah, so you're sticking to your story: The bubbles in all these countries happened because of their respective housing policies. And it was just a coincidence that they all happened at the same time. Am I getting you right?
You do know most of Europe barely has a positive birth rate right? And the regulations haven't changed much. And their property prices were not increasing much in the decades before that. So why the bubble that just happened to be when ours was, when they didn't have one before?
Well, no, that would be Ireland. Did you even read that piece on their housing policies that you posted a link to? Clearly not. Not a word on extending or backing credit to Irish home buyers. No the private banking sector did that entirely on their own. The government backing of the loans came after the fact when their economy imploded.
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This is a lie that I’ve destroyed before, and as usual I can destroy it with a simple graph.
The small bump you see during World War II and then continuing to about 1950 is the FULL EXTENT OF UNITED STATES DOMINATION OF WORLD PRODUCTION.
>>>
A lie? based on balance of trade? they aren't related. Look at industrial output. US share of global industrial production skyrocketed and dominated the post war era. GM and Ford dominated auto production. By the 80's Japan and Germany had caught up. By the 70's we had lost the steel industry. 80's garment and auto.
The problems is that unions can't compromise. You don't walk up to Vinny and say "hey vinny, can we cut our wages 10% because we've got japanese companies undercutting us". Vinny replies "FU, shut down the factory and fire the workers, we ain't budging"
You say Vinny, but we can't fire 100,000 pittsburg steelworkers.. why can't we just change the rules to keep them or lower the wages.
Vinny says "FU"
This had happened to millions of workers over 50 years. That's why there are virtually no private sector union workers left. Why? Because if Vinny cut salaries then union headquarters would go nuts. The racket is pulled.. every factory will demand this "competitiveness" BS, and the union racket is shut down. So better off for the thugs to send them out of business. With unions issues like "product quality", competitiveness, innovation.. are all BS.. unions are about bribing politicians, destroying businesses, extorting, corruption... not flexibilty.
>>>
4) Europeans are more prone to house price increases due to limited land and regulation… that’s why their prices go up (but don’t collapse as much as ours).
Pass the bong.
Ah, so you’re sticking to your story: The bubbles in all these countries happened because of their respective housing policies. And it was just a coincidence that they all happened at the same time. Am I getting you right?
>>>
Loose monetary policies from 1990 to 2010.. greenspan era. Easy money, economic boom
>>
4) Europeans are more prone to house price increases due to limited land and regulation… that’s why their prices go up (but don’t collapse as much as ours).
You do know most of Europe barely has a positive birth rate right? And the regulations haven’t changed much. And their property prices were not increasing much in the decades before that. So why the bubble that just happened to be when ours was, when they didn’t have one before?
>>
Europe is tiny and a farming mecca.. they have little land, hence high prices. Go to japan and look at real estate prices. Fixed supply + increasing wealth + population = rising prices. Can you go back to high school again?
>>>
Well, no, that would be Ireland. Did you even read that piece on their housing policies that you posted a link to? Clearly not. Not a word on extending or backing credit to Irish home buyers.
>>>
ummmm... the irish banking industry imploded because of dumb mortgages and easy credit. They had a boom similar to Japan in the 80's where the economy grew too fast.
I feel like I am having an argument with this guy in a grass skirt on a south pacific island telling me the world is flat. Unions are criminal enterprises that compel grossly inflated wages. You can't live in a fantasy world where people get paid $70 an hour to mow lawns and teachers $100/hour while trying the sleep with the students. You can't force banks to give money to minorities who default at staggering rates and subsidize housing to an absurd degree, give away money at low rates (then jack it up suddenly) and then wonder where the default crisis came from.
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marcus says
this is where it gets kinda funny... you think a NYC teacher can get fired or thrown in prison? To union thugs, you are the sucker and the underclass. They can rape your daughter or do what they want and you don't stand a chance (so get used to it).
NYC has a "rubber room" where they put these teachers and they can't fire them or get rid of them... full of perverts and pedophiles. Far from going to jail... go fondle a girl and you get a full salary to do nothing.
It gets really funny with the rumor with the psycho in the Arizona shooting.. turns out mommy was a government employees (a milliondollar pension.. she's richer than you and your overlord). So her son the nut job got away with being a nut and nothing every happened bc mommy made the calls. So when they aren't raping your kid, bankrupting your state or killing you.. I guess unions are OK.
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duxbury001 says
Funny how you say they aren't related, then you contradict yourself and say they are related. How the hell does "The United States had all the factories left in the world" matter one tiny bit UNLESS it impacted international trade??????
duxbury001 says
This is nonsense. Germany and Japan had "caught up" by 1960 and were heavily industrialized. You have a nasty habit of simply making up stuff that you believe to be true without actually checking if it's true or not.
VW sold over 1 million Beetles in 1965. This is over FIVE TIMES the production numbers of every make and model car produced by Chrysler that same year and it was double the entire factory production at Dodge. The reason VW and Japan didn't overwhelm our markets was because all cars imported into the United States had a 25% tariff attached to them. Your hero Reagan lowered it to 2.5%.
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iwog says
Yes, that does seem to be the primary technique they learn from AM radio.
FalconMaster is now banned for dragging the conversation down into mere insults. But if he wants to talk about ideas instead of attacking the other people on the forum personally, he's welcome back.
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duxbury001 says
Ray, this is so exaggerated. You take a true union flaw, and blow it up to a level that is dishonest. How do you look yourself in the mirror, does honesty and integrity mean nothing to you ?
It's true that bad teachers have a bit too much protection, but there is a reason that evolved. It has to do with providing job security for someone who is willing to choose (and commit to) a teaching career which is a service to the community and which historically has been paid less than most other careers. You wouldn't want good teachers career to end because he looked at some crazy administrator the wrong way. (Yes, bad administrators occur every now and then).
If teachers were too easily fired, would they be committing those key decades developing their craft, only to be fired at 50 (for some made up reason) and replaced by a younger cheaper more obedient teacher.
About the rubber rooms. Yes, it is a long process firing a teacher (it takes too long), but fortunately teachers can be taken out of the classroom before that firing occurs. That is they are removed from the class before the process completes itself - and thus end up in one of those rooms.
I am for getting rid of bad teachers more easily. But I understand how and why the process is as it is in the largest districts and it has nothing to do with union thugs.
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marcus says
We need to have a Telethon to raise money for the poor, poor, downtrodden unions. I'm getting teary eyed just thinking about it.
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duxbury001 says
This is not an exageration, but a well-documented fact. All because of the power of the Teacher's Union in NYC.
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RayAmerica says
Actually it's a lie.
"they can't fire them or get rid of them" is the part that is a lie. Most are in the process of being gotten rid of. Yes that due process is because of the union. And if you read my full comment, you would understand why that policy exists. What it comes down to is that the process for taking someone out of the classroom is far different than the process for firing them.
I wonder what percentage of New York teachers end up in that room. Maybe two or three teachers out of every 1000. Probably less.
The need to get rid of bad teachers goes far beyond the dramatic stories about that room, and I agree with it. But it is a tricky business for anyone that understands the profession.
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marcus says
Really? I saw a segment on this very subject on "60 Minutes" several years ago. Last I checked, and I might be wrong, but "60 Minutes" is owned and produced by one CBS. Not exactly what one might consider to be a member of the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy."
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RayAmerica says
This is why I have you on ignore. You don't even read or attempt to comprehend my comments. I didn't deny that the rooms exist. The false part is: “they can’t fire them or get rid of them”
The truth is most teachers in these rooms are in a long process of being fired.
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RayAmerica says
When did 60 minutes become objective journalism? They originated the concept of write the conclusions you want for the story then come up with a story that supports it without letting any inconvenient facts interfere. Although they have been far surpassed, 60 minutes was at the beginning the most slanted, biased "news" program on the air. Many of their stories have been shown to be more entertainment than journalism.
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bob2356 says
Exactly what I suspected; 60 Minutes is a part of the sneaky, diabolical "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy." Very clever of them to air on a liberal network. Well, you have to hand it to them. They have a lot of people fooled.
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60 Minutes? Target market seems to be 80+. Perhaps age and advancing senility explain things.
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duxbury001 says
Glad to see you backed off your absurd claim that government promotion of housing ownership caused the housing bubble in Ireland.
And the cause of the dumb mortgages and easy credit was.....?
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RayAmerica says
Where exactly in my comment did I mention left or right wing? You seem to see the entire world as a vast pool of extreme liberals attempting to overrun your tiny tin hat bunker world. Grow up.
I said 60 minutes is crappy journalism, if anyone would go so far as to call them journalism at all. Period. If you want to use 60 minutes as a cornerstone to your world view that's you problem. If I ever watched a 60 minutes piece (doubtful, washing the dog would be a much better use of my time) I would then go and check the actual facts, not rely on 60 minutes "news".
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iwog says
Hi my cute african boy. 2+2 = 4. Did you know that? international balances of trade are determined by relative strengths of markets. Germany wasn't buying too many Rolls Royces in 1946, GE refrigerators. I am assuming you were educated by union teacher. You are just plain ignorant. But your left wing indocrination is real good!! That'll get you A's with most union schools.
Here's my point... but you are too stupid or asinine to get... in 1945 the US had no significant foreign industrial competition. But we do now... Oh boy do we ever!! China will double the US economy in 20 years. So you really can't have those fantasy world union jobs circa 1950. This is gone with the wind. Liberals are cognitive narcissists... basically a psychological disorder. Racial policy is always assuming the world is Selma Alabama circa 1960, economic policy 1955. The world changes... you are like a the 90 year old lady with the bee hive haircut. Times have changed but your opinion never does. The hey day of american liberalism never dies with (I am assuming baby boomer?).
Stupid arguing with you... you aren't my equal.. just an ignorant ass spouting propaganda.
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marcus says
You really have a poor understanding of thugocracy. The people serve the government and the government serves its unions. NYC can't fire teachers because it costs millions in litigation. So it is open season on your daughters in NYC schools.
Thugocracy means that the connected can kill the silly taxpayers at will (like Richard Daley's nephew who just got away with murder). In chicago the union electricians were charging conventions $1200 to plug in a computers. The convention business was imploding. Out of some miracle the state government actually stood up to thugocracy and allowed conventions to not use unions (producing 10's of millions in revenues.
To quote Al Shanker (NEA founder) "I'll start caring about students when they start paying dues". For teachers, thugocracy trumps students any day. Teachers have an adversarial relationship with students and taxpayers (suckers to exploit).
it gets funny when people think increasing education spending will boost educational quality. The problem is that teachers are part of a gangster racket. Paying gangsters hostage money just makes them more powerful and belligerent. So the more educational spending has gone up in 30 years, the more the quality has gone down.
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duxbury001 says
So what you're saying is--I don't care about the facts, here's my story again.
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what was theMarkInSF says
Ireland was a giant recipient of EU money and had super stimulative low tax rates. These huge imbalances cauesed a tidal wave of prosperity that lead to a boom. Of course government policy plays a part in these booms. Markets are rapidly self-correcting. Government influence is not.
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tatupu70 says
Baffoon.... just out of curiosity... can you an industrial concern with significant revenues outside of the US in 1945? THEN SHUT THE F-UP.
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duxbury001 says
duxbury001 says
duxbury001 says
duxbury001 says
A troller's troll.
This guy reminds me of Troy. Always with the calm well thought out reason. No emotional bias. You can't help but respect his intellect and the way he assembles specific facts to convince readers of his position.
Even though I am a teacher, Ray Duxbury has such an incredible and higher grasp of all the issues in public education, that I can't begin to dispute his airtight arguments.
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Remember, when our educational quality is compared to other countries, included are far more homogeneous countries, and countries where students are split off into training for trades at about the age of 12 to 14.
Our system is quite different.
If you look at the number of students taking AP classes (college classes in high school) it has steadily increased, most dramatically in recent years. It is debatable whether this is an entirely good thing, but it shows that we have an increasing number of students that are well prepared for college.
Yes, at the same time that public schools are producing more well prepared students than ever for college, they are doing a bad job with students from the poorest families.
duxbury001 says
So you think that spending per student is the only variable, and it is inversely correlated to outcomes.
Consider that poverty is a variable. Including low income but not quite technically below the poverty line. I wonder how those numbers have done the last 30 years. Because that is the group that we (public educators) don't do nearly well enough with.
I think the reason trolls like you hang around here is that in spite of your emotion, deep down you might be willing to learn something. The first step is realizing that there are many people with a lot more intellectual horsepower who can help you out.
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duxbury001 says
And why is that? Because Reagan and those who came afterward opened our borders up to foreign goods?
Your premise that all the factories were still bombed in 1960 is nonsense. Post-war American dominance of manufacturing lasted about 5 years and it's clear on the graph I provided. In fact the United States held its own against foreign competition until around 1981 because we had trade barriers to protect our own workers.
Everything you write is simply blind assertion. You don't even attempt to support your points, you just spew out dogma and pretend it's all true. You call it arguing, but you haven't constructed a single argument yet.
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RayDuxbury: You might consider exercising your mind. Because as far as I can tell you only exercise your emotions here. It has been shown that for seniors as well as everyone else, exercising you brain can lead to effective increases in intelligence.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4838849_exercise-your-brain.html
http://www.braintraining101.com/exercise-your-brain-in-15-minutes-flat/
I'm not kidding Dux, this would benefit you. Maybe just play some Soduko or do a crossword puzzle.
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duxbury001 says
1945 = straw man. The state of the world economy in 1945 isn't relevant. YOU CLAIMED that bubbles were caused by the fed giving out money. I presented the FACT that the fed has been giving out money since 1911, yet all the bubbles either occurred before 1930 or after 1980.
You haven't answered that criticism, presented any data, or even made a rational argument. You're entire portfolio of wisdom on this issue seems to be "da factories were bombed!!!".
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duxbury001 says
Please explain how low taxes and a few hundred dollars per person per year of EU aid money caused the financial industry to make over $100 billion of bad loans, and then completely collapse. There is an enormous gap in your logic here.
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MarkInSF says
ummm.. you know if you want me to teach you basic economics you really need to pay me $100/hour (like public school teachers). Google Irish tiger... THEN SHUT THE F-UP.
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iwog says
the problem is (jackass) is that you can;t pay Lawnmowers $70/hour or have idiotic work rules circa 1955 in 2010. It is a different world. In the 70's union idiots were welding beer cans for fun into GM cars. Between horrible productivity and absurd work rules, inflated pensions, US industrial might was destroyed by the unions in the 70's and 80's. US Steel, bethlahem steel, chrysler bankruptcyu... etc.
German industrial might did not recover until the 80s, same as Japan.
As for your "Reagan" problem... the seventies were and economic abomination. The reason our balance of trade got worse in the 80's wa our increase in consumption from our sudden gain wealth vis-a-vis the rest of the world while europe and japan held up trade barriers. Reagan lowered interest rates, won the cold war and turned around the US economy.
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duxbury001 says
Bullshit. You're simply making up nonsense and pretending it's true when you have no idea if you're right or not. Japan's period of huge industrial growth was called the "Golden 60s". The 1960s was also termed the second decade of the "Japanese economic miracle. " Industrial growth in Germany during the 1960s was termed the "Miracle economy". Since you're ignorant of these terms I suggest you look them up and educate yourself.
Ignoring history for a moment, you're actually suggesting that it takes 35 years to rebuild an economy. This is silly idiotic nonsense no matter how many bombs were dropped on Dresden. The best selling car in 1965 didn't come from GM. It came from Volkswagen, but you're too scared to even comment on this fact.
duxbury001 says
Why? Because you say so? Because your hero Reagan can come to the rescue, TRIPLE the national debt, and buy a recovery?
I already posted a graph showing the balance of trade in the 1970's. We were actually very healthy and producing more for export than we imported. GDP grew every year except during the 1973-1974 recession.
Real wages fell because of inflation, but not by much:
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duxbury001 says
No he didn't. Volker lowered interest rates. Volker was a Carter appointee.
Whoops!
Reagan was mostly known for TRIPLING the national debt and not being able to explain under oath what our policy in Latin America was because he didn't remember. The man who you believe ended the Cold War said under oath he didn't even know what Oliver North was doing.
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duxbury001 says
The 1970s get a bad rap but job-wise they were outstanding.
Total Nonfarm Payrolls: All Employees (PAYEMS) 1971-1981
shows that the 1970s were a period of very strong growth.
It's my thesis that it was the baby boom turning 20 and 30 that prompted a lot of the inflation
The 2000s are a total joke compared to the 1970s:
Total Nonfarm Payrolls: All Employees (PAYEMS) 2001-2011
actually ending with FEWER jobs than what we started at. "Bush Economy" FTL.
and this graph:
National Debt / GDP, 1965 - 1995
shows that the national debt DECLINED vs GDP from 1970 to 1980, and EXPLODED from 1980 to 1990.
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=
Yea, ok... my little asian boy from samoa. Yes, the earth really is round. Why don't you check out German industrial production vis-a-vis the US circa 1910? Or British? The 1950's was a delusional era when the three great powers (Uk, Germany, Japan) were on their knees. I am not doubting that they recovered from their cities being flattened and nuked very well... but their industries were playing catchup for decades and the US had no serious competitors. Japan's products were a joke in the 60's, Britain committed suicide by socializing its industries and Germany was just getting its act in gear. We all know how much of a serious rival China was in 1950... with those rice paddies and huts.
So I am not sure why your pea sized brain can't adjust to this... Like the Roman empire, we faced NO SERIOUS RIVALS from 1945-1980. After 2010 we don't face a rival, but are inferior to China in overall economic activity by some metricts.
So you are basically saying economic policy should be based on a very temporary period when the US had no major rivals... and that we should keep the idiotic complacency in 2010. We should pay people $70/hour to let them mow the lawn and $100/hour to teach our kids. Am I getting this straight?
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duxbury001 says
Again-how come our balance of trade over that time period doesn't reflect this then? It should be easy to prove this--why don't you post some data to back it up?
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Troy says
Sometimes you've really got to admire the work of college professors. As stupid it is... you really have to kick back and wonder. This is among the dumbest statements... bar none... I have ever heard. Its not something you argue against... like at a freak show when they have the wolf boy. You have to ask yourself can people be this stupid or indoctrinated? Who or what is responsible for this? You have to get philosophical about it and start to question how different we are from apes indeed. It starts to make sense about why the holocaust happend or Joe Stalin... Mao. It all makes sense now. People really can be that stupid.
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tatupu70 says
OK, I realize your IQ is about half mine, but I am going to try to explain this in small words so that you might understand. Let's give a try? C'mon.. try to listen this time.
If the US is doing really, really swell.. and has super, duper money!!! really happy! Daddy and Mommy might buy a German car like a Porsche (zoom, zoom!!). So because Daddy and Mommy have SOOOOOOOOOOO much money they buy lots of stuff overseas.
But those Germans aren't doing so well.. they can't get as many credit cards and other things. They don't make as much money. So those germans don't buy that many IBM computers from the US.
And to add to our problems... THOSE MEAN GERMANS AND JAPANESE put up trade barriers and super sneaky ones like the VAT, which may our products super duper expensive over there.
So it ends up that we buy stuff from Germany than they buy from us... even though our economy is doing well at the time.