WatchFile under the "FYI" and "Just Sayin' " Depts...
Seems to me this should be a post to an earlier thread, but I can't be bothered to dig for it.
"On basic questions of morality and human decency — issues such as governmental use of torture, the death penalty, punitive hitting of children, racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, environmental degradation or human rights — the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious."
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"As individuals, atheists tend to score high on measures of intelligence, especially verbal ability and scientific literacy. They tend to raise their children to solve problems rationally, to make up their own minds when it comes to existential questions and to obey the golden rule. They are more likely to practice safe sex than the strongly religious are, and are less likely to be nationalistic or ethnocentric. They value freedom of thought."
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"Consider that at the societal level, murder rates are far lower in secularized nations such as Japan or Sweden than they are in the much more religious United States, which also has a much greater portion of its population in prison. Even within this country, those states with the highest levels of church attendance, such as Louisiana and Mississippi, have significantly higher murder rates than far less religious states such as Vermont and Oregon."
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Bap33 says
Naw, you just show up to the picnic. Herding atheists is like herding cats. Organized atheists tend to be very fringe type rebellious people who make it a sport to attack religion. They get offended easily and believe they are better than the theists.
As a result, organized atheists are such a small group that they are damn near invisible. The only time you hear about them is when you've got a lawsuit to take god out of the pledge of allegiance or some group is attacking a church nativity scene or something similar.
Most atheists and agnostics are not organized, do not try and convert people, and simply don't "go there". A real atheist doesn't even think about religion because it's not important. He/she is simply 100% secular.
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Bap33 says
That's like saying all food is atheist food because it's not religious or that schools are atheist because they don't pray.
The correct word is secular. I think most people consider atheist media to be that which specifically denies god and attacks religious belief. A very devoted Christian might have a children's puppet show about not talking to strangers. Would you call it atheist because it's not specifically religious?
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iwog says
Well, I concede the point on secular not being atheist. I stretched too far on the porn thing, and only consider something atheistic if the speaker specifically asserts there is no god. However, the christians in sex scandals raises an interesting question (at least to me). If someone eats meat but attends a vegetarian club meeting once a week and calls himself a vegan, is he a vegetarian? Likewise, if someone attends church and uses christian jargon, but then embezzles, murders, gets caught in a sex scandal, etc. - are they a christian?
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mlisaj1111 says
Yeah pretty much. I accept that Christians teach we are all sinners so I have to take that literally, and since all sin is identical in the eyes of god, it means that a Christian is capable of anything.....even murder.
Not that I'm a Christian, but as I said previously I respect Christianity a lot more than many atheists I know.
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yea, I agree with that view of sin too, as a non-atheist.
about Nativity set-ups ...... if a person does not believe in God, or the divinity of Jesus, then that bunch of figures sleeping with animals with a baby there shouldn't bother them one bit. So, hmmmm, what's their deal?
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I had added a comment earlier that, at least online, I have found atheists to be more fervent evangilists than religious people. This comment was fairly soundly mocked, but just now I came across some additional support for the assertion. Here is a quote from a story on CNN's belief blog regarding the top 10 things they learned in the first year of their blog:
CNN QUOTE (ABBREVIATED) "2. Atheists are the most fervent commenters on matters religious. This became apparent immediately after the Belief Blog's first official post last May, which quickly drew such comments as...Those early comments presaged an avalanche of alternately humorous and outraged atheist responses on virtually everything the Belief Blog publishes. They're more evidence that atheists are coming out of the closet to trumpet their disbelief, argue with the faithful and evangelize their godlessness."
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mlisaj1111 says
Like Al-Queda, the atheists referred to here, define themselves by whom (or what) they hate.
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wow ... excellant point. Very good. Thanks.
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Does that indicate a passive-agressive commonality in the atheist army? Or, do they lack the total commitment? lol
There are many false-gods ..... "self" included. Atheists seem to believe "self" is a god. Or something like that. I admit a lack of understanding in the matter.
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Why do Atheists only pick on Jesus?
Do you know what an atheist that picks on Judaism is called?
"Antisemitism"
So why is being accused of being Antisemitic, a crime, but being outspoken against Christianity not?
Let's see you agitating Bastards put your mouth where your ass is.
Draw me a picture of Mohammad, and post it on line somewhere.
Oh that's what I though, you're not committed to your beliefs that all religions are nuts and fairy tales, you just hate Jesus.
That's fine but stop putting on airs that you're some how more progressive than everyone else. You're just being the only legal hater in America.
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Tenouncetrout says
They don't, but christianity is the predominant religion in the US, that forces it's will on others. As a result there is more to complain about.
Tenouncetrout says
As many Jews are secular/atheists as there are religious ones, and the religious ones don't try and force their views on others. When was the last time you saw a missionary for judaism?
Tenouncetrout says
Notable atheists in Europe have been killed or attempted to be killed for speaking out against islam.
Islam comes into conflict with secular Europe than it does here.
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leoj707 says
That's a very Atheimite statement. See there isn't even a word for offending Christians. Well there's blasphemy, but that's like saying Eric Clapton is over rated.
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You disappoint me tot, but then I guess I knew there was some hate brewing there right below the surface.
The fundamentalist christians that get a lot of disrespect, aren't a race, in fact as far as I'm concerned they are marginally Christians (although big in number).
(I'm not talking Catholics, Presbyterians, Episcipalians, Christian Scienctists, Church of Christ, Unitarians, some Baptists, Mormons or the countless other Christian denominations I have more respect for than the fundamentalists. But they are not a "race" either)
Even if they were a race, you would have to go back to ancient times very shortly after Christ, to see hate (from dominant cultures) against the Christians of the magnitude where they were thrown to the lions for entertainment. Yeah, there were the wars between different Christian sects (the Crusades). But how many centuries ago was that ?
But we only have to go back a little over 60 years to see mass executions of Jews, and it was racial thing (not just religious).
All in all,... fail. Down vote.
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marcus says
That's why the following observation was not antisemitic.
leoj707 says
Its a race (sort of), as well as a religion, which is why it isn't a contradiction to say someone is both a jew and an athieist.
I say sort of, because you have the Sephardic and the Ashkenazic very different, but still often thought of as a race of people (the tribe).
We might expect Simcha to weigh in here with a post about 30 inches long.
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Tell me one goddamn race you've got to cut your nut sack to be a part of, or pay dues to an institution to be a card carrying member, or tell me one fucking race you can convert to.
I'll be over here waiting by reality, when you have an answer to that.
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Jews are not a race.
I know lots of religious atheist Jews. The last synagogue where I was a member actively encouraged atheists to join and participate in services.
The Reconstructionist Movement was originally founded by atheists.
Is that short enough for you Mr. Marcus?
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Another religion that is very welcome to atheists is Unitarian Universalism. The UU Church that I attend has a very active Secular Humanist Group. They meet every Sunday after they attend services.
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I said it is a race "sort of," keep up Tot.
http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm#Race
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060910082321AACwguZ
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_Jewish_a_race_or_a_religion
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/174,2191347/Are-Jews-a-race.html
You can separate it as a religion and yes you can convert to it. And yet in many cases it is often culture or ethnicity that one can be born into.
Put it this way, if one is born into a jewish family, especially if they have roots going back ( Sephardic or Ashkenazic ), then even if they are atheist AND NON PRACTICING from birth, they are still likely to be considered jewish, first and foremost in their own eyes, far more than I consider myself Catholic, even though I was born and raised Catholic, but practice no longer.
Tot you can be a know it all, or you can do your fucking homework. There is some subtlety and complexity to this though.
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simchaland says
And yet you still consider yourself jewish, but not so much because you practice, whereas if I were as practicing Unitarian, I would probably call myself a recovering Catholic or something along those lines. That is born Catholic, but no longer one.
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marcus says
Of Sort?
Sammy Davis was a Jew, show me a black cracker, or chink and you win.
You're calling me an know it all, you're the one arguing with Simchland, a Jew that just told you Jews are not a race.
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At least read the links I just posted.
Is light a wave or a particle ? Either you understand or you don't.
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Tenouncetrout says
I'm not arguing with him. He knows more than I do about it, and he knows what I meant by "sort of" a race.
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NO, those are internet postings, on blogs or ask yahoo, they are no more authorities on the subject than you or I. I'm sticking with what has been common knowledge since before Jesus died on the cross.
At least get Simchland, the only Jew in this absurd conversation, on board with your revisions then work on me.
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Nobody would ever say they consider themselves Christian primarily for genetic reasons.
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It's has less to do with genetics and more about the Mother you were born to. Mothers and matriarchs are a reoccurring theme in religion, even a self professed expert like you armed with your "ASK Yahoo" ought to know that.
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Tenouncetrout says
Yes, by jews. The first one is a web site called Judaism 101, and they do say that technically it is not a race, which doesn't contradict my saying that it sort of is.
Isn't trying to comprehend what I meant more important than just being an ah ?
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I don't think you are an Idiot I just wanted to use "Sort of" in context for you, so you would know what it means.
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Meh, I'm not much of a "practicing" Unitarian Universalist. I'm not sure that there is a way of "practicing" Unitarian Universalism.
Being Jewish is an ethnicity, people, and a set of tribes but not a race. We have a culture. We are a people. A race is more defined by looks than culture or ethnicity. Sephardim and Ashkenazim look quite different and the cultures are slightly different but we are all Jews sharing the same ethnicity and religion. Yemenite and Falasha Jews are also part of the same ethnicity/set of tribes.
I am a Jew by birth, by culture, and religion. Converts are joining a people, ethnic identity, a set of tribes, and a religion. Also they are adopting a culture. Jewish identity is a both and and and... identity. But it's not a race.
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Tenouncetrout says
Yes actually, yes. I might even go as far as to say I am a complete and total idiot at times.
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That's OK you can redeem your self in my next "Them damn Democrats" rant.
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The Lucis Trust is a leading NGO (non-governmental organization) for the United Nations. Lucis Trust is pro-Luciferian (similar to Satanism) and anti-Christian.
The UN seeks (source: UN Agenda 21) to gradually replace all the major religions of the world with a single Earth-worshipping, pagan GAYA religion. This is why the central bankers behind the UN use their control of the media to portray all religions (Christianity, Islam) as worthless and stupid. China's handling of religion is very similar.
Note the media frenzy around Harry Potter and Twilight, yet it clearly denounces the two great religions of the world -- Christianity and Islam. A single central banker-friendly religion that is integrated with the government via climate laws is their end-goal, as this will unite the people of the world under a single vision -- ensuring the unelected central bankers remain at the top of the food chain, with an unprecedented amount of control over all of humanity.
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Jason M. says
You forgot to mention that the UN is ultimately controlled by the Frankenstein Communist Gangster God, bent on replacing our brains with brain bank brains while keeping our brains in a secret base on the dark side of the moon. Also, it keeps watch on what we do with the insidious technology of eyesight television.
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Sorry, fact and truth are immune to disinformation, for those who seek real information.
Objective, independent sources: Joan Veon, Niki Raapana
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Jason M. says
Yes!
We must expose the Worldwide Mad Deadly Communist Gangster Computer God's secret conspiracy to make us all suffer under the Frankenstein yoke of his command.
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Jason M. says
Please cite one more source. At least three crackpots need to agree or it is not officially pseudoscience.
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leoj707 says
lol ... like AlGOres man-made global warming? Only boomers would ever think/hope/wish THEY could leave a mark like that.
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Bap33 says
No... No... not at all like that.
When 99% of the pier-reviewed main stream scientists agree on a point that is what is called “real science” or “fact and reality supported science”. You know the guys that brought you: cell phones, airplanes, Velcro, the atom bomb, modern medicine, and internet forums.
To be officially pseudoscience you need a quorum of at least three crackpots to support the view. You will find that your views on global warming are well supported by the pseudoscience community.
Question: If you had a large lump in your arm, and went to see 99 doctors who all said this is a cancerous tumor growing in your arm you need to do something about it now, before it spreads! Then the 100th doctor (suggested to you by Sean Hannity), with ant farms instead of degrees on his wall, took a look and said, “No problem, this is part of a natural ebb and flow within your body. Don’t do anything about it, those other doctors are trying to scam you.”
What would you do?
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leoj707 says
Actually, more accurately put that lump in your child's arm.
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Fox News has caused so much harm to this country and yet they are more popular than ever... Is it just me or this would do a great Hollywood synopsis. People getting dumber because of modern media controlled by a madman.
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I know what's up with that, I wish there were that many committed democrats in the world, to make the Huffingtonpost news Channel, the nations most beloved news network.