WatchHere's a partial list of what is often referred to as "hidden taxes," none of which were in existence 100 years ago. While looking at this list, can you honestly say we are not paying too much in taxes?
Federal income tax
State tax
property tax
gasoline tax
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Tangible Taxes
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
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Taxes are necessary for a civilized society. I like parks, roads, schools, defense, libraries, etc. Hating taxes means hating making your fair contribution. Paying your taxes is patriotic. Make a contribution and shut up about it.
And waste, sure there's waste. When I worked in private industry there was plenty of waste. And at home I have 5 beautiful tomatoes rotting in my fridge. It's inevitable. We must work to limit it, but it is not an excuse for not paying taxes.
And for the democrat haters among you it was Reagan who started the giveaway to the wealthy (by way of mortgaging the future) and Bush who doubled the national debt in six years. These are facts. Incontrovertible facts. Like Obama's birth certificate.
But if you hate government and taxes so much you might want to move to Somalia where you can breathe free.
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Bellingham, WA
bob2356 says
and also the increasing import of goods from China. In 1990 nothing was from China, but by 2000 everything was.
1990 - $15B in imports, 2000 - $100B (6X expansion), 2010 - $364B (3.6X)
pretty good deal for us to have all this wealth hit us without having to pay for it.
yet.
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47 male
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bob2356 says
On May 9th 2008, exactly three years ago, the dollar index was at 73.05 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=DXY:IND
Today the dollar index closed at 74.66
I swear to god, some of you live on bullshit instead of oxygen. I'm getting tired of it.
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iwog says
Yes and 5 months later it was at 88, I amend my statement to 2 years and 7 months. Five months earlier it was at 85. Wow you managed to find a dip that corresponds to today's price. La dee f ing da. Do you feel good that you have technically proven me incorrect while totally avoiding the truth in what I was saying?
I would call an 18.9% drop in 2 years and 8 months against all currencies included the Euro which the dollar has gained against moving the dollar. Of course you will just change your definition not moving the dollar much, because the duck always has to be right no matter how much he has to dance around to do it. And you accuse everyone else of living on bullshit.
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bob2356 says
Congratulations Bob. You (along with just about everyone else) have figured the Ducky boy out for what he really is.
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bob2356 says
I didn't find a dip, I simply took you at your word. You said 3 years, so I went back three years TO THE DAY. Furthermore you also said 30%, which was wrong (even at the top of the spike) and you've now revised it to 18.9%.
You jumped all over my statement that trillions of dollars worth of printing hasn't moved the dollar much. The value of the dollar has moved within a relatively narrow range DURING the printing of trillions of dollars. This is good evidence that the dollar can withstand a good deal more devaluation without turning us into Zimbabwe.
bob2356 says
What gave you the right to pick an arbitrary high spike in the price as your starting point? 2 years and 8 months?
The spike to which you are making your case is the EXACT BOTTOM OF THE STOCK MARKET CRASH! Do ya THINK that MAYBE this might be a bad place to set your baseline? The current value of the dollar index is approximately 6% below its three year average. It's also just off an intermediate term low. Maybe this sounds extreme to you, but this fits my definition of "not moving the dollar much".
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iwog says
Of course you did took me at my word, in this instance. You deal in great precision unless it's inconvenient to your argument, then you deal in the most broad of generalities. Whatever it takes to be right.
You also very carefully ignored my statement "30% in a LOT of currencies excluding the euro". I pointed the Euro out because it has the biggest (but not only) loss against the dollar, although is now gaining back ground. A LOT is not ALL. The dollar has lost that much against MANY (aka A LOT) currencies, NOT ALL. The number for ALL currencies peak to trough, gainers and losers is 18.9%. Of course you took 30% out of context, that's how you operate. I never revised anything.
So 18.9% is a relatively narrow range in your world? I disagree. When did I ever mention Zimbabwe? Words into my mouth as usual. Whatever it takes to be right.
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iwog says
It wasn't free market when government was fully backing this real estate gamble.
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RayAmerica says
Hi Ray, please explain how a simple statement of fact is irrational other than in your alice in wonderland alternative reality where everyone to the left of hitler and franco are flaming liberals out to destroy america. As a slightly right of center moderate I have to say being called irrational by you is a mark of the highest honor. I will treasure it.
It's good that with maturity you are learning to heed the prophetic words of mark twain.
"It is a far better thing to remain silent and appear to be a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt"
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47 male
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bob2356 says
18.9% is peak to peak!! Give me a fricken break here. The ONLY legitimate way to judge the effect of QE and money printing is a moving average, and for the record I would certainly EXCLUDE the biggest stock market crash in 21 years from my data set. As I said, the current mid-term low in the dollar index is about 6% below the three year average. (2% a year) Is this impressive to you? It certainly isn't impressive to me.
This isn't about "whatever it takes to be right". This is about accuracy when presenting your argument.
bob2356 says
The dollar index is a weighted index. Currencies like the Canadian dollar have very little effect on the index because Canadian money represents a miniscule percentage of the money used in world transactions. I'm sure you can find a currency with a tiny circulation to support ANY argument you want. Why stop at 30% when you can have 50% or 80%?
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bob2356 says
I think you need to return to school. You need more learnin.
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Burbank, CA
Do you think this couldn't happen here? Guess again.
http://www.businessinsider.com/irish-bombshell-government-raids-private-pensions-to-pay-for-jobs-program-2011-5
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@Ray
>"a short book by Chalmers Johnson; “Dismantling of Empire: America’s Last Best Hope.”
OK . I have skimmed parts of it... perhaps I should read it fully.
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Johnson's book is a good one in that it illustrates how America really is an empire , in spite of the fact it makes no such official claim, and that it has spread itself far too thin for it to continue. The massive costs involved in financing our colonialism and military will bankrupt us in the end. The only exception I would have with his book is that Johnson consistently calls for merely shifting these costs from the military, etc. into our own social programs. I firmly believe that our nation is doomed economically if we don't make massive cuts in the areas that he recommends along with our expenditures on all things the government provides. At least Johnson's book brings up issues that very few are talking about.
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iwog says
After the Titanic hit the iceberg, there was "evidence" in a lot of people's mind that there was no danger. Why? Because it was widely believed to be an unsinkable ship and the list was not immediately evident. This analogy is similar to the fate of the dollar. There is a widely, if uninformed, belief, that the dollar is invincible. It has served as the world's reserve currency since the end of WW 2. There are many signs around the world that indicates that status is on its last leg. We've seen a tremendous run-up in the price of gold, which is really a reflection in large part, to the weakness of confidence in paper currencies. Iwog is correct; we are not becoming Zimbabwe … yet. The pressing question is: how long can we continue to expect the world to accept our devalued dollars without enormous repercussions?
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47 male
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You haven't seen enormous repercussions yet. Watch what happens when the fed stops printing and the government stops spending.
Good luck. You're gonna need it.
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http://morejobsnottaxes.com/
Soon unions will be extorting even more taxes on local level from the working class. Not looking forward to a day when CTA can levi taxes independently from the state.
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iwog says
No hyperbole in that statement. Who is saying the Fed will completely stop printing and the government quits all spending?
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Bellingham, WA
iwog says
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVpN312hYgU
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"Soon unions will be extorting even more taxes on local level from the working class. Not looking forward to a day when CTA can levi taxes independently from the state."
If your going to make aubsurd statements liek that, can you not site websites that are nothing more than corporate front groups? Yeah, unions are responsible for all of the budget wies. Ignore the fact that California has a massive illegal immirant population.
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iwog says
iwog says
Yes 18.9% is peak to trough so I accept it is not really to whole story. A bit of IWOG sensationalism on my part. I usually try to avoid that. Still, I don't come up with 6% on the 5 year average (which I think is more representative than 3 year) excluding the 5 months of crap numbers for the stock market crash. I come up with more like 10-11%. As you pointed out it's a weighted index. Since one of the largest components of the weighted index, the EURO, has dropped quite a bit also that makes the number effectively even bigger against the other currencies of the world. Having a 10% fall in that case is pretty serious in my opinion.
Your argument of pointing out one small currency, instead of looking at the aggregate if the world's currency's in total is just another manifestation of being always right. Yes Canada is one small currency, as it Thailand, Korea, Switzerland, Chile etc., etc., etc.. BUT you put them all together and it's a pretty big pot to compare to. Yes I could come up with any number between 100% and negative 100% if I wanted to play your game. As I said, MANY of the currencies I've looked at seem to be up around 30% from 2.5 years ago (so as not to fall into the IWOG you carelessly picked a bad date so your whole argument is invalid trap).
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bob2356 says
I didn't pick one small currency, you did. 30% isn't real unless you pick a small currency. I introduced the dollar index which is a far more legitimate way to measure the dollar because it represents the vast majority of world transactions.
I'm not always right, but in this case it appears that you needed to be right. Since posted, the dollar has risen from the 73s to nearly 76 and the trend is up up up.
How is this possible while printing is still going on unless the devaluation is having very little effect? Isn't that what I said from the beginning? Isn't that what you jumped on?
bob2356 says
That's WAY off. We're looking at the three year because that's the time period when huge amounts of money was printed. Extending it to 5 years isn't valid because it's not what the argument is about. You wanted to examine if devaluation of the dollar via printing was causing the value of the dollar to drop worldwide. Data from 2006 and 2007 doesn't mean anything. Your baseline needs to be during a time right before people might reasonably believe the country would start a huge printing program. The earliest sign of major trouble was the collapse of Bear Stearns in 2008.
75 plus 10% is 82.5, a level which only occurs during three quarters in the last three years.
During the other 9 quarters (75% of the time) the dollar was trading at or below 82.5.
Just eyeballing it, I would estimate the three year average is around 80. About 6 quarters are above 80 and 6 quarters are below 80. This puts a 6% drop at 75.2. Now that the index is all the way to 75.8 it's closer to 5%.
Am I just trying to be right, or has the printing of trillions of U.S. dollars not really done much? I'm pretty sure the data says it hasn't done much.
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HousingWatcher says
Illegal immigrants are not the once who will be levying taxes, SB653 allows localities create their own taxes. Just because there are many corporations that are against SB653 does not mean SB653 is right. I am a part owner of a corporation, most businesses are a form of a corporation, thats what America is. It's the only way to be protected from the sue-happy schmucks.
FYI here:
http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/Bills/SB_653/20112012/
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iwog says
What was the big stimulus was the rise in CMDEBT . . .
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CMDEBT
I don't know anything but I've heard that VELOCITY OF MONEY is just as important as the MONEY SUPPLY in determining inflationary pressure.
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Troy says
CONTEXT! ........done much with regards to sinking the value of the dollar in the currency market.
I'm pretty sure all that printing saved us temporarily from a depression.
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Burbank, CA
iwog says
The operative word is "temporarily." When it eventually hits, and it surely will, this depression is going to be incredibly ugly. Overall debt has increased dramatically, unemployment has not improved, and the dollar has been debased, setting up a perfect financial storm. I hate to say it (not really, I somewhat like being right, although I wish I was wrong in this case), but, I said this was going to happen all along. The "depression" was only postponed, and the Fed & Obama Administration's policies have set the table for a much worse depression that will last longer than the Great Depression.
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Santa Cruz, CA
The best solution to the problem is to encourage economic activity that increases the value of capital. The increase of productivity via innovation should be encouraged, and exporting of innovation should be discouraged. Taxation should focus on consumption and less on capital.
Let South Korea pay our army to be there, or leave. Inform China that because it is arming N. Korea, and this military threat costs us a ton of dough to protect South Korea, we immediately will impose a tariff on China goods equal to 2x the cost of our military protection of South Korea.
Let Germany pay our army to be there, or leave.
Extract the 285 trillion cubic feet of gas under the USA and go after the oil off California, Florida, and in Alaska.
Tax earnings for social security, no limit.
Change our social security to a Chile style true pension.
Outlaw nonsense like "cash for clunkers" tax credits for buying houses, etc.
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"Change our social security to a Chile style true pension."
You support a pension system put in place by a murderous dictator?
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/angle-copy-chile-and-pinochet-to-privatize-social-security.php
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"SB653 allows localities create their own taxes."
Which they already do now. Like school taxes. Property taxes.
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HousingWatcher says
They currently cannot create more taxes such as income taxes, taxes on goods and services. This bill wouldn't be up for a vote if it did nothing new.
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RayAmerica says
The reason it's only temporary is because reforms were not implemented to reverse the gigantic wealth disparity we have in this country.
The only reason it's going to crash at all is because people like you don't understand how a Monopoly game ends. It has nothing to do with the strength or weakness of the dollar. Weimar Germany was a red hot economy with full employment. After a depression, (the entire world was in a depression) Germany FAR QUICKER THAN THE UNITED STATES recovered and became a world superpower.
History sucks, don't it.
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iwog says
Once again, Iwog expresses his admiration for the Germany that followed the Weimar Republic. What Iwog conveniently fails to mention is that this "world superpower" was a totalitarian dictatorship run by that guy with the funny mustache. He also fails to mention that this same totalitarian dictator played Keynesian economics with the German economy, which led directly to his military expansion into eastern Europe, which then evolved into WW 2. You're right about history Ducky. You should try studying it sometime.
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Admiration? Ray you have a knack for simply making up whatever you want to be true, then you post it without the slightest bit of shame or regret.
You're a true "conservative".
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Burbank, CA
iwog says
iwog says
Hitler had a "miracle" economy based entirely on that fraud John Maynard Keynes' false theory of economics. Remember all the public works programs, like the Autobahn, that Hitler used to put people back to work with (sound familiar?)? When Hitler's Minister of Finance informed him that his inflationary policies would eventually bankrupt Nazi Germany, Hitler fired him. Being forced with the real possibility of his fraudulent economic policies being exposed (much of his political career was based on "curing" Germany's economy), Hitler played his military card (sound familiar?) on Eastern Europe. It’s a well known historical fact that Germany became a "world superpower" because of Hitler's enormous buildup of the military. Now that is something to admire, Iwog.
You're a true "liberal."
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RayAmerica says
Just curious-what exactly do you find fraudulent in the theory? You're not alone in that opinion... Please be specific. See if you can explain it without the use of insults--try something new.
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tatupu70 says
First, Keynesian economics fails to understand the necessary natural forces in an economy, and therefore attempts to manipulate those forces by the infusion or removal of money from the economy through a variety of means. Economies periodically need to be cleansed of abuses, but with politics, which cannot be separated from Keynesian economics, this is nearly impossible. For example: let's say that an economy is naturally slowing after a prolonged economic expansion. During that expansion, confidence is running high, which further promotes more risk in the way of excessive borrowing that will be used by businesses to expand in order to keep up with the PERCEIVED future demand. During a boom period such as this, all kinds of abuses take place by lenders and borrowers alike (i.e. recent housing bust) because they feel there is "no end in sight" for their prosperity. However, as is always, another business cycle kicks into gear and (for a variety of reasons) the economy begins to slow. If allowed to take its natural course, the economy will go into a recession, which will naturally cleanse the system of the past abuses, and the economy will typically recover to start the slow, natural expansion all over again. Instead of allowing this natural, cleansing process to proceed, the Keynesian (and the administration) determines that the business cycle can be suspended with the infusion of "new" money by lowering interest rates. Why? In order to keep the economy humming along (with all its abuses) during the current administrations term in office. (Nothing spells quicker doom for a leader of a nation than a prolonged, economic downturn with high unemployment, i.e. deep recession). As the economy continues to slide, the Keynesian continues to lower interest rates in order to artificially prop up the falling economy. Japan is the perfect example of this; after a long recession and the real estate bubble, etc. Japan's central bank eventually lowered interest rates to 0%. The economy still did not recover and the recession was therefore prolonged even longer due to the fact that the very abuses that CAUSED the downturn in the first place, remained and were further expanded. In short, Keynesian Economics foolishly attempts to manipulate the natural forces of a free market, which, in the long run, makes the economy that much weaker. The USA is following Japan in lock step fashion. By doing so, we are debasing our currency, increasing our exposure to insurmountable debt, encouraging continued reckless economic behavior, while not solving anything in the process. I could go on, but will stop here .... Does that answer your question?
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Ray--
You don't really understand Keynesian economics. The point is to level off the booms and the busts. Keynesians don't desire to suspend the business cycle--they want to lessen the severity of the booms and busts. A Keynesian would act to prevent the the abuses you speak of during a boom period...
There is nothing artifical about lowering interest rates during a recession. Interest rates will naturally be low--there is little demand for capital (loans). "Interest rates" in a generic sense aren't set by the Fed anyway.
You talk a lot about cleansing and natural forces. What exactly do you mean? It's usually just a matter of reducing inventories. There's not a mysterious puppet master working behind the scense...
Let me ask you this--you seem to think that business cycles are inevitable. Why? Why do we have to have booms and busts? Don't you agree that the frequency and severity of booms and busts has decreased over time?
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Ray, for socalists, democrats, progressives, liberals (you know those with documented brain damage), taxes are never high enough. Ask any of them this question: "How much tax is enough?" You'll never get an intelligent answer.
Todays book: Liberty Defined, Dr. Ron Paul
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Alameda, CA
Taxes are high enough when they can cover government expenditures (i.e. not run a deficit). One can make allowances for short term exceptions during recessions and wars, as long as any shortfall is covered by taxing enough to generate a surplus afterwards. So obviously taxes are NOT high enough, and haven't been for a long time. Anything else is just rationalization.
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bdrasin says
I agree. If taxes actually covered what we spend, then we never would have allowed spending to get so far out of hand. This is so obviously true, especially since progressive tax rates hit the rich the hardest and they are the ones who make the government spending decisions.
The corrupt death spiral "borrow and spend" trajectory we are on can be traced back to the 1980s. But hey, don't worry, be happy.
When famous republicans said "deficits don't matter" what they really meant is that they don't matter to them personally, in this lifetime.