WatchHere's a partial list of what is often referred to as "hidden taxes," none of which were in existence 100 years ago. While looking at this list, can you honestly say we are not paying too much in taxes?
Federal income tax
State tax
property tax
gasoline tax
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Tangible Taxes
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
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Has anyone seen Iwog? I thought for sure he would post some leftist dribble like: "this idiotic post only proves we (i.e. you) aren't paying your fair share."
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"...and if you get to cold I'll tax the heat,
cause I'm a Democrat!
Woah oh oh a democrat."
♫♫♫
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So your point is ... that we should have a single tax, ie on income, and nothing else? To simplify things? Personally, I think the way taxes are collected from a variety of sources is fine. I can avoid the cigarette tax by ... not smoking. Same for many of those (IE don't pay your taxes late and you won't get extra charges).
It would be difficult, but this post would be much more interesting if you detailed your own taxes (including all of the above) and presented a total tax rate.
Aside from that, though, I am much more concerned with where my tax dollars are spent. I'd be one happy citizen if every wealthy banker who made a buck off the financial collapse was sent back to square one - with their assets seized and used to repay the debt they helped create. After that, reducing military spending would be my priority.
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Matt.BayArea says
He doesn't have a point, he's a rebel without a cause.
Try asking him specifically what we should cut to reduce taxes, and he can't even explain how to cover the deficit let alone cross the line into a surplus which would be required to give tax cuts.
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they'll tax anything they can. As long as you make money, somebody high up wants his piece of your pie.
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iwog says
Specifically, what cuts would you make ... if any?
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Obama Administration floats plan to tax the number of miles driven .... I'm not making this up:
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/159397-obama-floats-plan-to-tax-cars-by-the-mile
PS: read the entire article. For those on the Left, that means, don't stop at the Administration's denial of the plan.
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Emeryville, CA
We probably do get taxed enough, it's just that the Repugnican'ts keep spending it all!
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Matt.BayArea says
I did the math and I don't think a land value tax can really cover the costs of modern government. . .
Total spending is $6.1T this year.
If we keep FICA and medicare as they are (and we should), actual government is $4.4T/yr. That's $36,000 per household, $3000/mo.
If we get rid of corporate income tax and substitute a flat tax of 10% on our $11T national income, we'd see $1.1T in revenue, leaving a need for $3.3T.
There are 30,000 sq miles of urban land (cities over 100,000), ~20 million acres. Take about half as marginal (untaxable), that leaves ~10 million acres of average urbanity. At a $1M/acre land value and 5% millage, that would be $500B in revenue. Take another 10% -- 2 million acres -- as primo urban land @ $5M/acre, that's another $500B/yr in revenue @ 5% millage.
There are 3.8 million square miles of land in the US, 2.4 billion acres. Take half as marginal (untaxable), and 40% as basic ag land with a $200/acre rent, that would be another $200B in LVT.
The 10% remaining would be interesting, since this is the prime land that has generally quite high valuation. We're talking forests, coastal properties, etc. Perhaps 1% of this 10% -- 2.4 million acres -- is worth $5M/acre, for a tax yield of $300B/yr (at 2.5% millage)
The remaining ~240 million acres might have a valuation of $50,000 acre, at 2.5% pa that would yield another $300B/yr.
So that's $1.8T in LVT. Still need another $1.5T. . . .
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Spoken like a true liberal who never hated a tax (I don't have to pay)? You are one funny man! I know this is the internetz and there is no restriction on who can view this, but I really wonder if he reaches anyone with his .... (I'm trying very hard to keep it clean) ... opinions.
FYI - I happen to pay quite a few taxes:) Including those on the list. And I'm quite happy to - I use so many services that have to be paid for. Why not by me? I use them!
Is this the part where I'm supposed to say some (untrue) broad statement that insults conservatives? Ok, I'll try. Spoken like a typical conservative - wants all the good things of our modern society, but doesn't want to pay for it (let the poor pay with their sweat and blood!)! AND wants to wage war across the world to spread fundamentalist christian idealogy! I'm not very good at this, sorry. I'll practice.
Well, I won't take any more of your time - I know you bloodless-hearted conservatives have to spend most of your time biting the necks of poor children in order to feed your satanic rituals, and I would hate to let hyperbole of any sort get in the way.
PS Sorry to any other conservatives, I didn't mean it.
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RayAmerica says
Does it really matter? I've just demonstrated you're complaining about taxes when you don't have a solution. It's your thread!
You don't even have a fictional solution do you.
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iwog says
Your "solution" is NOT to cut spending because, as you say, it won't provide a "surplus." In true liberal form, your only solution is to raise taxes, without addressing cuts in spending. You fail to understand how ALL governments operate, i.e. that they will ALWAYS spend (eventually) what they take in. Raising taxes is not the answer because government growth will not remain stagnant. With more tax revenue collected, it will simply grow commensurate to that revenue. The beast must be starved and the only way to do that is to cut its revenues in order to force them to live within their means.
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RayAmerica says
Yeah, except that's total bullshit since I already detailed what I'd do and it includes spending cuts.
Stop making up my positions and actually answer a question for once in your corrupt life. Do you have a solution or not?
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iwog says
I've stated my solution numerous times on this site.
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RayAmerica says
Really? Then it should be mind-numbingly easy to post a link to your explanation.
That is unless you're afraid I might actually analyze your "solution" to see if it's a fantasy or not.
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iwog says
marcus says
Seriously Ray, enlighten us with what should have been done. Please keep in mind that states and municipalities, and the fed were and are all basically broke, so any policy that decreases economic activity (and hence tax revenues) has to be very well explained.
RayAmerica says
I believe you have, or at least others have, asked me this question in a variety of ways before. As I have stated before, I strongly believe we need to cleanse the economy of a lot of wrongheaded policies that have led us, over several decades (if not longer) to this mess that we find ourselves in.
If I were King: End the colonialism that has become U.S. foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. End our “Israel or nothing” approach to the region. Close down the vast majority of armed forces bases throughout the world and bring home the troops. End both involvements in Iraq and Afghanistan. Drastically cut military spending, including a dramatic reduction in the size of our Navy. Drastically cut government programs across the board. Eliminate entirely the Department of Education. End virtually all welfare for able bodied recipients. If they are going to be on the public dole, they’ll have to perform some type of public service to earn it, even if that means cleaning parks, streets, etc. Do whatever is necessary to balance the budget and begin to reduce the debt. Immediately end ALL earmarks connected to legislation. Drastically reduce foreign aid. Bring government salaries more in line with the private sector. Enforce all illegal immigration laws, particularly when it comes to employers. Illegal immigrants that are taking jobs from American citizens must stop. Work to end the “anchor baby” laws that currently exist. Secure the border, in particular the southern border with Mexico. By becoming less dependent on foreign loans in which to operate our government, we will be able to effectively negotiate trade policies that are fair and balanced. Develop an energy policy with long term goals, especially alternative fuels, along with a vast expansion of nuclear energy plants. Reinstate the Glass Stegal Act. End all bailouts with taxpayers’ money to banks, Wall Street, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc. Allow the housing market to cleanse itself via natural market forces without government support or intervention. Cut taxes (along with capital gains, estate taxes, etc.) commensurate with the cuts in the size of government spending AFTER the budget is balanced and the national debt is vastly reduced.That’s just off the top of my head …
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=534025
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To the above post, Iwog would counter with "just raise taxes." LOL
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47 male
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No, I've already answered the above post. If you get everything you want, you still run a $1 trillion rapidly expanding deficit. Your "solution" is a joke and demonstrates the fact that you have no understanding of the problem.
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elliemae's website
Rayray asks if we pay enough taxes. I do. He obviously doesn't.
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iwog says
I got it. Your solution is to keep spending at the levels we are currently at, and raise taxes in order to encourage more government expansion. Of course, in the past, you've also recommended printing fiat money on a massive scale (QE 1, 2, 3, 4, into infinity), so much so, that it would reach YOUR desired HYPERINFLATION. The fact that such a scenario would wipe out all pensions, savings accounts, retired people on fixed incomes, etc. is "collateral damage," right? And then you have the audacity to call my solution a "joke?"
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RayAmerica says
Please stop calling it a solution without quotes. You don't offer a solution, in fact I proved WITH LINKS TO EVERY RELEVANT BUDGETARY ITEM that your "solution" is nothing of the sort. It's an unqualified failure that cannot work and doesn't address the problem at all, yet it's pretty much a match for what all the other Teabaggers are advocating.
My solution is a comprehensive one and actually balances the budget. I want to return our tax rates back to what they were in 1993 and that includes the estate tax. (nothing so radical as 1980, 1970, 1960, or 1950 or as you call it "The American Dark Ages") I want to reform medical care in our country to resemble Canada, where they spend half as much and live two years longer than we do. Finally I want to monetize some of our debt and devalue the dollar in such a way that it redistributes wealth to those who will spend it and create demand and jobs.
Unlike anything you've ever proposed, this would actually work. Furthermore the almost instantaneous improvement to our balance sheet and strong growth in our industry would strengthen the dollar at the same time that controlled devaluation would be weakening it. China has been pursuing this exact same policy and for some strange reason that you could never understand they are NOT turning into Weimar Germany.
THAT is a solution. You don't even comprehend the problem.
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iwog says
Utter, complete nonsense. It will do nothing of the sort. QE1 & QE2 has had no such effect as you claim, but, according to your illogical position, let's do more of the same. LOL
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Alameda, CA
Do we pay enough taxes? Obviously not, in comparison to what we spend, which is the only relevant yardstick. Otherwise we wouldn't have a budget deficit. Duh.
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In two years, Obama has increased the national debt by 50%. The reckless, big spender Bush needed 8 years to accomplish that amazing feat. Iwog's "solution" is to give more money to these reckless big spenders by dramatically increasing taxes. He also advocates the insane policy of monetizing the debt by massive printing of U.S. Dollars. How does that affect you? By creating the "silent tax" of inflation. Everyone that has any investment or savings that is denominated in U.S. Dollars will suffer accordingly. People like Iwog WANT hyperinflation because Iwog is heavily in debt with his real estate investment properties (by his own admission). What he wants is an inflated U.S. Dollar so that he can pay off his fixed real estate loans with cheap, hyper inflated currency. A diminished dollar rewards those that are heavily in debt (Iwog), and punishes those that have savings, investments, pensions, etc. denominated in U.S. Dollars.
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47 male
Lafayette, CA
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Ray, stop running and provide a plan to balance the budget.
Your earlier attempt was a silly joke and barely even scratched the surface. Do you have an actual idea or was I correct when I said you don't even understand the problem let alone offer any solutions?
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RayAmerica says
It did exactly what I claimed. It monetized the debt. Oh sure the debt does technically still exist on the fed's books, but the effect is still the same.
Why would you claim something isn't true when it very clearly is true? QE2 printed $600 billion that was NOT BORROWED from elsewhere, and distributed it via entitlements to people who spend it. Doesn't it bother you that you have so poor a grasp on the economy that you can't even see this simple truth?
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Ray, you still have not listed the spending you would cut in order to close the budget deficit. Even with your porposed spending cuts liek defense and earmarks, you would still have over $1 trillion in deficits. But don't worry, you can use this tool to balance the budget. Once you balance the budget, post a link to your proposal so we can all see it:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html
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HW, thanks for the link.
I know nobody asked me, but here is my solution ;-)
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=821vj419
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iwog says
This comes from the wannabe "economist" Iwog the Duck. The very same Duck that thought it would be a great idea to print up tons of paper money and distribute it to every American "in order to get the economy moving again." And how much did he propose to simply give away? First it was $25,000. Then he amended it to $50,000. Why don't we just all use Monopoly money and save all the paper and ink?
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Monopoly money uses paper and ink too...
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HousingWatcher says
That's some scary browser based software there. Ray would do it if he could only figure out how to work it.
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RayAmerica says
This is always what it comes down to with you Ray. No facts, no examples, no solutions, no radical plan to balance the budget, no rebuttal, nothing but a personal attack.
It's time to admit you don't know how to fix the economic problems of the United States and start listening to people who do. I wouldn't really care, however your votes and the votes of people like you are destroying the country.
The Republican budget contained $80 billion in cuts in a $1.5 trillion deficit, and their reckless tax cuts signed by Obama reduced revenue by more than that. Neither party can fix this, but at least the Democrats are eventually going to do the right thing and sacrifice the dollar. Given a long enough leash, the Republicans are going to strip you of your Social Security, end your Medicare, and dump you in the street if it would put another dollar in a billionaire's pocket.
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@Ray
>"If I were King: End the colonialism that has become U.S. foreign policy, especially in the Middle East. End our “Israel or nothing” approach to the region. Close down the vast majority of armed forces bases throughout the world and bring home the troops. End both involvements in Iraq and Afghanistan. Drastically cut military spending, including a dramatic reduction in the size of our Navy."
You do realize that if someone like McCain or Palin were president, this would have about as much chance of happening as $%$%&$...
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I think besides out of control spending, the other big problem is that about half the people out there don't pay income taxes. Everybody should pay something.
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iwog says
I hear Zimbabwe wasn't that fun to live in when their currency got devalued.
If our currency devalues, we will not be the financial powerhouse of the world. That would be a disaster.
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ChrisLA says
We aren't Zimbabwe.
In case you haven't noticed, even trillions of dollars in printing hasn't moved the value of the dollar much and interest rates are some of the lowest in the world. In fact in the last few days the dollar has rebounded (again) after failing to even surpass previous lows.
The United States devaluation has nothing on Japan, yet Japan didn't turn into Zimbabwe either. Doesn't it bother you that real world examples totally contradict your narrative?
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American in Japan says
Of course. That's precisely why the American people have to wake up to the fact that there is a power structure in place that is in complete control of our foreign policies. I just finished an excellent, short book by Chalmers Johnson; "Dismantling of Empire: America's Last Best Hope." I highly recommend this book. BTW, Johnson definitely leans to the left. What we really have in this country is an Oligarchy in which both parties have morphed into one, elite ruling class. Have you noticed Obama (Mr. Hope & Change) has not only kept intact Bush's foreign policies, but has actually expanded them?
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iwog says
Neither party has the political will to fix this. On that you are correct. Your glee over the sacrifice of the dollar is astounding (but not for you).
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RayAmerica says
There isn't any other way out Ray. Isn't it about time that you stopped acting like a child and started looking at THE ENTIRE PROBLEM instead of small parts of it?
You're stuck in this incredibly pointless logic loop:
Ray: We're screwed because the dollar is going to crash.
Iwog: That's the only way out.
Ray: We'll be Zimbabwe and you suck.
Iwog: What would you do?
Ray: I'd cut spending by an amount that can't possibly balance the budget.
Iwog: That would do nothing.
Ray: So what would you do?
Iwog: I'd do X, Y, and Z and print money.
Ray: We're screwed because the dollar is going to crash.
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iwog says
Iwog fails to understand (this is really getting old) that EXCESSIVE spending got us into this mess, and yet, he thinks making massive cuts in spending will "do nothing."
I've consistently said this is a long term process that will take years to correct. Iwog just wants to trash the dollar by printing money. His approach is so incredibly simplistic, I'm having a hard time believing he's serious. Iwog .... are you one of the dreaded "trolls?"
For a mature look into why we can't simply "inflate our way out of our debt crisis," check this out:
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/03/if-we-cant-inflate-our-way-out-of-debt.html