comments by bob2356

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Sat, 13 Feb 2016, 4:13am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 1

zzyzzx says

bob2356 says

you still working on providing your expertise on what will work to fix health care in America? Still waiting,

Upfront pricing will help tremendously. Obviously only a potential partial solution since it only covers non-time sensitive procedures. That and negotiated drug prices as per Trump. Those two, along with malpractice reform would be a good start.

Not even a partial solution since almost everyone pays through insurance and isn't price sensitive anyway. You left out all the other big ticket items. You need to go look at where the money for health care actually goes.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Fri, 12 Feb 2016, 11:33am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 2

Ironman says

bob2356 says

People always line up for free shit.

Ever watch the Free Shit leeches in Costco for the food samples?

So where are all the lines of people getting their free colonoscopy in canada?

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Fri, 12 Feb 2016, 11:28am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 3

Ironman says

Quigley says

government enforcing a PATENT that restricts other companies from making the same product and selling it for less!

Pharma companies need these patents, otherwise there would be extremely limited NEW drug development in the country. A pharma isn't going to spend BILLIONS to try and develop a new drug, only to have it stolen away and turned into a generic because they don't have patent protection.

Sorry but that's not how it works. The vast majority of basic research on NEW drugs are with public money. A big chunk of pharma research spending is to protect patents they already have. Turning drug x into drug xl with a new patent even though it's the same basic drug. Pharma doesn't even spend all the much on research, about 15% of revenue. Less than marketing or profits.
http://truecostofhealthcare.net/the_pharmaceutical_industry/
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/10/news/la-heb-drug-development-taxpayers-20110210

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Fri, 12 Feb 2016, 8:40am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike (1)     Comment 4

thunderlips11 says

Thorp's assumptions are out there.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-himmelstein/kenneth-thorpe-bernie-sanders-single-payer_b_9113192.html

When Canada implemented universal coverage and abolished copayments and deductibles there was no change in the total number of doctor visits; doctors worked the same number of hours after the reform as before, and saw the same number of patients.

But, but, but why aren't canadians lining up for their free daily colonoscopy? Heart surgery? Chemo? It's free shit they are giving away up there. People always line up for free shit. Rush Limbaugh and ironbrain both said so. What is wrong with those people?

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Fri, 12 Feb 2016, 8:34am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 5

Ironman says

Emory University economist Kenneth Thorpe says the proposal also underestimates the cost of having the government provide doctors' services, hospitalization, long-term care, and vision and dental car

So much for emory university economists. Medicare provides health care insurance, not health care. Most of the single payer systems public health systems around the world provide health care. Amazing that no one in America understands the difference. No one here understands the problem, never mind the solution.

Hey cic are you still working on providing your expertise on what will work to fix health care in America? Still waiting, will be forever.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Fri, 12 Feb 2016, 8:13am PST   Share   Quote   Like (2)   Dislike     Comment 6

lostand confused says

Not really. Put yourself in their shoes. You get millions and millions of contributions from them. You pass this law and lose your millions. jeb the shrub has spent close to 100 million bucks in super pac money -you think they won't demand their pound of flesh if he wins? Follow the money!!

Campaign contributions are just concerned citizens exercising their right to free speech. Politicians are never influenced by campaign contributions or any other type of money thrown at them. Really it's true, even saint hillary says so. A bunch of 600k checks don't matter at all.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Fri, 12 Feb 2016, 6:39am PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike (1)     Comment 7

Patrick says

the horror is is that the government is forbidden by law from negotiating drug prices, and that law was purchased (yes, purchased) with outsized profits from drug sales. it's self-perpetuating corruption, but that's exactly how our system works right now. the real solution is publicly funded elections.

A law brought to us by george “I’ve abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system” bush. When conservatives say free market it only means free to the seller.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Thu, 11 Feb 2016, 8:07pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 8

Ironman says

In other words 300,000 people may have died while waiting for your utopian care model.

No, that's not what the OIG report said at all. But don't let anyone say that facts got in the way of a good headline at CNN, especially since they wrote their story from fiorina's campaign speech.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Thu, 11 Feb 2016, 3:53am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 9

tatupu70 says

Do you honestly think others on this board agree with you? Let me dispel that notion--everyone else here has a grasp of Econ 101 and understands how supply and demand work.

If you were so good at econ 101 then why are you missing half of the supply and demand equation? The demand for houses depends on how many people live in an area. Your assertion makes the assumption the the number of people living in an area i static. People can move into an area faster than houses can be built increasing the demand even though the supply is increasing. Or out of an area like detroit.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Wed, 10 Feb 2016, 2:11am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 10

Dan8267 says

That flight was still better than a Spirit Airlines flight.

I fly Spirit regularly with no problems. Read the simple rules and follow them. Do everything online, do it yourself or you pay for the service you use. Spirit doesn't have extra planes or sister carriers so a cancelled flight will delay you big time. Duh, that's how they fly so cheap. The people thinking that somehow they will get the same service for half the cost get a lot of really rude and expensive shocks when they fly spirit. All US domestic carriers suck, really suck. At least spirit is cheap and sucks.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Wed, 10 Feb 2016, 1:41am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 11

Ironman says

Tenpoundbass says

Though I do think Trump will get along with anyone, IF THEY ARE NICE!

What would President Trump have done to the Iranians that captured the two navy boats and 10 sailors yesterday and used them for Iranian propaganda?

Blustered, stomped his feet, maybe even combed his hair. That's about it.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Wed, 10 Feb 2016, 1:35am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 12

Ironman says

Blurtman says

"His love of farm animals is over the line."

You talking about Dan and Bob?

You really need a life that doesn't revolve around your bovine harem. As the world's foremost authority on the subject could you give us some insight into how it feels to be a loser?

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Tue, 9 Feb 2016, 8:30am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 13

Ironman says

Ironman says

The 1988 Medicare home-care benefit was supposed to cost $4 billion by 1993, but the actual cost was $10 billion, because many more people participated than expected.

The government doesn't do a census and doesn't know how many people are in a certain age group? How does the government "miss" this projection by 150% in only FIVE years?

Go look up Duggan v. Bowen 1988. A federal judge ordered Medicare to take off it's administrative controls on the program. That's how you miss a projection by 150%. The WSJ didn't mention this case? Shocking, simply shocking I tell you.

Ironman says

You still want to split hairs on percentages or get to the center of the problem that government SUCKS at ANY program they try to administrate. If they can't get it right when dealing with 1/6 to 1/7 of the population (seniors), how do you and Tatty boy think they can get it right when they administer "Medicare for All" for 320 MILLION people?

No the government doesn't suck at any program they try to administrate. So if private insurance is so great at adminstering why is the cost of health care in the US double all the government programs around the world?

I don't think they will get it right with Medicare for all. I've posted that on your threads at least a dozen times. Medicare is a poor program to base single payer on. If you worked in health care all your life then you should be aware of a field called geriatrics. They can help you with managing your dementia. Check it out, I'm concerned for you.

Why are you sweating this? The oligarchs that rule the health care industry, the people you worship, will never let anything cut into their astronomical profits. Any programs that come out will simply be thinly disguised public risk private profit corporate welfare like obamacare and medicare D.

bob2356 says

bob2356 says

bob2356 says

So since you are so sure what won't work feel free to share what will. Oh yes I know, free market, more profits. It's worked so well already.

Still waiting and will be forever.

Still waiting and will be forever.

Still waiting and will be forever.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Tue, 9 Feb 2016, 3:58am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 14

Ironman says

Translation: I can't dispute what was posted because it was verified by two sources, so I'll just resort to name calling.

The MAIN point being, since you decided to gloss over the entire thread, is that government programs virtually NEVER come in close to projections,

LOL. Verified by two sources? A picture from who knows where and a subscription only article from the WSJ that no one can read? What a joke. That's supposed to be some type of unimpeachable gold standard for proof? Contest the numbers in the article I posted, I'll wait even though it will be forever. . Being off by a factor of 700% or more like some of your "chart" isn't considered by normal people to be a valid talking point even within the alternative universe of the right wingnut echo chamber.

I didn't gloss over anything. I'm saying your numbers are crap, not that government programs don't grow. Your "chart" compares apples to oranges, it's too bad you don't have the math skills to understand that. Government programs do grow for many reasons. By inflation, by congress expanding them, by population expansion, etc., etc.. Who in 1965 when medicare was passed would have projected a decade of double digit inflation?

bob2356 says

bob2356 says

So since you are so sure what won't work feel free to share what will. Oh yes I know, free market, more profits. It's worked so well already.

Still waiting and will be forever.

Still waiting and will be forever.

Ironman says

bob2356 says

Ah yes the farm animal reference.

What other reason would you have for being such a fucking cranky old bastard?

You and dan are the ones that post about farm animal sex (and excrement, and gay sex) all day every day. I respond on occasion after you totally run out of argument and resort to posting about farm animal sex because you have nothing else to offer. Anyone obsessing about the subject as much as you do must be speaking from extensive personal experience.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Tue, 9 Feb 2016, 3:14am PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 15

Dan8267 says

I don't give a shit about your opinion, and that's why I'm more mature than you. Some day you'll realize that you don't have to be grumpy in order to be mature.

I'm devastated. My world is at an end now. After dinner I'll faint.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Mon, 8 Feb 2016, 9:33pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 16

Strategist says

bob2356 says

Venezuela is a perfect example of the third world dysfunctional government with out of control corruption, nothing else. Are you really willing to stand with ironstupid on not being able to grasp this?

That dysfunction is caused by a socialist dictator. I think you need help in grasping reality.

The dysfunction existed long before chavez. It's a function of widespread endemic corruption that is common throughout third world countries socialist or capitalist, which is a big reason why they are the third world. The countries of the first world socialist or capitalist don't have widespread government corruption which is a big reason they are the first world. That is the reality.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Mon, 8 Feb 2016, 9:24pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 17

Ironman says

Would you prefer the numbers come from the Wall Street Journal instead?

Sorry no subscription. Looks like the WSJ aka the republican daily rag is recycling the same bogus numbers to me. The WSJ has certainly never ever printed an article that was a political hack job, Never, really, not ever.

Address the issue, don't post the same crap numbers back from a different source. Your chart is bullshit.Oh right, you can't address the issue because it involves third grade math which is far beyond you. .

bob2356 says

So since you are so sure what won't work feel free to share what will. Oh yes I know, free market, more profits. It's worked so well already.

Still waiting and will be forever.

Ah yes the farm animal reference. The signal that your sub microscopic intellect has once again been all used up.

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Mon, 8 Feb 2016, 9:10pm PST   Share   Quote   Like (1)   Dislike     Comment 18

Dan8267 says

However, there is a difference between childish and uncreative insults like the one you just flung and a witty putdown to ridicule those deserving it because of their atrocious behavior. One day, you may be mature enough to understand this difference, but that day is not today.

How would you know anything about maturity? Oh yea right, it's because you post mature things like this.

CIC just shit his pants

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Mon, 8 Feb 2016, 8:51pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike     Comment 19

Strategist says

You certainly cannot equate Bernie with capitalism. Equating him with socialism is more appropriate, and the perfect example of socialism is Venezuela. Venezuela, a oil rich country with no toilet paper, is the perfect example of a failed nation.

Someone who knows nothing about socialism or Venezuela. How cute. So is Norway an oil rich country with lots of toilet paper also a perfect example of socialism? How do you reconcile the two diametrically opposed positions?

Venezuela is a perfect example of the third world dysfunctional government with out of control corruption, nothing else. Are you really willing to stand with ironstupid on not being able to grasp this?

bob2356   befriend (0)   ignore (4)   Mon, 8 Feb 2016, 8:23pm PST   Share   Quote   Like   Dislike (1)     Comment 20

Ironman says

tatupu70 says

Do you want more?

Yep, answer this ONE question, if government single payer is the answer and they know how and can control costs, how did this happen?

-

If you actually worked in health care your whole life, which I seriously doubt, then you know this chart is bullshit,. The numbers are nominal not inflation adjusted and the later additions to the programs included are in the actual cost but not the "estimated cost at time of enactment". The estimated cost of any expansion to the programs needs to be added back into the "estimated cost at time of enactment" to make the chart valid. Otherwise it's a one sided accounting entry. But with your total lack of math skills you don't know what this means anyway. Post the source next time along with the methodology, not just a pretty picture from rightwingnut.com. Never going to happen.

Not that you have any interest in actual real numbers or have the capacity to understand them, but medicare part a isn't 7.44 to 1 it's 1.6 to 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/21/jim-demints-claims-about-medicare-cost-estimates-from-1965/ The rest of the chart isn't any better.

So since you are so sure what won't work feel free to share what will. Oh yes I know, free market, more profits. It's worked so well already.

home   top   share   link sharer   users   register   best comments   about   Debt Is Slavery