patrick.net

Jerry Brown....'nuff said.

I'll speak to Prop 13. The change for commercial real estate is a no-brainer, and it's great to hear that it's supported by the majority of voters. This is especially obvious, since it's such an anti-innovation law. If you want to start a new business, you probably have existing competitors. If those competitors are paying a significantly smaller property tax rate than you, because they've owned their property for so long, you'll be at a significant disadvantage.

Of course, the generational externality for home purchasers is even more egregious. Why should the richest generation (that of current retirees) pay 1/10th the property taxes of a family in their twenties living next door. Typical behavior of transferring debt to the young and wealth to the old. Absolutely ridiculous and downright evil.

justwantaniceplacetostay says

Specifically: The surcharge on high earners would be 1 percent for single filers earning more than $250,000 a year; 1.5 percent on incomes over $300,000 and 2 percent on incomes over $500,000. The sales-tax bump would last four years and the income-tax surcharge five years.

There is already a 5% surcharge on the income tax bill and a 1% surcharge (or 11% increase) on income over 1M. This would expand it (higher rate and grabs more people). A 1% tax rate is like a 11% surcharge and a 2% tax rate is like a 22% surcharge.

Might as well simplify thing and just add a tax bracket instead of 9.3% plus surcharge. The lesson is make 249K instead of 250K, because that 1K in income will cost you $2,590 in state tax alone. Shifting of income is easy to control. (1% of 250K + 9.3% of 1K)

In any case, I think taxpayer wants a spending cap/reform first before taxes come into play so these ballot measure will lose. especially in consideration of 2/3 requirement. California lives and die by the stock market as capital gains are treated as ordinary income. You'll find the next budget projection will be significantly better than the last one, and that tax gap all but disappeared and the issue moot.

The other piece of Prop 13, is it requires 2/3rd majority to raise of introduce new tax. Prop 13 is the greatest victory for taxpayer's I can think of. It's a symbolic proposition. (not agreeing or disagreeing) Counties have been generally successful in adding "school" and "police" parcel tax anyway.

SFace says

The other piece of Prop 13, is it requires 2/3rd majority to raise of introduce new tax. Prop 13 is the greatest victory for taxpayer's I can think of. It's a symbolic proposition. (not agreeing or disagreeing) Counties have been generally successful in adding "school" and "police" parcel tax anyway.

Prop 13 is a great victory? Seriously? Maybe if you are a wealthy landlord that owns multiple properties, or if you bought in 1978. For the rest of us, it is a gigantic fleecing and massive transfer of wealth to the older generations.

Counties don't add school parcel taxes. School districts do and when they have difficulty doing so, society suffers. And they require a supermajority, which is basically tyranny by the minority. Why do things have to pass by 66% anyway? Aren't we a democracy where things should pass 50.1% to 49.9%?

Why do you think we are subject to the whims of capital gains in the stock market, and other states who have high spending are not? Those of us stuck with paying for someone else's use of services by having our income taxes and property taxes jacked up to compensate tend to disagree with your analysis.

justwantaniceplacetostay says

Voters support some prop 13 reform atleast for commercial RE.:

Commercial property taxes today include both real and personal.. The state taxes equipment, office furniture and other personal property. Residential tax is limited to only real. So Commercial property owners actually pay far more.

Million dollar + mfg equipment tax... think about it.

Yes, but you can amortize and write off the cost of equipment, furniture, etc on your corporate taxes which balances this out, correct?

Waitingtobuy says

Yes, but you can amortize and write off the cost of equipment, furniture, etc on your corporate taxes which balances this out, correct?

Your thinking of Fed/State tax return, what im talking about is the annual county personal property tax at full unammortized - purchased cost.

http://smcare.org/assessor/bps571.asp

All property used in the course of doing business that is not otherwise exempt.

Examples: (not limited to this list)
•Computers
•Manufacturing Equipment
•Office Furniture
•Copiers
•Fax Machines
•Lab Equipment
•Video Equipment
•Printing Equipment
•Shop Equipment
•Restaurant Equipment

You can well imagine what the PP tax on large operations in the SV is like, on non-mfg companies.
Now imagine what it was like WHEN WE HAD full blown manufacturing running 24/7
with mfg equipment running at $1M a piece.

Sorry, but businesses have more tricks and tools to avoid taxes and reassessments, that most homeowners can't use. Did you see the article a couple months ago about the huge % of companies that pay no taxes?

When the state went from 60% of property tax burden owned by commercial to 60% to individuals, it's a sign that the program is not "fair".

Even capping residential to 2% max increases when inflation is 3% should have been an obvious clue that eventually the tax burden would be seriously out of whack in the long run. Bad math or good hiding of the data must have been rampant back in the 1970's. (and still is now)

Case in point, 40% of users of government programs claim they've never benefited by gov't programs :) (NYtimes article this past week).

Netreality says

Sorry, but businesses have more tricks and tools to avoid taxes and reassessments, that most homeowners can't use. Did you see the article a couple months ago about the huge % of companies that pay no taxes?

For property taxes there are no tricks and tools. Like many Tech and non - tech companies private and public, their whole Income statement and Balance sheet which includes Fixed Assets ( Property plant and Equipment) is independently audited by external party.. CPA firm (Small and Large).

The companies only provide the cost bases that ties out to the audited balance sheet. The counties from various states assesses the amount of tax.

Furthermore, the local and out of state counties every 2-3 years audit CA books and can impose stiff penalties for under payments. If our local companies have out of state property, (GAP, Apple Stores, mfg ) the out of state county will also audit out of state counties from Washington to Maine to Florida. Yes we (Santa Clara Industries) also pay property tax for other states.

So you see there are no tricks, there are many controls over property tax payments. External and state auditors. Besides, property values are provided from the Accounting System Fixed Assets Module of the ERP system and the code cannot be changed so easily as you think.

Drops in Property Tax can well be tied to decline in business activity. Santa Clara County has nearly 25% R&D/MFG facility vacancies. We lost over half or our public companies just over the past 10 years alon. MFG was lost back by early 90s. As such of course property tax has shifted to residential.

justwantaniceplacetostay says

Voters support some prop 13 reform atleast for commercial RE.:
From http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/26/local/la-me-cap-poll-20120126 "One intriguing discovery was that voters apparently favor a major tweak in Proposition 13, considered the third rail of California politics. Asked whether they thought commercial property should be taxed at current market value — which Prop. 13 doesn't allow until it's sold — 60% replied yes."

A company buyes property ( fixed assets - prop plant and equip) at purchase price in 2005, say networking equipment which is (personal). Over the next 5-8 years if it doesnt get replaced, actually losses its 'market value' due to many reasons. However under the current method, its fixed at the higher fixed historical value.

So the whole notion of using market value will actual reduce property tax revenue.

In Maryland Democrat Governor Martin O'Malley wants new higher taxes on everybody making over 100K, 150K for couples.

Basically all the people that want prop 13 messed with are teachers and state workers wanting their gold plated retirements to keep flowing no matter WHAT happens and who gets slammed.

WE NEED massive Entitlement reform first, than we can get a valid number on the average joe that wants to touch prop 13. I don't want to see grandma taxed out of her house so some greedy jerk on the dole can keep pocketing 7000-14000 a month!

I want Prop 13 changed and I am an Internet entrepreneur with an MBA. I paid $9200 in property taxes this year. Not your typical teacher or state worker.

Im tired of paying 9% sales and income tax. I'm also not happy that my kids have 35+ kids in their elementary school classroom. I hate how our roads are 49 out of 50th. And I hate how UCs and CSUs are hiking their tuition 20-30%/year.

I also believe if you change Prop 13 for commercial and residential, you could lower the rate from 1.25% to 1% for everyone, "grandfather" and exempt grandma, and we would still be doing much better than now.

Waitingtobuy says

I also believe if you change Prop 13 for commercial and residential

But it'd drive away well established businesses out of CA(by the way I am NO fan of prop 13). Just a thought.

Waitingtobuy says

And I hate how UCs and CSUs are hiking their tuition 20-30%/year.

Nail Prop 13 to the wall an gutting it isnt the solution...

but here is some insight to ponder on ..

United Auto Workers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Auto_Workers

In the 1990s, the UAW began to focus on new areas of organizing both geographically (in places like Puerto Rico) and in terms of occupations, with new initiatives among university staff, freelance writers (through the subsidiary National Writers Union) and employees of non-profit organizations, including workers at Mother Jones Magazine and the Sierra Club who are represented by UAW Local 2103.

The UAW took on the organization of academic student employees (ASEs) working at American universities as teaching assistants, research assistants, tutors, and graders under the slogan "Uniting Academic Workers". As of 2011, the UAW represents more student workers than any other union in the United States of America. Universities with UAW ASE representation include the University of California (UAW Local 2865), California State University (UAW Local 4123), University of Massachusetts (UAW Local 2322), University of Washington (UAW Local 4121), and New York University (UAW Local 2110).

In 2008 the 6,500 postdoctoral scholars ("postdocs") at the ten campuses of the University of California, who combined account for 10% of the postdocs in the nation, voted to affiliate with the UAW, creating the largest union for postdoctoral scholars in the country: UAW Local 5810.

The expansion of UAW to academic circles, postdoctoral researchers in particular, attracted both praise and criticism

OMG we are voluntarily turning into the soviet union!

Our one hope: Ronald Reagan comes back as a zombie during zombieapololypse and fires them all?

Barring that get used to 'most rich people are government employees' becoming slowly more and more true.

thomas.wong1986 says

Waitingtobuy says

And I hate how UCs and CSUs are hiking their tuition 20-30%/year.

Nail Prop 13 to the wall an gutting it isnt the solution...

but here is some insight to ponder on ..

Blaming everything on unions is short-sighted. Most of these schools are in debt because they expand their facilities too much using free money from the f*kers on wall street and now need to pay it off while the state funding is going down. UCB faculty including engineering have had their pay docked and they make the same as a starting software engineer at Google after a Masters degree. So i dont really know where the money is going.

Its the same with the health care system. Financing large expansions with finance-ninja tricks from wall street and now they have to pay huge amounts for their new facilities. It is always easy to prey on idiots to take on big loans whether in housing, education or health care. If the idiots cant pay up the govt will through a bailout.

Also, IMO the whole postdoc system is also a scam for universities to get cheap labor while telling people to sacrifice for the greater good of science or whatever. I almost fell for it myself initially thinking of a postdoc but quickly realized that I can get 3 times higher salary in industry and 5 times more total compensation including bonus than doing a postdoc. During my PhD the advisor had total control of my hours, there was no clear holiday policy, working on papers frequently involved multiple all-nighters close to the deadline and its not in the faculty interest to let a senior student graduate. So I do think ASEs need protection.

Waitingtobuy says

Im tired of paying 9% sales and income tax. I'm also not happy that my kids have 35+ kids in their elementary school classroom. I hate how our roads are 49 out of 50th. And I hate how UCs and CSUs are hiking their tuition 20-30%/year.

I completely agree with this sentiment. If we have taxation it needs to be fair. Grandma only needs one house to live in, so they should remove prop13 for anything other than primary residence as well or have income limits on the benefits just like the Roth IRA etc

Any prop 13 revocation should be accompanied with dropping the sales or state income tax as well.

bubblesitter says

But it'd drive away well established businesses out of CA(by the way I am NO fan of prop 13). Just a thought.

Companies who will be affected by these are probably too weak to generate meaningful employment. All the talent is in the Bay Area and companies cannot leave here easily. Rest of CA not so sure. I would prefer removing benefits in the following order

1. HNW households even in primary residences
2. Low income households in non-primary residences
3. Commercial

Grandmas should have to prove they have nowhere else to live and cannot afford the property tax with the current income.

Waitingtobuy says

I want Prop 13 changed and I am an Internet entrepreneur with an MBA. I paid $9200 in property taxes this year. Not your typical teacher or state worker.

Im tired of paying 9% sales and income tax. I'm also not happy that my kids have 35+ kids in their elementary school classroom. I hate how our roads are 49 out of 50th. And I hate how UCs and CSUs are hiking their tuition 20-30%/year.

I also believe if you change Prop 13 for commercial and residential, you could lower the rate from 1.25% to 1% for everyone, "grandfather" and exempt grandma, and we would still be doing much better than now.

So you want to change something that is not broke to patch up everything else that is?

Here are some possible answers...

1. If you don't like the school class sizes, move to better schools or do something about the emigration issue with school enrollment sizes. Sounds like you can afford to move or do charter school.
2. 1.25% to 1% savings on tax returns for everyone is NOT going to help old people on fixed incomes that get their house reassessed up 1 - 6 hundred thousand. The new property taxes would wipe them out but favor rich and greedy house flippers looking for easy mark. You want to live in Pottersville???
3. "Im tired of paying 9% sales and income tax." Your wrong on both. County (SUT)sales tax in LA is 8.75. And if you are paying only 9% income tax, you must be Mitt's kid.
4. And maybe you can put a curb on the new building construction, salary increases, perks, and the powerful unions at the UC and Cal State campuses. Their constant staff pay raises and increased entitlement short falls don't help lower student costs. In a time when everyone else is cutting back, they keep getting free housing, insane pay raises and compensation packets.

Any prop 13 revocation should be accompanied with dropping the sales or state income tax as well.

They should replace it with the Colorado system (The Tax Payer Bill Of Rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxpayer_Bill_of_Rights) which prohibits governments (state, local, city, school district) from raising taxes without voter approval and requires them to refund collections above increases predicted by population growth and inflation.

The woman who bought my home there enjoys the same reasonable property taxes that I did which usually dropped in real dollars as other people scraped off their old cottages and built expensive modern houses while my 1978 construction depreciated and people buying during the bubble with 60% nominal price increases didn't get screwed by the government, only the banks.

I haven't a clue how they'll ease into it without stomping on people.

PockyClipsNow says

Our one hope: Ronald Reagan comes back as a zombie during zombieapololypse and fires them all?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyKYiJkvg98

ChrisD says

So you want to change something that is not broke to patch up everything else that is?

Here are some possible answers...

1. If you don't like the school class sizes, move to better schools or do something about the emigration issue with school enrollment sizes. Sounds like you can afford to move or do charter school.

The system is broken. California is too dependent on sales and income tax, and not on property, which brings stability. LA County's assessment role went down an entire 1% last year, whereas sales and income tax has plummeted. Makes us way too dependent on the economy.

My kids are in a school with an API of 930. How much better do you want? I want them, and every other kid, to have the same opportunities I had growing up. Is that wrong?

Are you worried about people from Utah (emigrants) or Mexico (immigrants)? There are probably no undocumented immigrants at my kids' school. Even so, education has taken 60% of the cuts and is 40% of the annual budget in CA. There isnt enough revenue in the system, and most immigrants probably pay more in property taxes (rent) and sales taxes than they would in income taxes so them being in the country isn't the issue. There are many illegals in Texas and they don't have the same budget issues, right, according to the "savior" Rick Perry.

ChrisD says

2. 1.25% to 1% savings on tax returns for everyone is NOT going to help old people on fixed incomes that get their house reassessed up 1 - 6 hundred thousand. The new property taxes would wipe them out but favor rich and greedy house flippers looking for easy mark. You want to live in Pottersville???

Granny could be grandfathered and exempt, much like they can be on parcel taxes. Besides, the people most benefitting from Prop 13 are large landholders. That's a scare tactic used by Howard Jarvis.

ChrisD says

3. "Im tired of paying 9% sales and income tax." Your wrong on both. County (SUT)sales tax in LA is 8.75. And if you are paying only 9% income tax, you must be Mitt's kid.

9% state income taxes, not federal.

ChrisD says

4. And maybe you can put a curb on the new building construction, salary increases, perks, and the powerful unions at the UC and Cal State campuses. Their constant staff pay raises and increased entitlement short falls don't help lower student costs. In a time when everyone else is cutting back, they keep getting free housing, insane pay raises and compensation packets.

Building construction comes from a separate fund, not the general fund, which is what tuition is paid into at UCs and CSU. They have frozen salaries for teachers and employees, but amazingly, Mark Yudof gave 20-25% raises to UC administrators and attorneys.

The bottom line is most states are not in as bad shape as California, which has been in a budget crisis since the late 70s, when Prop 13 started. I believe it not only is responsible for our annual budget deficit, but for inflating the housing bubble, and driving businesses out of the state because of high income taxes needed to balance out the swings.

justwantaniceplacetostay says

so they should remove prop13 for anything other than primary residence as well or have income limits on the benefits just like the Roth IRA etc

Exactly...

Waitingtobuy says

The bottom line is most states are not in as bad shape as California, which has been in a budget crisis since the late 70s, when Prop 13 started. I believe it not only is responsible for our annual budget deficit, but for inflating the housing bubble, and driving businesses out of the state because of high income taxes needed to balance out the swings.

No, even after Prop 13, prices fell in early 90s. The budget problem is due to over spending due to the "new reality". The state govt mistakenly believed the "new reality" in the tech boom, and later with housing boom would boost tax revenues with capital gains tax, therefore the state increased spending ignoring BOTH were bubbles and would not last long.

Had the state ignored the tech stock and housing bubbles and kept spending in line within pre-bubble spending (mid 90s) we would not have as deep a problem as today.

The state spends like a drunken sailor.. and needs to sober up.

Waitingtobuy says

Granny could be grandfathered and exempt, much like they can be on parcel taxes. Besides, the people most benefitting from Prop 13 are large landholders. That's a scare tactic used by Howard Jarvis.

What would happen to every homeowner (not just granny)..had we NOT had prop 13 and we had this housing bubble... EVERYONEs tax would increase, and the state would still expand
spending, yet the bubble would end leaving the state with lower tax revenue and back into a deficit. The spending would still continue because they are long term contracts.

Besides, adminstration of market values would not work.

thomas.wong1986 says

What would happen to every homeowner (not just granny)..had we NOT had prop 13 and we had this housing bubble... EVERYONEs tax would increase, and the state would still expand
spending, yet the bubble would end leaving the state with lower tax revenue and back into a deficit. The spending would still continue because they are long term contracts.

Prop 13 is one of the reasons for the bubble. Because property taxes are capped, existing homeowners don't have to suffer through property valuation increases and higher property taxes, but new buyers do. However, in a place like Texas, that has no cap, the higher the valuation, the higher your taxes, putting a damper on demand.

This is explained well here:
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/prop-13-california-housing-lottery-new-home-sales-no-2011-summer-bounce-real-estate/

The benefit of staying in your home to enjoy Prop 13 benefits means less turnover in homes, and therefore less inventory, driving supply down and prices up.

Other states except one have the system like Texas and it tends to work for them. Don't give me that we are the only state that spends...others do as well. We are only special because of Prop 13. We are also broke because of Prop 13.

I'm for renaming Prop 13, the "I got mine, Jack" Proposition.

Waitingtobuy says

Prop 13 is one of the reasons for the bubble. Because property taxes are capped, existing homeowners don't have to suffer through property valuation increases and higher property taxes, but new buyers do. However, in a place like Texas, that has no cap, the higher the valuation, the higher your taxes, putting a damper on demand.

No prop 13 is not one or any reason for the bubble.. because it has NOT changed over the past decades, it has NOT provided any PRICE SUPPORT for bubble years.

If prop 13 is a cause, we certainly would have not had RE prices corrections (declines) as we have seen in 1989-mid 90s and even the corrections today to long term price trends.

There were plenty people even back long long before the the MEGA bubble of today who were screaming about prop 13 being unfairness. They were wrong then, they are wrong today.

It is all a mute point...

Waitingtobuy says

Don't give me that we are the only state that spends...others do as well.

The CA state govt like much of the public wrongly believed the capital gains from both the tech stock bubble of the late 90s and the subsequent home price boom were FUNDEMENTALY long term justified events. So the state increased spending like crazy for the new Boom years.. when the stock and housing bubble popped it they were holding the debt and no revenue.
No .. Texas or any other state didnt fall into the crazy boom bust mentality. Luck them.

You are all missing the point. You've been duped into an argument for and against a symptom of THE greater problem to why this situation exists. Why they give you only two choices. There is a reason for this.

COME ON! The problem is the extreme devaluation of the dollar. EVERYONE should be up in arms about this. Since dollar valuation is allowed to be manipulated the way it is, property "values" should not be USED as a base for taxation. Only idiots would agree with the system to use property "values" as a taxation base when the currency can be and is being manipulated to it's historic and current extent.

We need some other method that will be different for both Residential and Commercial properties. Something that Inflation will also have a limited roll in affecting total intake. It's not just little old seniors on fixed incomes (who are the majority that actually "OWN" their homes as much they can) that suffer under the current system without prop 13 protection. It is those business owners who may also own their properties free and clear less taxation who will have to adjust rents, product pricing, service pricing and the like upwards if taxation on commercial properties are "marked to market". Those who have recently purchased homes/commercial properties are hurt currently by the extreme devaluation of the dollar and the insane purchasing that went on. There needs to be some sort of middle ground where the two will meet to make it somewhat realistic. As well as a cap on state spending expectations from property taxation, that the state and local governments will have to follow ABSOLUTELY!!!

Like I said before, the symptom and the establishment are masking the real PROBLEM. Currency Manipulation. In the current system where they can devalue the purchasing power of the currency to make you pay more in taxes, we are all screwed. Please get it through your heads!

The reason California is broke is not prop 13. The reason is not low tax rates. California is broke because there are millions of illegal aliens here. They are high school dropouts in their native country. They must be 1. medicated 2. educated 3. incarcerated by the California taxpayers.
If you don't know any, or don't see them, you have to do a little traveling maybe.
I lived in Mexico and came to California over 30 years ago. I know plenty of them and I of course speak Spanish. I visit Mexico to see old friends. Almost every person I know in Mexico has relatives living illegally in the USA.
Particularly damaging to California budget is medical care to them. They are almost never insured, and absolutely never buy health insurance for themselves.
What many dear readers do not know is how rich in cash some of them are. I know one guy who's saved up $70K cash, after building a house in Mexico. Another has a ranch in Mexico. A girl I know had stashed $10K in her room and it was stolen and she was very upset because this money would be for an addition to her house in Mexico that she rents out.
You bleeding hearts are all crazy if you think someone deserves your money because they are "just seeking work."
Education through college level is free in Mexico and they are largely high school dropouts.
Brown and his soak the rich tactics will fail. The rich are not so stupid to take being screwed lying down.

Waitingtobuy says

justwantaniceplacetostay says

so they should remove prop13 for anything other than primary residence as well or have income limits on the benefits just like the Roth IRA etc

Exactly...

thomas.wong1986 says

It is all a mute point...

Not to realtors. They want prop 13 to die FAST. Think of all the property that would have to be sold. Think of all the commissions they would make. More fast money to the rich and total pain to the long term home owners. Why even touch prop 13? You are opening a can of worms! As stated Prop 13 is NOT the problem. Sorry, but it worked and still is working just fine. My 98 year old grandma was able to keep and live in her nice Socal Naples home till the day she died. That is why it was passed if people need a reminder.

Also, in the last 15 years we shipped ALL our good jobs overseas to become a flipper driven society. We now have to sleep in the bed we made.

Waitingtobuy says

Prop 13 is one of the reasons for the bubble. Because property taxes are capped, existing homeowners don't have to suffer through property valuation increases and higher property taxes, but new buyers do. However, in a place like Texas, that has no cap, the higher the valuation, the higher your taxes, putting a damper on demand.

Wow, you get it. And, under the current system, there should have been a provision that if you utilize the "equity" that has built up in your home to procure a home equity line of credit, your house should have been re-assessed for tax purposes. Perhaps that had been in place, phantom value of neighboring properties wouldn't have escalated as they did. But as I said in a previous post, the current system is bunk.

clambo says

California is broke because there are millions of illegal aliens here. They are high school dropouts in their native country. They must be 1. medicated 2. educated 3. incarcerated by the California taxpayers.
If you don't know any, or don't see them, you have to do a little traveling maybe.
I lived in Mexico and came to California over 30 years ago. I know plenty of them and I of course speak Spanish. I visit Mexico to see old friends. Almost every person I know in Mexico has relatives living illegally in the USA.

I worked in Latin America, traveled throughout Mexico, and speak Spanish fluently. I know lots of Mexicans, a group of whom are our close friends. They are really hard working people. Since you know Mexico, put yourself in their place...with no job prospects, a drug war killing hundreds of thousands, endemic corruption, but then you have a chance to make your life better. You would be lying if you would say you would hang around to make Mexico a better place. You can continue to blame illegals, but Texas has a lot of illegals and their economy is booming...why? One reason is because they have higher property tax rates and no income taxes (and didn't go through the bubble partly caused by Prop 13). High property tax rates are more stable than depending on high income taxes which prosper and suffer through booms and busts.

I love it how conservatives say they are fiscally responsible, then blow out the budget by giving away massive tax cuts during wartime. Then, they blame it all on Obama, Brown, or whichever governor or president is left to clean up the elephant crap. It's all about the dems spending, until it is the republicans spending and cutting taxes, then it's all OK to throw government money around.

PockyClipsNow says

OMG we are voluntarily turning into the soviet union!

Our one hope: Ronald Reagan comes back as a zombie during zombieapololypse and fires them all?

Barring that get used to 'most rich people are government employees' becoming slowly more and more true.

Ronald Regan back as a zombie? Would anyone know the difference?

GiveMeGiveMe says

Also, in the last 15 years we shipped ALL our good jobs overseas to become a flipper driven society. We now have to sleep in the bed we made.

Good statement that needs to be repeated for some to be reminded where we are today.

Waitingtobuy says

I want Prop 13 changed and I am an Internet entrepreneur with an MBA. I paid $9200 in property taxes this year. Not your typical teacher or state worker.

Im tired of paying 9% sales and income tax. I'm also not happy that my kids have 35+ kids in their elementary school classroom. I hate how our roads are 49 out of 50th. And I hate how UCs and CSUs are hiking their tuition 20-30%/year.

I also believe if you change Prop 13 for commercial and residential, you could lower the rate from 1.25% to 1% for everyone, "grandfather" and exempt grandma, and we would still be doing much better than now.

I agree with all this.

They tried to increase property taxes in oakland this year by $80 and you wouldnt believe the public outrage that ensued. I believe this partly what led to the movement to recall the mayor.