patrick.net

Hahaha.

Good luck Mitt heads (you know who you are).

That's gotta be some painful truth right there. Why don't they just throw in the towel, and save a billion dollars.

I thought they would go with '4 more years of Hope!'
Its positive, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l_z_pHUKajc

FORWARD COMRADE'S, FORWARD!

Iowg, you simply refuse to acknowledge the obvious similarities to big centralized government and the loss of freedom. You are oblivious to history. "It can't happen here" is already well under way. Saying "Oops, it's too late" is already too late.

Thats why true patriots are alarmed and concerned - but not you. SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!!!

Oh but you ignore that the modern liberal agenda's collective causes have undermined the rights of the individual and his growth to adult competitence, undermined the integrity of the family as the primary civilizing and socializing entity for society.

Your liberal agenda has fostered government dependency instead of self reliance, coercive collectivism instead of cooperation and indentured servitude instead of genuine altruism.

Liberalism has polarized the population into waring classes with false claims of victimization and villainy and contrived needs for governmental "rescue".

History has recorded the inevitable result of continuous big government expansion - the loss of individual rights, and liberty right up to and including the loss of life itself. Don't you know ANYTHING about history???

And you think libertarians or conservatives are the "only threat to the country".

You are part of the insidious "enemy within" and are insane.

marcus says

When we start paying for our government, the powerful (and rich) decision makers will make sure it doesn't grow too much.

Honest Abe says

I challange you to reread my post - the one above yours - and disprove any of it.

see leoj707 here

The liberal agenda has fostered government dependency instead of self reliance.

Crony capitalism and terrible tax policy is leading to a shrinking middle class.

Honest Abe is just plain crazy as far as I can tell.

Sure I "get it" if someone thinks Romney might do a better job than Obama and can give reasons why. But the far right is acting on raw fear and not much more.

If we Americans fall for another 4 years of hope and change sloganeering we have no one to blame but ourselves.

FortWayne says

If we Americans fall for another 4 years of hope and change sloganeering we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Quality Auto Repair Since 1979

I a curious what you think of the Ryan budget? Do you really think that it is a better option than 4 more years of Obama?

I am not big fan of Obama and I generally hate being overly fatalistic when it come to who holds office, but all evidence seems to point to a Romney presidency as being the death nail to the American middle class. Sure life will go on, but our socioeconomic structure will resemble that of developing nations more than any other industrialized nation.

Honest Abe says

Thats why true patriots are alarmed and concerned - but not you. SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!!!

That's interesting since SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS started under Reagan. You obviously don't know any history of the last 30 years. The republican administrations have been the ones stripping away rights at every opportunity. Roadblocks for identity papers, roving goon squads in train/airport/rest areas, spying on all communications, locking up citizens with no charges, seizing assets with no charges, etc., etc.. all started under conservative republican presidents.

The fact that Obama hasn't addressed fixing any of these issues shows that the system has reached the tipping point where it doesn't matter who is in office, the slide into police state is unstoppable and rapidly accelerating. Or do you really think Romney (or any of the other dwarfs except Ron Paul) will be the Republican to reverse the trend by giving up government power and restoring constitutional rights? Not very likely, I would say the sun going supernova has a better chance of happening.

Reality doesn't occur very often in your world does it?

bob2356 says

The republican administrations have been the ones stripping away rights at every opportunity. Roadblocks for identity papers, roving goon squads in train/airport/rest areas, spying on all communications, locking up citizens with no charges, seizing assets with no charges, etc., etc.. all started under conservative republican presidents.

Yes, this is the exact system that Abe would like to see in place. How else is he going to identify, roundup and re-educate/expel/execute those that disagree with him.

bob2356 says

The fact that Obama hasn't addressed fixing any of these issues shows that the system has reached the tipping point where it doesn't matter who is in office, the slide into police state is unstoppable and rapidly accelerating.

Yes, and this is one of the things that pisses me off the most about Obama. If I thought that voting Republican would reverse this trend I would do it, but they just seem to want to step on the gas when it come to these things.

leoj707 says

Quite frankly Abe's view of where American government should go probably has more in common with al-Qaeda than most American citizens, liberal or conservative.

I wouldn't go THAT far...

bob2356 says

locking up citizens with no charges, seizing assets with no charges

Has that actually happened? I really don't know, that's why I'm asking.

If so, that's pretty messed up.

I don't mind tighter security at airports after 9-11, but I'm no fan of skipping "due process."

wthrfrk80 says

Has that actually happened? I really don't know, that's why I'm asking.

Here is an example that come right to mind, but I am sure there are better ones.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/04/misdemeanors_can_have_major_consequences_for_the_people_charged_.html

wthrfrk80 says

bob2356 says

locking up citizens with no charges, seizing assets with no charges

Has that actually happened? I really don't know, that's why I'm asking.

If so, that's pretty messed up.

I don't mind tighter security at airports after 9-11, but I'm no fan of skipping "due process."

Asset seizures were originally part and parcel of the "war on drugs" but have become used for many other types of alleged crimes. Asset seizures happens every day. You have to prove the assets were NOT part of the crime to get them back. Good luck hiring a lawyer without any money.

There are any number of federal agencies that can freeze your bank accounts without any kind of warrant or court order. They simply tell the bank to freeze your accounts. The bank doesn't even have to tell you who did it or why.

Look into FINCEN which is a database of financial transactions (banks, insurance companies, financial traders, brokers, etc., etc.) run by the treasury department. Something like 185 federal agencies request records from FINCEN. I didn't even know there were 185 federal agencies, much less that many trolling through the financial records of citizens. One has to ask what legitimate interest do agencies like fish and game have in citizens spending?

Citizens can now be legally held without charges indefinitely as per the 2012 national defense act. It was done before (hamdi/padille/etc.) before but the legal aspects weren't totally clear.

wthrfrk80 says

I wouldn't go THAT far...

Actually the neo-con goal of "starve the beast" is pretty close to Osama bin Laden/al-Qaeda goals.

Bin Laden was very proud of the tactic used against the Soviet Union, and thought that the Afghanistan military money pit for Russia should be credited for the Soviet collapse.

They both have a similar goal:
al-Qaeda - get the US government out of the middle east and be left alone.
Neo-con - get the US government out of the US and be left alone.

They both have different methods of meeting their ends:
al-Qaeda - get the government to overspend on it's middle eastern military missions.
Neo-con - reduce revenue collection to the government, and overspend.

They both want to see the current US government suffer a financial collapse. The difference is that al-Qaeda does not care what takes its place as long as they still get left alone. While the Neo-cons want to see a new government, reflecting their values and rid of liberal influences, emerge.

bob2356 says

Good luck hiring a lawyer without any money.

God Bless America. Where "justice" is sold on the open market to the highest bidder.

Why do we still think America is the best country on earth again?

America used to be the best country on earth for several simple reasons: the constitution, the bill or rights, freedom, and the opportunity to go as far as you ability would take you.

"But its not fair" that some should be able to earn more than others, whined the liberals who went about "fundamentally changing America" ...for the worst.

I'm like the doctor who discovered cancer and am trying to disclose "bad news" to the patient and his family. They don't want to hear it. Liberals don't want to hear the ugly truth about how America is being systematically destroyed, because they are the architects of it. They want America to be fundamentally changed so everyone can be "equally" poor and miserable. And by gosh it looks like they are succeeding to the detriment of the country and its citizens. Good job Commies.

Honest Abe says

"But its not fair" that some should be able to earn more than others, whined the liberals who went about "fundamentally changing America" ...for the worst.

Please post a reference to anyone on this board who has said that it is unfair for people to "earn more money than others". Or how about a reference to any elected Democrat who has said it.

Honest Abe says

I'm like the doctor who discovered cancer and am trying to disclose "bad news" to the patient and his family. They don't want to hear it.

Hmmm... perhaps.... maybe if that doctor had no medical training outside of a witchdoctor's hut and just made shit up as he went along.

Oh, wait... my bad it is not so much that you make shit up, but just repeat the shit made up by others.

Honest Abe says

America used to be the best country on earth for several simple reasons: the constitution, the bill or rights, freedom, and the opportunity to go as far as you ability would take you.

Right and the best way to get back to this America you seek is to first destroy the government then to identify liberals then imprison, re-educate, torture, expel and/or execute them. That has always been a good first start to a free and just society based on the rule of law.

Leo, I don't agree with your idea's or proposal to "first destroy the government, then identify liberals, imprison, re-educate, torture, expel and or execute them". I think your comments are dangerous, you out of touch with reality and I don't support or endorse your ideas in any way, shape or form.

Your comments are probably on some FBI list, where they belong.

Honest Abe says

Leo, I don't agree with your idea's or proposal to "first destroy the government, then identify liberals, imprison, re-educate, torture, expel and or execute them".

Oh, really so you disagree with Grover Norquist and the republican "starve the beast" strategy?

Honest Abe says

I don't support or endorse your ideas in any way, shape or form.

Except of course in quotes where you say you will imprison forever and torture other human-beings with whom you have a political disagreement with.

Oh, and they are not my ideas I was just taking your comments to their logical conclusion, but then again logic is not your strong suite.

Honest Abe says

I'd deport the clintons, nazi pelosi, dirty harry reid, barney frank, barbara boxer, jerry brown, rhom emanual, and the village idiot himself Joe Biden.

Honest Abe says

Perhaps you're right, they shouldn't be deported, rather they should be imprisoned indefinitely and waterboarded multiple times every day.

Are you saying that once you started imprisoning and torturing specific liberals you are not going to then continue on to others that think like them? You are going to keep them "imprisoned indefinitely" on the states dime? Based on your rantings I think that re-education and executions would be your next steps.

Honest Abe says

I think your comments are dangerous, you out of touch with reality and I don't support or endorse your ideas in any way, shape or form.

I could not agree more.

I think Honest Abe is just trolling. The "Ignore" function is a beautiful thing.

wthrfrk80 says

I think Honest Abe is just trolling. The "Ignore" function is a beautiful thing.

Yeah, I guess that should have been clear to me when Abe was contradicting his/her own comments.

[...]

curious2 says

Letterman's Top 10 list tonight was, "Top 10 least inspiring one-word campaign slogans." The contenders included:
UP
DOWN
SIDEWAYS
NEUTRAL
BACKWARD
FUTILE

leoj707 says

I a curious what you think of the Ryan budget? Do you really think that it is a better option than 4 more years of Obama?

I don't know what to think of it. I like many parts of it, I don't others. I like the elimination of Fannie and Freddie which is probably a lure for us conservatives. But I don't like turning medicare into a voucher.

To me it's like the healthcare reform. I think some parts of it are good and should be done independently. As a whole package I don't like it.

FortWayne says

To me it's like the healthcare reform. I think some parts of it are good and should be done independently. As a whole package I don't like it.

Yeah, I feel the same way about the healthcare reform.

[...]

Didn't we already have "socialized medicine" before ObamaCare? It was called Medicare and Medicaid, right?

I guess politics is all about word games. Maybe the "medicare for all" slogan would have worked better than "single-payer."

For some reason, in the minds of Americans:

Medicare = Not Socialism = Not Evil
Single Payer = Socialism = Evil

I figure if Grandma is ok with her Medicare, it should work for younger people that don't need constant medical attention.

wthrfrk80 says

It was called Medicare and Medicaid, right?

And don't forget Tricare.
http://www.tricare.mil/

leoj707 says

And don't forget Tricare.

And combat medics.

[...]

curious2 says

Politically, the provider lobbies try to get as much revenue as possible from as many sources as possible, which means over-medicating the Medicaid population while leaving the general population un-vaccinated and afraid that a single illness or injury might end in bankruptcy.

Gee, that's a great thought. In the real world less than half of doctors take medicaid patients at all. Many of the ones that do usually consider it a public service since many medicaid reimbursements are less than the cost of providing the service. No provider in the country is lobbying for more medicaid.

But don't let facts interfere with a good rant.

[...]

You links have no relation to your post at all. WTF?? An article that says medicaid kids get more drugs for mental health problems because counseling is hard to get means the Medicaid is provider lobby driven?? An ad from a law firm saying they represent consumers and providers? What does Pharma supporting obamacare have to do medicaid?

Medicaid is 10k per person for the poor and indigent who frequently don't take care of their health, not to mention frequently have tons of problems from things like nutrition, living conditions, booze and drugs. So What? Have you checked the cost of private health insurance lately? I would say 10k is a pretty good price for providing health care to this population.

Have you been sampling the pharma products or are we just posting while wearing a tin foil hat today? Want to actually provide some proof for the statement that Medicaid is provider lobby driven.

Simple question. If doctors are so anxious for Medicaid than why do so few accept it?